Bad News on the Covid Front

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stocker08 said:
No...they wouldn't. 30k to 40k deaths per year due to flu. It's not even close right now.

It's not about the politicization of covid. It's about morons like you that think there's no reason to maintain caution with it. Especially when a mass string of positives could easily shut the season back down.
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I never said anything about not being cautious. I said the BIG needs to have better options for a positive test and 21 days for a false positive makes no sense.

And for the record, there are only estimates on the flu each year, but it is widely believed that well over 100,000 people die with the flu each year. Covid and flu deaths are recorded completely differently. Yes, Covid is a thing, but certainly not the disease that most thought it was in March and April. You might want to check the CDC website and check other knowledgeable sources rather than spewing what the media keeps pushing. This moron is going to keep living his life with some caution, but not in fear.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
I never said anything about not being cautious. I said the BIG needs to have better options for a positive test and 21 days for a false positive makes no sense.

And for the record, there are only estimates on the flu each year, but it is widely believed that well over 100,000 people die with the flu each year. Covid and flu deaths are recorded completely differently. Yes, Covid is a thing, but certainly not the disease that most thought it was in March and April. You might want to check the CDC website and check other knowledgeable sources rather than spewing what the media keeps pushing. This moron is going to keep living his life with some caution, but not in fear.
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I can agree that they should keep their options open.....but you are being very flippant on the entire thing.

"It's widely believed." So triple what they actually report? And who cares if it's "not the disease that most thought in March and April". Fact is that about 220k have died SO far. And the rolling average right now is at about another 700 dying each day. That's another 50k approximately dead by the end of the year.

Exposure to ANYONE...regardless of age is an issue. Because those people can unknowingly spread it to others. No need to live in fear. But absolutely a reason to use your head.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
I never said anything about not being cautious. I said the BIG needs to have better options for a positive test and 21 days for a false positive makes no sense.

And for the record, there are only estimates on the flu each year, but it is widely believed that well over 100,000 people die with the flu each year.
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Widely believed by whom?
 


stocker08 said:
I can agree that they should keep their options open.....but you are being very flippant on the entire thing.

"It's widely believed." So triple what they actually report? And who cares if it's "not the disease that most thought in March and April". Fact is that about 220k have died SO far. And the rolling average right now is at about another 700 dying each day. That's another 50k approximately dead by the end of the year.

Exposure to ANYONE...regardless of age is an issue. Because those people can unknowingly spread it to others. No need to live in fear. But absolutely a reason to use your head.
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Don't waste your breath. Teach your kids the values of logical thinking, empathy, decency, and the quest for truth and lets hope they make the world a better place.
 



This moron is going to keep living his life with some caution, but not in fear.

Here's the problem: if you never get infected, you'll declare that proves the country should have been completely open in April or May.

But that doesn't prove the virus isn't deadly. It just proves you're a lucky moron.
 

Cedar Rapids Gopher said:
All I can say is a big 10 rules seem to be out of the norm and a little harsh.
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Has it occurred to anyone that the B1G may not totally want this season to be successful or to go seamlessly? They were embarrassed early on, caved in to pressure to ultimately do SOMETHING, and here we are. So let's impose ridiculously harsh restrictions and ground rules that will almost ensure failure. But hey, we tried?
 

Plausible Deniability said:
Has it occurred to anyone that the B1G may not totally want this season to be successful or to go seamlessly? They were embarrassed early on, caved in to pressure to ultimately do SOMETHING, and here we are. So let's impose ridiculously harsh restrictions and ground rules that will almost ensure failure. But hey, we tried?
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I don't think this is the case. With the other power 5 conferences playing it is in their best interests to get the games in. There is still a lot of money to be made for the conference. They no doubt want to protect themselves from whatever issues are bound to come up but I don't think they want the season to fail.
 




GoForGold said:
FYI, it's a hot topic on a Michigan forum at the moment.

MGoBlog
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I love that their fans just assume this is fully a Minnesota issue. I am sure their team is dealing with this as well and doesn't have some magical bubble that is protecting their players while other teams just let the virus run rampant on their teams.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
I never said anything about not being cautious. I said the BIG needs to have better options for a positive test and 21 days for a false positive makes no sense.

And for the record, there are only estimates on the flu each year, but it is widely believed that well over 100,000 people die with the flu each year. Covid and flu deaths are recorded completely differently. Yes, Covid is a thing, but certainly not the disease that most thought it was in March and April. You might want to check the CDC website and check other knowledgeable sources rather than spewing what the media keeps pushing. This moron is going to keep living his life with some caution, but not in fear.
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I don't doubt that it is "widely believed" that "well over" 100,000 people in the U.S. die from the flu every year. In this day of facebook "news" and internet misinformation, there are a lot of things that are untrue but widely believed, unfortunately.

Of course, despite what people believe, there are always those pesky stats and facts - which in this case put that level at around 12,000 to 60,000 per year, since 2010. From all the infectious disease experts I have seen comment on Covid, it is very much the same disease they were warning us about in March and April.

You said we might want to check the CDC website. So, here is AN EXACT QUOTE FROM THE CDC WEBSITE: " CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9 million – 45 million illnesses, between 140,000 – 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 – 61,000 deaths annually since 2010. "

www.cdc.gov

Burden of Influenza

Learn about how CDC estimates the burden of seasonal influenza in the U.S.
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
.
 

Schnauzer said:
I don't doubt that it is "widely believed" that "well over" 100,000 people in the U.S. die from the flu every year. In this day of facebook "news" and internet misinformation, there are a lot of things that are untrue but widely believed, unfortunately.

Of course, despite what people believe, there are always those pesky stats and facts - which in this case put that level at around 12,000 to 60,000 per year, since 2010. From all the infectious disease experts I have seen comment on Covid, it is very much the same disease they were warning us about in March and April.

You said we might want to check the CDC website. So, here is AN EXACT QUOTE FROM THE CDC WEBSITE: " CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9 million – 45 million illnesses, between 140,000 – 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 – 61,000 deaths annually since 2010. "

www.cdc.gov

Burden of Influenza

Learn about how CDC estimates the burden of seasonal influenza in the U.S.
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
.
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I will bet that since we, well those of us smart folk, are social distancing and wearing a mask, the flu deaths are lower this year than normal. COVID is probably more contagious and we are seeing new numbers for flu that will be lower than what history shows. Why is this so hard for people to understand?
 



Schnauzer said:
I don't doubt that it is "widely believed" that "well over" 100,000 people in the U.S. die from the flu every year. In this day of facebook "news" and internet misinformation, there are a lot of things that are untrue but widely believed, unfortunately.

Of course, despite what people believe, there are always those pesky stats and facts - which in this case put that level at around 12,000 to 60,000 per year, since 2010. From all the infectious disease experts I have seen comment on Covid, it is very much the same disease they were warning us about in March and April.

You said we might want to check the CDC website. So, here is AN EXACT QUOTE FROM THE CDC WEBSITE: " CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9 million – 45 million illnesses, between 140,000 – 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 – 61,000 deaths annually since 2010. "

www.cdc.gov

Burden of Influenza

Learn about how CDC estimates the burden of seasonal influenza in the U.S.
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
.
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See here's the thing, I never said over 100,000 people die of the flu, I said well over 100,000 people die with the flu each year. When a prominent doctor from Mayo Clinic told me that, I was flabbergasted. My entire point is that, yes, there have been over a quarter of a million people that have died with Covid not necessarily because of Covid. It's a very important distinction. Flu deaths have never been counted, only estimated. Of all Covid deaths, only 2% of them have been under the age of 40. Very similar to the flu, pneumonia, etc....

As a society we need to look out for the 70+ crowd and be extremely respectful of their susceptibility of Covid.

In the meantime:
Suicide rates have increased
Depression has increased
Alcoholism and spousal abuse has increased
The list goes on and on of the effects that the lockdowns have had on human kind.

Did you all see the quote from Chad Hartman about his father? To paraphrase....My father didn't die of Covid 19, yet Covid 19 essentially killed him because he wasn't able to do his job, wasn't able to be around people which always kept him going.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
See here's the thing, I never said over 100,000 people die of the flu, I said well over 100,000 people die with the flu each year. When a prominent doctor from Mayo Clinic told me that, I was flabbergasted. My entire point is that, yes, there have been over a quarter of a million people that have died with Covid not necessarily because of Covid. It's a very important distinction. Flu deaths have never been counted, only estimated. Of all Covid deaths, only 2% of them have been under the age of 40. Very similar to the flu, pneumonia, etc....

As a society we need to look out for the 70+ crowd and be extremely respectful of their susceptibility of Covid.

In the meantime:
Suicide rates have increased
Depression has increased
Alcoholism and spousal abuse has increased
The list goes on and on of the effects that the lockdowns have had on human kind.

Did you all see the quote from Chad Hartman about his father? To paraphrase....My father didn't die of Covid 19, yet Covid 19 essentially killed him because he wasn't able to do his job, wasn't able to be around people which always kept him going.
Click to expand...

I think there is quite a difference between a full lockdown and asking people to wear masks and social distance. I haven't heard anyone on here (or really in the news) asking for a full lockdown now. Even Fauci said he doesn't believe one is needed.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
..Did you all see the quote from Chad Hartman about his father? To paraphrase....My father didn't die of Covid 19, yet Covid 19 essentially killed him because he wasn't able to do his job, wasn't able to be around people which always kept him going.
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Didn't read it, but heard Chad talking about it yesterday. He understandably got a little choked-up too. He said that a lot of people have been asking him if Sid had died of Covid. Then he replied with what you quoted.

Sid was a very tough and hardworking guy but what probably killed him?

He was 100 years old.

May he rest in peace.
 
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I think the Vikings losing to a no win team was the mortal blow for Sid.
To get back to the topic at hand, the disparate opinions expressed from indifference to grief and multiple references to can we trust team X or coach Y to be honest with testing and his team's response to a positive test is why I was not in favor of the BIG to play this fall.
On rapid testing, a false positive is very rare but false negatives are not
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
See here's the thing, I never said over 100,000 people die of the flu, I said well over 100,000 people die with the flu each year. When a prominent doctor from Mayo Clinic told me that, I was flabbergasted. My entire point is that, yes, there have been over a quarter of a million people that have died with Covid not necessarily because of Covid. It's a very important distinction. Flu deaths have never been counted, only estimated. Of all Covid deaths, only 2% of them have been under the age of 40. Very similar to the flu, pneumonia, etc....

As a society we need to look out for the 70+ crowd and be extremely respectful of their susceptibility of Covid.

In the meantime:
Suicide rates have increased
Depression has increased
Alcoholism and spousal abuse has increased
The list goes on and on of the effects that the lockdowns have had on human kind.

Did you all see the quote from Chad Hartman about his father? To paraphrase....My father didn't die of Covid 19, yet Covid 19 essentially killed him because he wasn't able to do his job, wasn't able to be around people which always kept him going.
Click to expand...
The number of people dying from Covid-19 so far is about the same number that die of influenza over five years.
That is from the CDC and not an unnamed "famous doctor from the WFMC".
Using the statistic that "only 2%" of deaths are under 40 indicates that to you people over 40 have no value at all. Their deaths are meaningless.
The phrase "looking out for the 70+ crowd" means nothing without your telling us what specifically society must do to look out for that age group.
Sweden tried that approach and older Swedes died in droves.
The dreaded things happening because of the lock down have not been proven or tabulated. It is scare talk until proven.
 

Plausible Deniability said:
Has it occurred to anyone that the B1G may not totally want this season to be successful or to go seamlessly? They were embarrassed early on, caved in to pressure to ultimately do SOMETHING, and here we are. So let's impose ridiculously harsh restrictions and ground rules that will almost ensure failure. But hey, we tried?
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If you haven't noticed....lots of teams that started playing earlier have had games "postponed" or outright cancelled. So....it's not as though things have been "seamless".

The funniest of the bunch is that Florida has now had TWO. Mullen pushed for FULL attendance against LSU this past weekend....and DeSantis lifted the restriction. Too bad the game was postponed because of covid. Not to mention that Mullen HIMSELF caught it.

Go figure. The ones dismissing it are the ones getting the hardest hit. Wonder why?
 

Look - getting back to football.

Players miss games for all kinds of reasons. Injuries. disciplinary actions by the coach. Illness. sometimes guys even get benched for poor play.

and now, add covid to the mix.

I suspect that lineups for most teams will be very flexible this year. It is entirely possible that the Gophers - assuming they play all 9 games - could have a different starting lineup for every game this year.

the real question is whether teams will tell us why certain players are not in the lineup.

Bottom line - whoever is available to play will play. if a guy is out with covid - or a guy is out with a high ankle sprain, it really doesn't make a difference. they're still out. and someone else has to fill that spot. what this will tell us is how effective recruiting has been at developing depth, and how effective the coaches are doing at developing young talent.

I just really do NOT want to hear fans complaining about how "we would have won if X had played."
 






I never said over 100,000 people die of the flu, I said well over 100,000 people die with the flu each year.

What do "die of" and "die with" mean, then?

Here is a Scientific American article (credit to GH user @chri1673 for posting in the OTB covid thread) reporting a mild flu season in the southern hemisphere and hypothesizing the same could happen in the northern: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/flu-season-never-came-to-the-southern-hemisphere1/

Note this key quote in the third graphic panel: during the 2018-19 season - an average one - flu killed 34,000 people in the U.S.


Pretty far from 100k. But of course, we're waiting on pins and needles for some absurd definition of "die with".
 

Block M said:
Widely believed by whom?
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by many, Covid numbers are greatly inflated with people who never even had Covid. There was a story in the news that a motorcyclist died in a crash and they labeled it a Covid death.

we had test sites give 1000s of test and they had a 100% infection rate...not one negative.

when the government gives thousands of extra money to places for Covid Deaths it’s easy for it to be corrupted To get tht extra money and therefore corrupts the stats of the virus.

also not only that you had NY and Michigan Governors purposely place infected people in nursing homes essentially killing the most susceptible people to the virus. That in itself inflated the death numbers greatly by thousands.
 
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HoustonTXGopher said:
As a society we need to look out for the 70+ crowd and be extremely respectful of their susceptibility of Covid.
Click to expand...

Did you all see the quote from Chad Hartman about his father? To paraphrase....My father didn't die of Covid 19, yet Covid 19 essentially killed him because he wasn't able to do his job, wasn't able to be around people which always kept him going.
Click to expand...

Narrator: Sid Hartman was over 70.
 

MplsGopher said:
I never said over 100,000 people die of the flu, I said well over 100,000 people die with the flu each year.

What do "die of" and "die with" mean, then?

Here is a Scientific American article (credit to GH user @chri1673 for posting in the OTB covid thread) reporting a mild flu season in the southern hemisphere and hypothesizing the same could happen in the northern: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/flu-season-never-came-to-the-southern-hemisphere1/

Note this key quote in the third graphic panel: during the 2018-19 season - an average one - flu killed 34,000 people in the U.S.


Pretty far from 100k. But of course, we're waiting on pins and needles for some absurd definition of "die with".
Click to expand...

Sorry for those looking for Football related Covid conversations here but I was mentioned here so will respond here.

To me this is clearly stating there is a strong chance that the flu could lead to other "causes" of death. Not sure what type of magnitude we are talking here, if this gets us from the 34,000 number to 50,000, 100,000, or 200,000 but the CDC website states that it is recognized that flu deaths are underreported

Frequently Asked Questions about Estimated Flu Burden | CDC

Links to key resources on the burden of influenza - CDC
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
"Seasonal influenza may lead to death from other causes, such as pneumonia, congestive heart failure, or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. It has been recognized for many years that influenza is underreported on death certificates and patients aren’t always tested for seasonal influenza infection, particularly the elderly who are at greatest risk of seasonal influenza complications and death"

With the current hyper focus on Covid it is easy to see how it would end up on more death certificates than the flu in the past. I think the line that gets a lot of people to question the death number is:

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) FAQs

National Center for Health Statistics
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
"In cases where COVID-19 is reported as a “probable” or “presumed” cause of death, the record will receive the U07.1 code and be included in the count of deaths due to COVID-19. These cases can include those without laboratory confirmation, but the certifier determined that COVID-19 was a likely cause of death (e.g., the circumstances were compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty)."

I am not saying i don't think 200,000+ people haven't died from Covid or conditions brought on by Covid (this is likely to be true) or that the covid is just a bad flu season, but rather the number attributed to the flu seems like it has been undercounted historically, to what extent, who knows. Accurate numbers are important when discussing future plans.
 
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