Athletes Cannot Choose Their Degrees

[denguegopher]

The NCAA should more strictly limit practice time. It's insane already. I would chop off 5 hours a week that a student can be in practice or even in the building.

I tend to agree with this. I know that a lot of you probably know what the life of Gopher football player is like. As a grad student I saw what the life of South Carolina football players. During the season a player's schedule was something like:
5:00 a.m. lift
6:30 breakfast
7:15 study hall
8:30 class

2:30 taping
3:00 practice
6:00 dinner
7:00 film or study hall

I don't see any of those NCAA commercials showing athletes lifting long before the sun comes up. IMHO the demands on college athletes (esp time demands) are over the top.

 

[Governor Sibley]

5:00 a.m. lift
6:30 breakfast
7:15 study hall
8:30 class

2:30 taping
3:00 practice
6:00 dinner
7:00 film or study hall

Exactly.

And this is bull$h*t.

 

[Governor Sibley]

There are scholarships and there are scholarships.

If my kid has a scholarship to Stanford or Notre Dame or Duke, I'd tell him to suffer through almost anything.

If he was slaving away to attend Kent State, I'd have a much different opinion.

 

[Indi1006]

I tend to agree with this. I know that a lot of you probably know what the life of Gopher football player is like. As a grad student I saw what the life of South Carolina football players. During the season a player's schedule was something like:
5:00 a.m. lift
6:30 breakfast
7:15 study hall
8:30 class

2:30 taping
3:00 practice
6:00 dinner
7:00 film or study hall

I don't see any of those NCAA commercials showing athletes lifting long before the sun comes up. IMHO the demands on college athletes (esp time demands) are over the top.

It's called making sacrifices in order to try and achieve the goal of being a D1 college football player who gets all the trappings that go along with it. Boo, hoo the fellas have to get up in the A.M. vs. sleeping in hung over, doing some frat activities, going to class maybe and then working at Hardee's until late at night to pay for their food plan.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

It's called making sacrifices in order to try and achieve the goal of being a D1 college football player who gets all the trappings that go along with it. Boo, hoo the fellas have to get up in the A.M. vs. sleeping in hung over, doing some frat activities, going to class maybe and then working at Hardee's until late at night to pay for their food plan.

If Colter can't play football and simultaneously maintain a good GPA he probably isn't med school material. Supposedly he carried a 3.2 GPA which isn't that impressive unless he had great test scores and it had better be in a "tough" major, eg engineering etc.

Like others on here I find it hard to believe there aren't multiple lower level classes available throughout the year.

The sooner he realizes life isn't fair the better off he'll be. He was given a great opportunity. He was free to leave at any time. End of story.

That is all.

 

[disco]

This sort of thing is no secret. The series of damning articles that came out a few years ago about the 2001 Washington team under Neuheisel talked quite a bit about the pressure to take easy classes and majors. Pretty sure Jim Harbaugh kind of trashed on his own alma mater Michigan for the same thing.

 

[Gopher028]

If he wanted to go to medical school, instead of inflicting with football practices, he could have quit the team. Whichever is most important to you? You have the choice...
NO ONE made him, including playing football for Northwestern, no one...

 

[Deleted_User]

J

Saying that Northwestern didn't let Kain Colter do what he wanted to is a bald-faced lie. (I'm not saying that you're saying that, I'm saying that the article is saying that, and the OP is most certainly saying that.) They are paying for his education, so they have a right to make suggestions. No one is saying he was forced to do or not do anything. If he went into Pat Fitzgerald's office and said, "I'm going pre-med," and then did it, what are they going to do? Kick him out of school? Rescind his scholarship? Please. What this all boils down to is that Kain Colter is an entitled twit who doesn't like people telling him what to do, even if that is merely a suggestion. The sooner that Kain Colter learns that people will be telling him what to do for the rest of his life, the better off he'll be.

Nope, he was forced or he would be breaking team rules. This is the fact as determined and ruled upon.

 

[Deleted_User]

“his coaches and advisors discouraged him from taking the course because it conflicted with morning football practices.”

I guess I'm missing why that is so terrible. It doesn't say they forced him to switch majors, Colter switched on his own just because of falling behind a little.

Jon Christenson is pre-med and making it work. Colter could've stuck with it if he truly wanted to be a pre-med major. Just because you're falling behind "non-athlete" students in terms of scheduling doesn't mean you have to scrap the major all together. Take the class a different semester, at a different time, or online. Getting your tuition paid for for being a football player means football is a large part of your responsibility as a student-athlete. Unless there's more to the story I don't have much sympathy for him.

Med school admissssions are very difficult. Falling behind your peers matters.

 

[Deleted_User]

Seriously? The kids and their parents know what is expected of them before they sign on the dotted line. No guns to heads, nothing bad will happen if they decide not play college football; in fact there are huge parties thrown at the kids' HS and probably at a majority of their home when they sign to celebrate the awesome chance they've been given to go to school free and play football and eat well while there and get tutors and live in the best housing, etc, etc, etc. There is a nice little thing called the MIAC where kids can go if they want to spend about 3 hours a day during the season and next to nothing during the off-season concentrating on football where they can take as many physics classes as they desire. It's really not that hard, these kids live a pretty darn good life with all the privileges they get by being on the football team. I know, I've been there. The only thing I feel sorry for the kids nowadays is the requirement that they have to spend all summer on campus. Back in the day, the summer after your senior year in HS was a time to enjoy one last hurrah with the buddies back home and then likely the first and maybe second year most players spent summers in their hometowns, too. Most juniors and seniors would stick around campus during summer. I don't like how the summer has morphed, but the rest of it for the most part these kids are living the really good life and again, I wish someone would just kick Colter in the nuts; or perhaps his dad for raising such a whiny litte sh@t.

Got hit a lot?

 

[Deleted_User]

Players should be allowed to market themselves and make money just the way any other college student on an academic scholarship is able to make money if the opportunity arises.

The changes should end there. No unions telling the schools when they can practice or any of that bologna. The NCAA is a joke, but that doesn't mean that fighting back by unionizing fixes the issue. It only compounds it.

Not unionizing compounds the problemss of the students.

 

[Gopherguy0723]

Not unionizing compounds the problemss of the students.

I think you made some very nice points. People either cannot see beyond their ox getting gored, or they're living some kind of social Darwinian fantasy that doesn't exist anywhere but in their heads.

 

[50PoundHead]

This sort of thing is no secret. The series of damning articles that came out a few years ago about the 2001 Washington team under Neuheisel talked quite a bit about the pressure to take easy classes and majors. Pretty sure Jim Harbaugh kind of trashed on his own alma mater Michigan for the same thing.

I think this does go on all the time.

No one here knows the exact situation and the sequence of courses necessary for Colter to have accomplished what he wanted academically. Northwestern is a decent-sized school, but that doesn't mean they can schedule all the pre-med courses in a way (offer more than once in an academic year, provide a summer course) that would accommodate Colter in his pursuit of the degree he sought.

But is that at the heart of the issue here from either side? I think not. But I think Colter shows that the widely-held (or at least widely-promoted) view of "these are student athletes" takes a hit here. Of course, that's not new at all.

 

[Rescooter]

I see some folks are continuing with the ludicrous argument that these athletes are "victims." Carry on, it makes for great entertainment.

I'm going to adopt this attitude as well. I see the name calling by the pro-unionization camp has already started. I've been accused of being Jason Lewis. Well, if I'm viewed as smart and articulate that can make a good argument, I'll wear that badge.

 

[MNGoldenGophers1]

I'm going to adopt this attitude as well. I see the name calling by the pro-unionization camp has already started. I've been accused of being Jason Lewis. Well, if I'm viewed as smart and articulate that can make a good argument, I'll wear that badge.

You're right, way right!. The GOP will stop this unionization thing before it ever gets going. Before you know it, the NCAA (National Conservatives Against Athletes) will have those greedy student-athletes playing games in Wal-Mart parking lots across the country as a reminder of where they'll be working after their playing days are over.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

You're right, way right!. The GOP will stop this unionization thing before it ever gets going. Before you know it, the NCAA (National Conservatives Against Athletes) will have those greedy student-athletes playing games in Wal-Mart parking lots across the country as a reminder of where they'll be working after their playing days are over.

If you're ever in a Walmart in Arkansas, there's about a 95% chance the employee checking you out played football for the Razorbacks.

 

[MNVCGUY]

I think this does go on all the time.

No one here knows the exact situation and the sequence of courses necessary for Colter to have accomplished what he wanted academically. Northwestern is a decent-sized school, but that doesn't mean they can schedule all the pre-med courses in a way (offer more than once in an academic year, provide a summer course) that would accommodate Colter in his pursuit of the degree he sought.

But is that at the heart of the issue here from either side? I think not. But I think Colter shows that the widely-held (or at least widely-promoted) view of "these are student athletes" takes a hit here. Of course, that's not new at all.

On the Colter situation I still come back to the simple fact that he is being given the scholarship to play football not go to med school. In a perfect world he can do both but if there are conflicts the program paying for him to be at the school in the first place should get to take priority. I am not trying to say that football should be more important than school but I also don't think the football program should be expected to bend over backwards to accommodate a class schedule that conflicts with the practice schedule because in the end they are the one footing the bill to have the kid in school. For Colter if Med school is that important to him and it can't coexist with football then relinquish your scholarship and figure out a way to pay for med school on your own, or transfer to a different school.

 

[Indi1006]

Got hit a lot?

Communist?

 

[Pompous Elitist]

On the Colter situation I still come back to the simple fact that he is being given the scholarship to play football not go to med school. In a perfect world he can do both but if there are conflicts the program paying for him to be at the school in the first place should get to take priority. I am not trying to say that football should be more important than school but I also don't think the football program should be expected to bend over backwards to accommodate a class schedule that conflicts with the practice schedule because in the end they are the one footing the bill to have the kid in school. For Colter if Med school is that important to him and it can't coexist with football then relinquish your scholarship and figure out a way to pay for med school on your own, or transfer to a different school.

You speak like Colter should show some personal responsibility...that's sarcasm folks. Spot on.

Looking a gift horse in the mouth. Maybe he should apply to dental school.

 

[UST82Gopher]

Players should be allowed to market themselves and make money just the way any other college student on an academic scholarship is able to make money if the opportunity arises.

Absolutely!! It would end all this nonsense. But it was the NCAA, in its zeal to control all aspects of collegiate athletics, that resulted in rules that treat student athletes far different than other students.

The NCAA could fix this in a heart beat. Or, they can lose in court. Either way, the genie is out of the bottle and college athletics is going to change - for the better i hope.

 

[UST82Gopher]

On the Colter situation I still come back to the simple fact that he is being given the scholarship to play football not go to med school. In a perfect world he can do both but if there are conflicts the program paying for him to be at the school in the first place should get to take priority. I am not trying to say that football should be more important than school but I also don't think the football program should be expected to bend over backwards to accommodate a class schedule that conflicts with the practice schedule because in the end they are the one footing the bill to have the kid in school. For Colter if Med school is that important to him and it can't coexist with football then relinquish your scholarship and figure out a way to pay for med school on your own, or transfer to a different school.

I think the point you miss is its just not up to the student - its has a LOT to do with the willingness and the flexibility of the coach.

I know student athletes who had very understanding coaches who came out of school with nursing, dental, engineering and accounting degrees. Those coaches bent enough to allow the students to get the classes in they needed. Caused a lot of them to miss certain off season training sessions - which they made up on their own time. Missed the occasional team meeting or meal. Maybe even missed a practice. But the students were committed to the team and kept their conflicts to a minimum. Coaches accepted that. If only it were the case in all situations.

But we all know, there are plenty of coaches who aren't going to be all that understanding. Who's to say how helpful NW was or was not.

 

[50PoundHead]

On the Colter situation I still come back to the simple fact that he is being given the scholarship to play football not go to med school. In a perfect world he can do both but if there are conflicts the program paying for him to be at the school in the first place should get to take priority. I am not trying to say that football should be more important than school but I also don't think the football program should be expected to bend over backwards to accommodate a class schedule that conflicts with the practice schedule because in the end they are the one footing the bill to have the kid in school. For Colter if Med school is that important to him and it can't coexist with football then relinquish your scholarship and figure out a way to pay for med school on your own, or transfer to a different school.

That may be true, but if that's the case, let's just quit playing the student/athlete card and call college football what it is; semi-pro football.

 

[Unregistered User]

I've avoided this thread for a variety of reasons, but I came across this thread on www.reddit.com/r/cfb

The link is an AMA (Ask Me Anything), answered by this guy: "I'm Michael McCann. I write for Sports Illustrated as a legal analyst & teach sports law at the University of New Hampshire School of Law. Hope to answer your questions about Kain Colter and other sports law issues. AMA."

You have to wade through some stuff to find the interesting nuggets. Here's one for example:
Q: With the current composition of the national NLRB panel would you expect them to uphold the ruling or to reverse it?
A: Very hard to predict but this is a labor-friendly NLRB, and that bodes well for Colter. But if he wins, Northwestern would likely refuse to bargain with him, thus triggering an unfair labor practices claim and then we have a lawsuit. It would get to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit and odds would favor Northwestern at that point. Then it could get to the U.S. Supreme Court (always challenging to do, but the Court is inclined to take cases of this type of major importance) and I think Northwestern would be favored there as well.

I'm not taking sides with this selected outtake, it just appeared to one of the first comments with any meat on it.

 

[Gopherguy0723]

I've avoided this thread for a variety of reasons, but I came across this thread on www.reddit.com/r/cfb

The link is an AMA (Ask Me Anything), answered by this guy: "I'm Michael McCann. I write for Sports Illustrated as a legal analyst & teach sports law at the University of New Hampshire School of Law. Hope to answer your questions about Kain Colter and other sports law issues. AMA."

You have to wade through some stuff to find the interesting nuggets. Here's one for example:
Q: With the current composition of the national NLRB panel would you expect them to uphold the ruling or to reverse it?
A: Very hard to predict but this is a labor-friendly NLRB, and that bodes well for Colter. But if he wins, Northwestern would likely refuse to bargain with him, thus triggering an unfair labor practices claim and then we have a lawsuit. It would get to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit and odds would favor Northwestern at that point. Then it could get to the U.S. Supreme Court (always challenging to do, but the Court is inclined to take cases of this type of major importance) and I think Northwestern would be favored there as well.

I'm not taking sides with this selected outtake, it just appeared to one of the first comments with any meat on it.

I believe everything he says up until his take on SCOTUS. The Roberts court has been the most pro business Court in the history of the United States. In fact, one of the biggest criticisms of the Court concerns the parties and outcomes. Under Roberts' rule, a lay person can determine who will prevail by looking at the parties when it comes to interests of business. All you have to do is choose the party who is the bigger business, and you're likely to be correct to the effect of about 90% of the time or more.

 

[highwayman]

When Colter graduates or is no longer on scholarship, the school seperates from him. They have no obligation to "negotiate" with him. The bond is broken. It would be like an employee bargaining a contract after they went to another employer.

Also, is a school responsible to build their class schedules around every student and every athlete's schedule and major choice? Not even remotely. Nearly ludicrous.

 

[UpnorthGo4]

When Colter graduates or is no longer on scholarship, the school seperates from him. They have no obligation to "negotiate" with him. The bond is broken. It would be like an employee bargaining a contract after they went to another employer.

Northwestern and all of the other schools where this is going to happen won't be negotiating with senior athletes who are about to graduate. They will be dealing with incoming Freshman and Sophomores who will have lots of options for going to other schools if they don't like how they are being treated.

Having options to go somewhere else for a better deal is the hallmark of a free society. Baseball fans hate Curt Flood because of what his lawsuit did for free agency in MLB in the same way college football fans are going to hate Kain Colter for what he is doing for college athletes. It's coming and the NCAA and all their lawyers are not going to be able to stop it.

 

[dpodoll68]

Having options to go somewhere else for a better deal is the hallmark of a free society.

If a player has other good options, he's free to take them. If a player only has one scholarship offer, to School X, that's not School X's fault that the player has no other good options.

Baseball fans hate Curt Flood because of what his lawsuit did for free agency in MLB in the same way they are going to hate Kain Colter for what he is doing for college athletes.

The difference is that Curt Flood was an employee.

 

[Lakeville Goldy]

Northwestern and all of the other schools where this is going to happen won't be negotiating with senior athletes who are about to graduate. They will be dealing with incoming Freshman and Sophomores who will have lots of options for going to other schools if they don't like how they are being treated.

Having options to go somewhere else for a better deal is the hallmark of a free society. Baseball fans hate Curt Flood because of what his lawsuit did for free agency in MLB in the same way they are going to hate Kain Colter for what he is doing for college athletes. It's coming and the NCAA and all their lawyers are not going to be able to stop it.

I disagree with the bolded part. Northwestern doesn't get to pick the negotiators - the players do. The team once it votes to unionize can choose anyone whether they are an "employee" or not. It won't be Northwestern's choice and will almost certainly include seniors and maybe past players.

One other thing that will be interesting. NLRB could rule in favor of Colter, et al. Northwestern could choose to not challenge and negotiate with the players and give them whatever they want. But the NCAA could rule the players ineligible due to improper compensation. Nowhere is it written that the NCAA has to accept whatever Northwestern negotiates.

Honestly, with all the different angles, this thing could go on until well after newborns are graduated with appeals and SCOTUS challenges. Heck, how long has the O'Bannon lawsuit been going and that is still in the initial phase.

 

[Deleted_User]

I disagree with the bolded part. Northwestern doesn't get to pick the negotiators - the players do. The team once it votes to unionize can choose anyone whether they are an "employee" or not. It won't be Northwestern's choice and will almost certainly include seniors and maybe past players.

One other thing that will be interesting. NLRB could rule in favor of Colter, et al. Northwestern could choose to not challenge and negotiate with the players and give them whatever they want. But the NCAA could rule the players ineligible due to improper compensation. Nowhere is it written that the NCAA has to accept whatever Northwestern negotiates.

Honestly, with all the different angles, this thing could go on until well after newborns are graduated with appeals and SCOTUS challenges. Heck, how long has the O'Bannon lawsuit been going and that is still in the initial phase.

There are rules in place that suggest outside interests may not interfere with an election or the negotiations between parties. The NCAA would have a major problem on their hands for interference.

 

[Halsey Hall]

Someone needs to kick Colter in the nuts. Nobody held a gun to his head to play football for starters he could have not played and then taken whatever classes he wanted to; of course on his dime. Second, just because he was falling behind doesn't mean he couldn't have caught up when his football career was over by going another year or half a year to get it done. Some kids who have jobs I'm sure conflict with what classes they need to take and that delays them, too. I find his whole schtick very tiresome.

These poor babies are given free education with books, fees, tuition, room and board paid for. They get free tutoring, a chance to play a wonderful sport before adoring fans, and they make great connections. Now, like the pampered pro athletes, this isn't enough. I AM SICK OF IT