All Things Steven Crowl Thread (UPDATED: Crowl commits to UW)

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MinnGopher said:
You haven't said one thing about the type of player or what you feel is generally wrong with the type of player you recruit. Who are these skill guys we should be targeting right now? You just want to complain about who we are targeting because some haven't panned out as well, or we haven't won as much as you would like. Anybody can do that. Right now, would you take Crowl? Who are some others that we should be targeting then that are skill guys instead of athletes? You literally have made no argument, just complained about our recruits.
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I think the extremes are Hoffarber or Rodney Williams, which do you take.
 

RickDornsby said:
Athleticism can trump skill if you’re Michigan State on a whole different level than your conference with skilled athletes or if you’re Duke with NBA players that haven’t meshed as a team yet.

If not, you’re left with the Omersas or the Washingtons or the McBrayers of, “if he just got a better jumper and stopped turning it over so much, we’d have a stud player” and then the player graduates and he has not yet.
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Physically and emotionally healthy Macbrayer was a lot more effective than the Macbrayer who had to recover midseason from calf injuries (didn’t practice junior year) and the passing of his mother. Also don’t forget about the pg who got himself into trouble that was the star of last year’s senior class. Macbrayer was the second best recruit, talent wise, in that class.

Washington, while a miss, has all the talent necessary to succeed. Just couldn’t focus the energy in the right place.

Omersa is young for his class and has shown he can defend. He will play a specific role and was recruited as a compliment to Gabe and oturo.

And even with those three players you dislike on the roster, we still got to the round of 32!!!




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bc2211 said:
Physically and emotionally healthy Macbrayer was a lot more effective than the Macbrayer who had to recover midseason from calf injuries (didn’t practice junior year) and the passing of his mother. Also don’t forget about the pg who got himself into trouble that was the star of last year’s senior class. Macbrayer was the second best recruit, talent wise, in that class.

Washington, while a miss, has all the talent necessary to succeed. Just couldn’t focus the energy in the right place.

Omersa is young for his class and has shown he can defend. He will play a specific role and was recruited as a compliment to Gabe and oturo.

And even with those three players you dislike on the roster, we still got to the round of 32!!!




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And the two best players from that team are now gone. Coffey was a must-take and it’s not like they can’t still get great players like Murphy but we always seem to be just short of having things all come together.

Btw - maybe there’s a reason that guys like Washington are 4 star recruits but none of the big programs want him. It’s fine to take a player like him here and there but I think this was Richard’s platonic ideal of a recruit until recently.
 

RickDornsby said:
And the two best players from that team are now gone. Coffey was a must-take and it’s not like they can’t still get great players like Murphy but we always seem to be just short of having things all come together.

Btw - maybe there’s a reason that guys like Washington are 4 star recruits but none of the big programs want him. It’s fine to take a player like him here and there but I think this was Richard’s platonic ideal of a recruit until recently.
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Those plugged in with coaches can correct me if I’m wrong, but Murphy wasn’t highly sought after. His offer list isn’t full of “great” teams and 247 had him at 217. He was everything you are saying we shouldn’t recruit: athletic but unskilled and can’t shoot. You can’t have it both ways.


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bc2211 said:
Those plugged in with coaches can correct me if I’m wrong, but Murphy wasn’t highly sought after. His offer list isn’t full of “great” teams and 247 had him at 217. He was everything you are saying we shouldn’t recruit: athletic but unskilled and can’t shoot. You can’t have it both ways.
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If Minnesota has 1 guy out of 5 develop into an All-BIG player going with this strategy and Wisconsin has 3 of 5 going with theirs, does that mean Minnesota is doing it best? The ceiling of the Murphy/Coffey (and Mason/Lynch for the beginning) era was a 5 seed that got crushed and a bubble team that won a tournament game.

I’m seriously all for handling lower expectations of not being a Duke or Kansas-caliber school and enjoying incremental success, I just don’t see much sustained success from this. I don’t even think Pitino is a terrible coach but it could be better.
 
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RickDornsby said:
If Minnesota has 1 guy out of 5 develop into an All-BIG player going with this strategy and Wisconsin has 3 of 5 going with theirs, does that mean Minnesota is doing it best? The ceiling of the Murphy/Coffey (and Mason/Lynch for the beginning) era was a 5 seed that got crushed and a bubble team that won a tournament game.

I’m seriously all for handling lower expectations of not being a Duke or Kansas-caliber school and enjoying incremental success, I just don’t see much sustained success from this. I don’t even think Pitino is a terrible coach but it could be better.
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I can also point out times the badgers system blanked in the tournament... upsets happens when talent is king in quick prep tournament situations.

I think there is more success here than you are acknowledging. I’d argue the ceiling of this era (so far) was the tourney win that we had 6 months ago. Minnesota’s 2017-2018 was a dumpster fire for like a million ****ty reasons, but we yielded solid tournament teams in 2016-2017 and 2018-2019. Two of our three sophomores look like they could be all big ten this year. Signing guys like Crowl isn’t going to turn Minnesota into Wisconsin.




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RickDornsby said:
If Minnesota has 1 guy out of 5 develop into an All-BIG player going with this strategy and Wisconsin has 3 of 5 going with theirs, does that mean Minnesota is doing it best? The ceiling of the Murphy/Coffey (and Mason/Lynch for the beginning) era was a 5 seed that got crushed and a bubble team that won a tournament game.

I’m seriously all for handling lower expectations of not being a Duke or Kansas-caliber school and enjoying incremental success, I just don’t see much sustained success from this. I don’t even think Pitino is a terrible coach but it could be better.
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You literally just keep making blanket statements and making comments on things that have nothing to do with who we recruit and go after hard. First it starts as you don't like who we recruit to now you are talking about Wisconsin and Pitino's coaching ability? Lol cmon dude stick to one topic/point instead of rambling about nothing.
 
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Here’s my point: we as fans dismiss Davison, Crowl, etc for the shinier objects that can jump really high. Give me guys that can pass and shoot the basketball well.
 

RickDornsby said:
Athleticism can trump skill if you’re Michigan State on a whole different level than your conference with skilled athletes or if you’re Duke with NBA players that haven’t meshed as a team yet.

If not, you’re left with the Omersas or the Washingtons or the McBrayers of, “if he just got a better jumper and stopped turning it over so much, we’d have a stud player” and then the player graduates and he has not yet.
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There is a huge gap between the Washingtons or the Mcbrayers of the world and finding guys like Mike Wilkinson, Jordan Taylor or even better finding guys like Joe Harris, London Perrantes, Malcom Brogdon, Deandre Hunter, Kyle Guy, Ty Jerome. None of those guys had a single blue blood offer, were found first a bought a vision from a coach they thought was a winner. That is the job of a D1 coach at a power 5 school. To win big time with skilled guys that become a powerful team. That is very difficult if your not extremely gifted as a evaluator as a communicator as a teacher, as a leader but it is your job.
 



bc2211 said:
I can also point out times the badgers system blanked in the tournament... upsets happens when talent is king in quick prep tournament situations.

I think there is more success here than you are acknowledging. I’d argue the ceiling of this era (so far) was the tourney win that we had 6 months ago. Minnesota’s 2017-2018 was a dumpster fire for like a million ****ty reasons, but we yielded solid tournament teams in 2016-2017 and 2018-2019. Two of our three sophomores look like they could be all big ten this year. Signing guys like Crowl isn’t going to turn Minnesota into Wisconsin.




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Every program has huge fails in the tourney, even the Blue Bloods plus NOVA,UVA,MSU. The mark of a great program is a consistent showing in their conference, year after year. Build a culture, build a identity and recruit to that. Then teach well. Everyone of those was built that way. Instilled day one and all yielding huge results by year 6. Everyone of those programs had something they were known for nationally, even before the winning. Very difficult to do or everyone would do it. That is why they are special and few and far between. It is a very difficult job, hyper competitive.
 

RickDornsby said:
Here’s my point: we as fans dismiss Davison, Crowl, etc for the shinier objects that can jump really high. Give me guys that can pass and shoot the basketball well.
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Davison was a miss, but it's him and Wright weren't playing together and Wright was the better fit for our system. A majority of misses have been with assts who thankfully are not here. Still on Pitino for final evaluation, but this staff teaches and will recruit better
 

builtbadgers said:
Every program has huge fails in the tourney, even the Blue Bloods plus NOVA,UVA,MSU. The mark of a great program is a consistent showing in their conference, year after year. Build a culture, build a identity and recruit to that. Then teach well. Everyone of those was built that way. Instilled day one and all yielding huge results by year 6. Everyone of those programs had something they were known for nationally, even before the winning. Very difficult to do or everyone would do it. That is why they are special and few and far between. It is a very difficult job, hyper competitive.
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I only brought up UW’s tourney failures because Rick pointed out Minnesota’s upset as a 5 seed as a huge failure, then went on to favor Wisconsin. Agree on most of what you have stated, but I seriously wonder if a recruit is looking back to see how many top 4 finishes in conferences team A has compared to team B. I suspect the gauge of success is more inline with recent tournament births. I think a set of very unfortunate events in 17-18 is the only reason the gophers aren’t going for a 4th straight birth this next year. Agree completely that program stability and consistent winning is so important. This is a critical year for me in my opinion of the staff. We have enough talent to make it another run into March. Up to the staff to develop and prepare them.


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bc2211 said:
I only brought up UW’s tourney failures because Rick pointed out Minnesota’s upset as a 5 seed as a huge failure, then went on to favor Wisconsin. Agree on most of what you have stated, but I seriously wonder if a recruit is looking back to see how many top 4 finishes in conferences team A has compared to team B. I suspect the gauge of success is more inline with recent tournament births. I think a set of very unfortunate events in 17-18 is the only reason the gophers aren’t going for a 4th straight birth this next year. Agree completely that program stability and consistent winning is so important. This is a critical year for me in my opinion of the staff. We have enough talent to make it another run into March. Up to the staff to develop and prepare them.


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Agree with you but it is not just making the tournament, it is your season long success, your culture, your ability as a coach is spelled out by how you play. Parents and kids see it, hear about it from others, see bigger crowds, like the campus and on and on. There are wonderful reasons to come to the U but in general tons of kids pick the best offer they have by coach and program. I have experienced this many times when asked my opinion and having conversations with them. Some will pick us.
 



bc2211 said:
I only brought up UW’s tourney failures because Rick pointed out Minnesota’s upset as a 5 seed as a huge failure, then went on to favor Wisconsin. Agree on most of what you have stated, but I seriously wonder if a recruit is looking back to see how many top 4 finishes in conferences team A has compared to team B. I suspect the gauge of success is more inline with recent tournament births. I think a set of very unfortunate events in 17-18 is the only reason the gophers aren’t going for a 4th straight birth this next year. Agree completely that program stability and consistent winning is so important. This is a critical year for me in my opinion of the staff. We have enough talent to make it another run into March. Up to the staff to develop and prepare them.


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Really enjoy the positivity you see in the program and the healthy exchange we can have without insults and crude comments that ring hollow and provide no actual discussion or insight. You may be right about it going for 4 straight NCAA's but the reason those streaks are difficult are because very unfortunate things happen and in our case we brought some of them on ourselves. Plus 4-14 is a very long way from a birth especially for a team that i thought was sloppy before the issues. Last year is a tourney gift in my mind as 9-11 is mediocre at best. In any event i am hopeful for a stellar season right now. Show prospects proof you can contend for a conference title, that your relevant nationally, that you can be 15-5 type just once. In sports there are thousands of perceptions of teams i thought could do well, to be special but they never reach it. Lets do it now !
 






BarnBurner said:
He is a cheap, dirty player. Built missed those parts of his usual sermon on culture, etc.
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Hardly. do your research before posting mindless attacks. Many posters here know i called for his suspension. Why not post your own thoughts on the topics.
 

builtbadgers said:
Hardly. do your research before posting mindless attacks. Many posters here know i called for his suspension. Why not post your own thoughts on the topics.
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My thoughts are he is a cheap, dirty player. And which Wisconsin player injured Mason?

Pattern of conduct built. Right? Bo and Gaard teach it?
 

Davison is a dink. Grayson Allen was a winner but he is a dink as well.

Davison is dirty and the stuff he does is calculating. He does sneaky subtle $hit that is dirty. I don’t care that he reads to little kids or has a new daily scripture quote on Instagram. Dude is a dink he actions have proven that.

We know he is a winner. That is part of Davison drinking game. Buy a 12 and every time they mention on TV he is a winner, was a QB in high school or mention his shoulder you drink. My bad you might need a case!
 

BarnBurner said:
My thoughts are he is a cheap, dirty player. And which Wisconsin player injured Mason?

Pattern of conduct built. Right? Bo and Gaard teach it?
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They do not teach it. He plays over the line from where they teach at. Name another guy, hell a whole bunch of them since you seem to think they teach it. They teach defense that actually fouls less than nearly every team.
 

Agree Davison takes it over the edge on his own. Too me when I think about a Badger baller who was a winner I think Bronson Koenig. Dude was money!
 

builtbadgers said:
They do not teach it. He plays over the line from where they teach at. Name another guy, hell a whole bunch of them since you seem to think they teach it. They teach defense that actually fouls less than nearly every team.
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Which one injured Mason? I think it was Mason. Perhaps I am wrong. A gopher was injured by a Wisconsin player via an international undercut.

What about it built?
 

BarnBurner said:
Which one injured Mason? I think it was Mason. Perhaps I am wrong. A gopher was injured by a Wisconsin player via an international undercut.

What about it built?
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You’re thinking of Dre. That was like 5 years ago and Gard wasn’t even the head coach at that point. I hate the Badgers as much as anyone, but the notion that Gard teaches cheap shots is pretty far fetched.

Davison is a cheap shot artist, doesn’t mean Gard is teaching it
 

bizzle22 said:
You’re thinking of Dre. That was like 5 years ago and Gard wasn’t even the head coach at that point. I hate the Badgers as much as anyone, but the notion that Gard teaches cheap shots is pretty far fetched.

Davison is a cheap shot artist, doesn’t mean Gard is teaching it
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Ok. Dre.

Bo was there, as was Gaard I believe. Neither player received any level of discipline.

Just challenging built. His memory is selective. And Davison is his type of player.
 

BarnBurner said:
Ok. Dre.

Bo was there, as was Gaard I believe. Neither player received any level of discipline.

Just challenging built. His memory is selective. And Davison is his type of player.
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What was selective about it. I remembered it and called for a suspension. Plus, your speaking for me again and calling him my type of player. I can speak for myself, Ty Jerome is my type of player, Deandre Hunter is my kind of player, Kyle Guy is my type of player or a Malcom Brogdon. Guys that play at a high level in every aspect, complete, continuous. Guys that win, guys that are humble, guys that volunteer in the community. Why are you outright lying. Have at it, i will no longer respond to you for the benefit of the board.
 

Roland Brooks said:
Davison is a dink. Grayson Allen was a winner but he is a dink as well.

Davison is dirty and the stuff he does is calculating. He does sneaky subtle $hit that is dirty. I don’t care that he reads to little kids or has a new daily scripture quote on Instagram. Dude is a dink he actions have proven that.

We know he is a winner. That is part of Davison drinking game. Buy a 12 and every time they mention on TV he is a winner, was a QB in high school or mention his shoulder you drink. My bad you might need a case!
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Davison is the definition of white privilege. If a black player pulled half the **** he did, be a whole different narrative, but because he's white, he's a "gamer" who "hustles" "tough as nails" That trip on Mason is exactly who he is. Gassner step on Dre is a legit debate and quite frankly it usually depends on which team you like, but no defending Brad on the Mason trip, pure Bush and one of these days he's gonna get what's coming to him when he ****s with the wrong dude

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builtbadgers said:
What was selective about it. I remembered it and called for a suspension. Plus, your speaking for me again and calling him my type of player. I can speak for myself, Ty Jerome is my type of player, Deandre Hunter is my kind of player, Kyle Guy is my type of player or a Malcom Brogdon. Guys that play at a high level in every aspect, complete, continuous. Guys that win, guys that are humble, guys that volunteer in the community. Why are you outright lying. Have at it, i will no longer respond to you for the benefit of the board.
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You said he is a hard nosed winner. Is that your type of player? Appears to be based on your own description. You sure get butt hurt easily.

Remember you said Davison is a hard nosed winner. Not me.
 

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