Andy Katz' take on Al and Devoe

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The bottom line is Devoe has been unhappy playing for Tubby for a long time. The transfer would of occured mid season last year had Al not been ruled ineligible. I think the reason he stayed after last year is he thought with the way he played at the end of the year and in the BTT, he would be given alot more freedom this year and would be playing the same minutes as Blake and Al. I think there also was some resentment/jealousy towards Blake and his staus as hometown hero/fan favorite/coaches pet. When he realized early on this year that nothing had changed, his attitude went from bad to worse and its been downhill from there. It didn't help that people like Ro Russell we're constantly in his ear telling him how great he was and how Tubby was screwing him. Then you have Cory and Tristan at texas basically running the show at Texas from Day 1 and telling Devoe how great it is down there with so few rules and such freedom on the court. It's unfortunate that Al got hurt and this topic had to be brought back up. Devoe was a terrible match with Tubby from Day 1.
 

It didn't help that people like Ro Russell we're constantly in his ear telling him how great he was and how Tubby was screwing him. Then you have Cory and Tristan at texas basically running the show at Texas from Day 1 and telling Devoe how great it is down there with so few rules and such freedom on the court. It's unfortunate that Al got hurt and this topic had to be brought back up. Devoe was a terrible match with Tubby from Day 1
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So where will that leave Mo Walker?
 

I don't remember Ro being very involved with Walker, certainly not to the extent he has been with his star players. I also don't think Walker can have too many complaints with his playing time before the injury. Outside of Devoe, it's been pretty quiet this year on the transfer/unhappy rumors compared to last year where Devoe, Cobbs, Carter, Colton, and Trevor all we're complaining and talking about leaving plus the Royce drama.
 

JohnnyGopher said:
I don't remember Ro being very involved with Walker, certainly not to the extent he has been with his star players. I also don't think Walker can have too many complaints with his playing time before the injury. Outside of Devoe, it's been pretty quiet this year on the transfer/unhappy rumors compared to last year where Devoe, Cobbs, Carter, Colton, and Trevor all we're complaining and talking about leaving plus the Royce drama.
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That's a lot of players Johnny Gopher.
 

JohnnyGopher said:
The bottom line is Devoe has been unhappy playing for Tubby for a long time. The transfer would of occured mid season last year had Al not been ruled ineligible. I think the reason he stayed after last year is he thought with the way he played at the end of the year and in the BTT, he would be given alot more freedom this year and would be playing the same minutes as Blake and Al. I think there also was some resentment/jealousy towards Blake and his staus as hometown hero/fan favorite/coaches pet. When he realized early on this year that nothing had changed, his attitude went from bad to worse and its been downhill from there. It didn't help that people like Ro Russell we're constantly in his ear telling him how great he was and how Tubby was screwing him. Then you have Cory and Tristan at texas basically running the show at Texas from Day 1 and telling Devoe how great it is down there with so few rules and such freedom on the court. It's unfortunate that Al got hurt and this topic had to be brought back up. Devoe was a terrible match with Tubby from Day 1.
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So are you saying all this talk of academic trouble isn't true? Also, there's gotta be a reason why Devoe was suspended at the beginning of the season.
 



KyGopherfan said:
So are you saying all this talk of academic trouble isn't true? Also, there's gotta be a reason why Devoe was suspended at the beginning of the season.
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What talk of academic trouble? Same source as the 'three failed drug tests?'
 

USAFChief said:
What talk of academic trouble? Same source as the 'three failed drug tests?'
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Didn't Tubby say multiple times during the first suspension that Devoe had academic things to take care of? (don't have exact links, sorry). That would make academics a pretty valid discussion as a potential reason Devoe was losing time/having issues
 

fryguy22 said:
Didn't Tubby say multiple times during the first suspension that Devoe had academic things to take care of? (don't have exact links, sorry). That would make academics a pretty valid discussion as a potential reason Devoe was losing time/having issues
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To the best of my knowledge, Joseph was suspended for 'off-court issues.' Nobody in a position to know ever said what those 'off-court issues' were.

Could have been academics (although that doesn't make much sense: it wasn't the end of a semester, and the U has been pretty up front about academic suspensions in the past).

Could have been pot (multiple posters here will claim knowledge of failed drug test(s), although 'I have a source' is their only source).

Could have been mass murder.

Could have been asking his coach for more minutes.
 



USAFChief said:
To the best of my knowledge, Joseph was suspended for 'off-court issues.' Nobody in a position to know ever said what those 'off-court issues' were.

Could have been academics (although that doesn't make much sense: it wasn't the end of a semester, and the U has been pretty up front about academic suspensions in the past).

Could have been pot (multiple posters here will claim knowledge of failed drug test(s), although 'I have a source' is their only source).

Could have been mass murder.

Could have been asking his coach for more minutes.
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Come on.

You really think Devoe would sit 6 games for asking for more minutes?! Surely you can't be that dense.

I don't know what the deal is; academics, drugs, etc. All I know is that where there is smoke, there is fire. Same thing happened with Bostick last year...the rumors started popping up via posters on this board, and it ended up being reality.

Some posters on here are very connected to the program (JohnnyGopher, for one). Just because posters aren't willing to divulge their source doesn't mean what they say isn't reality. A source won't be a source for long if they give up that ridiculously confidential information.

I'll just go record saying that given the severity of the suspension (in light of Trevor not even being suspended for an arrest), it had to be really serious. 6 games is nearly 20% of the season. Players don't sit out for 6 games for asking their coach for more minutes.

When they say "off-court issues," let's play process of elimination:

You already said it wasn't likely academics, because that would've been announced already (as it had last year). He wasn't arrested for anything, including "mass murder" (no public record like Trevor). Disagreeing with the coach won't get you suspended for 6 games.

Thus, it could be drugs, fighting with teammates, severe selfish actions/insubordination, etc. What else is there? Regardless of what it was, it's pretty serious. Acting like it was a simple disagreement over playing time or # of shots is ridiculous, period.
 

ShowinGoldyLove said:
Come on.

You really think Devoe would sit 6 games for asking for more minutes?! Surely you can't be that dense.

I don't know what the deal is; academics, drugs, etc. All I know is that where there is smoke, there is fire. Same thing happened with Bostick last year...the rumors started popping up via posters on this board, and it ended up being reality.

Some posters on here are very connected to the program (JohnnyGopher, for one). Just because posters aren't willing to divulge their source doesn't mean what they say isn't reality. A source won't be a source for long if they give up that ridiculously confidential information.

I'll just go record saying that given the severity of the suspension (in light of Trevor not even being suspended for an arrest), it had to be really serious. 6 games is nearly 20% of the season. Players don't sit out for 6 games for asking their coach for more minutes.

When they say "off-court issues," let's play process of elimination:

You already said it wasn't likely academics, because that would've been announced already (as it had last year). He wasn't arrested for anything, including "mass murder" (no public record like Trevor). Disagreeing with the coach won't get you suspended for 6 games.

Thus, it could be drugs, fighting with teammates, severe selfish actions/insubordination, etc. What else is there? Regardless of what it was, it's pretty serious. Acting like it was a simple disagreement over playing time or # of shots is ridiculous, period.
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Yes, clearly the 'mass murder' and 'asking for minutes' lines were serious. Sheesh. Although, to be fair, I think 'strong disagreement with coach about playing time and/or style and reactions thereto' is the most reasonable guess as to the cause of both the suspension and the transfer.

BTW...did you read JohnnyGopher's take above?
 

There was more to the first suspension than playing time. I'm surprised JohnnyGopher would be that candid to begin with.
 

USAFChief said:
BTW...did you read JohnnyGopher's take above?
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I did.

However, although he was frustrated last year, he wasn't suspended back then. Something caused a severe suspension to start this season.

So let's figure this out:

He plays really well to end the year last year. He plays well in the Canada trip. His number of shots and scoring are career highs.

Then (if we are to believe your logic), for some reason, Devoe all of a sudden goes on a rant that deserves a 6 game suspension to start the season?

How could he have a strong disagreement with Tubby on his playing time, # of shots, etc. if he hadn't even played a game yet this year?!

The reasoning you're offering up doesn't make any sense whatsoever, and you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to see through it.
 



USAFChief said:
Although, to be fair, I think 'strong disagreement with coach about playing time and/or style and reactions thereto' is the most reasonable guess as to the cause of both the suspension and the transfer.
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Strong disagreement? It would have to be pretty strong (or be the latest in a string of strong disagreements) to warrant a 6 game suspension that included the PR Tipoff. Strong disagreement is a polite way of saying insubordinate.
 

I don't remember Ro being very involved with Walker, certainly not to the extent he has been with his star players. I also don't think Walker can have too many complaints with his playing time before the injury. Outside of Devoe, it's been pretty quiet this year on the transfer/unhappy rumors compared to last year where Devoe, Cobbs, Carter, Colton, and Trevor all we're complaining and talking about leaving plus the Royce drama.
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Thanks. Any ideas if they're looking at another scholarship to fill next year?
 

USAFChief said:
Yes, clearly the 'mass murder' and 'asking for minutes' lines were serious. Sheesh. Although, to be fair, I think 'strong disagreement with coach about playing time and/or style and reactions thereto' is the most reasonable guess as to the cause of both the suspension and the transfer.

BTW...did you read JohnnyGopher's take above?
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I think your argument about playing time would be a lot more valid if this happened during the middle of the season, not at the beginning. Hard to argue about playing time before the season even starts. I do think style of play might have something to do with it, however.
 

USAFChief said:
Yes, clearly the 'mass murder' and 'asking for minutes' lines were serious. Sheesh. Although, to be fair, I think 'strong disagreement with coach about playing time and/or style and reactions thereto' is the most reasonable guess as to the cause of both the suspension and the transfer.

BTW...did you read JohnnyGopher's take above?
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I'm with Chief on this one. I can definitely see Devoe blowing up on Tubby over playing time and style. Getting in an angry shouting match with Tubby would definitely result in some punishment with Tubby... say maybe 6 games worth of punishment? Makes sense to me and reading JohnnyGopher's post, it doesn't even remotely hint at academic or drug issues, but it's pretty straight forward about Devoe being unhappy with playing time/style.
 

mattw1067 said:
First off, let me say that I believe Devoe made a poor decision in leaving midway through the season. However, I have 2 things to say.

1. I cannot understand all the "Devoe is a mu***fu*** and an a-hole who got what he deserved, and I hope someone burns his house to the ground" type talk. It's ridiculous. He obviously felt that Tubby's method of coaching was not a good fit for him and he did not want to have to endure another 3 months of doing something that obviously made him unhappy.

2. I am tired of all the people claiming Devoe was suspended for failing multiple drug tests. How the hell do you know? I believe he was suspended for his attitude toward Tubby and the team. Even in Katz' article, Andy talks about Devoe being upset with how Tubby was using him. I believe that Devoe let his emotions get the better of him and that played a big part in his suspension.
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You know, I believe you're wrong. Here's why. Devoe did not complain at all last season while playing in the absence of Al Nolen. in fact, he seemed quite satisfied with Tubby and the world as he knew it when he was starting and playing major minutes.

As I mentioned previously, don't discount the sibling rivalry between Devoe and Corey. Corey, as a freshman at UT, is doing very well. Big brother comes off the bench to spell Al Nolen.
 

playing style is very important in college b ball. calipari gets kids to come because of his stlye of play. devoe doesnt play big ten ball. he should be better suited for pac ten. i do think leaving mid season was a bad move but the one thing we are forgetting is that its his choice! coach does what he wants and that doesnt always works for this new generation of ball players, you tell these kids whatever just to get them there and when they get there they see none of things these coaches talk about. thats why we are having such a hard time getting top 10 and top 20 kids. these young men want to play not watch and we are losing a game. every kid on the team believes he can help and last year devoe did just that! he carried the team to the tourney and had to fight for time this year and there still is a void at the guard position. i dont like the way it was done but i hope he is succesful next year.
 

Tubby wouldn't suspend Devoe for 6 games and make him miss the tourney just for having a disagreement or even an argument with him. There still has to be some serious academic or off the court problem, a la Korie Lucious. I know Tubby's history and he played Rashaad Carruth at UK when he infamously protested during a game and didn't take a shot. He never got suspended.

6 games is very drastic, including not taking the PR trip. The only explanation is something academic or some sort of off court issue like failing a drug test or something. Having a disagreement about playing time wouldn't result in that.

What Johnny says may very well be true about Devoe wanting out after day 1, but that still doesn't explain the suspension. He went through 2 years without being suspending and he supposedly didn't like it here.
 

JohnnyGopher said:
The bottom line is Devoe has been unhappy playing for Tubby for a long time. The transfer would of occured mid season last year had Al not been ruled ineligible. I think the reason he stayed after last year is he thought with the way he played at the end of the year and in the BTT, he would be given alot more freedom this year and would be playing the same minutes as Blake and Al. I think there also was some resentment/jealousy towards Blake and his staus as hometown hero/fan favorite/coaches pet. When he realized early on this year that nothing had changed, his attitude went from bad to worse and its been downhill from there. It didn't help that people like Ro Russell we're constantly in his ear telling him how great he was and how Tubby was screwing him. Then you have Cory and Tristan at texas basically running the show at Texas from Day 1 and telling Devoe how great it is down there with so few rules and such freedom on the court. It's unfortunate that Al got hurt and this topic had to be brought back up. Devoe was a terrible match with Tubby from Day 1.
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I agree - Ro Russell is a big factor in the transfer.

Tubby is a much more accomplished coach than Rick Barnes. Better W-L (%) overall, better in NCAA games, just better period.
 

KyGopherfan said:
Tubby wouldn't suspend Devoe for 6 games and make him miss the tourney just for having a disagreement or even an argument with him. There still has to be some serious academic or off the court problem, a la Korie Lucious. I know Tubby's history and he played Rashaad Carruth at UK when he infamously protested during a game and didn't take a shot. He never got suspended.

6 games is very drastic, including not taking the PR trip. The only explanation is something academic or some sort of off court issue like failing a drug test or something. Having a disagreement about playing time wouldn't result in that.

What Johnny says may very well be true about Devoe wanting out after day 1, but that still doesn't explain the suspension. He went through 2 years without being suspending and he supposedly didn't like it here.
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Do you remember Carruth being out with a "high" ankle sprain as frosh? Well, "high" has different meanings. It was a de facto suspension for failing a couple of "tests" at UK.
 

Can see this scenario:

Nolen is out last year with academic failures and Devoe is all Big Ten tournament pick and leads Gophers to two upsets in that tournament. Then new season starts and Tubby installs Nolen in starting lineup. Devoe is pissed. He thinks he is better plus he did his work in the classroom and Nolen did not. Devoe acts out and Tubby gets upset and suspends him. There could have been another factor like marijuana use that alone might not cause a suspension. Then Nolen gets hurt and Devoe starts again only to have Nolen come back and limit Devoe's minutes to 20 per game.

Right or wrong Devoe thinks he is better than Nolen and as a junior feels time slipping away for his junior season. He also wants a more up tempo offense and Tubby sees his front court as a strength and wants to slow it down for them. Whatever, Tubby and Devoe just did not see eye to eye. It happens.
 

Thanks a ton, JG. Great info, as always. It's good to hear that the waters are mostly smooth right now. It would have been disastrous to have lost Colton and Mbakwe last year.
 

minngg said:
Can see this scenario:

Nolen is out last year with academic failures and Devoe is all Big Ten tournament pick and leads Gophers to two upsets in that tournament. Then new season starts and Tubby installs Nolen in starting lineup. Devoe is pissed. He thinks he is better plus he did his work in the classroom and Nolen did not. Devoe acts out and Tubby gets upset and suspends him. There could have been another factor like marijuana use that alone might not cause a suspension. Then Nolen gets hurt and Devoe starts again only to have Nolen come back and limit Devoe's minutes to 20 per game.

Right or wrong Devoe thinks he is better than Nolen and as a junior feels time slipping away for his junior season. He also wants a more up tempo offense and Tubby sees his front court as a strength and wants to slow it down for them. Whatever, Tubby and Devoe just did not see eye to eye. It happens.
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Sounds pretty logical to me. These arguments would seem to correlate with Devoe's behavior and on-court actions. Sometimes a coach and player just don't see eye-to-eye. I for one complained about Devoe's lack of playing time this season (when he was not suspended). In terms of trying to win a basketball game, it didn't make sense to me. And I'm just a fan, not that player that believes he is being mistreated.

I agree fully with Katz that Devoe leaving midseason was a bad move for Devoe, and especially for the Gophers. But Devoe is an adult and must have felt pretty strongly about the whole situation to just up and leave like that when it was obvious that he would be the prime go-to outside player next year, and could have helped the Gophers do some great things this year.

Finally, Johnny mentioned a list of players who were considering transferring. Of them, we know Devoe and Cobbs were unsatisfied, and it appears that Colton may also be (and if he was then, he's possibly moreso now, with a seemingly smaller role this year than last). The other guys, however, had more outstanding issues and perhaps should be in a different subset of unhappiness.

Let's hope that, as Johnny implied, the issues on the team this year and for the future are much less. I think that last year's issues had as much to do with the whole Royce and Trevor issues and negativity arising from that, as anything else.
 

"2. I am tired of all the people claiming Devoe was suspended for failing multiple drug tests. How the hell do you know? I believe he was suspended for his attitude toward Tubby and the team. Even in Katz' article, Andy talks about Devoe being upset with how Tubby was using him. I believe that Devoe let his emotions get the better of him and that played a big part in his suspension."

First off, you "believing" that Devoe was suspended for his attitude, and another person "believing" that Devoe was suspended for smoking marijuana are the same exact things... guesses.

I think it's pretty clear that Devoe had multiple issues, and that his time had come. From my "sources", I have heard that Devoe undoubtedly was suspended for multiple marijuana related incidents :cool02:, and that he was also doing poorly academically :confused:.

We should all look to the future in this case, and accept that the team is better off without a guy like Devoe in the locker room. Hopefully the introduction of Andre Hollins next year will give the Gophers a new threat at the 1 position.

-GopherHoopsFan
 

GopherHoopsFan said:
"2. I am tired of all the people claiming Devoe was suspended for failing multiple drug tests. How the hell do you know? I believe he was suspended for his attitude toward Tubby and the team. Even in Katz' article, Andy talks about Devoe being upset with how Tubby was using him. I believe that Devoe let his emotions get the better of him and that played a big part in his suspension."

First off, you "believing" that Devoe was suspended for his attitude, and another person "believing" that Devoe was suspended for smoking marijuana are the same exact things... guesses.

I think it's pretty clear that Devoe had multiple issues, and that his time had come. From my "sources", I have heard that Devoe undoubtedly was suspended for multiple marijuana related incidents :cool02:, and that he was also doing poorly academically :confused:.

We should all look to the future in this case, and accept that the team is better off without a guy like Devoe in the locker room. Hopefully the introduction of Andre Hollins next year will give the Gophers a new threat at the 1 position.

-GopherHoopsFan
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The team is better off without Joseph? Maybe you're on to something here. Let's run off Mbakwe, Iverson, and Williams too...who knows how far they could go.
 

USAFChief said:
The team is better off without Joseph? Maybe you're on to something here. Let's run off Mbakwe, Iverson, and Williams too...who knows how far they could go.
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It sounds to me like he was referring to Devoe's attitude not his skillset as a player. And if that's the case then he's correct. There are shades of gray here. The Gophers can miss his minutes and skills on the court yet also benefit from the subtraction of a player who didn't want to play within the current team concept.
 

USAFChief said:
The team is better off without Joseph? Maybe you're on to something here. Let's run off Mbakwe, Iverson, and Williams too...who knows how far they could go.
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First off, the Gophers had played leaps and bounds better (this year) when Joseph was off the court. I personally was getting tired and bored of watching Devoe jack up three point shots from five feet behind the arc with 27 seconds on the shot clock. If you had been watching closely, I think you would have noticed that Devoe was playing outside of the offense that Smith has been running, and that he was taking forced shots. The point is, how is the team supposed be successful when every player is not subscribing to the way the coach needs the team to play.

Do I think that Joseph has talent? Absolutely. I think that Devoe is too selfish to play for a team that needs him to be a role player.

As far as running off Mbakwe, Iverson, and Williams... You don't see these guys stepping outside of their roles to try to be the star. Those guys can prove that they have talent while playing inside of the system, exactly what you have to do to be successful on the college court.

-GopherHoopsFan
 

GoAUpher said:
The Gophers can miss his minutes and skills on the court yet also benefit from the subtraction of a player who didn't want to play within the current team concept.
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It can be one or the other, but not both. Either his 'minutes and skills' outweigh 'a player who didn't want to play within the current team concept' or they don't.
 

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