All Things Race Thompson Recruitment Thread - Class of 2018, Gophers Have Offered



GopherWeatherGuy

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Objectively speaking this is a bottom 4 roster on paper at the moment. Johnson’s biggest selling point was recruiting I was told no? Look I would love to be proven wrong, but I also don’t get why people are getting so defensive over what has been an abysmal start to his tenure. I’ve been a gopher fan my whole life and I’ve watched years and years of terrible basketball. I expect more now and I’m gonna call out bad recruiting or coaching when I see it.

Weren't we a bottom 2 roster last year? Looks like we're moving up!
 


howeda7

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We don’t know how good our incoming transfers are going to be yet. The fact that they came from mid majors is irrelevant to me. Our class isn’t even done yet, and some coaches are more worried about character and instilling their culture with their first recruiting class so they can set up long term success. It just make no sense to me to be upset this early. I don’t care if other teams with new coaches win more games year one. I want to setup a culture and have long term success.
We have an idea. Players don't generally go from the Patriot League to all B1G in one year. It's a relevant data point for setting expectations. Could one of them be great? Sure. Are most of them likely to be? No.

I'm not upset. What's done is done. I'm just not going to pretend what has happened so far is meaningless or fake irrational optimism.

There was a hope to keep some of our important players like Robbins. That didn't happen. There was hope to replace Conroy with a Power 5 coach who would bring a couple players with him. That didn't happen. So we have a roster with 2 returning players and a bunch of lower level transfers. Maybe the 4 open spots will be filled with immediate impact guys. But odds are against it. If what we have now resembles the final roster, next year is likely going to be pretty rough. Can Ben go 9-22 but still hit a HR with the 2022 recruiting class? I hope so.
 


alchemy2u

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We have an idea. Players don't generally go from the Patriot League to all B1G in one year. It's a relevant data point for setting expectations. Could one of them be great? Sure. Are most of them likely to be? No.

I'm not upset. What's done is done. I'm just not going to pretend what has happened so far is meaningless or fake irrational optimism.

There was a hope to keep some of our important players like Robbins. That didn't happen. There was hope to replace Conroy with a Power 5 coach who would bring a couple players with him. That didn't happen. So we have a roster with 2 returning players and a bunch of lower level transfers. Maybe the 4 open spots will be filled with immediate impact guys. But odds are against it. If what we have now resembles the final roster, next year is likely going to be pretty rough. Can Ben go 9-22 but still hit a HR with the 2022 recruiting class? I hope so.
Remember that some of those that transferred out went to lower level schools. And let's make sure we are keeping it all in perspective. The free transfer this year has left many schools that have hired new coaches with a lot of payers leaving (just look at Utah, etc..).

Also, there are many P6 schools that are picking up players from much lower leagues in place of just recycling some other P6 player.

Alabama - Furman
Arkansas - South Dakota
ASU - Illinois State, Robert Morris and Toledo
Auburn - College of Charleston, Eastern Kentucky
Boston College - College of Charleston, Drexel
Clemson - South Florida
Colorado - Western Carolina
Creighton - Northwestern Missouri State
Duke - Davidson
Florida - Charleston Southern, Kansas City
Georgia - UIC, Florida Atlantic
Indiana - UT Martin
Iowa - North Dakota

Etc..... you get the point......
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Remember that some of those that transferred out went to lower level schools. And let's make sure we are keeping it all in perspective. The free transfer this year has left many schools that have hired new coaches with a lot of payers leaving (just look at Utah, etc..).

Also, there are many P6 schools that are picking up players from much lower leagues in place of just recycling some other P6 player.

Alabama - Furman
Arkansas - South Dakota
ASU - Illinois State, Robert Morris and Toledo
Auburn - College of Charleston, Eastern Kentucky
Boston College - College of Charleston, Drexel
Clemson - South Florida
Colorado - Western Carolina
Creighton - Northwestern Missouri State
Duke - Davidson
Florida - Charleston Southern, Kansas City
Georgia - UIC, Florida Atlantic
Indiana - UT Martin
Iowa - North Dakota

Etc..... you get the point......
Our entire roster is now lower level folks. I get the point you're trying to make but it isn't really apt. No one would have raised their eyebrows if we held on to 3 more veterans (Gabe, Freeman, Tre) and then added a 1 P6 player and the rest from lower levels. I think that would have been more of a "neutral" offseason.

Our roster turnover is uniquely bad. A lot of that can be attributed to timing. A lot of it can probably be attributed to Ben being an unknown (how would a recruit know if he fit into Ben's system?).

These are all data points that should be considered. They aren't the end of the world and I am hopeful Ben can make us forget about this offseason. The "game" just started but it does feel a little like we started with a 3 and out.
 

alchemy2u

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Our entire roster is now lower level folks. I get the point you're trying to make but it isn't really apt. No one would have raised their eyebrows if we held on to 3 more veterans (Gabe, Freeman, Tre) and then added a 1 P6 player and the rest from lower levels. I think that would have been more of a "neutral" offseason.

Our roster turnover is uniquely bad. A lot of that can be attributed to timing. A lot of it can probably be attributed to Ben being an unknown (how would a recruit know if he fit into Ben's system?).

These are all data points that should be considered. They aren't the end of the world and I am hopeful Ben can make us forget about this offseason. The "game" just started but it does feel a little like we started with a 3 and out.
But you are not using all of the information to make your opinion. In Brandon Johnson thread I broke down the amount of transfers/team. A major portion of the P6 schools have been gutted of their roster. It is even worse at some schools that made coaching changes. Here is some of it:

Just to give you an idea of the magnitude of the players in the transfer portal:
251 players from 73 - P6 schools are in the portal.

Avg of 3.4/team

54 - ACC (14 schools - 3.9/team)
17 - Big 12 (10 schools - 1.7/team)
15 - Big East (9 schools - 1.7/team)
53 - Big Ten (14 schools - 3.8/team)
51 - Pac 12 (12 schools - 4.3/team)
61 - SEC (14 schools - 4.4/team)


My earlier reply was in response to a comment that players from small school were not going to be stars on the P6 teams (I paraphrase). I was just pointing out a partial analysis of the very small school kids that many of the P6 programs have placed their confidence in to play.
 

ethomasp31

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We have an idea. Players don't generally go from the Patriot League to all B1G in one year. It's a relevant data point for setting expectations. Could one of them be great? Sure. Are most of them likely to be? No.

I'm not upset. What's done is done. I'm just not going to pretend what has happened so far is meaningless or fake irrational optimism.

There was a hope to keep some of our important players like Robbins. That didn't happen. There was hope to replace Conroy with a Power 5 coach who would bring a couple players with him. That didn't happen. So we have a roster with 2 returning players and a bunch of lower level transfers. Maybe the 4 open spots will be filled with immediate impact guys. But odds are against it. If what we have now resembles the final roster, next year is likely going to be pretty rough. Can Ben go 9-22 but still hit a HR with the 2022 recruiting class? I hope so.

Do you realize the irony of the way you talk about the Patriot League and then you mention Robbins as one of our important players, who was a transfer from Drake, which is in the Missouri Valley Conference?
 



ethomasp31

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We have an idea. Players don't generally go from the Patriot League to all B1G in one year. It's a relevant data point for setting expectations. Could one of them be great? Sure. Are most of them likely to be? No.

I'm not upset. What's done is done. I'm just not going to pretend what has happened so far is meaningless or fake irrational optimism.

There was a hope to keep some of our important players like Robbins. That didn't happen. There was hope to replace Conroy with a Power 5 coach who would bring a couple players with him. That didn't happen. So we have a roster with 2 returning players and a bunch of lower level transfers. Maybe the 4 open spots will be filled with immediate impact guys. But odds are against it. If what we have now resembles the final roster, next year is likely going to be pretty rough. Can Ben go 9-22 but still hit a HR with the 2022 recruiting class? I hope so.

The last 8 years have been really rough.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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But you are not using all of the information to make your opinion. In Brandon Johnson thread I broke down the amount of transfers/team. A major portion of the P6 schools have been gutted of their roster. It is even worse at some schools that made coaching changes. Here is some of it:

Just to give you an idea of the magnitude of the players in the transfer portal:
251 players from 73 - P6 schools are in the portal.

Avg of 3.4/team

54 - ACC (14 schools - 3.9/team)
17 - Big 12 (10 schools - 1.7/team)
15 - Big East (9 schools - 1.7/team)
53 - Big Ten (14 schools - 3.8/team)
51 - Pac 12 (12 schools - 4.3/team)
61 - SEC (14 schools - 4.4/team)


My earlier reply was in response to a comment that players from small school were not going to be stars on the P6 teams (I paraphrase). I was just pointing out a partial analysis of the very small school kids that many of the P6 programs have placed their confidence in to play.
I'm using it from all of the information that I have to go on. We don't know anything about Ben's style. He doesn't have a proven track record of building programs. So right now, all we have is the current situation.

As far as the magnitude of the transfer portal, I totally understand. I even said that I realize it's a bizarre year. That said, we will be well outside these averages.
 

howeda7

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Do you realize the irony of the way you talk about the Patriot League and then you mention Robbins as one of our important players, who was a transfer from Drake, which is in the Missouri Valley Conference?
I don't have a problem with any one recruit. But we need several of them to start and play a lot. Robbins was one of the most saught after transfers last year. Who have we gotten so far that you can say that about? Battle and Fox maybe, but I don't think either was as hot as Robbins.
 
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forever a gopher

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But you are not using all of the information to make your opinion. In Brandon Johnson thread I broke down the amount of transfers/team. A major portion of the P6 schools have been gutted of their roster. It is even worse at some schools that made coaching changes. Here is some of it:

Just to give you an idea of the magnitude of the players in the transfer portal:
251 players from 73 - P6 schools are in the portal.

Avg of 3.4/team

54 - ACC (14 schools - 3.9/team)
17 - Big 12 (10 schools - 1.7/team)
15 - Big East (9 schools - 1.7/team)
53 - Big Ten (14 schools - 3.8/team)
51 - Pac 12 (12 schools - 4.3/team)
61 - SEC (14 schools - 4.4/team)


My earlier reply was in response to a comment that players from small school were not going to be stars on the P6 teams (I paraphrase). I was just pointing out a partial analysis of the very small school kids that many of the P6 programs have placed their confidence in to play.
Is the bolded even possible? We have 2 players out of 13 remaining. Are there teams with coaching changes that have 0 or 1 player remaining? And if so, is that what we're hanging our hat on and what you should be bragging about?

Edit: looked at P6 teams that had a coaching change, and how many players they lost to the portal. Not sure what your definition of "other schools that had coaching changes had it much worse", but I would question whatever definition you're using. If I missed some team with it worse than the Gophers, please correct me. But from what I found, it would seem your assertation is an outright lie.

Marquette lost 3 players
Indiana lost 2
Depaul lost 3
Utah lost 3
Arizona lost 5
Boston College lost 5
Iowa State lost 5
UNC lost 2
Penn State lost 8
Oklahoma lost 6
Texas Tech lost 7
Texas lost 2
Minnesota lost 10
 
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bc2211

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Is the bolded even possible? We have 2 players out of 13 remaining. Are there teams with coaching changes that have 0 or 1 player remaining? And if so, is that what we're hanging our hat on and what you should be bragging about?
Yeah but how many teams have Eric Curry sliding seamlessly into the graduate assistant spot?
 

hungan1

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I'm using it from all of the information that I have to go on. We don't know anything about Ben's style. He doesn't have a proven track record of building programs. So right now, all we have is the current situation.

As far as the magnitude of the transfer portal, I totally understand. I even said that I realize it's a bizarre year. That said, we will be well outside these averages.
My hunch is that you have to look to dave Thorson's style of play while at De LaSalle HS winning unprecedented nine(?) state titles. Then, you have some clues. While he wants players who can shoot and score, the emphasis is on Defense. That is what I think. Who knows for sure. Luke Loewe personifies players they are looking for at least initially. They want unselfish players who can move the ball and play aggressive defense.

They need to build the team depth any way possible on top of some of the key players they already have or are transferring into the program. They don't need to be superstars. Just be coachable, serviceable, and reliable role players coming off the bench. It might be painful to watch, but it is a first step. The key to watch for: Will the team show improvement towards the end of the season? What is Ben Johnson's emerging basketball philosophy and style of play? I hope it is an exciting brand that will keep Williams Arena rocking with the fans returning.

I can see where Coyle and Gable took a calculated risk to hire BJ. They think that he can recruit and build the program. The key is in the assistant coaches that are hired. First and foremost, Dave Thorson. Other programs in the Big Ten have become successful with coaches with no college head coaching experience.

Be patient. It is going to take at least three years to materialize. If it is sooner, then it is a bonus. Gopher Athletics usually fire their men's basketball coaches about every six years. Pitino was an exception with his charm and grace, pedigree, and the Pandemic canopy. IMHO, they should have stuck to their firing schedule and jettison him two years ago.
 
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ethomasp31

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I don't have a problem with any one recruit. But we need several of them to start and play a lot. Robbins was one of the most saught after transfers last year. Who have we gotten so far that you can say that abou? Battle and Fox maybe, but I don't think either was as hot as Robbins.

Is Robbins a loss? Sure....but Fox had an offer at Ohio State....seems like a pretty good pickup. Most of the guys we lost weren't that great....Freeman, Mitchell, Williams, even Mashburn...I suspect the guys we picked up will be at least that good. We still have more players we will pick up. Hopefully we get the guy from BC. Carr was expected to leave no matter what. The B1G isn't going to be any better than it was last year...and you could argue it could even be worse.
 

Johnnyboy18

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Is the bolded even possible? We have 2 players out of 13 remaining. Are there teams with coaching changes that have 0 or 1 player remaining? And if so, is that what we're hanging our hat on and what you should be bragging about?

Edit: looked at P6 teams that had a coaching change, and how many players they lost to the portal. Not sure what your definition of "other schools that had coaching changes had it much worse", but I would question whatever definition you're using. If I missed some team with it worse than the Gophers, please correct me. But from what I found, it would seem your assertation is an outright lie.

Marquette lost 3 players
Indiana lost 2
Depaul lost 3
Utah lost 3
Arizona lost 5
Boston College lost 5
Iowa State lost 5
UNC lost 2
Penn State lost 8
Oklahoma lost 6
Texas Tech lost 7
Texas lost 2
Minnesota lost 10
Utah lost 7 players so this makes it hard to trust any of your other numbers.

Seems like you are wrong about/lying a lot of numbers:

 
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howeda7

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Is Robbins a loss? Sure....but Fox had an offer at Ohio State....seems like a pretty good pickup. Most of the guys we lost weren't that great....Freeman, Mitchell, Williams, even Mashburn...I suspect the guys we picked up will be at least that good. We still have more players we will pick up. Hopefully we get the guy from BC. Carr was expected to leave no matter what. The B1G isn't going to be any better than it was last year...and you could argue it could even be worse.
Mashburn would likely have helped this team more than any recruit we've picked up so far, IMO. Losing him, though not surprising is a blow. Robbins is a bigger one. Gabe hurts too. I agree Carr was gone either way. We don't really know what Freeman or Mitchell can be yet, but I'd take both of them back right now.

Willis is probably an upgrade over Tre Williams, so that's one positive.
 

Johnnyboy18

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Mashburn would likely have helped this team more than any recruit we've picked up so far, IMO. Losing him, though not surprising is a blow. Robbins is a bigger one. I agree Carr was gone either way. We don't really know what Freeman or Mitchell can be yet, but I'd take both of them back right now.

Willis is probably an upgrade over Tre Williams, so that's one positive.
I think you're vastly overeating last years team outside of Robbins and Carr.
 

Gopher Teeth

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My hunch is that you have to look to dave Thorson's style of play while at De LaSalle HS winning unprecedented nine(?) state titles. Then, you have some clues. While he wants players who can shoot and score, the emphasis is on Defense. That is what I think. Who knows for sure. Luke Loewe personifies players they are looking for at least initially. They want unselfish players who can move the ball and play aggressive defense.

They need to build the team depth any way possible on top of some of the key players they already have or are transferring into the program. They don't need to be superstars. Just be coachable, serviceable, and reliable role players coming off the bench. It might be painful to watch, but it is a first step. The key to watch for: Will the team show improvement towards the end of the season? What is Ben Johnson's emerging basketball philosophy and style of play? I hope it is an exciting brand that will keep Williams Arena rocking with the fans returning.

I can see where Coyle and Gable took a calculated risk to hire BJ. They think that he can recruit and build the program. The key is in the assistant coaches that are hired. First and foremost, Dave Thorson. Other programs in the Big Ten have become successful with coaches with no college head coaching experience.

Be patient. It is going to take at least three years to materialize. If it is sooner, then it is a bonus. Gopher Athletics usually fire their men's basketball coaches about every six years. Pitino was an exception with his charm and grace, pedigree, and the Pandemic canopy. IMHO, they should have stuck to their firing schedule and jettison him two years ago.
I have been watching these posts for awhile and have noticed that most peoples' confidence in BJ seems to come from the fact that Thorson is on the staff. If that's the case should we just have hired Thorson as the HC?
 

GopherJack

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I have been watching these posts for awhile and have noticed that most peoples' confidence in BJ seems to come from the fact that Thorson is on the staff. If that's the case should we just have hired Thorson as the HC?
I've thought the exact same thing! Many posters reference Thorson's presence on the staff to be a major factor in how our team will play. Who knows - if BJ eventually gets canned, maybe Thorson will be our next head coach.
 

Go Gophs

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I have been watching these posts for awhile and have noticed that most peoples' confidence in BJ seems to come from the fact that Thorson is on the staff. If that's the case should we just have hired Thorson as the HC?
I would have rather they did, but I'm almost certain, he is the coach.

Ben Johnson is there to recruit guys from our state.
 

Go Gophs

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Mashburn would likely have helped this team more than any recruit we've picked up so far, IMO. Losing him, though not surprising is a blow. Robbins is a bigger one. Gabe hurts too. I agree Carr was gone either way. We don't really know what Freeman or Mitchell can be yet, but I'd take both of them back right now.

Willis is probably an upgrade over Tre Williams, so that's one positive.

Agree.

I also don't really care who the players are that we have on the roster next season in terms of ability. It is about building a culture and winning more with less.

This program will never turn around either way until we are able to get a coach in here that can instill a style of play that wins games with less talent.

Flat out, the top guys will not come here until we win. Would you? Minnesota as a power 5 destination is probably in the 75-100 range right now.
 

forever a gopher

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Utah lost 7 players so this makes it hard to trust any of your other numbers.

Seems like you are wrong about/lying a lot of numbers:

I got my numbers from what 24/7 listed. I looked at the Gophers, and all their information was correct, so I assumed the other teams were correct as well. The tweet that you listed shows 8 Gophers in the portal, which isn't correct. So I'm not sure I'm going to being using that list as gospel. Not sure where some rando dude on Twitter is getting his numbers. I looked at the list on 24/7, which I would assume is somewhat reputable.

https://247sports.com/college/minnesota/Season/2021-Basketball/TransferPortal/

Mashburn
Williams
Carr
Mutaf
Kalschuer
Omersa
Johnson
Mitchell
Freeman
Robbins

That's 10. A number of the teams listed in the tweet also aren't experiencing a coaching change, which was what the assertation by Alchemy was. Also, still none of those numbers provided (if even correct) are more than the Gophers.
 
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alchemy2u

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I got my numbers from what 24/7 listed. I looked at the Gophers, and all their information was correct, so I assumed the other teams were correct as well. The tweet that you listed shows 8 Gophers in the portal, which isn't correct. So I'm not sure I'm going to being using that list as gospel. Not sure where some rando dude on Twitter is getting his numbers. I looked at the list on 24/7, which I would assume is somewhat reputable.

https://247sports.com/college/minnesota/Season/2021-Basketball/TransferPortal/

Mashburn
Williams
Carr
Mutaf
Kalschuer
Omersa
Johnson
Mitchell
Freeman
Robbins

That's 10. A number of the teams listed in the tweet also aren't experiencing a coaching change, which was what the assertation by Alchemy was. Also, still none of those numbers provided (if even correct) are more than the Gophers.
Try a site that is more up to date and correct before you start calling people liars.


Will wait for the apology..... from some random dude on the internet.
 

forever a gopher

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Try a site that is more up to date and correct before you start calling people liars.


Will wait for the apology..... from some random dude on the internet.
I'm still waiting for a list of teams that both has a new coach, as well as more transfers than the Gophers (currently at 10). You made the assertation that there were teams with new coaches that have it "much worse" (your words) in regards to transfers than the Gophers. That was an incorrect statement. If you knew it to be incorrect, and posted anyway, it's a lie. If you didn't know, but posted, then I suppose by definition, it's not a lie if you're not cognizant of the validity of your statement. So I suppose in that case it would be merely incorrect. Either way, not sure why you're seeking an apology.

I will give you an apology, in that I shouldn't have called you a liar, as that's not very nice (even if you're incorrect). I should have just called it "incorrect".
 
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GFBfan

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I got my numbers from what 24/7 listed. I looked at the Gophers, and all their information was correct, so I assumed the other teams were correct as well. The tweet that you listed shows 8 Gophers in the portal, which isn't correct. So I'm not sure I'm going to being using that list as gospel. Not sure where some rando dude on Twitter is getting his numbers. I looked at the list on 24/7, which I would assume is somewhat reputable.

https://247sports.com/college/minnesota/Season/2021-Basketball/TransferPortal/

Mashburn
Williams
Carr
Mutaf
Kalschuer
Omersa
Johnson
Mitchell
Freeman
Robbins

That's 10. A number of the teams listed in the tweet also aren't experiencing a coaching change, which was what the assertation by Alchemy was. Also, still none of those numbers provided (if even correct) are more than the Gophers.
Not to pile on, but your list of Gopher transfers is also wrong. Mutaf and Omersa were gone well before Coach Johnson was hired.
 


Johnnyboy18

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I got my numbers from what 24/7 listed. I looked at the Gophers, and all their information was correct, so I assumed the other teams were correct as well. The tweet that you listed shows 8 Gophers in the portal, which isn't correct. So I'm not sure I'm going to being using that list as gospel. Not sure where some rando dude on Twitter is getting his numbers. I looked at the list on 24/7, which I would assume is somewhat reputable.

https://247sports.com/college/minnesota/Season/2021-Basketball/TransferPortal/

Mashburn
Williams
Carr
Mutaf
Kalschuer
Omersa
Johnson
Mitchell
Freeman
Robbins

That's 10. A number of the teams listed in the tweet also aren't experiencing a coaching change, which was what the assertation by Alchemy was. Also, still none of those numbers provided (if even correct) are more than the Gophers.
Mutaf was never in the portal. Let's keep playing semantics
 




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