B10 season

[mnboiler]

So mnboiler, you feel Purdue and MSU have "experience and coaching" whereas Illinois and OSU do not? I can't say I fully understand with or agree with your claims. Illinois has four seniors in their rotation (3 of which are returning starters and the spot the other senior would be starting is likely being taken by a McD's AA frosh) and a coach who's led a team to the national title game. OSU has 4 starters returning who have an average of 3 years in college (Lighty is 5th yr senior, Buford a junior) and a coach who's led a team to the national title game. Of any of those four, I'd say Purdue has the head coach with the worst resume - not saying Painter is bad, but I don't think it's fair to call him a great coach yet. Painter has cashed in on a great 2007 recruiting class for three years but hasn't really added any great players to that core since - Purdue should've won the league outright last year but didn't and I put that on the coach. I'm going to wait to see what he can do after those guys graduate before being convinced Painter as a great coach. And it's not like Purdue has a lot more experience than Illinois or OSU - three senior starters for Purdue and one junior (the same as OSU), and just sophomores and freshmen after that. Just because Illinois will most likely start one sophomore and one freshman doesn't mean they don't have enough experience to win.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear in my post. I personally think that Bruce Weber is better game day coach than Thad Matta and I like Illinois experience more than I like OSU's. I was comparing OSU to Illinois not OSU AND Ill to MSU and Purdue.

As for Painter you cannot call him a great coach, YET. Lets see how he does have JJ, Moore, and Hummel leave. You are right Purdue should have won the B10 outright last year but when Hummel went down that all changed quickly. I still say if Purdue had Hummel against Duke they win, beat down Baylor, West Virginia would have crapped the bed(look what the Boilers did to them New Years Day), and beaten Butler, to become National Champs. I know its a dream and that isn't the way it played out so it's pointless.

But Byrd did give Purdue some quality minutes at the end of the season, not many but enough to get some serious playing time this year.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

I'm sorry I wasn't clear in my post. I personally think that Bruce Weber is better game day coach than Thad Matta and I like Illinois experience more than I like OSU's. I was comparing OSU to Illinois not OSU AND Ill to MSU and Purdue.

As for Painter you cannot call him a great coach, YET. Lets see how he does have JJ, Moore, and Hummel leave. You are right Purdue should have won the B10 outright last year but when Hummel went down that all changed quickly. I still say if Purdue had Hummel against Duke they win, beat down Baylor, West Virginia would have crapped the bed(look what the Boilers did to them New Years Day), and beaten Butler, to become National Champs. I know its a dream and that isn't the way it played out so it's pointless.

But Byrd did give Purdue some quality minutes at the end of the season, not many but enough to get some serious playing time this year.

Painter is one of the best YOUNG coaches and an IDEAL coach for Purdue, I think (as '74 alumnus)

9 W, then 22, 25, 27, and 29 in his 5 years as Boiler HC. Teams have gotten better each year, or at least W totals have.

29 W is tied for school record for most W in a season.

 

[Justinc882]

F Hummel 30-35 mins, Byrd 5-10
C Johnson 30-35, Bade/Carroll/Marcius 5-10
G Moore 30-35, Smith 5-10
G Jackson 20-25, Hart 10-15, A Johnson 5-10
G Barlow 20-25, T Johnson 15-20

Boilers have lots of depth this year.

MSU fan here (think i'm the only one that ever occasionally posts here)

There's a difference between depth, and quality depth. Do you trust any of those depth guys to take a last second shot as Izzo did with Luscious against Maryland? I don't know much about Purdue outside of the starters honestly, but MSU had "depth" in 2009 but we got run off the floor by UNC (twice) because our "depth" was 3 freshmen, 3 sophomores and their inexperience showed (not to mention UNC was just way to damn good and that tournament Suton and Walton were awesome).

I see the bigten as a toss up between 4 teams the homer in me says MSU wins it

1)MSU
2) Purdue/OSU
4) Illinois
5-6)Minnesota/Wisconsin
7-11)who cares

I think ultimately MSU's depth, experience and the removal of the Chris Allen distractions give us the edge. Purdue is a good, borderline great, squad this year but right now there isn't anyone in the second string that I would expect to come in and keep up with MSU/Illinois or OSU's starters should one of the main guys for Purdue get hurt. OSU has a ton of talent, I need to see how they work out their PG situation and see how the young guys play but they could be very very good. Illinois has a lot of guys back and I think Weber is a good coach, I think he gets way to much glory from his 2005 FF run. I'd like to have Minnesota higher because I'm a big Tubby fan and I like your bigs a lot. Right now though it's hard for me to put either Minnesota or Wisconsin up against the other 4 teams over an 18 game schedule and see the Gophers or Badgers in the top 4.

Season can't start soon enough.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

MSU fan here (think i'm the only one that ever occasionally posts here)

There's a difference between depth, and quality depth. Do you trust any of those depth guys to take a last second shot as Izzo did with Luscious against Maryland? I don't know much about Purdue outside of the starters honestly, but MSU had "depth" in 2009 but we got run off the floor by UNC (twice) because our "depth" was 3 freshmen, 3 sophomores and their inexperience showed (not to mention UNC was just way to damn good and that tournament Suton and Walton were awesome).

I see the bigten as a toss up between 4 teams the homer in me says MSU wins it

1)MSU
2) Purdue/OSU
4) Illinois
5-6)Minnesota/Wisconsin
7-11)who cares

I think ultimately MSU's depth, experience and the removal of the Chris Allen distractions give us the edge. Purdue is a good, borderline great, squad this year but right now there isn't anyone in the second string that I would expect to come in and keep up with MSU/Illinois or OSU's starters should one of the main guys for Purdue get hurt. OSU has a ton of talent, I need to see how they work out their PG situation and see how the young guys play but they could be very very good. Illinois has a lot of guys back and I think Weber is a good coach, I think he gets way to much glory from his 2005 FF run. I'd like to have Minnesota higher because I'm a big Tubby fan and I like your bigs a lot. Right now though it's hard for me to put either Minnesota or Wisconsin up against the other 4 teams over an 18 game schedule and see the Gophers or Badgers in the top 4.

Season can't start soon enough.

Everybody but the C depth - I'd trust the others with key shot late in the game.

Byrd, Bade, Smith, Hart all saw good PT as reserves last year.

 

[Go Gophs eh?]

im willing to say hollins has more impact on the B10 that Byrd, Bade, Smith, and Hart. we will see though.

 

[Gold Vision]

Everybody but the C depth - I'd trust the others with key shot late in the game.

Byrd, Bade, Smith, Hart all saw good PT as reserves last year.

Yikes. After the big three, there is a serious drop off in talent.

Bade was a lumbering turnover and foul machine. 6.33 TO/A ratio.

Byrd shot 30.7% and 27.1 from 3pt and looked lost when pressured.

Hart had a couple break out games, interested in seeing more from him.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Yikes. After the big three, there is a serious drop off in talent.

Bade was a lumbering turnover and foul machine. 6.33 TO/A ratio.

Byrd shot 30.7% and 27.1 from 3pt and looked lost when pressured.

Hart had a couple break out games, interested in seeing more from him.

Bade is the weakest of the 4 that I mentioned but only need 5 fouls or 5-10 mins from him.

Byrd got better as the year progressed. Ditto Hart. Ryne Smith is an excellent outside shooter, if streaky.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

im willing to say hollins has more impact on the B10 that Byrd, Bade, Smith, and Hart. we will see though.

You must not have watched Boiler games. Smith was a capable SG back-up to Moore. Byrd was decent back-up for Hummel. Hart played very well as G reserve. Bade, just a big body in the post.

 

[Gold Vision]

Bade is the weakest of the 4 that I mentioned but only need 5 fouls or 5-10 mins from him.

Byrd got better as the year progressed. Ditto Hart. Ryne Smith is an excellent outside shooter, if streaky.

That had to have been a down year for Smith, he just shot a hair over 30%. This is definitely the year for the Boilers though.

 

[Go Gophs eh?]

I mean i watched those guys youre talking about get destroyed by us in the BTT

 

[scher215]

I mean i watched those guys youre talking about get destroyed by us in the BTT

That was a great game for MN

but in Purdue's defense (kind of ...) they had really not much to play for and when MN got that early lead they may have just packed it in, maybe not intentionally, but mentally, they had to all know the game meant very little to them.

 

[mnboiler]

I mean i watched those guys youre talking about get destroyed by us in the BTT

Minnesota played great in that game, no doubt. Purdue played like crap, no doubt. The Gophers kicked the Boilers, @!# up and down the court, no doubt. But do you really think if they played that game 99 more times that would happen again? Because I certainly don't. It was a fluke and Purdue proved it over the course of the year.

And if you want to focus on one game how about the Gophers lost to Portland or Indiana or Michigan or Northwestern? I can play that game too. If you want to know how good a team is you have to look at there body of work over a season, not just single games they mean nothing alone. While a single game can tell how good or bad a team can be, they say nothing about how good the team really is.

 

[Go Gophs eh?]

were not discussing the team we were discussing bade byrd smith hart etc. when i say purdue had no depth and people think im dumb, i say back it up, what solid contributions can those guys make? Same thing with wisconsin backers, do you really think rob wilson and tim jarmusz will replace hughes and bohanon? do you really think jordan taylor will be all conference? these are the questions that keep me guessing about those teams.

 

[underground629]

I'd agree with the tiers except I'd put Illinois in the 3rd one.

Tier 1
1. Purdue-I am a Boilermaker so I might be a little biased.
2. MSU-If you put MSU first I won't argue with you.

Tier 2
3. Illinois-I will take experience and coaching over freshmen any day.
4. OSU-See Illinois.

Tier 3
5. Wisconsin-Never, ever count a Bo Ryan team.
6. Minnesota-Could easily climb up the ranking quickly.

Tier 4
7. NW-No Coble, no hope
8. IU-Marginally better, but that isn't that hard.

Tier 5.
9. Michigan-No Manny, No Sims.
10. PSU-Do they still even have Battle?(That question says all you need to know about PSU basketball)
11. Iowa-Starting all over once more

 

[EG#9]

Minnesota played great in that game, no doubt. Purdue played like crap, no doubt. The Gophers kicked the Boilers, @!# up and down the court, no doubt. But do you really think if they played that game 99 more times that would happen again? Because I certainly don't. It was a fluke and Purdue proved it over the course of the year.

And if you want to focus on one game how about the Gophers lost to Portland or Indiana or Michigan or Northwestern? I can play that game too. If you want to know how good a team is you have to look at there body of work over a season, not just single games they mean nothing alone. While a single game can tell how good or bad a team can be, they say nothing about how good the team really is.

By all rights Minnesota should have been 2-1 against Purdue last season, with that gift we gave you in the Barn. That said, Purdue was the better team with Hummel and should be a favorite to be better than the Gophers in 2011.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

were not discussing the team we were discussing bade byrd smith hart etc. when i say purdue had no depth and people think im dumb, i say back it up, what solid contributions can those guys make? Same thing with wisconsin backers, do you really think rob wilson and tim jarmusz will replace hughes and bohanon? do you really think jordan taylor will be all conference? these are the questions that keep me guessing about those teams.

Those guys helped Purdue go 29-6 even with Hummel injury.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

Minnesota played great in that game, no doubt. Purdue played like crap, no doubt. The Gophers kicked the Boilers, @!# up and down the court, no doubt. But do you really think if they played that game 99 more times that would happen again? Because I certainly don't. It was a fluke and Purdue proved it over the course of the year.

And if you want to focus on one game how about the Gophers lost to Portland or Indiana or Michigan or Northwestern? I can play that game too. If you want to know how good a team is you have to look at there body of work over a season, not just single games they mean nothing alone. While a single game can tell how good or bad a team can be, they say nothing about how good the team really is.

Gophers SHOULD have W Purdue and Mich St games (both 1 pt L where Gophers led most of the game) at home AND Indiana and Northwestern (both L in OT where Gophers led). That's 4 more W in Big 10.

13-5 not 9-9 if those games were W.

 

[Bigeddysprings]

SS - For the most part, I agree on Bo/Bucky. I still contend that they feasted on the Big Ten over a period where the BT was as bad as it's been in a long long time. That's just not the case anymore.

If Wisky is successful NEXT season ('11-'12), after the departures of Leuer, Nankivil, and role players like Jarmusz, Gavinski, et al, THEN I will gladly concede that Bo and Wisky are "all that". The reason I say next season is this current group mentioned is that last group that Bo was able to bring in without having to compete against competent coaches at schools like Michigan, Indiana, and Minnesota. In the last 2-3 season, he hasn't had his pick like he had in years past against the likes of Amaker, Monson, Davis, et al.

As far as this year, losing Bohannon and Hughes will hurt, a lot, but they'll still be solid. Although I'm obviously biased, I subjectively agree with another poster who said there's no way they finish higher than the Gophers. I think that would be tough.

Does your vision include last year when Wisconsin finished 13-5 one game out of the conference championship?
Do you think that the 9 games Leuer missed with his injury may have equated to at least one more win?
Irrational hatred is fine, It should however be removed from the equation when in Vegas, when predicting
the end of days for the Wisconsin program, or order of finish in the BigTen.
As it is, your emotional whining just makes you look silly!

 

[Gopher Warrior]

Do you think that the 9 games Leuer missed with his injury may have equated to at least one more win?
As it is, your emotional whining just makes you look silly!

I'm thinking they only lost 3 games with Leuer out.. at tOSU, at Purdue.. no shame in either of those two.. then of course the puke at home against Illinois. Maybe you think they win that one with Leuer, but I don't know.. Illinois also beat Becky on a neutral court with Leuer playing... I also recall a game where he played well (26 points, 10 boards on 8/12 shooting) yet the Madison extension of UW lost to the little extension of Green Bay.

 

[scher215]

I was just going to comment yesterday how we had msu, osu, Purdue and gopher fans civilly talking big ten basketball. Leave it to the badger fan to end that. Thanks.

 

[mnboiler]

First Go Gophs eh? Purdue is not the deepest team ever. I will admit that but the Boilermakers are going be deeper than last year. They lose Kramer and Grant. The hardest part of replacing Grant is his expierence. Talent wise Purdue has both Terone and Anthony Johnson(not related) coming in who are both going to be very able to fill in his combo gaurd roll. Kramer is going to be tougher to replace not his defense(Barlow could be a better defender than Kramer IF he wants to, just IMO) but his attitude. The "This is mine and if you want it come and take it" or the "I hate to lose and I will not let us lose" attitude. Moore, I think, will be the one called upon to proved that this year even though I think Hummel will the unquestion leader of the Boilermakers.

In the front court we lose nobody but gain Sandy Marcuis who red shirted last year, a euro big that many people seem to be high on(I'm in the wait and see camp). We also gain freshmen Travis Carroll a throwback center who will get some minutes this year. Depending what you consider Hummel and Byrd(I think they are both 3's by nature) Purdue will go 4-6 deep in the front court. All in all Purdue will be much deeper this year.

Secondly after a little thought I am moving Illinois and OSU from Tier 2 to Tier 1.5-mainly to symbolize the fact they could move up to the top tier. Everyone else goes up by one tier.

Third to any Badger fan out there I thinks I might have slighted them, I didn't mean to I just think they are a cut below the top four teams. But I also know never to count out a Bo Ryan team. They could be in the B10 race to the end.

Finally-2 things to any Sparty fans out there.
1. Did you really have to steal Brendan Dawson away? I think the entire Boilermaker nation went into deep depression because of that and we are still drinking our way out(Figuretively of course, and I'm only partly joking.)
2. Would you personally, and Spartan fans in general, argue with people that put Purdue ahead of MSU going into the season or do you think that is a defendable and logical position.

 

[ppjmp]

b10 season........

The big ten is gonna be a dog fight. Exact placement in the end is gonna come down to injuries and winning the games your supposed to win. That never changes.

To answer MN boiler........

1) The "you win some and you loose some applies to everybody" Boilers need to focus their energy on other recruits and the upcoming season.\But I think this says it best:

2) I do think Purdue will be very good. I do think the big 3 may be one of the best trios in the nation. But bias aside, I would argue putting the boilers ahead of the spartans.
Experience
True, we are down to 2 seniors, but the experience in BIG GAMES @ winning time is priceless, (last 3 years for our team have been swt16,NC game,final four.) those are the biggest of games and the largest of stages. Lets not even get into preseason scheduling. SPartans +1
Depth
Past the big three you do have some quality depth, but I gotta again give th edge to the SPartans. 6th man of the year,2 different point guards that have INDIVIDUALLY carried their team to the finalfour (arguing this is splitting hairs). All scholly players less freshman were contributers in every game last year, with 1 or 2 walk ons that were at least managable and saw alot of minutes against quality opponents in last years post season. 2 of our 4 freshman are expected to be starters at some point next year, and many are figuring them as early entry canadates by sophmore year ( talent worthy, but useless assumptions untill u see them play in college) Spartans +1
Coaching.
Um, Painter gets better every year but...............................Izzo Spartans +1

Wait till u see the gopher post comparing MSU's preseason schedule. I would not be suprised to see Purdue 0-1 losses heading into conferance play and getting national attention. But I don't feel Lucas or HUmmel will be @ the same level this year post injury. How each team adjusts will be key, and my ramblings above back up my reasoning.

 

[Justinc882]

MN Boiler: I don't have Purdue ahead of MSU for a few reason.
A) I'm a homer I admit it
B) Really we have 2 "question" marks how will Lucas be coming back and who will replace Morgan. Delvon Roe is healthy for the first time in almost 4 years and word coming out of EL is that he looks like the kid Izzo recruited (read a better far more consistent version of Raymar), Luscious has shown he can step in for Lucas and while I think Kalin will start if we need to shorten his minutes early on I think we'll be ok.
C) I think while both teams have "depth" I think MSU has more quality depth. Our bigs (Sherman/Nix) both showed good things last year but Sherman needed to gain weight, Nix needed to lose it. Both have done so. We're also adding in a top15 recruiting class.
D) People want to make a big deal about the loss of Allen and while yes his defense and 3point shooting will be missed the kid was by all accounts a massive distraction. He didn't sleep with a teammates girlfriend or anything like that those rumors have been dispelled but people keep spouting them off. The understanding now is that Allen was really really defiant of Izzo. Not in the Draymond Green "i'm going to tell you my mind" type, just defiant.

E) as for Dawson yes we needed to take him away sorry



PPJMP:
Currently MSU's non-conference slate is

Maui invitational which is MSU, Chaminade, Wichita State, Uconn Kentucky, Washington, Oklahoma, Virginia
MSU will play Chaminade and at least Wichita state or Uconn.

Also we get
Texas @ MSU
@ Duke
South Carolina
Syracuse @Madison Square Gardens

So depending on how the Maui run goes MSU could end up with a non-con of Chaminade, Uconn, Kentucky, @ Duke, (Basically) @Sryacuse, Texas and South Carolina. Thus far those are the only confirmed games that I know of.

 

[OSUfan]

Justin, I think all Purdue fans should pick the Boilermakers to win the Big Ten, while all MSU fans should expect the Spartans to win and all OSU fans should pick the Buckeyes to win. They all tied for the title last year, and all have players from last year that they need to replace, so I think it's fair for all the fans of those three teams to expect their respective team to win this year.

 

[Justinc882]

Justin, I think all Purdue fans should pick the Boilermakers to win the Big Ten, while all MSU fans should expect the Spartans to win and all OSU fans should pick the Buckeyes to win. They all tied for the title last year, and all have players from last year that they need to replace, so I think it's fair for all the fans of those three teams to expect their respective team to win this year.

pretty much what I think. I honestly do think MSU will be the better team but as you said that's what every Purdue and OSU fan will think as well. That's why my point A was I'm a homer

 

[mnboiler]

pretty much what I think. I honestly do think MSU will be the better team but as you said that's what every Purdue and OSU fan will think as well. That's why my point A was I'm a homer

Being a homer is a good thing as long as it isn't blind to the point where you come off as dumb. (Ex. Iowa fans thinking they can win the B10 this year) In fact I encourage homer-ism it leads to a better rivals.

But can we all agree that a solid case can be made for all 3 for winning the Big 10 outright?

 

[Go Gophs eh?]

boiler you gotta factor in Illinois minny and dare i say it sconny, all those teams are capable of knocking off the "top" 3

 

[Justinc882]

Being a homer is a good thing as long as it isn't blind to the point where you come off as dumb. (Ex. Iowa fans thinking they can win the B10 this year) In fact I encourage homer-ism it leads to a better rivals.

But can we all agree that a solid case can be made for all 3 for winning the Big 10 outright?

Absolutely, I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see this year end in a tie again. One thing working against MSU (and for us kind of) is we only play OSU once but it's @ OSU.

 

[mnboiler]

boiler you gotta factor in Illinois minny and dare i say it sconny, all those teams are capable of knocking off the "top" 3

In a single game, yes but I don't think Illinois, Minnesota, and Wisconsin has what "it" takes to beat OSU(if they get everything going), MSU, or Purdue over the course of 18 game Big 10 grind.

 

[Go Gophs eh?]

we will see wont we. prolly one of the best seasons in B10 history coming up