Ben Johnson is a Disaster

GopherWeatherGuy

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I’m not as confident in Niko as others. His stops have been too short and evidence of sustaining a program isn’t there. Smith should be pursued. Not sure if his ego says no because of previous screw up.

I'm with you on Niko. They could have had Smith, but he's not leaving Utah for MN now. I love his offensive and defensive systems but he still has to prove he can recruit at the P6 level.
 

skiumah1

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I'm with you on Niko. They could have had Smith, but he's not leaving Utah for MN now. I love his offensive and defensive systems but he still has to prove he can recruit at the P6 level.

I’m not as confident in Niko as others. His stops have been too short and evidence of sustaining a program isn’t there. Smith should be pursued. Not sure if his ego says no because of previous screw up.
Agreed. Niko wouldn't be a terrible hire, but we can do better.
 



Gopher Teeth

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I'd like to hear from one of these CBJ backers that says be patient we have freshman who will be here 4 years. What say you?

I didn't think he would get fired but I mean at this point if 1-2 more leave we have to for him right??
They won't say anything, because they were delusional then and remain that way. We watched multiple cellar programs be turned around in one to two years, but they refused to acknowledge that it can be done. Their model for success was one from the 90's, and that made sense to them and couldn't be convinced otherwise; it's hilarious.
 


Otis

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We need all you guys to buy lottery tickets!

One of us needs to win and start. NIL organization with the proceeds.
 


Gopher_In_NYC

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It's a PR thing. You can't make the decision "too quickly" but at this point, I think we are counting days until Weakling Wednesday is over at the Target Center next year. Like Lindsay, Ben could be let go on a Thursday after a weakling Wednesday loss at the Target Center.

366 days
Edit, 2024 is a leap year. make that 367 days.
Good post.

You also don’t and to do it after 2 years because that would incense the local bucket community - Ben us well regarded and 2025 has a bumper crop. If it’s thee years at the bottom, that is understandable.
And yes, optics matter - chess not checkers and that’s how a pro AD operates IMO.

Coyle gets that we can’t compete with NIL, as that goes against many MNs ethics and wallets. Our best opportunity is to build the core from within (MN players). Coyle also may have been directed to hire coaches specifically with MN connections and he can say, we tried it that way, let me do it in my way now - there are more stakeholders involved than just him, with the President and Regents as well. The histrionics on here of some, makes me think they’ve never managed people or hired/fired previously.

MN also has a different culture than other bottom line geographies, so Ben was going to get three years short of a massive personal or team scandal from the jump.

Any real fan would brace for a tough season and hope/wish for the best. Wishing ill for someone/their future is sophomoric at best IMO.
 

USAF

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Good post.

You also don’t and to do it after 2 years because that would incense the local bucket community - Ben us well regarded and 2025 has a bumper crop. If it’s thee years at the bottom, that is understandable.
And yes, optics matter - chess not checkers and that’s how a pro AD operates IMO.

Coyle gets that we can’t compete with NIL, as that goes against many MNs ethics and wallets. Our best opportunity is to build the core from within (MN players). Coyle also may have been directed to hire coaches specifically with MN connections and he can say, we tried it that way, let me do it in my way now - there are more stakeholders involved than just him, with the President and Regents as well. The histrionics on here of some, makes me think they’ve never managed people or hired/fired previously.

MN also has a different culture than other bottom line geographies, so Ben was going to get three years short of a massive personal or team scandal from the jump.

Any real fan would brace for a tough season and hope/wish for the best. Wishing ill for someone/their future is sophomoric at best IMO.
To summarize: Ben is a disaster, but we have to wait another year for the already ordained firing.
Fans should just "brace for (another) tough season."

Now that truly is "sophomoric."
 



howeda7

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Smith is 100% still gettable. The Pac12 has only gotten 3-4 teams in the NCAA's in most recent seasons including this one, and two of their 3 best basketball programs are leaving for the B1G. Their media rights deal will be dwarfed by the B1G going forward.

I saw a list of reasons why Cal is such a tough job and 75% of the items will apply to every other Pac12 school not named Oregon or Arizona going forward.
 

howeda7

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Has Holtmann been dismissed? I speculated he might be on the hot seat but assumed the run in the tournament cooled it down.
He hasn't. But he might be resentful enough of the talk to listen a la Tubby Smith 2007. He's probably in a "Sweet 16 at a minimum or you're fired" position next year and might not like that.
 


Bad Gopher

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Smith is 100% still gettable. The Pac12 has only gotten 3-4 teams in the NCAA's in most recent seasons including this one, and two of their 3 best basketball programs are leaving for the B1G. Their media rights deal will be dwarfed by the B1G going forward.

I saw a list of reasons why Cal is such a tough job and 75% of the items will apply to every other Pac12 school not named Oregon or Arizona going forward.
If so, the timing would be right if Johnson doesn't right the ship next year. Smith is an honorable man and wouldn't pull a Brenda on the University of Utah.
 



Holy Man

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If so, the timing would be right if Johnson doesn't right the ship next year. Smith is an honorable man and wouldn't pull a Brenda on the University of Utah.
I would hope he is honorable, but cash and opportunity too often eclipse honor in the coaching world. I’d take him in a New York minute.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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To summarize: Ben is a disaster, but we have to wait another year for the already ordained firing.
Fans should just "brace for (another) tough season."

Now that truly is "sophomoric."
it's called reading the tea leaves.

No one knows how next season will turn out.

Every person is responsible for their lives and how they react to situations, people are responsible for their own happiness or lack of it in my experience. If this is that big a deal, maybe this is an opportunity for your maturation?
 


Dano564

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To summarize: Ben is a disaster, but we have to wait another year for the already ordained firing.
Fans should just "brace for (another) tough season."

Now that truly is "sophomoric."
There's a chance Ben turns it around next year, but I'd say the chances are slim, and it also depends on your definition of "turn it around".

Despite whatever transfers he does or doesn't land, and despite the potential of all players healthy, I don't see how anyone who watches Big Ten basketball will say Minnesota will finish above 13th out of 14 next year.
Sure, maybe we click on some transfers, and people who haven't played are big contributors, and our freshman who become sophomores all take that step in the right direction, middle of the conference in the Big Ten 8-10th place COULD happen, but you need so many things to go right for that to be a reasonable expectation. Vegas odds on the Gophers finishing above 10th place would be extremely long. Just look at what else the Big Ten conference has this year and how they lead into next year better than what we can project.

A finish in the 10-12th spot in the Big Ten might be enough improvement to show progress and buy more time, but even that seems unlikely at this juncture knowing our luck with injuries.

As a fan I'll continue to hope for the best, but top half of the Big Ten just isn't a reasonable ask for 2023-2024 by any measure.
 



bga1

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There's a chance Ben turns it around next year, but I'd say the chances are slim, and it also depends on your definition of "turn it around".

Despite whatever transfers he does or doesn't land, and despite the potential of all players healthy, I don't see how anyone who watches Big Ten basketball will say Minnesota will finish above 13th out of 14 next year.
Sure, maybe we click on some transfers, and people who haven't played are big contributors, and our freshman who become sophomores all take that step in the right direction, middle of the conference in the Big Ten 8-10th place COULD happen, but you need so many things to go right for that to be a reasonable expectation. Vegas odds on the Gophers finishing above 10th place would be extremely long. Just look at what else the Big Ten conference has this year and how they lead into next year better than what we can project.

A finish in the 10-12th spot in the Big Ten might be enough improvement to show progress and buy more time, but even that seems unlikely at this juncture knowing our luck with injuries.

As a fan I'll continue to hope for the best, but top half of the Big Ten just isn't a reasonable ask for 2023-2024 by any measure.
My expectation after last year, once we got Garcia- was that we should be good enough for 6-7 or more wins this year- then an NCAA qualifier in 23-24. Now with the abysmal year and more departures- I think he has to get those 7 wins to keep the job. I think that there is enough there to do it with a couple of good guards and a banger back up guy.
 

Dano564

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My expectation after last year, once we got Garcia- was that we should be good enough for 6-7 or more wins this year- then an NCAA qualifier in 23-24. Now with the abysmal year and more departures- I think he has to get those 7 wins to keep the job. I think that there is enough there to do it with a couple of good guards and a banger back up guy.
If we get 6-7 Big Ten Wins, that's probably enough to earn year four with a young nucleus.
To get to 6-7 wins however, we'll need to see a couple key contributors develop who we haven't seen yet. That's where I have the doubts.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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If we get 6-7 Big Ten Wins, that's probably enough to earn year four with a young nucleus.
To get to 6-7 wins however, we'll need to see a couple key contributors develop who we haven't seen yet. That's where I have the doubts.

So if Ben reaches the record Pitino was fired for in season 3, which would be his best record, that's enough to give him a year 4?

We might as well move to the Summit if that's the case.
 


Dano564

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So if Ben reaches the record Pitino was fired for in season 3, which would be his best record, that's enough to give him a year 4?

We might as well move to the Summit if that's the case.
I'm not advocating for it.

I don't think it should just come down to wins or losses.
If he has a young nucleus that improves during the year, and they beat some good teams down the line instead of a 10 point come from behind win against Rutgers, perhaps that paints the picture that the team is ready to take the next step. Especially if it's a team driven by it's youth.

If it's largely a team that depends on Dawson Garcia and he opts to leave after 2023-24 and the rest of the team is meh... then it's not good enough.
 

bga1

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I'm not advocating for it.

I don't think it should just come down to wins or losses.
If he has a young nucleus that improves during the year, and they beat some good teams down the line instead of a 10 point come from behind win against Rutgers, perhaps that paints the picture that the team is ready to take the next step. Especially if it's a team driven by it's youth.

If it's largely a team that depends on Dawson Garcia and he opts to leave after 2023-24 and the rest of the team is meh... then it's not good enough.
This is correct. If we are headed in the right direction we will be able to see it and it won't be a strict wins and losses evaluation. It will be a combination of how it looks on court, how committed the players are, the record and who he signs this fall (not that signings are sacred anymore- as we now know from Mr Evans). If all of those things are in order the fans will start to come around as well.
 





Dano564

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103 pages devoted to getting rid of a coach who isn’t going anywhere! LOL
I think we are 365 days away from a decision if I'm counting right and we lose weakling Wednesday 2024.

(And don't take this as me wanting him gone. I want him to be successful, but there are so few signs right now and I think I'm being realistic considering the financial pressures coming with USC / UCLA and new media deal).
 




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