B1GPAC Conference

[alchemy2u]

It seems very logical for the B1G and the PAC12 to blend together and form a mega national conference.

One could look at the B1G picking off the top schools from the PAC12, but I really do not see that happening. Why just add all of the top schools and not of the rest. It makes the conference too top heavy with only so many wins to go around. Some of the USC, OSU, PSU, MICH, Oregon, Stanford, etc, teams are going to have a damn good team with 3 or 4 losses. There has to be a balance and some schools have to have losing conference records.

Why would you keep Indiana, Illinois, Rutgers, Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, etc but not include Arizona, California, Utah, Washington State, Arizona State, etc....

The PAC12 and the B1G have had partnerships for a long time and they take a more academic approach to college sports. Split it evenly into 4 divisions. Two in the PAC and two in the B1G, play some cross over games, no out of conference games, and then have the championship game in the Rose Bowl. It would also lock the SEC into a regional conference with limited exposure nationally.

 

[BoatRacer]

What media organization is going to pay for PAC12 deadweight? Yes B1G has its share of deadweight but not as bad as Pac. Why would teams like OSU take less and travel more?

 

[alchemy2u]

What media organization is going to pay for PAC12 deadweight? Yes B1G has its share of deadweight but not as bad as Pac. Why would teams like OSU take less and travel more?

They would not take less. You add several very large TV markets and that would increase the B1G take per team. Just like when we added Rutgers and Maryland. They added eye for the TV package and improved the overall B1G revenue even though they came from a lesser conference.

 

[Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0]

I guess it beats merging with the MAC! BIG-MAC would be a nightmare as far as trademark infringement!!

 

[BTChamp]

I guess it beats merging with the MAC! BIG-MAC would be a nightmare as far as trademark infringement!!

When I first read it, I thought it was referring to the Big 12 and I was going to call it the PIG. But since it's the Big 10, I can't be disrespectful.

 

[fmlizard]

What media organization is going to pay for PAC12 deadweight? Yes B1G has its share of deadweight but not as bad as Pac. Why would teams like OSU take less and travel more?

What's the dead weight in the Pac 12? A bunch of flagship state universities, elite private schools, major media markets, high quality athletics from top to bottom. Washington State and Oregon State aren't that thrilling, but it's a very solid conference academically and athletically. There is more to a conference than football, or even sports.

I don't think the two leagues should merge, at all. I think the Pac 12 is more than strong enough to stand on its own. If the Big Ten were to add schools that aren't Notre Dame, I think the most attractive schools out there are Pac 12, and that includes all the SEC schools.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

What's the dead weight in the Pac 12? A bunch of flagship state universities, elite private schools, major media markets, high quality athletics from top to bottom. Washington State and Oregon State aren't that thrilling, but it's a very solid conference academically and athletically. There is more to a conference than football, or even sports.

I don't think the two leagues should merge, at all. I think the Pac 12 is more than strong enough to stand on its own. If the Big Ten were to add schools that aren't Notre Dame, I think the most attractive schools out there are Pac 12, and that includes all the SEC schools.

It is according to a certain tall ginger announcer, "The Conference of Champions."

 

[Plato]

What media organization is going to pay for PAC12 deadweight? Yes B1G has its share of deadweight but not as bad as Pac. Why would teams like OSU take less and travel more?

What would you consider dead weight states in the BIG?
They have to be states that have a low number of cable, yttv, hulu etc subscribers.
By definition then they would be states with a population below the mean for the BIG.
NE would fit in the dead weight category and perhaps IN or IA.
Almost all states that have PAC12 teams have populations the same or larger than many BIG states.
Wanting to include "loser" teams from the Pac12 so the "losers" in the BIG could win a few more games is pathetic.

 

[Ignatius L Hoops]

With the potential demise of the NCAA, conferences may have to scale up to provide the things the NCAA does do. While the NCAA is not involved in running college football, it does enforce rules of the game and compliance.

 

[Some guy]

Why would the pac 12 schools be worth double the TV money that they currently are simply by being joined with the big ten?

Are you saying the pac 12 is that bad at negotiating

They would not take less. You add several very large TV markets and that would increase the B1G take per team. Just like when we added Rutgers and Maryland. They added eye for the TV package and improved the overall B1G revenue even though they came from a lesser conference.

to break even revenue per team, they need to bring to the table more money than the average big ten payout, currently around 50 million per year.


If the big 10 adds 6….they need 300 million additional revenue per year to break even. THE ENTIRE PAC 12 IS WORTH 400 million per year
And that’s just to break even on payout. Breaking even on payout would be a net loss per team due to increased travel.

For the big ten to increase payout per team by 6 million per team….the 6 added schools would need to pay out more than the amount that the current entire pac 12 conference is worth per year.

 

[MplsGopher]

It seems very logical for the B1G and the PAC12 to blend together and form a mega national conference.

One could look at the B1G picking off the top schools from the PAC12, but I really do not see that happening. Why just add all of the top schools and not of the rest. It makes the conference too top heavy with only so many wins to go around. Some of the USC, OSU, PSU, MICH, Oregon, Stanford, etc, teams are going to have a damn good team with 3 or 4 losses. There has to be a balance and some schools have to have losing conference records.

Why would you keep Indiana, Illinois, Rutgers, Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, etc but not include Arizona, California, Utah, Washington State, Arizona State, etc....

The PAC12 and the B1G have had partnerships for a long time and they take a more academic approach to college sports. Split it evenly into 4 divisions. Two in the PAC and two in the B1G, play some cross over games, no out of conference games, and then have the championship game in the Rose Bowl. It would also lock the SEC into a regional conference with limited exposure nationally.

This essentially puts it back to where it was pre-BCS, with the Rose Bowl as the only hold-out from the Bowl Alliance. When the Rose, Big Ten, and PAC-10 caved, and the Rose was added, it became the BCS.

Not saying I'm against it. But the TV money probably wouldn't be there like it is now, with a fully national viewer base.

Would you let Big Ten and PAC teams play in other bowl games against the ESPN/SEC/ACC juggernaut?

 

[MplsGopher]

With Notre Dame as a zero chance .... USC is probably the most valuable property that could realistically be had by the Big Ten before/within the time frame of the conference's next TV contract.

If you add USC and one other school, whichever maximizes the new contract, that would be a "fair" call-and-answer by the Big Ten to the SEC.


Let's see if that happens. I don't know if USC/Oregon are ready to do that to the PAC.


But the PAC certainly has been the worst P5 when it comes to making the CFP, with only 2 out of the 7 so far. Granted, Oklahoma has done a lot of the heavy lifting for the Big XII.

 

[Marooned]

Why would the pac 12 schools be worth double the TV money that they currently are simply by being joined with the big ten?

Are you saying the pac 12 is that bad at negotiating



to break even revenue per team, they need to bring to the table more money than the average big ten payout, currently around 50 million per year.


If the big 10 adds 6….they need 300 million additional revenue per year to break even. THE ENTIRE PAC 12 IS WORTH 400 million per year
And that’s just to break even on payout. Breaking even on payout would be a net loss per team due to increased travel.

For the big ten to increase payout per team by 6 million per team….the 6 added schools would need to pay out more than the amount that the current entire pac 12 conference is worth per year.

All valid points. At the same time, we could do nothing and the PAC12 joins with the remaining Big12 teams to form a super conference, leaving the B1G behind the conference arms race which could cause the various TV deals to be less lucrative. Who really knows!?

 

[Herd]

1+1= 2. This is a silly notion that somehow 1+1=3 or 4 or 5. By combining as a conf, the B1G would be generously buoying up the PAC. Pointless exercise.

 

[Plato]

Why would the pac 12 schools be worth double the TV money that they currently are simply by being joined with the big ten?

Are you saying the pac 12 is that bad at negotiating



to break even revenue per team, they need to bring to the table more money than the average big ten payout, currently around 50 million per year.


If the big 10 adds 6….they need 300 million additional revenue per year to break even. THE ENTIRE PAC 12 IS WORTH 400 million per year
And that’s just to break even on payout. Breaking even on payout would be a net loss per team due to increased travel.

For the big ten to increase payout per team by 6 million per team….the 6 added schools would need to pay out more than the amount that the current entire pac 12 conference is worth per year.

The BIG is not buying any Pac12 teams.
So their "worth" is meaningless.
What needs to be analyzed is how many new subscribers to the BTN adding some Pac12 teams would bring.

 

[MplsGopher]

The BIG is not buying any Pac12 teams.
So their "worth" is meaningless.
What needs to be analyzed is how many new subscribers to the BTN adding some Pac12 teams would bring.

PayTV is going towards a single national market via streaming services like YouTubeTV, Hulu, etc.

I could easily be wrong, or it could change as well, but I don't see those services crafting special channel lineups per market, like cableTV has traditionally offered. They don't have special infrastructure in particular markets. They only have to abide by FCC rules saying that only the actual local broadcast channels can be carried in each market, but none of that applies to cable channels like ESPN, FS1, SEC TV, or BTN.


So both for BTN, as well as for the main TV contract that the Big Ten has for its top games -- the point is to get the most money they can, by having the most games that will get the most total viewership as they can.

 

[TruthSeeker]

The Big Ten should not prop up the Pac 12. The Pac 12 can stand on it's own or whither away.

We'll take USC and maybe 3 other schools along with them if the Pac 12 can't make it. That's about it.

 

[Ski U Mah Gopher]

Why is everyone writing off Arizona & ASU?

The Phoenix metro area is larger than both the Twin Cities & Seattle, and have a slew of fans of both those teams and a lot of B1G fans there right now.

 

[Plato]

Why is everyone writing off Arizona & ASU?

The Phoenix metro area is larger than both the Twin Cities & Seattle, and have a slew of fans of both those teams and a lot of B1G fans there right now.

It is not the number of fans that bring in the TV money it is the number of providers of TV that would put the BTNPAC12 combo channel in their required channels.
Fan or not, you still have to pay for that channel.

 

[Ski U Mah Gopher]

It is not the number of fans that bring in the TV money it is the number of providers of TV that would put the BTNPAC12 combo channel in their required channels.
Fan or not, you still have to pay for that channel.

BTN is already on Cox (Phoenix) (I've watched many a 9 AM Gopher football game from my hotel room when visiting down there in Sept or Oct).

For Tucson, I'm not sure of the cable situation down there.

 

[Some guy]

All valid points. At the same time, we could do nothing and the PAC12 joins with the remaining Big12 teams to form a super conference, leaving the B1G behind the conference arms race which could cause the various TV deals to be less lucrative. Who really knows!?

If the remaining big 12 joins the pac 12 they’d have 20 teams locked in a contract worth 60-70% of what the current big ten commands.

if simply having more teams is what made you a super conference the mountain west and American would’ve combined years ago

 

[Some guy]

The BIG is not buying any Pac12 teams.
So their "worth" is meaningless.
What needs to be analyzed is how many new subscribers to the BTN adding some Pac12 teams would bring.

The teams added need to be worth more than the entire current pac 12 team for the big ten to make 5 million dollars extra per team for the existing members.

Assuming you add 6 members and it takes 250 million dollars of the pac 12 400 million revenue with it…. @1.30 per subscriber you would need to add 115 million “in market” subscribers to break even in terms of big ten payouts. Add 190million subscribers to make an extra 5 million per team.

meanwhile in Comcast’s deal with BTN they dropped parts of the New York metro as “in market” rates even though rutgers is a few miles away.
meaning Stanford doesn’t make you in market in San Francisco necessarily
USC and/or UCLA doesn’t make you in market in San Diego necessarily.

 

[Some guy]

It is not the number of fans that bring in the TV money it is the number of providers of TV that would put the BTNPAC12 combo channel in their required channels.
Fan or not, you still have to pay for that channel.

They only make 1.30 per in market subscriber. To bring in 6 teams they need to bring in 400 million extra revenue for big ten payouts to be equal.
This includes subscriber fees and tier games sold to networks not named big ten network. The big ten doesn’t keep 100% of the profits of big ten network. They have expenditures and Fox gets a cut as well. Gave you some math in a different reply

But here is some more math. Even if every person in California, Oregon, Colorado, and Washington paid as an in market subscriber….(they can’t as some of these people are infants and it is unlikely two adults living together get two subscriptions) population of those 4 states are about 56 million. At 1.30 per person that’s 73 million dollars in subscriber fees.

Assuming overhead doesn’t increase and that’s pure profit….still need to find another 325 million dollars somewhere to increase big ten payouts by even 10%



California is big but I’m not sure people realize that the entire pac 12 footprint is only 57 million people.
the big ten west is 29 million
The big ten east is 67 million including New York 47 not including New York

There are only 13 million “households” in California. Even if they call got tier 1 big ten network that’s only 17 million per year in extra revenue from subscriber fees.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

So, I found a site listing FBS schools and their media markets. Assuming this site is accurate, here are two lists - B1G teams ranked by media market, and PAC-12 teams ranked by media market. Several Pac-12 teams share the same media market.

Rutgers - 1
NW - 3
Mary - 10
Mich - 12
MN - 13
Ind - 30
OSU - 36
Ill - 91
IA - 97
WI - 98
PSU - 114
Neb - 121
MSU - 128
Pur - 205
---------
USC & UCLA - 2
Cal & Stanford - 7
Wash - 14
AZ State - 15
Colo - 18
Utah - 31
Ariz - 76
Wash St - 77
Oreg St & Oregon - 129

 

[hungan1]

The bubble will burst someday with D1 college football. It's clear where everything is going. It is the smell of money. It stinks.

The conferences are kowtowing to Big Media with the promise of more manna from heaven. Does anyone care about college traditions?

Everything is going hunky-dory until your college team is considered dead weight and is promptly disposed of.

 

[swelna]

Based on a combination of https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances, https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/university-of-southern-california/student-life/sports/, and https://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe...er-5-schools-to-follow-suit/?sh=46212c865f83; the top 4schools in revenue that are also AAU are Stanford, Washington, Oregon, and USC in that order.

I think those schools would have the highest chance of increasing revenue and based on SON's post, that would hit the top three markets in the Pac-12.

The outlier here is Oregon, they make a ton of money in the worst market. Funnily enough, ASU athletics makes more revenue than USC and are in a better market than Oregon, but they aren't AAU...

Of course, all of those schools have an in conference rivalry currently that would have to become a permanent OOC game to keep going, so that might keep some of them away, but I think my picks right now are Stanford, Washington, Oregon, and USC with Oregon potentially being swapped for ASU if the AAU stuff got dropped.

 

[swelna]

Also, I like the idea of a private school triangle of hate rivalry between Stanford, USC, and Northwestern

 

[fmlizard]

Alternate strategy - instead of adding a bunch of random teams for cable distribution, embrace the heck out of streaming. BTN is standard programming on Fubo, YouTube TV, Hulu, and other streaming services. This is regardless of location.

BTN could either amp up its own streaming offering, or simply blanket the nation by agreements with the aforementioned streaming platforms. As cord cutting becomes more popular the conference adds subscribers without adding schools.

There's more than one way to win the media money printing game.

 

[Ski U Mah Gopher]

So, I found a site listing FBS schools and their media markets. Assuming this site is accurate, here are two lists - B1G teams ranked by media market, and PAC-12 teams ranked by media market. Several Pac-12 teams share the same media market.

Rutgers - 1
NW - 3
Mary - 10
Mich - 12
MN - 13
Ind - 30
OSU - 36
Ill - 91
IA - 97
WI - 98
PSU - 114
Neb - 121
MSU - 128
Pur - 205
---------
USC & UCLA - 2
Cal & Stanford - 7
Wash - 14
AZ State - 15
Colo - 18
Utah - 31
Ariz - 76
Wash St - 77
Oreg St & Oregon - 129

Those market numbers are phony.

Wisconsin is more than the Madison market, and OSU is more than the Columbus market. And don't get me started on Penn St.

In the PAC-12, even though UA is in Tucson, more of their fans live in the Phoenix metro.

 

[MplsGopher]

Assuming overhead doesn’t increase and that’s pure profit….still need to find another 325 million dollars somewhere to increase big ten payouts by even 10%

That would be from the tier 1 TV contract. The one that's currently split 50/50 between FOX and ESPN right now, I believe until 2024.

Ohio St vs USC, Michigan vs Oregon, etc. will draw some eyeballs. It's all a matter of how much and how much they're willing to write the check for (captain obvious).