Barnes may have trimmed his list again as per Rivals

This post just goes to illustrate how lacking in perspective one can be.

Yet you don't refute anything I said. Compare the quotes of the departing players and their families and tell me how they are in any way similar. Coach Self has seen a lot of transfers and never once has a player or his family said that they wanted to stay but were forced out. If you can't see the difference, there is no helping you. The reason Kentucky fans have the reputation they have is because they bury their heads in the sand. Every Kentucky fan I've met in person seems reasonable but every one on the internet, every one, is a nut job.. You got in bed with a snake. Deal with the criticism and quit trying to change everyone's minds. You try to have it both ways by arguing that Cal/Kentucky isn't unethical and then when backed into a corner fall back on the argument that everyone else does the same things. Everyone else doesn't do the same things.

The only correct thing you've said in this thread is that Orton is a good kid.
 

Yet you don't refute anything I said. Compare the quotes of the departing players and their families and tell me how they are in any way similar. Coach Self has seen a lot of transfers and never once has a player or his family said that they wanted to stay but were forced out. If you can't see the difference, there is no helping you. The reason Kentucky fans have the reputation they have is because they bury their heads in the sand. Every Kentucky fan I've met in person seems reasonable but every one on the internet, every one, is a nut job.. You got in bed with a snake. Deal with the criticism and quit trying to change everyone's minds. You try to have it both ways by arguing that Cal/Kentucky isn't unethical and then when backed into a corner fall back on the argument that everyone else does the same things. Everyone else doesn't do the same things.

The only correct thing you've said in this thread is that Orton is a good kid.

The point is when you can't acknowledge your own house isn't in order you can't throw stones at your neighbors. Of course you'll give me reasons upon reasons on why the Larry Brown situation, the Roy Williams situation, the exodus of players who were recruited over, J.R. Giddens, Darnell Jackson's improper benefits, Darrell Arthur, the JaRon Rush recruitment are somehow different and that Self is a bastion of integrity while Calipari is a cuthroat snake who sucks the marrow from babies at night to enhance his strength...which may very well be true but when you dismiss these concerns out of hand and don't discuss them frankly and honestly you do not have the moral high ground.
 

Truth

"Calipari is a cuthroat snake who sucks the marrow from babies at night to enhance his strength..."

I had heard he was a slimey bum but I didnt know he was a marrow sucker! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Certainly ALL these slanderous things cant be true.
 

The point is when you can't acknowledge your own house isn't in order you can't throw stones at your neighbors. Of course you'll give me reasons upon reasons on why the Larry Brown situation, the Roy Williams situation, the exodus of players who were recruited over, J.R. Giddens, Darnell Jackson's improper benefits, Darrell Arthur, the JaRon Rush recruitment are somehow different and that Self is a bastion of integrity while Calipari is a cuthroat snake who sucks the marrow from babies at night to enhance his strength...which may very well be true but when you dismiss these concerns out of hand and don't discuss them frankly and honestly you do not have the moral high ground.

I'll bite. What Brown and Williams did were wrong and the school got punished for those situations. Likewise for Darnell Jackson. If you look at the details of the situations, none of them were really that immoral. If the reported details of the Brown situation are correct and that is all that happened, you can make the argument that the school got excessively hammered by the NCAA. Jackson may or may not have had a pre-existing relationship with the booster. All reports point to a pre-existing relationship. That situation occurred during both Roy's and Self's watch at KU. It would be very difficult to find either coach culpable in that situation. Regardless, he was suspended when the school SELF REPORTED the situation. Same thing for the Roy's transgressions. Lew Perkins reported it or it may never have been known. J.R. Giddens was dismissed from the team. KU was given the same information about Darrell Arthur's transcripts as the NCAA clearinghouse who cleared him to play. It would be a major reach to put that on Self. JaRon Rush was shady and came from a shady AAU program/coach who did not see eye to eye with Williams. Williams stopped recruiting him. One rumor is that he got upset when JaRon referred to him as "Roy."

The one connection you're trying to make that appears valid and relevant to Cal's actions is recruiting over guys. However, there is a big difference between recruiting over guys and pulling the scholly of an unwilling player in favor of a recruit. Kansas is a cutthroat place to play basketball. What Cal has done at Kentucky is disgraceful. There is also a major difference between NCAA infractions and a complete lack of morals. KU has acknowledged their infractions and have been justly punished for them. Cal may or may not be playing by the rules but there really is no argument to be made about his morals. The fact that you justify his actions shows your integrity. Keep burying your head in the sand.
 

"Your act is tired and old."

As is yours.

Just as Tubby walks on water with FOT, Kentucky (and Coach Cal) can do no wrong with you. All the symptoms of a classic enabler. Enjoy the rollercoaster ride.

I state facts. Tubby does NOT walk on water but he CAN swim and didn't DROWN at Kentucky.
 



I'll bite. What Brown and Williams did were wrong and the school got punished for those situations. Likewise for Darnell Jackson. If you look at the details of the situations, none of them were really that immoral.

And how is Calipari immoral by comparison?

if the reported details of the Brown situation are correct and that is all that happened, you can make the argument that the school got excessively hammered by the NCAA. Jackson may or may not have had a pre-existing relationship with the booster. All reports point to a pre-existing relationship. That situation occurred during both Roy's and Self's watch at KU. It would be very difficult to find either coach culpable in that situation.

So how is Calipari culpable in the Marcus Camby situation? Both were receiving improper benefits based upon pre existing relationships but somehow you seem to think the burden falls on Calipari but not on Roy or Self.

Regardless, he was suspended when the school SELF REPORTED the situation. Same thing for the Roy's transgressions. Lew Perkins reported it or it may never have been known.

Let's ignore the fact that none of it came out until AFTER Roy Williams had departed and that it had been going on for years. This wasn't a one year "mistake" as Roy deemed it.


J.R. Giddens was dismissed from the team.

Maybe Roy should have been a better judge of character or could it be that young people screw up from time to time..sometimes in pretty bad ways.





KU was given the same information about Darrell Arthur's transcripts as the NCAA clearinghouse who cleared him to play. It would be a major reach to put that on Self.

So Self's not responsible for the Clearinghouse's mistakes but Calipari is?


JaRon Rush was shady and came from a shady AAU program/coach who did not see eye to eye with Williams. Williams stopped recruiting him. One rumor is that he got upset when JaRon referred to him as "Roy."

That flies in the face of the facts (and it was no rumor. Roy Williams, after recruiting JaRon for 5 years, suddenly decided not to recruit him based on public comments Rush made on playing time AFTER he had given a verbal commitment to KU) as reported by Dan Wetzel is his outstanding book "Sole Influence" and confirmed by various other sources both within and outside of the Kansas Basketball Program.

This is really not a subject you do not want to challenge me on.



The one connection you're trying to make that appears valid and relevant to Cal's actions is recruiting over guys. However, there is a big difference between recruiting over guys and pulling the scholly of an unwilling player in favor of a recruit.

Only in the fantasy world you've created. I've read Matt Pilgrim's fathers comments and he understood what happened. I'm aware of what went on behind the scenes and what was said in public too. Adam Williams didn't want to leave UK either but Tubby Smith told him it was for the best and he needed his scholarship. Rick Pitino treated his roster like the waiver wire in his early years at UK.



Kansas is a cutthroat place to play basketball.

So is Kentucky, so is North Carolina..what's your point?

What Cal has done at Kentucky is disgraceful.

Trying to mold a roster that fits his style of play? A roster I might add that had serious flaws and numbers issues because of the two previous regimes mistakes. They didn't have room for the players already committed under Gillispie!



There is also a major difference between NCAA infractions and a complete lack of morals.

Again, please illustrate the differences for me.

KU has acknowledged their infractions and have been justly punished for them.

That's laughable.



Cal may or may not be playing by the rules but there really is no argument to be made about his morals.

What exactly is his immorality again?

The fact that you justify his actions shows your integrity. Keep burying your head in the sand.

My integrity is fine and as I've shown I think it is you who have a head in the sand.
 

First of all, stupid, you said I dismissed concerns that were never raised. I'm sorry I didn't address concerns that hadn't previously been brought up. For someone who calls someone else out for strawman arguments, you sure do a good job of changing the course of the discussion to support your warped views and avoid the issues already being discussed. You truly are an imbecile if you can't tell the difference between NCAA infractions and moral issues. I work with special ed children and their grasp of logic and rational discussion is far superior to what you display on a regular basis in this forum. Our whole debate started when you brought up Self as a way to defend your coach. Then, you were the one who brought up morals. Not once have you presented anything to show that Self is immoral. Calipari's decision to yank scholly's of unwilling kids is immoral. Bringing up a kid who played at UCLA and the North Carolina basketball coach doesn't change that. Kids getting in trouble and NCAA clearinghouse matters have never been part of the discussion until you steered it that way to avoid directly addressing the elephant in the room. Harrison Barnes has addressed it. I have addressed it. Let's hear it. Is it immoral to drop an unwilling current scholarship player for a new recruit?
 

Good God you are dense. I'm only going to address one of your points because the rest is jibberish and you evidently don't like holes poked in your carefully crafted fantasy world where Bill Self, Roy Williams and Kansas are somehow not at fault and above the fray..only the victims of a cruel NCAA and circumstance.


It's not immoral. Like it or not, it is a business. The system itself is structured the way the coaches and Universities want it to be. Keep ignoring the facts of the case: That Matt Pilgrim didn't fit in with the style of play of a new coaching staff, that he performed poorly in the post season evaluations, that he was told playing time going forward wasn't in his future, that there were questions about his attitude (and Stewarts for that matter) in regards to how it would affect team chemistry.

Matt Pilgrim is a talented, athletic player with potential. There are many Kentucky fans who wanted him to stay based on nothing more than internet chatter and pickup game reports. Instead, a lesser talented (at least athletically) hard working kid who performed well in those post season evaluations, a kid who was willing to WALK ON to stay at Kentucky, got Pilgrim's spot Immorality would be giving Josh Harrellson the boot, after all he had said and done, in favor of Pilgrim because Pilgrim is argueably the better player.


That being said the roster situation was in bad shape before John Calipari showed up in Lexington. Any coach was going to have to make some hard and difficult decisions.
 




Calipari or not, Harrison Barnes wants to go to a university with solid academics which removes Kentucky from the list.
 




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