Any Downside to Demoting or Releasing Sanford Jr?

If I am in his shoes, I give primary responsibility to Simon. Nobody outside the coaching ranks needs to be made aware of it until after the Iowa game. See how it goes.
I just don't think that's practical. The QB room, at least, will know immediately. Word will get out to players quickly.

That is if Sanford actually agrees to be "defacto fired" from playcalling. That's a big ego hit to take.

Potential for things to get pretty toxic in the coaching office.
 

So, all the angst against Sanford feels like to me it's just finding a scapegoat. I'm sure there is plenty of game planning and play calling by Simon, Fleck et al.

Plenty of blame to go around. Also plenty of football minds to correct the issues in time to reach some lofty goals this season.
 

For as bad as that game was you are not firing your offensive coordinator while your team is in contention to win its division.
 


So, all the angst against Sanford feels like to me it's just finding a scapegoat. I'm sure there is plenty of game planning and play calling by Simon, Fleck et al.

Plenty of blame to go around. Also plenty of football minds to correct the issues in time to reach some lofty goals this season.
You're correct. There's plenty of blame to go around. However if you're in line to be promoted why goes out of your way to save your incompetent boss. Sometimes smart people let things run its due course. Do you think Rossi was so dumb when Robb Smith was here? That's what I like about Rossi. He let it play out and was ready when his name was called. We don't need nice choir boys to have successful organizations. Competent ones. They are getting paid big boy money to do the work. It is business end of the day. What makes you believe that Sanford is receptive to Simon's ideas?
 



Sanford isn't going to get sacked because the offense simply isn't bad enough yet.

The Gophers have scored over 30 points in 6 of 9 games this season, and that's with 1 defensive TD, no special teams TDs, the fewest INTs in the Big Ten, low % FG kicking, and a slow offensive tempo. This is while down to the 4th/5th string RB. It could be far worse.

The problem for the Gophers in 2021 has been more acute than "the offense is bad", and it's been mostly confined to 2 games. There's something that BG and Illinois did to exploit our OL and passing scheme/protection that needs to be fixed. Otherwise, the Gophers have been pretty competent on O this season.

After the season? Let's do something. But don't count on an outrage move right now.
On the surface, in the majority of games the total points scored hasn't been the issue. I would argue it's HOW they score the points that needs to be examined. They have a very experienced OL, and even down to RB5 and RB6, our RB's are honestly still on par or better than a good chunk of the B1G. Lining up and continually running into 8+ man boxes doesn't scream smart OC to me. This is essentially how they've been successful - they've imposed their will against weaker teams, no matter how much they sell out to stop the run. In the instances where our experienced OL has a garbage game (BGSU, ILL), our battleship is sunk because we have no ability to pivot in-game.
 


Right.

What I just can't fathom is: why didn't Purdue, Nebraska, Maryland, and Northwestern just do exactly the same thing????

What was Bert able to see, that none of those four could figure out?? Bert!!! :ROFLMAO:
Your assumption is college football coaches are always competent and/or not stubborn. Is that a safe assumption? I don’t think it is.
 



We would be without a QB coach and someone would have to pull double duty. However, that might be a positive as there is no evidence Sanford’s QB coaching has helped.
Quarterback coaching is developmental work in spring and fall camps. Nothing going on now except with Athan. Doubt Sanford has any time for it during week of game prep.
 

Sanford isn't going to get sacked because the offense simply isn't bad enough yet.

The Gophers have scored over 30 points in 6 of 9 games this season, and that's with 1 defensive TD, no special teams TDs, the fewest INTs in the Big Ten, low % FG kicking, and a slow offensive tempo. This is while down to the 4th/5th string RB. It could be far worse.

The problem for the Gophers in 2021 has been more acute than "the offense is bad", and it's been mostly confined to 2 games. There's something that BG and Illinois did to exploit our OL and passing scheme/protection that needs to be fixed. Otherwise, the Gophers have been pretty competent on O this season.

After the season? Let's do something. But don't count on an outrage move right now.
Yeah. He has called two really bad games.

there is no downside to anything ever if you think the next thing will automatically be better
 

If I am in his shoes, I give primary responsibility to Simon. Nobody outside the coaching ranks needs to be made aware of it until after the Iowa game. See how it goes. The one game sample we have of Simon turned out pretty well (Auburn). Maybe that would be a boost for Tanner, going back to that creativity and guy that helped him kill it in the Outback Bowl.

Something is just off with this offense. Maybe Sanford is an offensive genious but his schemes are so advanced as to not be practical. I believe that was one of the complaints leveled at Robb Smith, and using the exact same personnel, Rossi turned it around literally overnight by simplifying things and letting guys make plays.
Everyone always says Simon yet he has no OC job when he undoubtedly could’ve had one outside the program if he wanted one. So my question is, does Simon want an OC job right now?
 

Everyone always says Simon yet he has no OC job when he undoubtedly could’ve had one outside the program if he wanted one. So my question is, does Simon want an OC job right now?
What young coach doesn't want promotion. They are all trying to climb the ladder.
 



How about co-offensive coordinators for the rest of the season and wait on the hiring/firing decisions until the season is done. I think the Gophers actually did that once.

What's P.J.'s number? I need to call him about this idea ASAP.
 

Everyone always says Simon yet he has no OC job when he undoubtedly could’ve had one outside the program if he wanted one. So my question is, does Simon want an OC job right now?
My sources say Simon wanted the OC job last time around.
 

My sources say Simon wanted the OC job last time around.
Then why is he still here?
If that is the case I think it’s a lot easier to get rid of Sanford
 

What young coach doesn't want promotion. They are all trying to climb the ladder.
I’m assuming Sanford has turned down OC jobs outside the program OR hasn’t sought them out

Brent venables
Norm Parker
Etc

a lot of coaches reach a place they are comfortable and stay there.
not saying that is the case with Simon but there are literally thousands of position coaches at the college level across the country and a bunch of them don’t wNt to be coordinators
 

So, all the angst against Sanford feels like to me it's just finding a scapegoat. I'm sure there is plenty of game planning and play calling by Simon, Fleck et al.

Plenty of blame to go around. Also plenty of football minds to correct the issues in time to reach some lofty goals this season.
Yes, the play calling frustrated me and pissed me off; but you've also got to look at the players, especially the offensive line. Both for the Bowling Green game and for Illinois the whole team came out flat. After the first quarter of both games, you could sense trouble. The defense finally got aggressive and Gibbens had that great series where he stopped the play three times in a row. That lit a fire for the defense against Illinois. Nothing like that happened for the offense.

Agree that we kept doing the same thing over and over. As flat as we were, I'm not sure what you go to. Morgan was a mess. The receivers did him no favors. The line had little push and I don't care what their grades were. Way too often one of them would get beat and the whole play went no where. Irving especially wasn't hitting the hole.

As much of a fan as I am of PJ, the main blame goes to him. They were not ready to play either game. Look at all the goofy results in the BIG. It's an emotional game, and we had no emotion.
 

I’m assuming Sanford has turned down OC jobs outside the program OR hasn’t sought them out

Brent venables
Norm Parker
Etc

a lot of coaches reach a place they are comfortable and stay there.
not saying that is the case with Simon but there are literally thousands of position coaches at the college level across the country and a bunch of them don’t wNt to be coordinators
Older ones maybe if they were not promoted much. But young guys mostly aspire to be head coaches some day and coordinator gives them their best shot.
 

Yes, the play calling frustrated me and pissed me off; but you've also got to look at the players, especially the offensive line. Both for the Bowling Green game and for Illinois the whole team came out flat. After the first quarter of both games, you could sense trouble. The defense finally got aggressive and Gibbens had that great series where he stopped the play three times in a row. That lit a fire for the defense against Illinois. Nothing like that happened for the offense.

Agree that we kept doing the same thing over and over. As flat as we were, I'm not sure what you go to. Morgan was a mess. The receivers did him no favors. The line had little push and I don't care what their grades were. Way too often one of them would get beat and the whole play went no where. Irving especially wasn't hitting the hole.

As much of a fan as I am of PJ, the main blame goes to him. They were not ready to play either game. Look at all the goofy results in the BIG. It's an emotional game, and we had no emotion.
Bucky doesn't seem to like a small crease..he'd rather bounce it outside and use his speed. Ky is the No. 1 back. He will run the play and fight for yards. Good to have both.
 

Older ones maybe if they were not promoted much. But young guys mostly aspire to be head coaches some day and coordinator gives them their best shot.
Venables has been turning down head coaching opportunities for 20 years. Since he was a 30 year old DC for national champ Oklahoma.
Not everyone wants to be a head coach or a coordinator.
 

So, all the angst against Sanford feels like to me it's just finding a scapegoat. I'm sure there is plenty of game planning and play calling by Simon, Fleck et al.

Plenty of blame to go around. Also plenty of football minds to correct the issues in time to reach some lofty goals this season.

That's the thing, PJ Fleck has his reputation as a boss to think about here. If he cans the OC for the team having a slow offensive game (against a team that held Purdue to 13 and Penn State to 18 in 9 overtimes) after a 4 game win streak, that can get him branded as a bad guy to work for.

If I were a candidate and saw the OC get fired on a winning team that just scored 41 points in the prior game and possessed the ball for over 40 minutes, on the road against the defending division champs...that might have me thinking that my failures far outweigh my successes, and who with choices wants to work in that environment?

I'm no Sanford cheerleader, but an outrage firing mid season is foolish.
 

That's the thing, PJ Fleck has his reputation as a boss to think about here. If he cans the OC for the team having a slow offensive game (against a team that held Purdue to 13 and Penn State to 18 in 9 overtimes) after a 4 game win streak, that can get him branded as a bad guy to work for.

If I were a candidate and saw the OC get fired on a winning team that just scored 41 points in the prior game and possessed the ball for over 40 minutes, on the road against the defending division champs...that might have me thinking that my failures far outweigh my successes, and who with choices wants to work in that environment?

I'm no Sanford cheerleader, but an outrage firing mid season is foolish.
This is a good take:
I’d be okay if fleck fired him but I think those saying it “has to happen” are a little anger blinded right now
 

That's the thing, PJ Fleck has his reputation as a boss to think about here. If he cans the OC for the team having a slow offensive game (against a team that held Purdue to 13 and Penn State to 18 in 9 overtimes) after a 4 game win streak, that can get him branded as a bad guy to work for.

If I were a candidate and saw the OC get fired on a winning team that just scored 41 points in the prior game and possessed the ball for over 40 minutes, on the road against the defending division champs...that might have me thinking that my failures far outweigh my successes, and who with choices wants to work in that environment?

I'm no Sanford cheerleader, but an outrage firing mid season is foolish.

I don’t think any decent OC would look at the two really poor performances this season and wonder why a change was made.

Definition of insanity applies here.
 

That's the thing, PJ Fleck has his reputation as a boss to think about here. If he cans the OC for the team having a slow offensive game (against a team that held Purdue to 13 and Penn State to 18 in 9 overtimes) after a 4 game win streak, that can get him branded as a bad guy to work for.

If I were a candidate and saw the OC get fired on a winning team that just scored 41 points in the prior game and possessed the ball for over 40 minutes, on the road against the defending division champs...that might have me thinking that my failures far outweigh my successes, and who with choices wants to work in that environment?

I'm no Sanford cheerleader, but an outrage firing mid season is foolish.
The argument I'd make against this is that you now have home losses in year 5 to both Bowling Green (3-6 MAC team) and Illinois (Under a 1st year head coach, 3-6). The losses are due to an inability to score points.

I would prefer coaches that dig a little deeper than just looking at wins and losses. Have to look at how/why we're winning and how/why we're losing.

I still agree changes likely will come after the season. But I'd be impressed if PJ made changes now when we've got a solid chance to get a West title here. I don't think I can point to a game under Sanford where I thought he called a great game. Not this year or last. Our big offensive outputs mainly have just come from our O-Line overpowering weaker teams. Seems unlikely against UW and IA to win that way.
 

It's clearly the Gophers Chrysophobia, or fear of the color orange. (not the fear of Paul Chryst)

Another road game vs a black and gold team coming up!
Locksley wouldn't have been able to figure it out, but the other three, I was surprised.
 

If PJF wanted to rehabilitate Sanford's career, could he have made him an analyst? O la the Sabin Institute.
 

I don’t think any decent OC would look at the two really poor performances this season and wonder why a change was made.

Definition of insanity applies here.
it can happen to anyone, though.

  • Did the Packers fire the OC after week 1 when they got crushed 38-3?
    • 38-3 was also the score the Saints beat the Bucs last year by. The Bucs won the Super Bowl. Brady and the OC did not get fired.
  • Did the Bills fire the OC after they got 6 points against the Jags?
    • 6 points against the WORST team! OMG!
  • Did the Cowboys fire the OC after they fell behind 30-0 at home this weekend against Denver?
    • Did anyone call for Dak's benching after he started 8-24? The backup beat the Vikings last week...come on easy call!

These are all really successful pro offenses that laid massive turds out of nowhere. Football's a funny game, and it keeps the bookies in business.
 


it can happen to anyone, though.

  • Did the Packers fire the OC after week 1 when they got crushed 38-3?
    • 38-3 was also the score the Saints beat the Bucs last year by. The Bucs won the Super Bowl. Brady and the OC did not get fired.
  • Did the Bills fire the OC after they got 6 points against the Jags?
    • 6 points against the WORST team! OMG!
  • Did the Cowboys fire the OC after they fell behind 30-0 at home this weekend against Denver?
    • Did anyone call for Dak's benching after he started 8-24? The backup beat the Vikings last week...come on easy call!

These are all really successful pro offenses that laid massive turds out of nowhere. Football's a funny game, and it keeps the bookies in business.
I think you are being a little too generous here in the comparisons. It’s more than a one game tilt. We have the Covid season and this season so far and there are definitely flaws in his game calling and passing scheme. Now can he fix it? That’s the question. Examples above definitely show they can.
 




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