Battle/Cooper/Garcia combine for 15 turnovers against Wisconsin

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Bob, I was busy so I couldn't see the game. I saw some stats. 20 turnovers and yet the kids only lost by 3 points and had an opportunity to try tie it up.
I have said, low turnovers and strong rebounding will get these kids a win. Cut those turnovers down and the kids win.
Progress is what I am looking for. I dvr'd the game so I will watch it tomorrow to see how the kids are progressing.
 

Battle and Garcia had 0 assist and 9 TOs while stalling the offense and taking horrid shots.

I loved the fight in the team tonight. Best effort all year. But when people talk about this program getting better in year 3 and down the line.

Garcia and Battle cannot be your two best players. Tournament teams dont start to clogs on offense neither of whom shoots all that well. And also by virtue of playing together have to play out of position. Because having them as your 4/5 would be slowest and softest D in the country
 

MennoSota said:
Bob, I was busy so I couldn't see the game. I saw some stats. 20 turnovers and yet the kids only lost by 3 points and had an opportunity to try tie it up.
I have said, low turnovers and strong rebounding will get these kids a win. Cut those turnovers down and the kids win.
Progress is what I am looking for. I dvr'd the game so I will watch it tomorrow to see how the kids are progressing.
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It was a fun game. They played really hard and despite the turnovers, I thought they played smarter at times.

I wish I could see this team play with competent wings - like Loewe or Stephens from last year.

But it was a fun game as encouraging as they've had in weeks.
 



MUgopher32 said:
Battle and Garcia had 0 assist and 9 TOs while stalling the offense and taking horrid shots.

I loved the fight in the team tonight. Best effort all year. But when people talk about this program getting better in year 3 and down the line.

Garcia and Battle cannot be your two best players. Tournament teams dont start to clogs on offense neither of whom shoots all that well. And also by virtue of playing together have to play out of position. Because having them as your 4/5 would be slowest and softest D in the country
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You’re right, on a good team they can’t be your best players but they were clearly our best players (with cooper tonight).

Without them we get absolutely smashed tonight.

As far as soft, I think Garcia has really started to battle.

Again, I’m not saying they are great just two of the only productive players we have.
 

there is ZERO threat of anyone taking over and driving to the basket. nobody on this roster has shown that capability. While Cooper seems to be OK point guard, hes not explosive. Garcia and Battle, nope. Pretty hard to play with ZERO threat of driving. I;d love to play defense against that offense.
 

MennoSota said:
Bob, I was busy so I couldn't see the game. I saw some stats. 20 turnovers and yet the kids only lost by 3 points and had an opportunity to try tie it up.
I have said, low turnovers and strong rebounding will get these kids a win. Cut those turnovers down and the kids win.
Progress is what I am looking for. I dvr'd the game so I will watch it tomorrow to see how the kids are progressing.
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Defensive effort was much improved, but imo this Badger team is incredibly lacking offensive weapons. Their only real weapon is Chucky, and his main threat is wide-open treys (he passed up many). *I do like their freshman guard, he played very well* If we played like this against a real team with offensive weapons (all the turnovers I’m referencing), a team with weapons will score 80 points+ and it will get ugly in a hurry.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
You’re right, on a good team they can’t be your best players but they were clearly our best players (with cooper tonight).

Without them we get absolutely smashed tonight.

As far as soft, I think Garcia has really started to battle.

Again, I’m not saying they are great just two of the only productive players we have.
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cant say it very often....but those two were both our best players last night and our worst players
 

Battle and Garcia are actually pretty irrelevant to the gophers getting back on their feet.

The freshman and next year's recruits are the key.

I'm watching more for hope of the future right now. Garcia and Dawson will not be part of it. I really don't get that pissed at them as they are what they are.

I'm kind of just watching.

In much the same way they played AK at qb, I'd like them to play the freshman as much as is possible.
 

kg21 said:
Battle and Garcia are actually pretty irrelevant to the gophers getting back on their feet.

The freshman and next year's recruits are the key.

I'm watching more for hope of the future right now. Garcia and Dawson will not be part of it. I really don't get that pissed at them as they are what they are.

I'm kind of just watching.

In much the same way they played AK at qb, I'd like them to play the freshman as much as is possible.
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so the gophers website lists Garcia as a Sophmore....and i listened to a podcast with Ryan James and they also stated he is only technically a sophmore with 3 years to play.....

If that is the case Dawson certainly will have a roll with this thing....and i do hope that is the case as he had a tough little stretch there but Dawson is our best player....and the idea of him playing next to true centers in Payne and Evans would be great for him and the gophers
 

Gophs24 said:
so the gophers website lists Garcia as a Sophmore....and i listened to a podcast with Ryan James and they also stated he is only technically a sophmore with 3 years to play.....

If that is the case Dawson certainly will have a roll with this thing....and i do hope that is the case as he had a tough little stretch there but Dawson is our best player....and the idea of him playing next to true centers in Payne and Evans would be great for him and the gophers
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Can Payne and Evans make him somewhat irrelevant? That's my hope.

I'm not looking for Garcia to be a key cog in pulling us up from the depths we are in.
 



kg21 said:
Can Payne and Evans make him somewhat irrelevant? That's my hope.

I'm not looking for Garcia to be a key cog in pulling us up from the depths we are in.
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If he stays here through the 2024/25 season he will be a key cog for us
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
They also combined for 53 of our 60 points (88%), 20 of our 40 rebounds (50%), and 3 of our 7 assists.

On offense, they were the only guys doing anything.

Some wings would help them out.
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Battle, in a well run offense, which this is decidedly not, would be a great 2nd or 3rd option player shooting 10 open shots per game. As a make your own shot guy- putting up 15-17 shots, he's going to have a lot of bad nights. Yeah we would be even worse without him right now, but that is just because we are so bad. His efficiency last night was horrid and he kills any offensive flow because he is dribbling around trying to find a shot for himself.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
They also combined for 53 of our 60 points (88%), 20 of our 40 rebounds (50%), and 3 of our 7 assists.

On offense, they were the only guys doing anything.

Some wings would help them out.
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The TV guys had good things to say about Payne. I realize he is just a true fresh.
 

Gophs24 said:
If he stays here through the 2024/25 season he will be a key cog for us
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I'm not sure he stays that long. If he does, Blah!

He just seems soft. Again, Blah!
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
They also combined for 53 of our 60 points (88%), 20 of our 40 rebounds (50%), and 3 of our 7 assists.

On offense, they were the only guys doing anything.

Some wings would help them out.
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They actually had 43 of our 60 points (72%) while shooting 43 of our 55 shots (78%) and making 15 turnovers (75%) - so they were high volume at everything. 7 assists! Sweet!
 

I don’t think you can lump Garcia’s performance in with Battle’s last night. Garcia had a pretty decent game and generated a lot of his own decent looks. 3 TOs to Battle’s 6 and he made it to the line 5 times. He was a couple of missed bunnies from a really good game.

Battle was a train wreck. An absolute black hole for the most of the game. Jacking up contested mid range shots over and over and turning it over at a ridiculous clip. He really misses Payton Willis and Luke Loewe to give him some decent space to work with.
 

kg21 said:
I'm not sure he stays that long. If he does, Blah!

He just seems soft. Again, Blah!
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For me, as I look at next year's roster, I'd rather move on with Evans and Payne and the other young kids. Teach Battle not to hog the ball and run some offense to get him open looks- where he could be amazing. Sounds like Fox is a junkyard dog, which the team needs and who knows on Ihnen but that's just a load of 4s and 5s. The team identity will need to be defensive toughness long term here.
We need to get back to the identity Clem was starting to build 25 years ago. You played that team and you were going to get beat up a little. Payne and Fox fit that mold and so might Evans. I like the toughness of Carrington and Henley showed some signs as well last night of getting that element.
 

bga1 said:
For me, as I look at next year's roster, I'd rather move on with Evans and Payne and the other young kids. Teach Battle not to hog the ball and run some offense to get him open looks- where he could be amazing. Sounds like Fox is a junkyard dog, which the team needs and who knows on Ihnen but that's just a load of 4s and 5s. The team identity will need to be defensive toughness long term here.
We need to get back to the identity Clem was starting to build 25 years ago. You played that team and you were going to get beat up a little. Payne and Fox fit that mold and so might Evans. I like the toughness of Carrington and Henley showed some signs as well last night of getting that element.
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Stop saying Fox fits that mold, we literally have no evidence. There is an ocean of difference between the NSIC (D2) and B10. He will be going against guys who have upwards of 40+ lbs on him, doubt he ever ran into that on the NSIC.
 

Loblaw...
Look at the picture...Loewe was playing last night... :D:D
 

Gophs24 said:
so the gophers website lists Garcia as a Sophmore....and i listened to a podcast with Ryan James and they also stated he is only technically a sophmore with 3 years to play.....

If that is the case Dawson certainly will have a roll with this thing....and i do hope that is the case as he had a tough little stretch there but Dawson is our best player....and the idea of him playing next to true centers in Payne and Evans would be great for him and the gophers
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Couple things

1. Dawson is absolutely not doing 6 years of college basketball. I dont think even his own family thinks he was the pro prospect he once was. But the dude aint hanging around for 3 more years of college. Hes gonna try a pro career somewhere by the end of next year at the latest. Also pretty sure he only has 2 years after this.

2. Two teams have already gotten immediately better the moment he moved on. He is not the type of player you build around. And is basically the same player as two years ago. Can stroke it decently from deep for a big man. Has some moves. No strength or ability to get off the floor. Weak with the ball and can get blocked by small guards.

Hes very necessary this year. Could help next year still as the young guys get acclimated. But anything beyond that I think even Ben urges him to move on.

If Dawson is here two seasons from now I will bet 100k that at least 1 of Payne and Evans are not. Those dudes aint splitting time at the 5 for two straight seasons.
 


Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Stop saying Fox fits that mold, we literally have no evidence. There is an ocean of difference between the NSIC (D2) and B10. He will be going against guys who have upwards of 40+ lbs on him, doubt he ever ran into that on the NSIC.
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We are all guessing here..... My guess, is that Fox fits that mold.
 

Gophs24 said:
what is ben recruiting?
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He has recruited Payne and Fox. He has Evans coming in and Ihnen returning. All 4s and 5s. I'm not sure what Ola Joseph is at this point- a 3 or a 4 but since he has no range- he's really more of a small 4.
 

MUgopher32 said:
And is basically the same player as two years ago. Can stroke it decently from deep for a big man. Has some moves. No strength or ability to get off the floor. Weak with the ball and can get blocked by small guards.
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Honest question from a know-nothing in basketball:

if you as an Average Joe internet fan (no offense meant, I assume you are not a professional) can see this ..... then why was he rated so high as a recruit?
 

Gold Vision said:
I don’t think you can lump Garcia’s performance in with Battle’s last night. Garcia had a pretty decent game and generated a lot of his own decent looks. 3 TOs to Battle’s 6 and he made it to the line 5 times. He was a couple of missed bunnies from a really good game.

Battle was a train wreck. An absolute black hole for the most of the game. Jacking up contested mid range shots over and over and turning it over at a ridiculous clip. He really misses Payton Willis and Luke Loewe to give him some decent space to work with.
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If I had the choice I would move on from Garcia before Battle. I’ve never seen a player regress as much as Battle. To be that highly rated out of HS and this many years later still turning/dribbling right into an obvious double team is incomprehensible.
 

Flat out Battle can't play that way. We will not win at all if he continues to jack contested shots and turn the ball over all the time. He is too good to play that way. If he just lets the game come to him, we win that game going away yesterday.

It's too bad, but IMO, what this team is really missing in a 2 or 3 player that can get to the basket and/or make open shots.
 

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