Battle/Cooper/Garcia combine for 15 turnovers against Wisconsin

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CentralGopher said:
If I had the choice I would move on from Garcia before Battle. I’ve never seen a player regress as much as Battle. To be that highly rated out of HS and this many years later still turning/dribbling right into an obvious double team is incomprehensible.
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I don't know. I think he does fine. He just cannot be one of the guys you are counting on to hold the ball a ton or score a ton. Him as the 3rd 4th option would be just fine IMO.
 

Go Gophs said:
I don't know. I think he does fine. He just cannot be one of the guys you are counting on to hold the ball a ton or score a ton. Him as the 3rd 4th option would be just fine IMO.
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Gotta have a speedy PG that breaks the floor down for Battle and gets him shots. Barring that some sort of motion offense that reverses the ball. The amount of times that we get the wide open shots out of the offense that other teams get against us- is minimal.
 

CentralGopher said:
If I had the choice I would move on from Garcia before Battle. I’ve never seen a player regress as much as Battle. To be that highly rated out of HS and this many years later still turning/dribbling right into an obvious double team is incomprehensible.
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He's a catch and shoot sniper that is trying to manufacture a high volume of his own shots. It's a poor offensive scheme.
 

bga1 said:
He has recruited Payne and Fox. He has Evans coming in and Ihnen returning. All 4s and 5s. I'm not sure what Ola Joseph is at this point- a 3 or a 4 but since he has no range- he's really more of a small 4.
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What has Ihnen showed that makes you think he is going to play any minutes? Garcia has down significantly more than Ihnen and you dont think he'll be playing?
 

Gophs24 said:
so the gophers website lists Garcia as a Sophmore....and i listened to a podcast with Ryan James and they also stated he is only technically a sophmore with 3 years to play.....

If that is the case Dawson certainly will have a roll with this thing....and i do hope that is the case as he had a tough little stretch there but Dawson is our best player....and the idea of him playing next to true centers in Payne and Evans would be great for him and the gophers
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Unless Garcia has a desire to play in Belarus, he should stick with Gophers as long as possible to keep developing
 


bga1 said:
He has recruited Payne and Fox. He has Evans coming in and Ihnen returning. All 4s and 5s. I'm not sure what Ola Joseph is at this point- a 3 or a 4 but since he has no range- he's really more of a small 4.
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im sorry...but are you somehow assuming that you would prefer Fox and or Ihnen over Garcia? Or even JOJ? Garcia is better than all of them. And it would be a blessing for this team if he stayed here 3 years
 

Gophers_4life said:
Honest question from a know-nothing in basketball:

if you as an Average Joe internet fan (no offense meant, I assume you are not a professional) can see this ..... then why was he rated so high as a recruit?
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Because as a high school player his pure talent was very alluring and hes 6"11. The guy does not suck at basketball let me make that clear.

He can shoot from distance(not as good this year currently). Has the ability to dribble and attack. Post moves and craftiness.

His biggest limitations are that even with the abilities hes not overtly quick, not strong and has no vertical athleticism. Now im not sure why the quickness/vertical issues werent more of a red flag in high school but the strength makes sense, can assume guys might bulk up with college resources. I think the natural talent outweighed potential flaws.

The issue is now in his 3rd season of college ball. Those weaknesses have not changed one bit. So myself and anyone else who watches him are noticing this now in the college game not when he was picking on minnesota high school basketball. A 6'3 guard can challenge his shot in the paint at will. On a good team he needs to be more of a complimentary player. And in a system thats not gonna get up and down too quickly.
 

Go Gophs said:
It's too bad, but IMO, what this team is really missing in a 2 or 3 player that can get to the basket and/or make open shots.
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I believe as the season goes on, Carrington and Henley will become those players. Right now, those two have moments where they show they can take it to the basket (more so Henley) and make open shots (more so Carrington). What they need is more consistency from game to game. That is what I am looking for from those two as the season progresses.
 

Also, I will say some of the Battle flack is due to peoples misguided perceptions of him.

This guy has never been some elite shooter. Hes the type of shooter who is really, really good when the shot is created for him. Catch and Shoot. Anything other than that and its quite a bad shot for him.

So with a lack of good options around him this year hes taking even more of the "bad" variety. Now shot selection is on him of course

But the guy isnt a some marksman.

He shoots a worse percentage than guards like Marcus Carr or Markus Howard or Carsen Edwards who are constantly bombing away off the dribble and step backs getting their own shot.

Battle can't be your best player to be a really good team. But if we get more help around him, he can be a really good player still and much more efficient than what we currently se.
 



MUgopher32 said:
Also, I will say some of the Battle flack is due to peoples misguided perceptions of him.

This guy has never been some elite shooter. Hes the type of shooter who is really, really good when the shot is created for him. Catch and Shoot. Anything other than that and its quite a bad shot for him.

So with a lack of good options around him this year hes taking even more of the "bad" variety. Now shot selection is on him of course

But the guy isnt a some marksman.

He shoots a worse percentage than guards like Marcus Carr or Markus Howard or Carsen Edwards who are constantly bombing away off the dribble and step backs getting their own shot.

Battle can't be your best player to be a really good team. But if we get more help around him, he can be a really good player still and much more efficient than what we currently se.
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Correct, he's not athletic and that is getting exposed a bit with different matchups for him in this line-up. Not a good look when your veterans are turning the ball over at this rate. That's not leadership.
 

MUgopher32 said:
Also, I will say some of the Battle flack is due to peoples misguided perceptions of him.

This guy has never been some elite shooter. Hes the type of shooter who is really, really good when the shot is created for him. Catch and Shoot. Anything other than that and its quite a bad shot for him.

So with a lack of good options around him this year hes taking even more of the "bad" variety. Now shot selection is on him of course

But the guy isnt a some marksman.

He shoots a worse percentage than guards like Marcus Carr or Markus Howard or Carsen Edwards who are constantly bombing away off the dribble and step backs getting their own shot.

Battle can't be your best player to be a really good team. But if we get more help around him, he can be a really good player still and much more efficient than what we currently se.
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It has to do more maybe with his perception of himself. He doesn't need to do everything for this team to win. He needs to play within the flow of the game. If he does that, we win last night.

Also, I can kind of agree with you, but he is a SCORER. He just has to let the game come to him more IMO.
 

Gophs24 said:
im sorry...but are you somehow assuming that you would prefer Fox and or Ihnen over Garcia? Or even JOJ? Garcia is better than all of them. And it would be a blessing for this team if he stayed here 3 years
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I didn't say better, I said better fit or at least meant that. With the right players and system around him and if we were in the running for competing for something- yes, I'd go with him over the others mentioned. If we are building something- I just don't see him in the equation after this year.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
What has Ihnen showed that makes you think he is going to play any minutes? Garcia has down significantly more than Ihnen and you dont think he'll be playing?
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Maybe Ihnen won't play either. I have no idea on that one. Ben had him listed at the 2 (???)- so I just don't know what the deal on Ihnen is other than he has a wingspan, really good athleticism and can go get the ball in space. When last we saw Ihnen 2 years ago he had no inclination to drive to the hoop but he had an acceptable outside shot. He's a good passer. Has he added the dribble drive to his game? More muscle? I'm not sure.

If we are building with Evans and Payne and Ola Joseph long term- then I want to see them all on the court a ton. Ben wanted to build with grit as the identity. I don't see grit as part of the Garcia makeup. He has ability and some skills- for sure. There might be a game where he puts us on his back this year and we win it. Not sure.
 



MaxyJR1 said:
Correct, he's not athletic and that is getting exposed a bit with different matchups for him in this line-up. Not a good look when your veterans are turning the ball over at this rate. That's not leadership.
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He did corral some rebounds last night.
 

Gold Vision said:
I don’t think you can lump Garcia’s performance in with Battle’s last night. Garcia had a pretty decent game and generated a lot of his own decent looks. 3 TOs to Battle’s 6 and he made it to the line 5 times. He was a couple of missed bunnies from a really good game.

Battle was a train wreck. An absolute black hole for the most of the game. Jacking up contested mid range shots over and over and turning it over at a ridiculous clip. He really misses Payton Willis and Luke Loewe to give him some decent space to work with.
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Very concerning that a 6'7 forward can't get to the basket and is having issues with a 6'3 guard guarding him the whole game
 



UpAndUnder43 said:
What has Ihnen showed that makes you think he is going to play any minutes? Garcia has down significantly more than Ihnen and you dont think he'll be playing?
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Coach Jonhnson said Ihnen could play guard. IIRC, he was going to be starting in that position prior to injury.
 

MUgopher32 said:
Couple things

1. Dawson is absolutely not doing 6 years of college basketball. I dont think even his own family thinks he was the pro prospect he once was. But the dude aint hanging around for 3 more years of college. Hes gonna try a pro career somewhere by the end of next year at the latest. Also pretty sure he only has 2 years after this.

2. Two teams have already gotten immediately better the moment he moved on. He is not the type of player you build around. And is basically the same player as two years ago. Can stroke it decently from deep for a big man. Has some moves. No strength or ability to get off the floor. Weak with the ball and can get blocked by small guards.

Hes very necessary this year. Could help next year still as the young guys get acclimated. But anything beyond that I think even Ben urges him to move on.

If Dawson is here two seasons from now I will bet 100k that at least 1 of Payne and Evans are not. Those dudes aint splitting time at the 5 for two straight seasons.
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Clueless projection on your part.
 



This team will not run an offense. Pass once shoot anything more turnover. Hard to watch.
 

bga1 said:
Maybe Ihnen won't play either. I have no idea on that one. Ben had him listed at the 2 (???)- so I just don't know what the deal on Ihnen is other than he has a wingspan, really good athleticism and can go get the ball in space. When last we saw Ihnen 2 years ago he had no inclination to drive to the hoop but he had an acceptable outside shot. He's a good passer. Has he added the dribble drive to his game? More muscle? I'm not sure.

If we are building with Evans and Payne and Ola Joseph long term- then I want to see them all on the court a ton. Ben wanted to build with grit as the identity. I don't see grit as part of the Garcia makeup. He has ability and some skills- for sure. There might be a game where he puts us on his back this year and we win it. Not sure.
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If we are building we Payne Evans JOJ...that is a lot of non-shooting...we better get some absolute snipers to space the floor....because we all know Payne only shoots from within 3 feet of the rim (or dunks) and JoJ really only shoots floaters / dunks as well. That is a really clogged lane.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
They also combined for 53 of our 60 points (88%), 20 of our 40 rebounds (50%), and 3 of our 7 assists.

On offense, they were the only guys doing anything.

Some wings would help them out.
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You can score and not turn over the ball the way they were. All three of them way too lazy with the ball. Also, all kinds of dumb shots from Battle and Garcia primarily. This team, led by the three of them, has way too many empty or wasted possessions where we don't even get a shot, or at least a decent shot. Way fewer opportunities than our opponents because of turnovers and terrible shot selection.
 

kg21 said:
Can Payne and Evans make him somewhat irrelevant? That's my hope.

I'm not looking for Garcia to be a key cog in pulling us up from the depths we are in.
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Agreed. I have not been impressed with Garcia at all. He plays small, is not very strong, and does not shoot the ball well. The ball also stops when he touches it, as it does with Battle.
 

The good news from last night was defense and rebounding were each much improved. Wisconsin is not real good offensively, but they did turn the ball over more than typical. Our defense has to get some credit for that.

It's been the defense and rebounding that has been most concerning, so good to see that improve. Offensively, if they didn't waste so many possessions last night with turnovers, they probably win the game. Hopefully we can start to see some progress with that.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
They also combined for 53 of our 60 points (88%), 20 of our 40 rebounds (50%), and 3 of our 7 assists.

On offense, they were the only guys doing anything.

Some wings would help them out.
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They (Battle, Garcia, Cooper) were also 17-43 shooting. 40%.

Our 3 freshmen were 7-11. 64%.

Yes, to win immediately our 3 transfers give us the best chance. But i hope we transition to the future more as the season goes on.
 

MNJay said:
They (Battle, Garcia, Cooper) were also 17-43 shooting. 40%.

Our 3 freshmen were 7-11. 64%.

Yes, to win immediately our 3 transfers give us the best chance. But i hope we transition to the future more as the season goes on.
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Do you think it's better for Henley and Carrington's development to become the focal points of an offense?
 


MennoSota said:
Quite competent actually. What I said was actually true.
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No its not. He has factually had two teams get better without him. One of them literally by the next week.

And he has not developed as a player. His limitations are still the same and his numbers have stayed consistent.

Again, you in providing no input whatsover. Actually proved to be the incompetent one. Amazing really.
 

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