Bad News on the Covid Front

[howeda7]

LOL. Stay at home except for football.

Nebraska: And what's wrong with that?

 

[Catechol]

LOL. Stay at home except for football.

The order looks like it is for on campus undergrads only. Not grad students or faculty/staff, and research/teaching labs will still operate. Football team much different with daily testing and much stricter socializing rules especially in game week.

 

[Plato]

Look - getting back to football.

Players miss games for all kinds of reasons. Injuries. disciplinary actions by the coach. Illness. sometimes guys even get benched for poor play.

and now, add covid to the mix.

I suspect that lineups for most teams will be very flexible this year. It is entirely possible that the Gophers - assuming they play all 9 games - could have a different starting lineup for every game this year.

the real question is whether teams will tell us why certain players are not in the lineup.

Bottom line - whoever is available to play will play. if a guy is out with covid - or a guy is out with a high ankle sprain, it really doesn't make a difference. they're still out. and someone else has to fill that spot. what this will tell us is how effective recruiting has been at developing depth, and how effective the coaches are doing at developing young talent.

I just really do NOT want to hear fans complaining about how "we would have won if X had played."

That is exactly what you will hear or read what fans will say.
Or they will say team X played with players who had no symptoms but tested positive.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

I think the Vikings losing to a no win team was the mortal blow for Sid.
To get back to the topic at hand, the disparate opinions expressed from indifference to grief and multiple references to can we trust team X or coach Y to be honest with testing and his team's response to a positive test is why I was not in favor of the BIG to play this fall.
On rapid testing, a false positive is very rare but false negatives are not

You continue to display yourself as a complete f'ng buffoon. Daily, sometimes hourly

 

[MaroonShaft]

You continue to display yourself as a complete f'ng buffoon. Daily, sometimes hourly

Why make sex with California????

 

[HoustonTXGopher]

I never said over 100,000 people die of the flu, I said well over 100,000 people die with the flu each year.

What do "die of" and "die with" mean, then?

Here is a Scientific American article (credit to GH user @chri1673 for posting in the OTB covid thread) reporting a mild flu season in the southern hemisphere and hypothesizing the same could happen in the northern: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/flu-season-never-came-to-the-southern-hemisphere1/

Note this key quote in the third graphic panel: during the 2018-19 season - an average one - flu killed 34,000 people in the U.S.


Pretty far from 100k. But of course, we're waiting on pins and needles for some absurd definition of "die with".

As explained earlier by other posters:
82 year old tests positive with CV-19 and has a stroke....cause of death = Covid
82 year old tests positive with influenza and has a stroke....cause of death = Stroke

Flu deaths have never been counted in the past, only estimated.

The point is...counting flu deaths and CV-19 deaths is not apples to apples.

Go Gophers beat Michigan.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

False alarm

If you’re going to do a strict lockdown for PR and
liability reasons...do a lockdown. You’re chasing the rats out of the ship and into the city, idiots.

Oh, and don’t forget to vote!


From the Detroit Free Press:

“Students who live in campus housing may only return to their home/permanent address if they follow U-M testing and checkout procedures.”

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Sorry for those looking for Football related Covid conversations here but I was mentioned here so will respond here.

To me this is clearly stating there is a strong chance that the flu could lead to other "causes" of death. Not sure what type of magnitude we are talking here, if this gets us from the 34,000 number to 50,000, 100,000, or 200,000 but the CDC website states that it is recognized that flu deaths are underreported

Frequently Asked Questions about Estimated Flu Burden | CDC

Links to key resources on the burden of influenza - CDC

www.cdc.gov

"Seasonal influenza may lead to death from other causes, such as pneumonia, congestive heart failure, or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. It has been recognized for many years that influenza is underreported on death certificates and patients aren’t always tested for seasonal influenza infection, particularly the elderly who are at greatest risk of seasonal influenza complications and death"

With the current hyper focus on Covid it is easy to see how it would end up on more death certificates than the flu in the past. I think the line that gets a lot of people to question the death number is:

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) FAQs

National Center for Health Statistics

www.cdc.gov

"In cases where COVID-19 is reported as a “probable” or “presumed” cause of death, the record will receive the U07.1 code and be included in the count of deaths due to COVID-19. These cases can include those without laboratory confirmation, but the certifier determined that COVID-19 was a likely cause of death (e.g., the circumstances were compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty)."

I am not saying i don't think 200,000+ people haven't died from Covid or conditions brought on by Covid (this is likely to be true) or that the covid is just a bad flu season, but rather the number attributed to the flu seems like it has been undercounted historically, to what extent, who knows. Accurate numbers are important when discussing future plans.

This is actually a really interesting discussion, with a large, predictable seasonal excess deaths - 20-30k more per month at the peak in Jan/Feb versus the trough in the summer - year in and year out. Are all these seasonal “excess deaths” related to an increase in viral infections, lack of vitamin D/suppressed immune systems with knock on viral and immune mediated cascades of thrombosis, coronary events, death? Some other mechanism? Temperature only? What percent of the yearly swell in deaths can be linked to common and non-novel viral infections? Possibly quite high? Shall we PCR test every hospitalized person for bits of influenza, rhino, adeno, corona and others‘ nucleic acids to find any correlations?



.

 

[stocker08]

by many, Covid numbers are greatly inflated with people who never even had Covid. There was a story in the news that a motorcyclist died in a crash and they labeled it a Covid death.

we had test sites give 1000s of test and they had a 100% infection rate...not one negative.

when the government gives thousands of extra money to places for Covid Deaths it’s easy for it to be corrupted To get tht extra money and therefore corrupts the stats of the virus.

also not only that you had NY and Michigan Governors purposely place infected people in nursing homes essentially killing the most susceptible people to the virus. That in itself inflated the death numbers greatly by thousands.

Yes. These were all stories and theories pushed by the fringe right websites that the covid hoaxers have been pushing for a while now.

Infowars called. They thank you for your support. Alex Jones will be sending you a signed copy of his new book: Why Pizzagate is Real and More (not fake) Stories From the Cauldron.

 

[Cedar Rapids Gopher]

Yes. These were all stories and theories pushed by the fringe right websites that the covid hoaxers have been pushing for a while now.

Infowars called. They thank you for your support. Alex Jones will be sending you a signed copy of his new book: Why Pizzagate is Real and More (not fake) Stories From the Cauldron.

Florida fake, false coronavirus positives just another reason to distrust numbers

In Florida, local news reports that several individuals have tested positive for the coronavirus — despite never having taken the test. This Florida story just adds another question mark to the scores of question marks that hover over the entire COVID-19 madness.

m.washingtontimes.com

High coronavirus positive case rate reveals flaws in Florida Department of Health report

For at least the past 11 days, the Florida Department of Health coronavirus report shows hundreds of laboratories are reporting 98 to 100% of COVID-19 tests are coming back positive and according to the DOH those statistics are because some private labs aren’t reporting their negative results at...

www.clickorlando.com

 

[Cedar Rapids Gopher]

Yes. These were all stories and theories pushed by the fringe right websites that the covid hoaxers have been pushing for a while now.

Infowars called. They thank you for your support. Alex Jones will be sending you a signed copy of his new book: Why Pizzagate is Real and More (not fake) Stories From the Cauldron.

And here is the story about the guy who died in the motorcycle accident. The local CBS clearly alt right published the story.

Man who died in motorcycle crash counted as COVID-19 death in Florida: Report

A man who died in a motorcycle crash was counted as a COVID-19 death in Florida, according to a new report fromFOX 35 Orlando. According to the report, Orange County Health Officer Dr. Raul Pino was asked whether two coronavirus victims in their 20s had any underlying medical conditions that...

cbs12.com

 

[stocker08]

Florida fake, false coronavirus positives just another reason to distrust numbers

In Florida, local news reports that several individuals have tested positive for the coronavirus — despite never having taken the test. This Florida story just adds another question mark to the scores of question marks that hover over the entire COVID-19 madness.

m.washingtontimes.com

High coronavirus positive case rate reveals flaws in Florida Department of Health report

For at least the past 11 days, the Florida Department of Health coronavirus report shows hundreds of laboratories are reporting 98 to 100% of COVID-19 tests are coming back positive and according to the DOH those statistics are because some private labs aren’t reporting their negative results at...

www.clickorlando.com

First link is a op-ed. Could have been written by GF19 for all we know. Second link is the Florida Department of Health (DeSantis goons) disputing the numbers. Hospitals dispute their dispute.

Motorcycle accident....fair. But sounds more like a mistake than a concerted effort to rig the numbers.

 

[Cedar Rapids Gopher]

First link is a op-ed. Could have been written by GF19 for all we know. Second link is the Florida Department of Health (DeSantis goons) disputing the numbers. Hospitals dispute their dispute.

Motorcycle accident....fair. But sounds more like a mistake than a concerted effort to rig the numbers.

Sorry just grabbed the first two links. Back to CBS (very alt right) need more go to Google it took two seconds.

Dozens of Florida labs still report only positive COVID tests, skewing positivity rate

The positivity rate of COVID-19 tests is a key metric for understanding how the virus is spreading, and how prevalent infections are in the community. The Florida Department of Health reports the positivity rate of coronavirus tests each day -- which is supposed to show the number of positive...

cbs12.com

 

[stocker08]

Sorry just grabbed the first two links. Back to CBS (very alt right) need more go to Google it took two seconds.

Dozens of Florida labs still report only positive COVID tests, skewing positivity rate

The positivity rate of COVID-19 tests is a key metric for understanding how the virus is spreading, and how prevalent infections are in the community. The Florida Department of Health reports the positivity rate of coronavirus tests each day -- which is supposed to show the number of positive...

cbs12.com

A report on it from a local CBS affiliate is hardly a widespread story. And once again....it is coming out of Florida....where the DeSantis DOH was basically maneuvering to downplay covid in any form.

Even so....things that GF19 claimed:

- Covid numbers are greatly inflated with people who never even had Covid.

The entire second half of his post:

when the government gives thousands of extra money to places for Covid Deaths it’s easy for it to be corrupted To get tht extra money and therefore corrupts the stats of the virus.

also not only that you had NY and Michigan Governors purposely place infected people in nursing homes essentially killing the most susceptible people to the virus. That in itself inflated the death numbers greatly by thousands.


This is infowars narrative. A couple of articles from a Florida CBS affiliate does not cover the Alex Jones rambling going on here.

 

[Cedar Rapids Gopher]

A report on it from a local CBS affiliate is hardly a widespread story. And once again....it is coming out of Florida....where the DeSantis DOH was basically maneuvering to downplay covid in any form.

Even so....things that GF19 claimed:

- Covid numbers are greatly inflated with people who never even had Covid.

The entire second half of his post:

when the government gives thousands of extra money to places for Covid Deaths it’s easy for it to be corrupted To get tht extra money and therefore corrupts the stats of the virus.

also not only that you had NY and Michigan Governors purposely place infected people in nursing homes essentially killing the most susceptible people to the virus. That in itself inflated the death numbers greatly by thousands.


This is infowars narrative. A couple of articles from a Florida CBS affiliate does not cover the Alex Jones rambling going on here.

I was searching FL because that is a place I had heard had several people test positive without taking a test. And that I believe the number is 18 testing facilities had 100% positive tests.

 

[Cedar Rapids Gopher]

I don't feel like checking out the rest of the claims. I know the nursing home situation was really bad.

 

[MaroonShaft]

If you consider a Washington Times opinion piece a valid source, you need to work on your media literacy. The first clue is the lack of copy editing. The second is that it's written by Cherly Chumley (lol), a hack funded by a right wing think tank. The third is that it's "published" by Sun Myung Moon's washington times. I'm sorry but I can never take anything you post seriously again.

 

[GoldenRodents]

If you consider a Washington Times opinion piece a valid source, you need to work on your media literacy. The first clue is the lack of copy editing. The second is that it's written by Cherly Chumley (lol), a hack funded by a right wing think tank. The third is that it's "published" by Sun Myung Moon's washington times. I'm sorry but I can never take anything you post seriously again.

MaroonShaft has been sucked into the fetid swamp of Post-Modernism.

 

[West Fargo Gopher Fan]

Any update on the Gopher players who are out Saturday?

 

[Wally]

Michigan locks down campus and we are more worried about Gophers players missing game. I think it's a toss up who has more or more important players out for Covid.

B1G needs to shift their rules more in direction of NFL, no reason for such long quarantine with adequate testing. Might take a few cancelled games before it has a chance of happening.

 

[Plato]

This is how the Covid-19 pandemic exposes the divide in college sports.
This is how Saban got to coach in person against GA.

Three Tests, a Private Jet and a New Rule: How Nick Saban Made Kickoff (Published 2020)

Alabama’s immense resources and a newly developed Southeastern Conference policy paved the way for Saban to return to the field only days after he tested positive for the coronavirus.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Schnauzer]

As explained earlier by other posters:
82 year old tests positive with CV-19 and has a stroke....cause of death = Covid
82 year old tests positive with influenza and has a stroke....cause of death = Stroke

Flu deaths have never been counted in the past, only estimated.

The point is...counting flu deaths and CV-19 deaths is not apples to apples.

Go Gophers beat Michigan.

Again, those pesky stats and facts are getting in the way of your narrative. There is a way to help confirm deaths and reduce the amount of potential confusion (as you are trying to push) over who is dying from what. If a new strain of killer bees starts killing people, but someone argues they are no big deal because these people would have died from something else anyway, all researchers have to do is look at overall death numbers and rates, which are remarkably consistent from year to year and compare actual death amounts with the consistent historical numbers. They can then compare that gap to the reported number of killer bee deaths to see if they are in the same ballpark.

Anytime this is done as it relates to Covid-19, it becomes apparent covid death numbers are likely underreported, not OVER reported as you suggest, as it compares to the flu. In this case, the actual numbers of deaths exceeding norms between January and now is 300,000 thousand, while the reported covid deaths over the same period is 200K+ and this more than suggests that Covid deaths have been underreported. Here is an article explaining this, for you to ignore: https://www.statnews.com/2020/10/20/cdc-data-excess-deaths-covid-19/

Here is an official CDC writing on the same topic, complete with graphs, that clearly show how reported covid deaths have been remarkably consistent or even underreported in terms of overall deaths. Just look at the graphs on the main page to see how obvious this is.

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19

Figures present excess deaths associated with COVID-19 at the national and state levels.

www.cdc.gov

 

[MplsGopher]

Any update on the Gopher players who are out Saturday?

Appreciate trying to get the thread back on topic, but it is basically assumed fact at this point that Fleck won't give away anything before the game.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Again, those pesky stats and facts are getting in the way of your narrative. There is a way to help confirm deaths and reduce the amount of potential confusion (as you are trying to push) over who is dying from what. If a new strain of killer bees starts killing people, but someone argues they are no big deal because these people would have died from something else anyway, all researchers have to do is look at overall death numbers and rates, which are remarkably consistent from year to year and compare actual death amounts with the consistent historical numbers. They can then compare that gap to the reported number of killer bee deaths to see if they are in the same ballpark.

Anytime this is done as it relates to Covid-19, it becomes apparent covid death numbers are likely underreported, not OVER reported as you suggest, as it compares to the flu. In this case, the actual numbers of deaths exceeding norms between January and now is 300,000 thousand, while the reported covid deaths over the same period is 200K+ and this more than suggests that Covid deaths have been underreported. Here is an article explaining this, for you to ignore: https://www.statnews.com/2020/10/20/cdc-data-excess-deaths-covid-19/

Here is an official CDC writing on the same topic, complete with graphs, that clearly show how reported covid deaths have been remarkably consistent or even underreported in terms of overall deaths. Just look at the graphs on the main page to see how obvious this is.

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19

Figures present excess deaths associated with COVID-19 at the national and state levels.

www.cdc.gov

There has clearly been an increase in estimated mortality in 2020 and COVID is clearly worse than seasonal influenza. It’s not as clear how many of the deaths without COVID (see graph) on the certificate may have been linked to undiagnosed COVID in some way, shape, form; or whether in eg NY State how many deaths labeled COVID were instead due to medical facility avoidance or delay in care/diagnosis (ie, fear). It’s messy. Horrible year all around.

 

[Grant]

Harbaugh said they have no one out due to covid. Hard to believe but maybe not all schools will take the same approach.

 

[MplsGopher]

Sorry for those looking for Football related Covid conversations here but I was mentioned here so will respond here.

To me this is clearly stating there is a strong chance that the flu could lead to other "causes" of death. Not sure what type of magnitude we are talking here, if this gets us from the 34,000 number to 50,000, 100,000, or 200,000 but the CDC website states that it is recognized that flu deaths are underreported

Frequently Asked Questions about Estimated Flu Burden | CDC

Links to key resources on the burden of influenza - CDC

www.cdc.gov

"Seasonal influenza may lead to death from other causes, such as pneumonia, congestive heart failure, or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. It has been recognized for many years that influenza is underreported on death certificates and patients aren’t always tested for seasonal influenza infection, particularly the elderly who are at greatest risk of seasonal influenza complications and death"

With the current hyper focus on Covid it is easy to see how it would end up on more death certificates than the flu in the past. I think the line that gets a lot of people to question the death number is:

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) FAQs

National Center for Health Statistics

www.cdc.gov

"In cases where COVID-19 is reported as a “probable” or “presumed” cause of death, the record will receive the U07.1 code and be included in the count of deaths due to COVID-19. These cases can include those without laboratory confirmation, but the certifier determined that COVID-19 was a likely cause of death (e.g., the circumstances were compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty)."

I am not saying i don't think 200,000+ people haven't died from Covid or conditions brought on by Covid (this is likely to be true) or that the covid is just a bad flu season, but rather the number attributed to the flu seems like it has been undercounted historically, to what extent, who knows. Accurate numbers are important when discussing future plans.

Thanks for this thoughtful post and the CDC links and quotes.

He claims a doctor told him authoritativly more than 100k, but as you (and the CDC) say, we have no idea. Could easily be more like 34k official last year, and all told close to 50k.

 

[MplsGopher]

As explained earlier by other posters:
82 year old tests positive with CV-19 and has a stroke....cause of death = Covid
82 year old tests positive with influenza and has a stroke....cause of death = Stroke

Flu deaths have never been counted in the past, only estimated.

The point is...counting flu deaths and CV-19 deaths is not apples to apples.

Go Gophers beat Michigan.

You're going well past what the CDC actually says, and making up your own truth.

It is not recognized at all that seasonal flu leads to stroke. It is hypothesized that strokes have gone up due to covid, thought we currently don't understand why exactly that is true.

And again, imprecise and improper language on your part. Flu deaths are counted every year. What you should be saying, if you wanted to be correct, is something like "the CDC admits that not all deaths reasonably attributable to flu are included in the total count".


You final point is fine .... and vastly different than the much more specific point you were trying to push (100k flu deaths, a doctor said so! it's widely believed!).

 

[nsmike]

The best source I've found for Covid information that doesn't fallow the CDC line is https://healthy-skeptic.com/ A health industry blog which since May has devoted most of it's space to the virus. In today's installment, he points out that of the 300,000 excess deaths reported by the CDC, the biggest percentage of the100,000 not attributed to Covid occurred in the 25 to 44 yr old age group. With the death rate from Covid in this age group it's highly unlikely to be under reporting of Covid deaths.

 

[HoustonTXGopher]

You're going well past what the CDC actually says, and making up your own truth.

It is not recognized at all that seasonal flu leads to stroke. It is hypothesized that strokes have gone up due to covid, thought we currently don't understand why exactly that is true.

And again, imprecise and improper language on your part. Flu deaths are counted every year. What you should be saying, if you wanted to be correct, is something like "the CDC admits that not all deaths reasonably attributable to flu are included in the total count".


You final point is fine .... and vastly different than the much more specific point you were trying to push (100k flu deaths, a doctor said so! it's widely believed!).

You are 100% wrong in that flu deaths are estimated, not counted! The flu and and stroke was an example and example only. You are a clown!

 

[MplsGopher]

Enough derailment by arm chair professors. Jebus man, would you shut up??