Battle and Cooper leaning towards moving on from Gophers after the season

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howeda7 said:
This is one of the 5 worst teams in the the Power 6 and their 2nd best player is leaving a year early along with another of their top 4. It can't get any darker. Sure an exodus would suck, but it's not guaranteed to happen, and what's the difference if it's now or a year from now?
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Their second best player was not very good this year by any measure.
 

bga1 said:
Their second best player was not very good this year by any measure.
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Yeah, Battle was very good last year, he really struggled this year.

Whether that was due to the foot injury, the offense, some combo of both who knows. But his shooting percentages dropped across the board to the worst shooting numbers in his entire career.
 

howeda7 said:
If the fans here are any indication the patience has worn out with many of the long-timers. And no one is coming to replace them.

Cheap is relative. Ben makes ~$2 million per year. Coaches like Smith, Dutcher or DeVries aren't going to cost more than $3 million/year. Musselman is the only one that would really break the bank.
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Certainly all of those would be better than the coach we have now and $3 million would be enough (assuming the U would be willing to pay that). Of all of them, I would prefer DeVries the most. No one else has put together a streak from Drake like this since Maury John whose team in the late 1960s lost to the Abdul-Jabbar lead UCLA by 3 in the national semifinals and beat UNC in the third place game.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Yeah, Battle was very good last year, he really struggled this year.

Whether that was due to the foot injury, the offense, some combo of both who knows. But his shooting percentages dropped across the board to the worst shooting numbers in his entire career.
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It doesn't much matter why to me, it just seems that he was part of the problem as much as anyone- when one looks at the statistics. I just don't think we are losing much as long as others develop in the offseason and Ben lands some guards who can shoot it. Sometimes you just have component parts that don't work together and that is what we had this year-IMO.

BTW- last year he was much better score 1.2 points per shot taken. Not star material but better. He also had twice the number of rebounds. I think it has been said often here- he's better as a small 4 man than a big slow 3. That showed this year.
 




bga1 said:
It doesn't much matter why to me, it just seems that he was part of the problem as much as anyone- when one looks at the statistics. I just don't think we are losing much as long as others develop in the offseason and Ben lands some guards who can shoot it. Sometimes you just have component parts that don't work together and that is what we had this year-IMO.

BTW- last year he was much better score 1.2 points per shot taken. Not star material but better. He also had twice the number of rebounds. I think it has been said often here- he's better as a small 4 man than a big slow 3. That showed this year.
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Yeah, last year we had no size so Battle was able to play that 4 spot. If Battle is done I will be sorry to see him go but he doesn't fit well in a scheme that also wants to have Garcia and Payne on the court as well.

With those two on the court we need more speed from the wings and speed is not part of Battle's game.
 

bga1 said:
Their second best player was not very good this year by any measure.
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Ryan James posted this it aligns to the fact what others having been saying. Something aside from injury was going on with Battle.

He is leaving for reasons that all have to do with not wanting to be in college any more. Does not want to be in class, does not want to do homework towards another degree, does not want to play college basketball, and this year was also hard on him for a lot of different reasons (some of that is not basketball related). He wants to go to the G-League which pays well and has a ton of spots these days, or go overseas. It is the next path he wants to take.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Yeah, last year we had no size so Battle was able to play that 4 spot. If Battle is done I will be sorry to see him go but he doesn't fit well in a scheme that also wants to have Garcia and Payne on the court as well.

With those two on the court we need more speed from the wings and speed is not part of Battle's game.
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And more shooters.
 



Ghos345 said:
Ryan James posted this it aligns to the fact what others having been saying. Something aside from injury was going on with Battle.

He is leaving for reasons that all have to do with not wanting to be in college any more. Does not want to be in class, does not want to do homework towards another degree, does not want to play college basketball, and this year was also hard on him for a lot of different reasons (some of that is not basketball related). He wants to go to the G-League which pays well and has a ton of spots these days, or go overseas. It is the next path he wants to take.
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Hope he succeeds, but I feel CBJ really failed him. He has major weaknesses for the next level and we did nothing to develop those skills this year, and played him at a position which actually highlighted those deficiencies
 

Ghos345 said:
Ryan James posted this it aligns to the fact what others having been saying. Something aside from injury was going on with Battle.

He is leaving for reasons that all have to do with not wanting to be in college any more. Does not want to be in class, does not want to do homework towards another degree, does not want to play college basketball, and this year was also hard on him for a lot of different reasons (some of that is not basketball related). He wants to go to the G-League which pays well and has a ton of spots these days, or go overseas. It is the next path he wants to take.
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Not surprising at all. He's a smart kid, has his degree, and really doesn't owe anyone anything. If there are personal struggles, I hope he resolves them, but he has handled himself with class and dignity and honor. Good for him if he moves on and gets paid a little money before he enters professional life of his choosing after that.
 

Holy Man said:
Not surprising at all. He's a smart kid, has his degree, and really doesn't owe anyone anything. If there are personal struggles, I hope he resolves them, but he has handled himself with class and dignity and honor. Good for him if he moves on and gets paid a little money before he enters professional life of his choosing after that.
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In a few years, this sort of thing won't be an issue anymore as players will no longer have a 5th year of eligibility.
 

bmb5270 said:
I agree Battle shot poorly this year but if you think he was lazy on defense you have less basketball IQ than my 9 month old grandson. Battle works his tail off on defense but often he is at a quickness disadvantage. That doesn’t mean he is lazy.
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He is lazy on defense. He loses his man when he is off the ball, he does not contest shots well, he doesn’t force his man to help or to their weak hand, he doesn’t block out consistently… When he does work hard, and that is usually only on the ball, he can do alright if he plays smart and that is very inconsistent.
 



bga1 said:
Ihnen of two years ago had length and hops. For the better part of that year Pitino had him floating the perimeter where he was not good. Later in the year he had him defending bigger guys and Ihnen was a pain for them to play against. Go back and watch some of those games if you can find them and if you can stand it. He can defend. His stats from two years ago- he was our second leading shot blocker and 5th leader rebounder in just 14 minutes. What killed him was offensive inefficiency. Garcia can be a lot better than he is - he should be adding muscle and certainly there is some coaching failure there as well.

I agree with all of that. I don't think they are going to fire Ben and I think it would likely be a disaster at this point if they did after 2 years. He has not been a good coach this year, but I do think he connects with the guys and his young recruits all show promise and have improved.
Ben has to be that guy this summer- if he wants to do this, he needs to go get those guys. If Monson, who was not a very good recruiter, was able to go out and get Grier and Stamper and Pitino, also not an A recruiter was able to dig out a lil Dre, Robbins and other decent portal guys- there's no reason Ben can't do it.

Go pay 600-700k for the best recruiter assistant out there. Do what it takes.
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Wasn't CBJ hired because if his recruiting.
 

Ghos345 said:
Ryan James posted this it aligns to the fact what others having been saying. Something aside from injury was going on with Battle.

He is leaving for reasons that all have to do with not wanting to be in college any more. Does not want to be in class, does not want to do homework towards another degree, does not want to play college basketball, and this year was also hard on him for a lot of different reasons (some of that is not basketball related). He wants to go to the G-League which pays well and has a ton of spots these days, or go overseas. It is the next path he wants to take.
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Interesting. This meshes with the cryptic stuff Johnson said during the ceremony yesterday evening. He said (paraphrasing but trying to get this exact) that there was a lot of adversity that we (the fans) will never know about but that we'll maybe end up knowing something about.

I vividly remember a conversation I had with another longtime season ticket holder early in the season. He said that, to his eye, something seemed "off" with this team, particularly compared to last year, when they seemed more together and connected and knew what they were doing out there. I start to wonder what all has been wrong behind the scenes, individually and/or as a team.
 

howeda7 said:
If the fans here are any indication the patience has worn out with many of the long-timers. And no one is coming to replace them.

Cheap is relative. Ben makes ~$2 million per year. Coaches like Smith, Dutcher or DeVries aren't going to cost more than $3 million/year. Musselman is the only one that would really break the bank.
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Get Devries’ name out of your mouth! ;-) Ok I suppose if he leaves Drake he might as well come up here and bring Tucker with him.
 

Battle isn't a Big Ten player. Whether that's due to injury or ability, I don't know. However, he's not someone who should ever start on an upper tier Big Ten team. He's easily replaceable.

Cooper is a low-end starter or high-end backup on a good Big Ten team. He can run an offense, but he's slow and cannot shoot.

The Gophers won't miss them.
 

Gopherguy0723 said:
Battle isn't a Big Ten player. Whether that's due to injury or ability, I don't know. However, he's not someone who should ever start on an upper tier Big Ten team. He's easily replaceable.

Cooper is a low-end starter or high-end backup on a good Big Ten team. He can run an offense, but he's slow and cannot shoot.

The Gophers won't miss them.
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They'll miss them if their replacements aren't as good.
 




Gopherguy0723 said:
Battle isn't a Big Ten player. Whether that's due to injury or ability, I don't know. However, he's not someone who should ever start on an upper tier Big Ten team. He's easily replaceable.

Cooper is a low-end starter or high-end backup on a good Big Ten team. He can run an offense, but he's slow and cannot shoot.

The Gophers won't miss them.
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You've managed to be dead wrong on both players. Well done.
 

Battle has played 4 years of college hoops. If it wasn't for covid, his career would be over. He has a right to make his own decisions about his life and career.

having said that, I think he is replaceable. his #1 asset was shooting. I still think Carrington can pick up some of that slack. But it makes it even more important that Johnson land a good shooter in the portal.

on Cooper - what you gain from his offense, you lose from his defense.

IF both leave, it does not mean the program is doomed to get worse. Both are players with some upside and some downside. They are replaceable - IF the coaches can find quality players to replace them.

it's college sports - nobody stays forever. it's only because of covid that we have people playing for 5 years. in a few years, all of the covid players will have used up their extra eligibility and we go back to "5 years to play 4."
 


dbmn said:
Wasn't CBJ hired because if his recruiting.
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And at least two of the three assistants. An expensive recruiter isn't what the staff needs, it's someone with prior D-1 HC experience. But in either event, who will want to come aboard this severly leaking ship if they have other options? This applies to both assistant coaches and portal players. And it's why "give it another year" is pretty likely to fail.
 

howeda7 said:
And at least two of the three assistants. An expensive recruiter isn't what the staff needs, it's someone with prior D-1 HC experience. But in either event, who will want to come aboard this severly leaking ship if they have other options? This applies to both assistant coaches and portal players. And it's why "give it another year" is pretty likely to fail.
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Realistically...do you really think Coyle is going to axe him this year?
 

bga1 said:
Realistically...do you really think Coyle is going to axe him this year?
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No, probably not. But I also don't think it's a 0% chance. If we get to next Tuesday and it hasn't happened then it's decided absent some mass exodus of remaining players.
 

howeda7 said:
No, probably not. But I also don't think it's a 0% chance. If we get to next Tuesday and it hasn't happened then it's decided absent some max exodus of remaining players.
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If they wait for an exodus- then they are really screwed. They would have to do it immediately and go big otherwise it would be insane to do it in this portal/free agency world. Look if you have to wait until Tuesday then you shouldn't do it. There is only one way to do something like this- decisively and with a plan.
 

bga1 said:
If they wait for an exodus- then they are really screwed. They would have to do it immediately and go big otherwise it would be insane to do it in this portal/free agency world. Look if you have to wait until Tuesday then you shouldn't do it. There is only one way to do something like this- decisively and with a plan.
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I would expect a timeline similar to what is happening on the Women's side now.
 

howeda7 said:
I would expect a timeline similar to what is happening on the Women's side now.
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I expect no firing this year:

1. Coyle in his weak presser actually offered an excuse for not firing Ben- "He's in year 2- Lindsey was in year 5".............. while not saying anything to endorse what Ben is doing.
2. It was a diversity hire. I can't see Gabel letting him do it.
3. Now add #1 and #2 - it has all the vibe of Coyle not wanting to say the nice things he should have about Ben to support him- because it wasn't his call then and it's not his call now and he's ticked that he's stuck with it.
 

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