B1G Game 5: Gophers visit Wisconsin (1-8-23)

MRJ

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Both teams are giving heavy, heavy playing minutes to freshmen. They are playing for a big payoff later. Have to judge this season based on what the goals are which is a payoff later.

There are different expectations for freshmen and veterans.

Whalen has an historic recruiting class underway.

In two years they are going to be juniors and seniors. Then the goal will be to win big. Then the wins-losses will matter. Right now the goal is to develop for the payoff later.


https://gophersports.com/news/2021/...st-ranked-recruiting-class-in-program-history
Better hope so. Otherwise, the whole experiment of hiring coaches based solely on being former Gophers and Minnesota natives might not look so good, right?
 

Bfan

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That is also obvious from the attendance numbers.

I am a season ticket holder who does not go to most games.

Foe the men, the ticket sales per game are still over 10,500. The attendance is around 3,300 for complicated reasons including Covid and a rebuilding year. Many season ticket holders are the older sweater types. The season ticket holders have NOT been run off. They are just not using their tickets they bought. It's a rebuild year and still Covid.

The women are developing a top 10 recruiting class according to ESPN. I don't care at all what the win loss record is this year.
 

Bfan

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Better hope so. Otherwise, the whole experiment of hiring coaches based solely on being former Gophers and Minnesota natives might not look so good, right?
Truth to that partly.

Hiring Minnesota alumni Lindsay Whalen had positives and negatives.

One positive is she delivered her HOF stature to deliver the best recruiting class in program history. Nobody has topped that.

The downside is learning to be a Big Ten coach. That is behind us

The Ohio State gameplan was a coaching masterpiece. Whalen can coach.

We will find out in two years. Until then, nobody knows
 

MRJ

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I am a season ticket holder who does not go to most games.

Foe the men, the ticket sales per game are still over 10,500. The attendance is around 3,300 for complicated reasons including Covid and a rebuilding year. Many season ticket holders are the older sweater types. The season ticket holders have NOT been run off. They are just not using their tickets they bought. It's a rebuild year and still Covid.

The women are developing a top 10 recruiting class according to ESPN. I don't care at all what the win loss record is this year.
No, they're not. The Strib just ran an article by Marcus that gave the "tickets paid" number and it was between 8,000 and 9,000, not the 10,500 you claim. And trust me, if the teams continue at the bottom, they won't even be selling that many, much less scanning them.
 

Roland Brooks

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Truth to that partly.

Hiring Minnesota alumni Lindsay Whalen had positives and negatives.

One positive is she delivered her HOF stature to deliver the best recruiting class in program history. Nobody has topped that.

The downside is learning to be a Big Ten coach. That is behind us

The Ohio State gameplan was a coaching masterpiece. Whalen can coach.

We will find out in two years. Until then, nobody knows
Where are the masterpieces against NDSU and Wisconsin? How many masterpieces has she had? Lehigh was an amazing ending but a great shot saved them from losing to a .500 Patriot team. How many career masterpieces does Whalen have? How many times has she been out coached? Today out coached again……..
 
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MRJ

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Truth to that partly.

Hiring Minnesota alumni Lindsay Whalen had positives and negatives.

One positive is she delivered her HOF stature to deliver the best recruiting class in program history. Nobody has topped that.

The downside is learning to be a Big Ten coach. That is behind us

The Ohio State gameplan was a coaching masterpiece. Whalen can coach.

We will find out in two years. Until then, nobody knows
Learning how to be a Big 10 basketball coach is most definitely not behind Whalen. She's yet to field a truly competitive team in her coaching career and this year is more of the same. So, she's very much still learning. At least I hope so, because if this is what we get after "learning" how to coach, we're in big trouble.

Also, a plucky loss isn't a coaching masterpiece. A coaching masterpiece is actually getting a plucky win. And as this Wisconsin game showed, neither she nor her players have learned how to actually win games yet.

Bottom line is that we're now at the hoping-we-might-be-good-someday stage for both programs, which is hardly inspiring for just about anybody.
 

Bfan

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No, they're not. The Strib just ran an article by Marcus that gave the "tickets paid" number and it was between 8,000 and 9,000, not the 10,500 you claim. And trust me, if the teams continue at the bottom, they won't even be selling that many, much less scanning them.

I was citing the Star Tribune off memory.

Quote 1:

"The announced attendance for the Michigan game, for example, was 10,004, but the scanned ticket number was 5,872."

Quote 2:

"The Gophers' average announced attendance (tickets sold) through the first eight regular-season games is 8,551... the average number of tickets scanned for Gophers men's home games this season is 3,313."

So my intent was to cite the Star Tribune.

The point is that attendance is down but I believe the core season ticket holders are staying pat based on the higher sold numbers. While many fans don't want to walk in the door to see the team lose, more are staying pat fir the payoff later.

I for one cast my vote for "support the rebuld."

I am but one person.

Others are free to present their analysis of the current players and the goals underway

Start with the names of each player starting and give an analysis.
 

Bfan

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Anyone is free to rip away at anything I wrote.

I post content. Do what you want with the content. Ignore. Agree, Disagree. It is just sports talk.

Bfan sports talk. ;)
 

MRJ

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I was citing the Star Tribune off memory.

Quote 1:

"The announced attendance for the Michigan game, for example, was 10,004, but the scanned ticket number was 5,872."

Quote 2:

"The Gophers' average announced attendance (tickets sold) through the first eight regular-season games is 8,551... the average number of tickets scanned for Gophers men's home games this season is 3,313."

So my intent was to cite the Star Tribune.

The point is that attendance is down but I believe the core season ticket holders are staying pat based on the higher sold numbers. While many fans don't want to walk in the door to see the team lose, more are staying pat fir the payoff later.

I for one cast my vote for "support the rebuld."

I am but one person.

Others are free to present their analysis of the current players and the goals underway

Start with the names of each player starting and give an analysis.
Fair enough.
 



Bunyan

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also someone needs to go find the Mara from the Lehigh Penn State game.. we need that Mara to return ASAP.. I know teams are face guarding her and making it tough for her to get the ball.. but that's when our coaches need to adjust and get her going another way.. like getting herself to the free throw line.. can't just settle for 3's... what happen to that nice pull up jumper she was going to early on this season.
The only reason we won the Penn State game was the large discrepancy in free throws 32-14 and we made 28-32 (88%). And it still took overtime to win that game. It took every free throw to win that game. Otherwise 0-5 in BIG.
 

Bfan

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I am curious how over two weeks the team can be so different.

I thought I read that opponent prep coaching alternates each week.

I am curious is the architect(s) of the Ohio State game was/were different than the debacle against last place Wisconsin.

Whatever Ohio State was, double it.
 


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5th season of Coach Whalen. Has there been any real improvement? At what point is Coach on the hot seat?
 



Ragnor

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5th season of Coach Whalen. Has there been any real improvement? At what point is Coach on the hot seat?
I would say after or during the Minnesota fab 4 frosh’s junior year, at most, would be the earliest a coaching change could be considered. Whay can’t be on the hot seat with that recruiting class and the 2023 one coming in with Hart, the transfer. If you did that you would be shooting yourself in the foot. The only modifier to this would be another exodus of talent after this year or next along with not making the post season. To be clear, I am comfortable that the players are showing improvement although the lack of focus and energy at times was most disappointing. Katie must focus on her D getting assists and her open 3 shots. She Is too focused on making flashy plays. Her assist to turnover is underwater compared to her freshman 1/2 year. Rose needs to make better choices and prove she can pass out of being doubled or tripled. That will open things up for the team. Mara needs to find get comfortable again finding her spots. I am confident they will get there but these are my barometers.
 

Gophers112233

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I would say after or during the Minnesota fab 4 frosh’s junior year, at most, would be the earliest a coaching change could be considered. Whay can’t be on the hot seat with that recruiting class and the 2023 one coming in with Hart, the transfer. If you did that you would be shooting yourself in the foot. The only modifier to this would be another exodus of talent after this year or next along with not making the post season. To be clear, I am comfortable that the players are showing improvement although the lack of focus and energy at times was most disappointing. Katie must focus on her D getting assists and her open 3 shots. She Is too focused on making flashy plays. Her assist to turnover is underwater compared to her freshman 1/2 year. Rose needs to make better choices and prove she can pass out of being doubled or tripled. That will open things up for the team. Mara needs to find get comfortable again finding her spots. I am confident they will get there but these are my barometers.
this is pretty much spot on imho. Rose only has 7 assists this season.. and like you mentioned Katie's assist to turnover ratio isn't great at all.. these two are seen as the leaders but they also need to play like vets and especially late in games they aren't they are making some big miscues.. or trying to do TO MUCH.. with the flashy play from Katie, to Rose trying to split the double or even triple teams..
 

bball_craz_31

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I see a lot of people bring up the fact that Whalen is in her 5th Season when discussing the record and how the team is doing. First of all, Coyle knew this was not a 1-2 year plan when she was hired. It was playing the long game. Secondly, another thing we can drop is the notion of how she came into this great team as they went to the NCAA tournament the year before she came. Carlie Wagner was on that team and Hubbard was healthy on that team...both things Whalen didn't have year one. Stollings ran with a big four (Wagner, Hubbard, Bell and Pitts) to get to the NCAA and Whalen lost half of those yes still finished a game or two away from being in the NCAA tournament..as a first year coach with no experience.

Look at Utah Women's Basketball. They are right now ranked in the top 10. Guess what, their coach didn't make the NCAA tournament till her 7th year coaching (last year). Her 5th year they went 14-17 (6-12 in the pac-12)

Colorado Women's basketball. They didn't make the NCAA till last year in their coach's 6th overall season. See what I'm getting at here. I think the Illinois jump, which is a little unfair to compare as once again, different portal situation and difference in experience when the coaches were hire, has made it harder to take the slow build that the gophers are going through.

Now barring massive injuries, or players leaving, a team with Braun, Battle, Heyer, Holloway, Hart, Rose, Borowicz, Klick and the two highly impressive international prospects coming in should have an NCAA tournament or bust mentality. After next year, if no tournament or big jump, It is time for new leadership.
 

gopherdudepart2

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I don't mind the long game but the Gophers should not be losing to Wisconsin who we are nearing replacing as the bottom feeder in the conference. Time for Rose and Borrowicz to stop turning the damn ball over and Katie really needs to stop forcing so many out of control shots. I like her fire and energy on defense but she needs to start bringing some intelligence to her shot selection. Forcing up out of control shots isn't helping this team.
Rose needs to be able to pass out of the two player game and start finishing her shots. Easy layups at this point in the year need to be finished.
Amaya Battle needs to be a little more selfish and take more shots. Battle at times doesn't shoot enough.
Finally Braun needs to find her dang shot with a flash or search light, for whatever reason, defense, game planning, Braun needs to get her confidence back.
 

tripledouble

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I think Ragnor is 'spot on' with his assessment of Whalen and the current Gopher group. If this group can stay together, and with the incoming recruits, I think they could and should be an NCAA tourney team next year. This year has brought some disappointments, including NDSU and Wisconsin on the road, but overall, I'm still satisfied with the progress of this year's team. But that can's stop between now and the end of the season. If this team doesn't take some additional steps the rest of the season, it will be important to remember that they are still on of the bottom tier teams in the BIG. Not an easy conference to be in when it comes to rebuilding. 8 or 9 teams will probablly earn NCAA tourney berths this year and traditional bottom-feeders like Illinois and Wisconsin are getting better.
 

GFBfan

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Didn't watch the game, but can only imagine their (the players) focus and preparation for Wisconsin wasn't as good as it was for OSU. With a young team that can happen.
When they play again we will have learned a lesson and will run them off the floor!
 

Ignatius L Hoops

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Nevertheless, the point is that fans who thought we were in for a long run of mediocre basketball with Whalen’s hiring were accurate. And casting a glance around Williams Arena, many other fans seem to have abandoned the experiment all together.
 

thatjanelpick

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I think Ragnor is 'spot on' with his assessment of Whalen and the current Gopher group. If this group can stay together, and with the incoming recruits, I think they could and should be an NCAA tourney team next year. This year has brought some disappointments, including NDSU and Wisconsin on the road, but overall, I'm still satisfied with the progress of this year's team. But that can's stop between now and the end of the season. If this team doesn't take some additional steps the rest of the season, it will be important to remember that they are still on of the bottom tier teams in the BIG. Not an easy conference to be in when it comes to rebuilding. 8 or 9 teams will probablly earn NCAA tourney berths this year and traditional bottom-feeders like Illinois and Wisconsin are getting better.
We'll see. RealTime RPI, which projected a Gopher win yesterday, thinks they will only win four more all season, all but one of them close and the other being the next one against Rutgers, which seems to be going in the right direction.
 

BigTenGuy

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Not an easy conference to be in when it comes to rebuilding. 8 or 9 teams will probablly earn NCAA tourney berths this year and traditional bottom-feeders like Illinois and Wisconsin are getting better
Not that it detracts from your correct main point about the Big Ten, but Wisconsin is not getting better IMO. The Badgers are 0-10 against both NET and RPI quadrants 1-2. They are also 2-10 in their last 12 games, beating only St. Thomas in a game the Badgers could have lost, and then the Gophers.
 

SelectionSunday

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I am a season ticket holder who does not go to most games.

Foe the men, the ticket sales per game are still over 10,500. The attendance is around 3,300 for complicated reasons including Covid and a rebuilding year. Many season ticket holders are the older sweater types. The season ticket holders have NOT been run off. They are just not using their tickets they bought. It's a rebuild year and still Covid.

The women are developing a top 10 recruiting class according to ESPN. I don't care at all what the win loss record is this year.
Still COVID?

Time to move on and live life again.
 




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