Anonymous U football player: Fleck more proactive than Kill/Claeys in accountability

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Bob_Loblaw said:
The majority of Minnesotans are dead wrong and so is this kid. Half of the players suspended and being thrown under the bus by the administration have been exonerated by the University, itself! It doesn't matter if kool-aid drinking ideologues refuse to admit that the process was absolute garbage. The players boycott was an astounding success and a bright spot in the entire ordeal. I get that is going to be over quite a few people's heads, but it doesn't make it wrong.

As to the actual subject matter of the article. That all sounds good. I guess more accountability is better than less. This article appears to be an obvious dig at a pretty clean program. It's not doing PJ Fleck any favors.
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I don't think he meant it as a dig towards JK or TC. Sometimes people take over a situation and simply do not realize the dangers that lie ahead, the infinite number of possibilities and ways that things could go wrong, possibly because they haven't had to deal with such issues in the past? So their not being proactive doesn't have to be seen as their being "bad" coaches, just that they were maybe a bit naïve or unaware?

I mean, when I listened to that Dennis Prager clip, I thanked my lucky stars that I grew up back when I did. I was shocked to learn how crazy things have gotten. I mean, I knew things were bad, but now a guy is always the wrong doer? and the woman is always the victim? and even giving a woman an unwanted kiss could get you kicked out of school, even if the girl wanted the kiss in the moment? I know each college is different than the next, but even so, I'm just pleased I'm not a 17 year old boy getting ready to go to college. I feel sorry for kids nowadays.


These kids are going to have to get signed and notorized documents, contracts between them and any woman they might be interested in, giving them permission to speak to them even and to simply ask if they want a kiss or whatever else, so as not to be accused after the fact of having sexually harassed or assaulted the woman. And if any of these guys ever want to do anything with a woman, they may need to consider abstaining from alcohol whenever women MIGHT come into contact with them IN ANY WAY, because even drunk texting is probably going to get some college students into trouble eventually?


I took a job once thinking nothing of it, and had NO CLUE that something negative could ever come of it. But something ALMOST happened. Thankfully I was smart and didn't let anything happen, but I got scared away from a career in that field because of it.

That is just the thing, so many of us just don't understand and can't relate to how crazy things have gotten, so its not like we have to blame Kill or TC for doing something wrong, they just didn't know or understand that what they were doing, wasn't enough. Fleck has the advantage of coming in AFTER something has raised the awareness.

So my impression of this player's comments are simply that they reflect that Fleck is doing what his predecessors simply didn't know they needed to do.
 

Fleck has two former players waiting trial for armed robbery.
Should his culture at WMU be judged on the actions of these two players ?

With some of us, there seems to be a double standard.
 

Johnny Olson said:
Fleck has two former players waiting trial for armed robbery.
Should his culture at WMU be judged on the actions of these two players ?

With some of us, there seems to be a double standard.
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"former players" ??? Meaning what? Are they former players only now that he has left WMU? Or are they "former" because they left WMU before allegedly committing this crime?

There is a saying when interpreting data/evidence, that there are 3 things you have to take into account, #1 being context, #2 being context and #3 being context.


So what is the context here? I would need more details before being willing to come to any kind of an opinion.
 

KillmeNow said:
"former players" ??? Meaning what? Are they former players only now that he has left WMU? Or are they "former" because they left WMU before allegedly committing this crime?

So what is the context here? I would need more details before being willing to come to any kind of an opinion.
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They were active players recruited by Fleck. He was completely responsible for them being at WMU.

http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2016/08/report_two_western_michigan_fo.html
 

Johnny Olson said:
Fleck has two former players waiting trial for armed robbery.
Should his culture at WMU be judged on the actions of these two players ?

With some of us, there seems to be a double standard.
Click to expand...

Elite robbers don't get caught... they clearly don't qualify.
 


nemo1107 said:
ConstantQuestionableGallinule


Post it as a picture and uncheck the box that says, "Retrieve remote file and reference locally." Should be able to work.
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Broken link...
 


KillmeNow said:
I don't think he meant it as a dig towards JK or TC. Sometimes people take over a situation and simply do not realize the dangers that lie ahead, the infinite number of possibilities and ways that things could go wrong, possibly because they haven't had to deal with such issues in the past? So their not being proactive doesn't have to be seen as their being "bad" coaches, just that they were maybe a bit naïve or unaware?

I mean, when I listened to that Dennis Prager clip, I thanked my lucky stars that I grew up back when I did. I was shocked to learn how crazy things have gotten. I mean, I knew things were bad, but now a guy is always the wrong doer? and the woman is always the victim? and even giving a woman an unwanted kiss could get you kicked out of school, even if the girl wanted the kiss in the moment? I know each college is different than the next, but even so, I'm just pleased I'm not a 17 year old boy getting ready to go to college. I feel sorry for kids nowadays.


These kids are going to have to get signed and notorized documents, contracts between them and any woman they might be interested in, giving them permission to speak to them even and to simply ask if they want a kiss or whatever else, so as not to be accused after the fact of having sexually harassed or assaulted the woman. And if any of these guys ever want to do anything with a woman, they may need to consider abstaining from alcohol whenever women MIGHT come into contact with them IN ANY WAY, because even drunk texting is probably going to get some college students into trouble eventually?


I took a job once thinking nothing of it, and had NO CLUE that something negative could ever come of it. But something ALMOST happened. Thankfully I was smart and didn't let anything happen, but I got scared away from a career in that field because of it.

That is just the thing, so many of us just don't understand and can't relate to how crazy things have gotten, so its not like we have to blame Kill or TC for doing something wrong, they just didn't know or understand that what they were doing, wasn't enough. Fleck has the advantage of coming in AFTER something has raised the awareness.

So my impression of this player's comments are simply that they reflect that Fleck is doing what his predecessors simply didn't know they needed to do.
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Wow. Between this post and you last one, you've somehow argued both sides and contradicted yourself. Only recruit Christians and have bible study to lessen the chances of allegations but then things have gotten so crazy now where any kind of sexual contact could be construed or later claimed as non-consensual...Hmmm. Are you saying celibacy for all athletes attending the U?
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I swear this place is getting worse you say one thing and suddenly you're a hater or a blind supporter or ... whatever the other person can take to an extreme and complain about.
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I tried to post a gif to respond to you post, but I can't figure out how to do it. Would've been a funny. Is their a tutorial on the GH post functions?
 





Tracey was content with being a coach in the B1G. Fleck practices what he preaches. He truly wants to be elite and I think he is going to take the Gopher program somewhere no recent grad has seen
 

Winnipegopher said:
They were active players recruited by Fleck. He was completely responsible for them being at WMU.

http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2016/08/report_two_western_michigan_fo.html
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Not the first time this has been posted or that it was posted after some Fleckster was preaching culture and coaches responsibility on all players actions. Truth is unless PJF was promoting armed robbery he was no more responsible for this than Claeys was the "incident" or that Brew was for the incident that happened on his watch. Too much for some to admit tho.


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West Fargo Gopher Fan said:
yup you are right. Thats why I reply with jokes and sarcasm when people hate on my comments. Or I just ignore them. Arguing in an online forum just isnt worth the energy. :)
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The inability on this site to allow someone to like TC & PJF is quite amazing. I like them both but have been labeled a PJF hater because I don't like him enough, or every thing about him. Make a couple comments about his abundance of offers and next thing you know people claim you don't think we should ever offer a 4-Star and that you claimed recruit A, B, and C wouldn't visit. Hard not to get sucked in to pissing matches sometimes when that is the approach.

I've been here a while and GH is at a low point right now as far as hostility towards others goes. Usually a good place for sarcasm to shine, but even that not so much lately. TBH, I think the 9/2 incident is the main reason. Strong story with strong opinions and it got a little too serious in here. I'm guessing things will get back to normal when Spring Ball starts up.


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Spoofin said:
The inability on this site to allow someone to like TC & PJF is quite amazing. I like them both but have been labeled a PJF hater because I don't like him enough, or every thing about him. Make a couple comments about his abundance of offers and next thing you know people claim you don't think we should ever offer a 4-Star and that you claimed recruit A, B, and C wouldn't visit. Hard not to get sucked in to pissing matches sometimes when that is the approach.

I've been here a while and GH is at a low point right now as far as hostility towards others goes. Usually a good place for sarcasm to shine, but even that not so much lately. TBH, I think the 9/2 incident is the main reason. Strong story with strong opinions and it got a little too serious in here. I'm guessing things will get back to normal when Spring Ball starts up.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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It's a little disingenuous to decry the tone and demeanor of this forum when you have disparaged, demeaned, and name called others that disagree with your opinion. Maybe it wouldn't be a "pissing match" if you had respect for other peoples' opinions.
I get your main shtick Spoofin, have a little fun with sarcasm, have a chuckle, but on occasions, you've crossed the line into what I referenced above. You're definitely not alone and not close to the worst on this.
But I find it amazing that you now talk about it being a "low point...hostility towards others". SMH
Before I posted much, which has really only been recently in the few years since I started following GH, I laughed at many of your posts. I'm not condemning you as much as I am trying to make an observation about the conduct of this forum.
Most posters here are respectful and can respectfully disagree. I am all for continued debate on issues. If you and others truly wish the tone of this forum to be more positive and civil, then each one of us can accomplish that by respecting others opinions and drop the insults, no matter how stupid some think the others' opinions are.
I would never have brought this up except as a response to your post.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
It's a little disingenuous to decry the tone and demeanor of this forum when you have disparaged, demeaned, and name called others that disagree with your opinion. Maybe it wouldn't be a "pissing match" if you had respect for other peoples' opinions.
I get your main shtick Spoofin, have a little fun with sarcasm, have a chuckle, but on occasions, you've crossed the line into what I referenced above. You're definitely not alone and not close to the worst on this.
But I find it amazing that you now talk about it being a "low point...hostility towards others". SMH
Before I posted much, which has really only been recently in the few years since I started following GH, I laughed at many of your posts. I'm not condemning you as much as I am trying to make an observation about the conduct of this forum.
Most posters here are respectful and can respectfully disagree. I am all for continued debate on issues. If you and others truly wish the tone of this forum to be more positive and civil, then each one of us can accomplish that by respecting others opinions and drop the insults, no matter how stupid some think the others' opinions are.
I would never have brought this up except as a response to your post.
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Did I not include myself? Yeah, I poke a lot. My point was folks are less tolerant than they used to be on that - me included.


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Spoofin said:
Did I not include myself? Yeah, I poke a lot. My point was folks are less tolerant than they used to be on that - me included.
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I'm not sure saying you get sucked into a pissing match is a confession, but I'll take you at your word.
I'm probably not likely to continue posting as frequently as I have recently, but I really like to debate issues as long as the exchange is respectful.
I think the forum users must be the primary enforcers of decorum on this forum. If someone calls somebody a name or disparages another poster with junvenile comments, I think others should call them on it.
I can honestly say I've never called someone an idiot on this forum, and there's nothing about that that deserves a pat on the back. It's just having some respect. Not that hard.
 

KillerGopherFan said:
I'm not sure saying you get sucked into a pissing match is a confession, but I'll take you at your word.
I'm probably not likely to continue posting as frequently as I have recently, but I really like to debate issues as long as the exchange is respectful.
I think the forum users must be the primary enforcers of decorum on this forum. If someone calls somebody a name or disparages another poster with junvenile comments, I think others should call them on it.
I can honestly say I've never called someone an idiot on this forum, and there's nothing about that that deserves a pat on the back. It's just having some respect. Not that hard.
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Well, as someone who has gotten into a pissing match or two on here I was trying to offer input on a conversation about pissing matches. I offered an opinion on why I think there are more on here recently (i.e. low point). You can take that for what it's worth and interpret it how you see fit.

The rest of your post needs to be yelled from on top of a soap box however. You may be reading too much into what I am saying if that what you think I was asking for. Nothing wrong with calling out ridiculous statements as ridiculous. Nothing wrong with poking. Nothing wrong with standing up for yourself when someone makes lies up about what you said. Could it be done without ever name-calling? Maybe by some. Maybe not by some others (again, including myself). Again, my point is folks have been taking all that more seriously on here lately. IMO since the debates around what happened on 9/2.


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Bob_Loblaw said:
The majority of Minnesotans are dead wrong and so is this kid. Half of the players suspended and being thrown under the bus by the administration have been exonerated by the University, itself! It doesn't matter if kool-aid drinking ideologues refuse to admit that the process was absolute garbage. The players boycott was an astounding success and a bright spot in the entire ordeal. I get that is going to be over quite a few people's heads, but it doesn't make it wrong.

As to the actual subject matter of the article. That all sounds good. I guess more accountability is better than less. This article appears to be an obvious dig at a pretty clean program. It's not doing PJ Fleck any favors.
Click to expand...

Wow Bob. Your way only huh? Boycott was an astounding success. Seriously? A player makes a statement with much more insider information than you have and he is wrong. You have no clue what was discussed behind closed doors between players so quit with the he is wrong and it's over so many peoples' heads crap. Nice arrogant post.
 

Spoofin said:
Well, as someone who has gotten into a pissing match or two on here I was trying to offer input on a conversation about pissing matches. I offered an opinion on why I think there are more on here recently (i.e. low point). You can take that for what it's worth and interpret it how you see fit.

The rest of your post needs to be yelled from on top of a soap box however. You may be reading too much into what I am saying if that what you think I was asking for. Nothing wrong with calling out ridiculous statements as ridiculous. Nothing wrong with poking. Nothing wrong with standing up for yourself when someone makes lies up about what you said. Could it be done without ever name-calling? Maybe by some. Maybe not by some others (again, including myself). Again, my point is folks have been taking all that more seriously on here lately. IMO since the debates around what happened on 9/2.
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I don't disagree that it is totally acceptable to make your degree of disagreement known. There are a lot of ways to do that without demeaning someone. Again, you aren't nearly the worst. I would say that your post demonstrates that you understand that and are sincere. I really appreciate that.
Row The Boat!
 

KillerGopherFan said:
I'm not sure saying you get sucked into a pissing match is a confession, but I'll take you at your word.
I'm probably not likely to continue posting as frequently as I have recently, but I really like to debate issues as long as the exchange is respectful.
I think the forum users must be the primary enforcers of decorum on this forum. If someone calls somebody a name or disparages another poster with junvenile comments, I think others should call them on it.
I can honestly say I've never called someone an idiot on this forum, and there's nothing about that that deserves a pat on the back. It's just having some respect. Not that hard.
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You are having a pissing match over a post about a pissing match.
 


46Gophers said:
Wow Bob. Your way only huh? Boycott was an astounding success. Seriously? A player makes a statement with much more insider information than you have and he is wrong. You have no clue what was discussed behind closed doors between players so quit with the he is wrong and it's over so many peoples' heads crap. Nice arrogant post.
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So, it's my way only and you disagree with me. So I take it you're equally as arrogant as I am. How dare someone disagree with me, maybe I should whine about it. Nevermind I only posted this as a response to another poster who said something idiotic about "I disagreed with the boycott and so does the majority of Minnesota". I didn't bring this up out of the blue. Save your tears for a more mean spirited post that comes out of the blue.

Of course this kid has more insider information. . . nice strawman. . . I never implied he didn't. However, you don't need any inside information to come to the logical conclusion. They boycotted because 10 teammates were punished by a University's extrajudicial office that they believed acted out of line. They put a spotlight on this department (and departments like this all over the country). I can't imagine how ANYONE wouldn't think that is a good thing.

When the dust settled, 4 players were totally cleared and 1 of the punishments was reduced. The head of that office is "coincidentally" moving on, and the regents are looking into ways to improve the process. Additionally, like I said earlier, a much larger part of the population is aware of this process that is taking place on college campuses throughout the country that at best, needs some tweaking, and at worst, cultivates the most severe injustice in the entire country.

So it was a success. It brought this process to the light of day for most people in the country. You can say is an arrogant take, but please don't. It's really only common sense. It wouldn't be arrogant for me to say "2+2=4 and if you disagree with me, you're wrong".
 

Spoofin said:
Not the first time this has been posted or that it was posted after some Fleckster was preaching culture and coaches responsibility on all players actions. Truth is unless PJF was promoting armed robbery he was no more responsible for this than Claeys was the "incident" or that Brew was for the incident that happened on his watch. Too much for some to admit tho.


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Yes, completely agree.
 

Spoofin said:
Not the first time this has been posted or that it was posted after some Fleckster was preaching culture and coaches responsibility on all players actions. Truth is unless PJF was promoting armed robbery he was no more responsible for this than Claeys was the "incident" or that Brew was for the incident that happened on his watch. Too much for some to admit tho.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Somewhere out there the best discipline coach in college football who has turned around tons of kids.... is lying awake at night scared one of his kids is gonna do something stupid, and there is nothing he can do to stop it.

In fact the best coach in the world when it comes to turning around the lives of his players might in fact have had a tons of incidents with his team, because he takes those chances.

If there was a coach out there who could somehow pick the best perfect angel football players, he wouldn't be helping anyone, but he'll get the praise for keeping his kids in line...
 

PMWinSTP said:
Wow. Between this post and you last one, you've somehow argued both sides and contradicted yourself. Only recruit Christians and have bible study to lessen the chances of allegations but then things have gotten so crazy now where any kind of sexual contact could be construed or later claimed as non-consensual...Hmmm. Are you saying celibacy for all athletes attending the U?
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You misunderstood my comments. I didn't say that I thought we should only recruit Christians, I said that if that is what Fleck feels he needs to do to help prevent future scandalous behavior, then I'd be ok with that. I also said if he can accomplish it some other way, I'd be ok with that, too. Thing is, he is the coach and I'm simply going to trust that he knows the best way to get done what needs to be done, and however he chooses to go about it, I'm ok with it, as long as its legal and I guess moral or ethical.

And no I am not saying that all athletes attending the U should practice celibacy, although that wouldn't be the worst option, but being realistic, that won't happen. I said they are going to have to get the women they are interested in to sign contracts of consent or something.



I'm not contradicting myself. Seems to me that you are just trying to be argumentative?? What have I posted that so offends you?
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Man my gifs are always too big but for these threads but this is for GH:

https://gfycat.com/ConstantQuestionableGallinule


I swear this place is getting worse you say one thing and suddenly you're a hater or a blind supporter or ... whatever the other person can take to an extreme and complain about.
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That right there is the truth if I have ever read it! Then again, many of these people definitively know what happened even though 99.99999% of the population thinks there is a lot of incomplete or conflicting information. But, then again, I was never the best at puzzles.
 

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