All Things P.J. Fleck Rumor Mill Thread - Listed as Candidate for Other Jobs

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alchemy2u said:
I do not think Fleck is going anywhere, but he would do a good job a Michigan. Imagine the player development on a team of 5 star players. He has mellowed his comical Row and other slogans into a fully rounded character and player development program. He could easily morph it into a Michigan Raw Raw themed system.

I want PJ to stay at the U!
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I think PJ is a very good manager of young men. There's been very little negative press surrounding the FB program. The GPA has been great. PJ would instantly have better teams at a brand school like Michigan that is attractive to recruits because of history, NIL, etc. There's no doubt he'd have upgraded talent to work with.

I have my doubts that PJ could turn that into championships. He's never been a coordinator, is not an X's and O's coach and as much as anything, his success here has depended on his coordinators. Some here speculate that even given the resources necessary to hire experienced and proven coordinators, whether PJ would or if he would, would many want to work for him. The life program will only be heralded in a place like Ann Arbor if the on field results put trophies in the case. It will be long forgotten if the team is routinely losing 3 games and is missing the CFP or losing in the first round.
 

swede2 said:
I think PJ is a very good manager of young men. There's been very little negative press surrounding the FB program. The GPA has been great. PJ would instantly have better teams at a brand school like Michigan that is attractive to recruits because of history, NIL, etc. There's no doubt he'd have upgraded talent to work with.

I have my doubts that PJ could turn that into championships. He's never been a coordinator, is not an X's and O's coach and as much as anything, his success here has depended on his coordinators. Some here speculate that even given the resources necessary to hire experienced and proven coordinators, whether PJ would or if he would, would many want to work for him. The life program will only be heralded in a place like Ann Arbor if the on field results put trophies in the case. It will be long forgotten if the team is routinely losing 3 games and is missing the CFP or losing in the first round.
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Let's see how Cig does when Mike Shanahan and Bryant Haines get hired off as head coaches somewhere. Both have been with him since mid 2010's at IUP.

Granted, all that would've had to have happened this year is Mendoza goes out with an injury, and they at a minimum lose to Iowa, Oregon, and Penn State. No one cares that much about a 9 win team. They don't make the playoff.
 

fmlizard said:
Looks like PJ will be back for Year 10 with Whittingham appearing to be the choice at Michigan

No opening is created from this move so the carousel appears to stop here unless something unexpected happens following the CFP
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Until the NY Giants hire Marcus Freeman
 

Some guy said:
I don’t think anyone ever thought he was leaving but thanks for clearing it up that he isn’t


Id be willing to bet something unexpected happens before the end of January but I have no idea what.
Someone will retire or get caught in a scandal
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There was talk it might not be Michigan, such as Fisch to Michigan and Fleck to Washington. A can lead to B leads to C. But this hire is a dead end for the carousel, for now.
 





fmlizard said:
There was talk it might not be Michigan, such as Fisch to Michigan and Fleck to Washington. A can lead to B leads to C. But this hire is a dead end for the carousel, for now.
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Someone somewhere will quit or have an affair
 




mngg11 said:
My question to the people mocking posts or the outright denial related to Fleck going to Michigan, how do you respond if they actually hire him? Other than saying "They're fucking morons" or totally changing your narrative.

This isn't a hot take. It's completely within the realm of reality that Michigan doesn't land DeBoer, Poggi is not an option, and they take a flyer on Fleck. He checks a bunch of boxes that they need checked related to an internal program reset if that's what the school tells the AD that's what is needed and the boosters can be convinced (sounds like he's not considered a nightmare hire by those who have connections with Michigan boosters in here). He can buy coordinators who can essentially run games for him, it essentially would come down to Fleck being agreeable to the AD telling him how they want him running game prep and gameday.

I imagine a lot of goal post shifting would occur because no one seems to have the capability or willingness to admit they're wrong anymore. The blindness caused by Fleck hate, whether it stems from his philosophies or his gameday coaching, has some of you off the wall. Although, those I'm referring to rarely have much to contribute to the conversation that's productive and usually involves nothing but criticism or shit talking.
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How do you respond??
 



matt said:
Where do you think Whittingham was on their list?
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When Whittingham stepped down from Utah he said he wasn't retiring and joked around about 'entering the transfer portal'. Michigan also knew about Moore's issues well before firing him.

You can connect the dots pretty quickly from there.
 



Some guy said:
At the end he seems like he was number one.
I’m sure he was top 10 but I bet they kicked the tires on some others first.
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I agree that he was probably top 10 from day 1, but likely in the back half of the top 10.
 

matt said:
I agree that he was probably top 10 from day 1, but likely in the back half of the top 10.
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Don’t think we will ever know.

A lot of the talk in this thread was about fleck. To get to fleck they’d have to go through all these HCs
The top few coordinators
A couple nfl guys

I speculate fleck would be in the 15-25 range of candidates.


If they know wittingham was available I feel he is an instant top 3 kind of guy. His resume is far superior to everyone I saw mentioned except deboer
 

Some guy said:
Don’t think we will ever know.

A lot of the talk in this thread was about fleck. To get to fleck they’d have to go through all these HCs
The top few coordinators
A couple nfl guys

I speculate fleck would be in the 15-25 range of candidates.


If they know wittingham was available I feel he is an instant top 3 kind of guy. His resume is far superior to everyone I saw mentioned except deboer
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Then why did they wait 30 years to hire him? Just so bizarre to me, that this just suddenly happens out of no where. I can't get past it. Things like that that just suddenly happen after never happening forever, don't pass my smell test. My nose may be broken
 

GopherGrit said:
Then why did they wait 30 years to hire him? Just so bizarre to me, that this just suddenly happens out of no where. I can't get past it. Things like that that just suddenly happen after never happening forever, don't pass my smell test. My nose may be broken
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It took 2 weeks to hire him. Whittingham stepped down 2 days after Michigan fired Moore. Most of that time was also the recruiting dead period.

That's not a long time when I'm sure Michigan had a few others in mind which would have also likely affected where Whittingham ended up.
 

GopherGrit said:
Then why did they wait 30 years to hire him? Just so bizarre to me, that this just suddenly happens out of no where. I can't get past it. Things like that that just suddenly happen after never happening forever, don't pass my smell test. My nose may be broken
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Wittingham wouldn’t have been a no brainer hire in 1995? So I have no idea what you’re saying


If someone says wittingham is a bad hire they could literally say the same thing about any hire Michigan could’ve made except if they got saban.


I don’t know if he’s guaranteed to win 10+ every year but I feel pretty confident in 9+
And not sure anyone is a guaranteed 10+ wins outside of saban
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
It took 2 weeks to hire him. Whittingham stepped down 2 days after Michigan fired Moore. Most of that time was also the recruiting dead period.

That's not a long time when I'm sure Michigan had a few others in mind which would have also likely affected where Whittingham ended up.
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Scalley was named head coach in waiting July 2024. I admit that that announcement said at the time that there was no plan yet for Whittingham to step down.

Whittingham announced publicly on Dec 12, which I assume is the two weeks you're referencing.


Still, my point was much more a point of: if he was such an obviously good candidate for a top tier P4 job, then why have none of them pried him away from Utah, until only just now?
 

Some guy said:
Wittingham wouldn’t have been a no brainer hire in 1995? So I have no idea what you’re saying


If someone says wittingham is a bad hire they could literally say the same thing about any hire Michigan could’ve made except if they got saban.


I don’t know if he’s guaranteed to win 10+ every year but I feel pretty confident in 9+
And not sure anyone is a guaranteed 10+ wins outside of saban
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2023 he would not have been a good hire, but in 2025 it just suddenly clicked?

No, OK, what about 2015? Good then? No? 2018? 2008?

I'm just wondering when it all clicked, and suddenly this guy is an obvious top 3 hire for a place like Michigan.


My point is, if he's that good now, then he's been that good for at least 10 years, probably more. Yet, no blue blood ever succeeded, or as far as we know even tried, until just suddenly now ...
 

By the way, you guys know by now, I'm a weird guy. I think some weird things, that not many others think.

So, don't get too upset by them. :)
 

GopherGrit said:
Scalley was named head coach in waiting July 2024. I admit that that announcement said at the time that there was no plan yet for Whittingham to step down.

Whittingham announced publicly on Dec 12, which I assume is the two weeks you're referencing.


Still, my point was much more a point of: if he was such an obviously good candidate for a top tier P4 job, then why have none of them pried him away from Utah, until only just now?
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Utah didn't have a lot of money and he stepped down the day after Utah announced the deal with the private equity firm. Anyone who's worked for private equity knows the pain that can come with that.

Also Utah in the Big 12 is not as attractive as Utah in the Pac 12.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Utah didn't have a lot of money and he stepped down the day after Utah announced the deal with the private equity firm. Anyone who's worked for private equity knows the pain that can come with that.

Also Utah in the Big 12 is not as attractive as Utah in the Pac 12.
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I forgot about the PE thing. That's an interesting bit to the story, for sure. Maybe you're right, and that was the reason that it was now.

Agreed on Big 12 vs Pac 12 (at least, what it was at the end)


None of that then explains Michigan swooping in to scoop him up, at all. In my twisted book
 

GopherGrit said:
2023 he would not have been a good hire, but in 2025 it just suddenly clicked?

No, OK, what about 2015? Good then? No? 2018? 2008?

I'm just wondering when it all clicked, and suddenly this guy is an obvious top 3 hire for a place like Michigan.


My point is, if he's that good now, then he's been that good for at least 10 years, probably more. Yet, no blue blood ever succeeded, or as far as we know even tried, until just suddenly now ...
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Wittingham has been a top 15-20 coach in college football for well over 10 years.

You can feel free to think he hasn’t been but you’d be wrong.



It doesn’t mean he will be successful at Michigan
He’s obviously a top 3 type guy of the guys mentioned for Michigan, they may have had others.
His resume dwarfs everyone’s I’ve seen mentioned except deBoer
 

GopherGrit said:
2023 he would not have been a good hire, but in 2025 it just suddenly clicked?
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2023 he would’ve been a great hire
GopherGrit said:
No, OK, what about 2015? Good then? No? 2018? 2008?
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2015 he would’ve been a great hire
2018 he would’ve been a great hire
2008 he would’ve been a great hire
GopherGrit said:
I'm just wondering when it all clicked, and suddenly this guy is an obvious top 3 hire for a place like Michigan.


My point is, if he's that good now, then he's been that good for at least 10 years, probably more. Yet, no blue blood ever succeeded, or as far as we know even tried, until just suddenly now ...
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What’s your question?
I don’t get what you’re even saying here.
 

My point is that I think Michigan completely and totally F'ed things up hiring Moore, they had to can him after what happened (zero question there), and were kinda screwed over on hiring any kind of major candidate ... so they reached and grabbed a guy who is a square peg for a round hole. Probably had to offer him a huge amount of money to get him not to retire.

Maybe it will work out, who knows.
 

GopherGrit said:
My point is that I think Michigan completely and totally F'ed things up hiring Moore, they had to can him after what happened (zero question there), and were kinda screwed over on hiring any kind of major candidate ... so they reached and grabbed a guy who is a square peg for a round hole. Probably had to offer him a huge amount of money to get him not to retire.

Maybe it will work out, who knows.
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I agree with messing up on hiring moore
I agree it may be a square peg and a round hole and may not work out


But to say it isn’t on paper as good as they can do is insane.
They weren’t hiring anyone with a better resume
He still may fail to attain what they want
 

Some guy said:
I agree with messing up on hiring moore
I agree it may be a square peg and a round hole and may not work out


But to say it isn’t on paper as good as they can do is insane.
They weren’t hiring anyone with a better resume
He still may fail to attain what they want
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OK, I think we're mostly on the same page.

I think there are a lot of people, talented people, who would like to take a crack at being HC at a place like Michigan. Just maybe not right at this very second
 

I guess there is also some thought that Utah is/was pushing Whittingham out before he was ready, so that they didn't lose Scalley.
 

GopherGrit said:
OK, I think we're mostly on the same page.

I think there are a lot of people, talented people, who would like to take a crack at being HC at a place like Michigan. Just maybe not right at this very second
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Wittingham is a much more conventional and safer hire.
But there are probably 15-20 coordinators at the fbs level right now that are going to be better head coaches than Wittingham in 2033

Based on pure statistics of Us life expectancy there is like an 18% chance Wittingham will be dead in 2033
 

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