All Things Nolan Winter Recruitment Thread (Class of 2023, Gophers Offered, Son of Trevor)

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topos said:
I'm much more disappointed that going "all in" on Winter and Evans meant backing off of Chatman. It seemed to me there was a much bigger need for a true PG, but maybe that's what the staff needed to do to secure the Christie commit. It seems like we have a lot of underclassmen, 6'7"/6'8" guys, that are 3/4 material and that Winter would have been more of a "nice to add" vs. a "must get."

If we secure the Evans commit in a few weeks, all will be well, and 2023 is a great class (including the Betts reclass).
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The back off on Chatman wasn't by choice. It was clear message to them that he wasn't coming here that's why they pushed more on Christie. Agree with the bolded statement
 
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Love everything Ben Johnson is doing, but we need to win games to be able to "lock the borders". He's choosing a well established program over one that is in the making. I'm thinking there were a lot of factors going into this change, including Betts essentially getting a head start on him. The third player from Lakeville North going to Wisco, just brutal. Oh well, I know Ben and our Minnesota boys will absolutely bring it against Illinois, Ohio State, and Wisco. Unreal we are competing against 4 other teams in the B1G with a Minnesota player on their roster.
 




GopherWeatherGuy said:
Actually it was 7 over the last two years and 4 of them went to other B1G schools if Winter chooses Wisconsin.

Payne, Carrington, Holloman, Heide, King, Chatman, Winter
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Ola-Joseph doesn't count? I will agree with Winter & Chatman but Holloman, Heide, & King were well established recruits and had relationships with the other coaches. The late bloomers we got because they weren't being recruited the same as those other guys. 2024 will be a bigger litmus test. Asuma, McAndrews, & Mekkonen are all high on the Gophers radar and if we can't pull any then it's a bad look. Freitag isn't a priority for a variety of non-basketball reasons.
 


Badger and gopher fan and alum opinion here: I’m equally as unexcited about winter joining UW as I would be if he joined the gophers. I think the uproar on this forum right now is 95% ego related, because players ranked #175 don’t often light the world on fire. He’s a mediocre get, even if he turns out to be an all big ten performer.

IMO, if BJ signs Evans, winter would end up being a huge let down as the third member of this class. Momentum is hard to come by, and if you have two 4-5 star players in a class, you better keep aiming higher. I understand all about the depth that we need to build with guys who grow into productive upper classmen (which is what guys with winters rating project to be), but tournament runs are made with 4 and 5 star players.
 



GopherPlaya said:
Ola-Joseph doesn't count? I will agree with Winter & Chatman but Holloman, Heide, & King were well established recruits and had relationships with the other coaches. The late bloomers we got because they weren't being recruited the same as those other guys. 2024 will be a bigger litmus test. Asuma, McAndrews, & Mekkonen are all high on the Gophers radar and if we can't pull any then it's a bad look. Freitag isn't a priority for a variety of non-basketball reasons.
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well he did prep @ Compass in Arizona
 

GopherPlaya said:
Ola-Joseph doesn't count? I will agree with Winter & Chatman but Holloman, Heide, & King were well established recruits and had relationships with the other coaches. The late bloomers we got because they weren't being recruited the same as those other guys. 2024 will be a bigger litmus test. Asuma, McAndrews, & Mekkonen are all high on the Gophers radar and if we can't pull any then it's a bad look. Freitag isn't a priority for a variety of non-basketball reasons.
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Ola-Joseph is a grey area since he didn't play in MN his SR year. I'm also not sure he ends up at a high major if Minnesota doesn't take him. Payne and Carrington were late bloomers, but they didn't have any relationships with other coaches?

Fair or not fair, Ben wasn't hired because of his past coaching success because he has none. He was hired based on his relationships with MN high school coaches and perceived ability to land higher profile MN recruits. He was expected to land at least one or two more of the guys I mentioned.

So far it hasn't worked out. I don't believe you can be competitive in the B1G by recruiting a roster full of late bloomers and mid major transfers. Year one was a failure. Year 2 looks nearly as bleak. The way it's going, year 3 might not be much better either. It shouldn't take 4 or 5 years to rebuild in basketball. Most football coaches don't get that long anymore and it's much more difficult to build a program there.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
Ola-Joseph is a grey area since he didn't play in MN his SR year. I'm also not sure he ends up at a high major if Minnesota doesn't take him. Payne and Carrington were late bloomers, but they didn't have any relationships with other coaches?

Fair or not fair, Ben wasn't hired because of his past coaching success because he has none. He was hired based on his relationships with MN high school coaches and perceived ability to land higher profile MN recruits. He was expected to land at least one or two more of the guys I mentioned.

So far it hasn't worked out. I don't believe you can be competitive in the B1G by recruiting a roster full of late bloomers and mid major transfers. Year one was a failure. Year 2 looks nearly as bleak. The way it's going, year 3 might not be much better either. It shouldn't take 4 or 5 years to rebuild in basketball. Most football coaches don't get that long anymore and it's much more difficult to build a program there.
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Neither did Heide and he was at Osseo when he committed
 



Saying this is a big loss is ridiculous.

Saying Trevor Winter was a good player is delusional.

If Wisconsin pulls a Coffey or Oturu type kid out of Minnesota...then I'll start to worry.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
If Winter goes to Wisconsin, Ben is 2 for 7 on MN kids with MN offers that went to other high major schools. 4 of them to other B1G schools which is troubling.

So that's a 72% miss rate today, it won't take much to get him to 80% if he misses next year.
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I’m struggling with your math. We had 3 MN kids in last years class alone? I think it’s fair to say they lost out on Chatman, Holloman, Winter, and King as those are guys they recruited hard. They offered Watson and Krapke, but those offers were pulled and they stopped recruiting them.

2022- 3/5
2023- 0/2

We will see what happens next year for sure, but he hasn’t missed much imo.
 

If Winter doesn't go to MN, that opens up a scholarship for someone else.

maybe a portal PG that would fill a position of need?

there are a lot of basketball players out there. someone will take that spot. that someone may prove to be better than Winter or not.
 


Gopherfan84 said:
I’m struggling with your math. We had 3 MN kids in last years class alone? I think it’s fair to say they lost out on Chatman, Holloman, Winter, and King as those are guys they recruited hard. They offered Watson and Krapke, but those offers were pulled and they stopped recruiting them.

2022- 3/5
2023- 0/2

We will see what happens next year for sure, but he hasn’t missed much imo.
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I would add that Holloman and King were already heavy leans to MSU and ISU respectively when Johnson was hired. He didn't have time to build these relationships.

Izzo had been working Holloman for a couple of years. King had an established relationship with Otzelberger. You can't expect kids to throw away the relationship AND gamble on a first year head coach without seeing a single game.

Johnson was hired on March 21, 2021.
King committed to ISU on April 20.
Holloman committed in early Aug.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Ola-Joseph is a grey area since he didn't play in MN his SR year. I'm also not sure he ends up at a high major if Minnesota doesn't take him. Payne and Carrington were late bloomers, but they didn't have any relationships with other coaches?

Fair or not fair, Ben wasn't hired because of his past coaching success because he has none. He was hired based on his relationships with MN high school coaches and perceived ability to land higher profile MN recruits. He was expected to land at least one or two more of the guys I mentioned.

So far it hasn't worked out. I don't believe you can be competitive in the B1G by recruiting a roster full of late bloomers and mid major transfers. Year one was a failure. Year 2 looks nearly as bleak. The way it's going, year 3 might not be much better either. It shouldn't take 4 or 5 years to rebuild in basketball. Most football coaches don't get that long anymore and it's much more difficult to build a program there.
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Heide went to a prep school out of state as well & Ola Joseph committed before leaving. However, Payne didn't get any interest until last summer, and Carrington wasn't getting much interest last year.

The recruits you are talking about weren't realistic in year 1. He got 3 Minnesota kids. I am confused about how our recruiting this year is bleak when we are getting better players than any in-state recruit not named Taisom. When did getting MN kids become the requirement for the rebuild? I watched Betts destroy D1MN. He was one of the top 2 players on the court that game. Christie is better than any MN kid in this class - Taisom, and if we get Evans, he and Taisom are equally rated prospects. Winter teams haven't won nothin in high school with another high major D1 kid on the team and a HOF coach who gets to state every year. Winter would have been a good addition, but to act like he was or is some game-changer doesn't make sense to me. It would be nice to win with in-state talent, but this was one of the weakest MN classes we have had in a while. Most were low major to D2 Level kids. There is reason why Grassroots, Pulley & D1MN struggled nationally for AAU this summer
 





Dad lamented a while back the fact that Minnesota kids aren't staying home and going to Minnesota.

So where does his kid go, why Wisconsin, of course.
 

JayBobDobbins said:
stopped over at Buckyville, and their posts seem to also say that he's headed there. I'm a bit surprised that he didn't pick MN.

I wouldn't blame this on Ben though. I'm giving him some time. If he didn't want to play at a "city school", well, there sure isn't anything Ben could do about that.
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Lakeville is basically western Wisconsin.

No biggie, I've never cared for Lakeville and it has nothing to do with sports.
 

topos said:
I'm much more disappointed that going "all in" on Winter and Evans meant backing off of Chatman. It seemed to me there was a much bigger need for a true PG, but maybe that's what the staff needed to do to secure the Christie commit. It seems like we have a lot of underclassmen, 6'7"/6'8" guys, that are 3/4 material and that Winter would have been more of a "nice to add" vs. a "must get."

If we secure the Evans commit in a few weeks, all will be well, and 2023 is a great class (including the Betts reclass).
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wut
 


If Chatman picked Wisconsin...that would be concerning. Or Matthew Hurt and highly ranked players.

But WI is always pulling the exact same type of player out of MN...and I don't think it's a big deal.

The only recent exception was Davison. As in his height. But we didn't even recruit him.
 

GopherPlaya said:
Heide went to a prep school out of state as well & Ola Joseph committed before leaving. However, Payne didn't get any interest until last summer, and Carrington wasn't getting much interest last year.

The recruits you are talking about weren't realistic in year 1. He got 3 Minnesota kids. I am confused about how our recruiting this year is bleak when we are getting better players than any in-state recruit not named Taisom. When did getting MN kids become the requirement for the rebuild? I watched Betts destroy D1MN. He was one of the top 2 players on the court that game. Christie is better than any MN kid in this class - Taisom, and if we get Evans, he and Taisom are equally rated prospects. Winter teams haven't won nothin in high school with another high major D1 kid on the team and a HOF coach who gets to state every year. Winter would have been a good addition, but to act like he was or is some game-changer doesn't make sense to me. It would be nice to win with in-state talent, but this was one of the weakest MN classes we have had in a while. Most were low major to D2 Level kids. There is reason why Grassroots, Pulley & D1MN struggled nationally for AAU this summer
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People will get over the provincialism once some of these guys play and produce. So much judgement and we’ve not even seen our first true recruiting class play. Once people see Betts is better than Winter it will help. A lot of people whine about Illikainen, but getting Murphy instead allow most to forget
 

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