Athletes Cannot Choose Their Degrees

[Deleted_User]

The pampered football player reminds me of the scene in the North Dallas 40 with the veterans in the whirlpool baths suffering in their injuries, gloating how great things are.

 

[XMan]

Don't change major. Postpone any class that doesn't fit until the next semester. Take one more year after football season is over, whatever it takes.

 

[Killjoy]

Unfortunately I haven't read anybody pointing out that many players here at Minnesota graduate early before their eligibility is over. They then use that opportunity to work on a master degree. Perhaps they are smart enough to figure out how to maximize the educational opportunity they were given. I doubt those that do, see themselves as victims. Instead, they realize that they need to take personal ownership of getting the most from this opportunity.

 

[highwayman]

Unfortunately I haven't read anybody pointing out that many players here at Minnesota graduate early before their eligibility is over. They then use that opportunity to work on a master degree. Perhaps they are smart enough to figure out how to maximize the educational opportunity they were given. I doubt those that do, see themselves as victims. Instead, they realize that they need to take personal ownership of getting the most from this opportunity.

Absolutely. It's five years of your life that will fly by no matter how arduous. Colter probably just now realized that he did everything for Arena football or McDonalds. Dang!

 

[xoxoemilyanne]

There are also three guys on our team who I know of who are biomedical engineering majors who take calc plus like three science classes each semester and they make it work. Just as daunting as a pre-med schedule.

 

[Hound Dogs]

I know this is a ridiculous argument but if in fact the universities are handcuffed into offering more compensation to these players based on the revenue they generate, couldn't the university demand that since many other sports operate deep into the red that their players pay money to the school to use the facilities and university resources? Obviously I am not supporting this as a viable argument or solution as it is absurd, but if the players' compensation is based on the money they generate then logically the university shouldn't be forced to offer compensation to sports who don't bring in money? I feel like Title IX supporters wouldn't like that too much. Speaking of which, does this mean that the university would also have to match this compensation in the women's athletics department.
In terms of players not being able to choose their majors, like many have said no one is holding a gun to their head. They can choose to be a student and hang up the cleats like 90% of other HS athletes do. The financial issue is irrelevant. If the player is truly smart enough to get into the school without the benefit of being a phenomenal athlete there are loans and grants that can help them pay for their schooling.
That being said, as a member of the Millennial generation, I would like to apologize to the rest of you for my generation's overall undeserved sense of entitlement. Its embarrassing.

 

[Gopherguy0723]

I know this is a ridiculous argument but if in fact the universities are handcuffed into offering more compensation to these players based on the revenue they generate, couldn't the university demand that since many other sports operate deep into the red that their players pay money to the school to use the facilities and university resources? Obviously I am not supporting this as a viable argument or solution as it is absurd, but if the players' compensation is based on the money they generate then logically the university shouldn't be forced to offer compensation to sports who don't bring in money? I feel like Title IX supporters wouldn't like that too much. Speaking of which, does this mean that the university would also have to match this compensation in the women's athletics department.
In terms of players not being able to choose their majors, like many have said no one is holding a gun to their head. They can choose to be a student and hang up the cleats like 90% of other HS athletes do. The financial issue is irrelevant. If the player is truly smart enough to get into the school without the benefit of being a phenomenal athlete there are loans and grants that can help them pay for their schooling.
That being said, as a member of the Millennial generation, I would like to apologize to the rest of you for my generation's overall undeserved sense of entitlement. Its embarrassing.

No you cannot charge them. The argumemt regarding majors isn't thoughtful or even a strong one. Millenials aren't the only entitled generation. Baby boomers are the worst. Millenials from the Edinas and Wayzatas of the world are the worst.

 

[Deleted_User]

I know this is a ridiculous argument but if in fact the universities are handcuffed into offering more compensation to these players based on the revenue they generate, couldn't the university demand that since many other sports operate deep into the red that their players pay money to the school to use the facilities and university resources? Obviously I am not supporting this as a viable argument or solution as it is absurd, but if the players' compensation is based on the money they generate then logically the university shouldn't be forced to offer compensation to sports who don't bring in money? I feel like Title IX supporters wouldn't like that too much. Speaking of which, does this mean that the university would also have to match this compensation in the women's athletics department.
In terms of players not being able to choose their majors, like many have said no one is holding a gun to their head. They can choose to be a student and hang up the cleats like 90% of other HS athletes do. The financial issue is irrelevant. If the player is truly smart enough to get into the school without the benefit of being a phenomenal athlete there are loans and grants that can help them pay for their schooling.
That being said, as a member of the Millennial generation, I would like to apologize to the rest of you for my generation's overall undeserved sense of entitlement. Its embarrassing.

A negotiation is a two sided affair. However, as an employee, there are laws protecting them from such devices as charging them for use of equipment, facilities, etc. An employee rents out their services in exchange for compensation. The company provides the equipment and space to do that work as it is in the companies interest to do so. It would be no different for the players.

 

[Deleted_User]

No you cannot charge them. The argumemt regarding majors isn't thoughtful or even a strong one. Millenials aren't the only entitled generation. Baby boomers are the worst. Millenials from the Edinas and Wayzatas of the world are the worst.

Silence, whippersnapper!

 

[Gopherguy0723]

Silence, whippersnapper!

My favorite part of the town to drive in is 50th and France and the Southdale area. Edina residents literally drive like they're entitled. It amuses me to no end to see how they operate on the road.

 

[Killjoy]

My favorite part of the town to drive in is 50th and France and the Southdale area. Edina residents literally drive like they're entitled. It amuses me to no end to see how they operate on the road.

LOL - Based on your remarks, you would fit in very well any place where people feel entitled and superior.

 

[Deleted_User]

My favorite part of the town to drive in is 50th and France and the Southdale area. Edina residents literally drive like they're entitled. It amuses me to no end to see how they operate on the road.

What? Do they have Edina license plates! How would you know where they live? Maybe they are from Savage or Sheboygan or Aimes.

 

[zman]

My favorite part of the town to drive in is 50th and France and the Southdale area. Edina residents literally drive like they're entitled. It amuses me to no end to see how they operate on the road.

All drivers around here suck.

How do I know? They won't get out of MY way.

 

[Gopherguy0723]

It was a joke.

 

[Killjoy]

It was a joke.

That explains all your posts.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

One thing needs to change, without question; the Universities need to be more accountable to the athletes for the injuries they sustain while playing for the school. It's ridiculous that they aren't more responsible for taking care of those injuries past their playing days, if the effects warrant attention.

Past that, this is all bull****. It's a conscious choice that is being made. Period. There are plenty of us on the board who played collegiate athletics and managed to meet the demands of these schedules. We made sacrifices that others didn't have to make. We took the minimum course load during the season, and sometimes even in the offseason due to spring ball, etc. For me that meant being in school a lot longer than I planned and eventually ended up taking out student loans when the scholarship money dried up.

But it was a CHOICE that I made and I wouldn't change ONE SINGLE MINUTE of it for the experiences of playing. Wouldn't even think about it.

Lastly, regarding compensation: a few have somewhat alluded to it but what many don't acknowledge is the benefits that are reaped long after playing days, like getting selected for JOBS, CAREERS over people who aren't as recognizable, just because they played a sport. Athletes get preferential treatment in many, many different ways. I know a number of players I went to school with who weren't on scholarship, but they got the Work Study jobs that either didn't require them being actually PRESENT, or were the best of best jobs, very little work, etc. There are ways to take care of them.

 

[UpnorthGo4]

One thing needs to change, without question; the Universities need to be more accountable to the athletes for the injuries they sustain while playing for the school. It's ridiculous that they aren't more responsible for taking care of those injuries past their playing days, if the effects warrant attention.

This issue alone is going to change college football in ways nobody can foresee. The rest of it is a sideshow. The ability of college athletes to choose their degree isn't even in the top 10 of reasons why this behind the unionization of college athletes.

The following mission and goals are from the the National College Players Association (NCPA) website:

1. Minimize college athletes’ brain trauma risks.

Despite record revenues, the NCAA and conferences have done little to reduce the risks of brain trauma among college athletes.

2. Raise the scholarship amount.

The NCAA admits that a "full scholarship" does not cover the basic necessities for a college athlete, but it refuses to change its rules to allow schools to provide more scholarship money.

3. Prevent players from being stuck paying sports-related medical expenses.

The NCAA does not require schools to cover sports-related injuries – it's optional. College athletes injured during sports-related workouts should not have to pay for medical expenses out of their own pockets.

4. Increase graduation rates.

The ultimate goal for a college athlete is not a scholarship, it's a degree. Federal graduation rates for Division I football and men's basketball players hover around 50%. The NCAA and its member colleges should invest a portion of new TV revenue into continuing education to improve graduation rates. In addition, the NCAA should work to reduce games that take place during the week. Although weekday games are in the interest of the TV networks, they hurt college athletes academically.

5. Protect educational opportunities for student-athletes in good standing.

If a coach eliminates the scholarship of a student-athlete that abides by academic, athletic, and conduct requirements, the athletic program should replace it with a non-athletic scholarship to allow the student-athletes to continue his/her education.

6. Prohibit universities from using a permanent injury suffered during athletics as a reason to reduce/eliminate a scholarship.

Such actions reduce the chance for such college athletes to graduate. College athletes put their bodies and lives on the line in their pursuit of higher education and the success of their university's athletic program. It is immoral to allow a university to reduce or refuse to renew a college athlete's scholarship after sustaining an injury while playing for the university.

7. Establish and enforce uniform safety guidelines in all sports to help prevent serious injuries and avoidable deaths.

Several deaths in the college football off-season have highlighted the need for year round safety requirements that provide an adequate level of protections for college athletes from all sports. College athletes and athletic staff should be given the means to anonymously report breaches in such safety requirements.

8. Eliminate restrictions on legitimate employment and players ability to directly benefit from commercial opportunities.

College athletes should have the same rights to secure employment and generate commercial revenue as other students and US citizens. Such a measure could be designed to increase graduation rates and allow universities to retain the most talented athletes for the duration of their eligibility.

9. Prohibit the punishment of college athletes that have not committed a violation.

It is an injustice to punish college athletes for actions that they did not commit i.e. suspending a team's post-season eligibility for the inappropriate actions of boosters. Such punishments have significant negative impacts on the short college experience of many college athletes. Alternative forms of punishment are available and should be utilized to allow an adequate policing of the rules.

10. Guarantee that college athletes are granted an athletic release from their university if they wish to transfer schools.

Schools should not have the power to refuse to release college athletes that choose to transfer. Under NCAA rules, players that transfer without a release not only have to sit out a year, they cannot receive an athletic scholarship for a year. This contradicts the educational mission and principle of sportsmanship that the NCAA is supposed to uphold.

http://www.ncpanow.org/about/mission-goals

 

[zman]

This issue alone is going to change college football in ways nobody can foresee. The rest of it is a sideshow. The ability of college athletes to choose their degree isn't even in the top 10 of reasons why this behind the unionization of college athletes.

The following mission and goals are from the the National College Players Association (NCPA) website:

http://www.ncpanow.org/about/mission-goals[/I]

They seem like reasonable goals to me.

 

[UpnorthGo4]

They seem like reasonable goals to me.

The reason they are not already in place is because the people who run and profit from intercollegiate athletics are unreasonable.

 

[Gopherguy0723]

The reason they are not already in place is because the people who run and profit from intercollegiate athletics are unreasonable.

It is a travesty if people don't find almost the entire list reasonable and demand that the issues be addressed immediately.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

10. Guarantee that college athletes are granted an athletic release from their university if they wish to transfer schools.

Schools should not have the power to refuse to release college athletes that choose to transfer. Under NCAA rules, players that transfer without a release not only have to sit out a year, they cannot receive an athletic scholarship for a year. This contradicts the educational mission and principle of sportsmanship that the NCAA is supposed to uphold.

http://www.ncpanow.org/about/mission-goals[/I]

Absolutely, positively, 100% unequivocally CANNOT happen. A complete f'n circus will ensue. The issues this would cause are too many to list.

 

[UpnorthGo4]

.

 

[UpnorthGo4]

10. Guarantee that college athletes are granted an athletic release from their university if they wish to transfer schools.

Ogee Quote: Absolutely, positively, 100% unequivocally CANNOT happen. A complete f'n circus will ensue. The issues this would cause are too many to list.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Based on your response I assume you agree with the other 9 goals. They should make you an honorary member of the NCPA union. Wecome to the wonderful world of collective bargaining - an American tradition for over 75 years.

 

[highwayman]

I tend to agree with this. I know that a lot of you probably know what the life of Gopher football player is like. As a grad student I saw what the life of South Carolina football players. During the season a player's schedule was something like:
5:00 a.m. lift
6:30 breakfast
7:15 study hall
8:30 class

2:30 taping
3:00 practice
6:00 dinner
7:00 film or study hall

I don't see any of those NCAA commercials showing athletes lifting long before the sun comes up. IMHO the demands on college athletes (esp time demands) are over the top.

You can't count eating or studying. So, they are working 5-7 hours a day and going to school. Sounds like most of my friends in college.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

My thoughts in bold

This issue alone is going to change college football in ways nobody can foresee. The rest of it is a sideshow. The ability of college athletes to choose their degree isn't even in the top 10 of reasons why this behind the unionization of college athletes.

The following mission and goals are from the the National College Players Association (NCPA) website:

1. Minimize college athletes’ brain trauma risks.

Despite record revenues, the NCAA and conferences have done little to reduce the risks of brain trauma among college

How? Easier said than done. Flag football? No helmets?

2. Raise the scholarship amount.

The NCAA admits that a "full scholarship" does not cover the basic necessities for a college athlete, but it refuses to change its rules to allow schools to provide more scholarship money.


I have no problem with this. Seems like an amount could be decided on and adjusted for cost of living and inflation. Spread the wealth out of the absurd coaching salary and "facilities" arms race or institute nfl-like parity reforms Institute profit-sharing amongst teams/universities, like the nfl owners having to spread the wealth. Love ya Jerry Jones.



3. Prevent players from being stuck paying sports-related medical expenses.

The NCAA does not require schools to cover sports-related injuries – it's optional. College athletes injured during sports-related workouts should not have to pay for medical expenses out of their own pockets.


There is no excuse for not having health insurance. It's dirt cheap for young adults. Under Obama care pre-existing conditions are not disqualifying. Civilized states have expanded medicaid for the truly indigent. Nobody needs to go without health insurance. Most big schools provide insurance for their student athletes while they are in school, no?

4. Increase graduation rates.

The ultimate goal for a college athlete is not a scholarship, it's a degree. Federal graduation rates for Division I football and men's basketball players hover around 50%. The NCAA and its member colleges should invest a portion of new TV revenue into continuing education to improve graduation rates. In addition, the NCAA should work to reduce games that take place during the week. Although weekday games are in the interest of the TV networks, they hurt college athletes academically.


Many students hold jobs, have kids, sick parents, or other obligations. Deal with it. A horse can only be led to water.

5. Protect educational opportunities for student-athletes in good standing.

If a coach eliminates the scholarship of a student-athlete that abides by academic, athletic, and conduct requirements, the athletic program should replace it with a non-athletic scholarship to allow the student-athletes to continue his/her education.


Why? Most academic scholarships have conditions attached to them. Totally naive and entitled.

6. Prohibit universities from using a permanent injury suffered during athletics as a reason to reduce/eliminate a scholarship.

Such actions reduce the chance for such college athletes to graduate. College athletes put their bodies and lives on the line in their pursuit of higher education and the success of their university's athletic program. It is immoral to allow a university to reduce or refuse to renew a college athlete's scholarship after sustaining an injury while playing for the university.


i think most universities already do this. If not, seems like it could be a good recruiting tool.

7. Establish and enforce uniform safety guidelines in all sports to help prevent serious injuries and avoidable deaths.

Several deaths in the college football off-season have highlighted the need for year round safety requirements that provide an adequate level of protections for college athletes from all sports. College athletes and athletic staff should be given the means to anonymously report breaches in such safety requirements.


ok...define the level of risk. Risk cannot be totally eliminated. Didn't you agree to play sports? And sports have known risks. Perhaps an informed consent course for the totally naive.

8. Eliminate restrictions on legitimate employment and players ability to directly benefit from commercial opportunities.

College athletes should have the same rights to secure employment and generate commercial revenue as other students and US citizens. Such a measure could be designed to increase graduation rates and allow universities to retain the most talented athletes for the duration of their eligibility.


This would be a situation totally ripe for corruption and skulduggery and abuse. I'd rather just have the scholly stipend raised nation-wide.

9. Prohibit the punishment of college athletes that have not committed a violation.

It is an injustice to punish college athletes for actions that they did not commit i.e. suspending a team's post-season eligibility for the inappropriate actions of boosters. Such punishments have significant negative impacts on the short college experience of many college athletes. Alternative forms of punishment are available and should be utilized to allow an adequate policing of the rules.


It sucks but it's a basic form of discipline. It turns everyone into a cop. One can argue the punishment but not the method IMHO.

10. Guarantee that college athletes are granted an athletic release from their university if they wish to transfer schools.

Schools should not have the power to refuse to release college athletes that choose to transfer. Under NCAA rules, players that transfer without a release not only have to sit out a year, they cannot receive an athletic scholarship for a year. This contradicts the educational mission and principle of sportsmanship that the NCAA is supposed to uphold.


I'm torn on this one. Perhaps it should depend on who is firing who, and perhaps there needs to be sufficient notice given, eg 4-8 weeks before NSD.

http://www.ncpanow.org/about/mission-goals

 

[pregameatblarneys]

This issue alone is going to change college football in ways nobody can foresee. The rest of it is a sideshow. The ability of college athletes to choose their degree isn't even in the top 10 of reasons why this behind the unionization of college athletes.

The following mission and goals are from the the National College Players Association (NCPA) website:

...
8. Eliminate restrictions on legitimate employment and players ability to directly benefit from commercial opportunities.

College athletes should have the same rights to secure employment and generate commercial revenue as other students and US citizens. Such a measure could be designed to increase graduation rates and allow universities to retain the most talented athletes for the duration of their eligibility...."

If they already have a full-time "job" playing football, how will they have time to work elsewhere? As others have said, this will just invite boosters to pay players to do nothing other than attend their university of choice and play football for their favorite team. Increase the stipends, don't open up this can of worms.

 

[Gopherguy0723]

This issue alone is going to change college football in ways nobody can foresee. The rest of it is a sideshow. The ability of college athletes to choose their degree isn't even in the top 10 of reasons why this behind the unionization of college athletes.

The following mission and goals are from the the National College Players Association (NCPA) website:

...
8. Eliminate restrictions on legitimate employment and players ability to directly benefit from commercial opportunities.

College athletes should have the same rights to secure employment and generate commercial revenue as other students and US citizens. Such a measure could be designed to increase graduation rates and allow universities to retain the most talented athletes for the duration of their eligibility...."

If they already have a full-time "job" playing football, how will they have time to work elsewhere? As others have said, this will just invite boosters to pay players to do nothing other than attend their university of choice and play football for their favorite team. Increase the stipends, don't open up this can of worms.

Sorry, but you're wrong even if your heart is in the right place. The NCAA cannot control the right of someone to make money off of their name. All ther other 300+ million Americans can make money off of their name and likeness. Their is no legal or constitutional provision to exempt NCAA athletes. This is the worst kind of exploitation by the NCAA. It must stop. Thankfully, the courts aren't dumb enough to believe NCAA athletes are second class citizens with lesser rights than everyone else.

This is the NCAA's fault. Don't blame the players. The NCAA is the organization denying legal rights. The players are finally suing to regain what was rightfully theirs at birth.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Many organizations place limits on the type of profits their members or employees can earn. Eg tips are not allowed by many businesses. Illegal kickbacks, steerage, etc are frowned on both ethically and legally. Scientists, researchers, physicians that take industry money have a certain stigma attached to their work...that used to be a big no no. Now it's widespread which is a shame.

Unintended consequences!

There is a reason for the NCAA rules, like most rules. A simple example:you allow them to sell jerseys, recruits are aasured boosters at Alabama will buy X number of them if you'll just join us on NSD. The popular players by and large are going to the nfl. Just raise the stipend so they're comfortable. Not hard to do.

 

[Gopherguy0723]

Many organizations place limits on the type of profits their members or employees can earn. Eg tips are not allowed by many businesses. Illegal kickbacks, steerage, etc are frowned on both ethically and legally. Scientists, researchers, physicians that take industry money have a certain stigma attached to their work...that used to be a big no no. Now it's widespread which is a shame.

Unintended consequences!

There is a reason for the NCAA rules, like most rules. A simple example:you allow them to sell jerseys, recruits are aasured boosters at Alabama will buy X number of them if you'll just join us on NSD. The popular players by and large are going to the nfl. Just raise the stipend so they're comfortable. Not hard to do.

Yes they can, but only some. However, they cannot deny you the ability to profit off of your name and likeness. All streams of potential earnings by people are not equal under the law. Your name and likeness are protected by the 1st Amendment. Your analogy doesn't fit.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

IF they are successful as being classified as employees (their stated goal?) the lawyers will be busy. Didn't they say they were already too busy to graduate, yet now they're going to be running small PR or marketing businesses, dealing with lawyers etc etc? Do you think Coach Kill might have a problem with that?

Do employees have the right to moonlight
http://www.workforce.com/articles/do-employees-have-the-right-to-moonlight

http://www.beliveaulaw.net/2012/05/employers-and-workers-should-handle-moonlighting-with-care/


I think it's more likely NCAA will ban player-specific merchandise altogether or they could mandate x percent of each licensing deal goes into scholarship funds or whatever.

So they said they wanted to be employees huh? Heh heh