All Things Gopher Players Appeals Process

[beatles]

Wrong. A 50% success rate looks pretty good. The conviction rate in the criminal courts has averaged approximately 84% in Texas, 82% in California, 72% in New York, 67% in North Carolina, and 59% in Florida. And prosecutors usually only pursue cases they think they can win. The U had no choice but to have hearings for the 10 players. The six players who have had their suspensions or expulsions upheld are now going to have a more difficult time claiming they weren't given due process.

You honestly think this makes the EOAA and their process look good??

 

[MissouriGopher]

Are you really that dumb? Comparing a conviction rate with an appeal overturn rate? The 'conviction rate' here was 100% percent. The rate at which they were overturned on appeal is currently 50%.

The bottom line is this: once both parties had their cases heard, the decision changed 50% of the time. That is a HUGE indictment of the EOAA.

...now consider how many poor schmucks don't have the resources or public standing to get lawyers for their appeal. This is a massive strike against the EOAA.

I don't think you understand. The EOAA doesn't punish anybody. There was no appeal. The report was sent to the respective administrative body and conclusions were drawn after a hearing.

 

[PMWinSTP]

If you have vehemently opposed the process it is hard to acknowledge that the results show that this was not a kangaroo court.

That's just a silly statement. Silly.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I don't think you understand. The EOAA doesn't punish anybody. There was no appeal. The report was sent to the respective administrative body and conclusions were drawn after a hearing.

You're being sarcastic here, yes?

 

[jrock]

So a 50% percent success rate for the EOAA. That's not speculating on due process, that's a huge red flag fact. It's something worth writing to the Regents about.

This. 100%.

 

[MissouriGopher]

You're being sarcastic here, yes?

Nope!

 

[UpnorthGo4]

You honestly think this makes the EOAA and their process look good??

Absolutely, I do. Most GopherHolers thought the EOAA investigation was pile of lies put together by women who hate men. Anyone who read the entire report would know how much work and detail they put into the report and their effort to look at what happened from all sides. The EOAA was not involved in the hearing process. They have been out it it since they completed their investigation. The U's Student Code of Conduct hearing process is administered by a different office at the U. Most GopherHolers who posted on the subject thought the hearings would be a travesty of a mockery of a sham (in the words of Woody Allen). It didn't turn out that way, did it? All 10 players got due process especially if one or more of the remaining six win their appeal to the provost.

 

[Spoofin]

Absolutely, I do. Most GopherHolers thought the EOAA investigation was pile of lies put together by women who hate men. The EOAA was not involved the hearing process. They have been out it since they completed their investigation. The U's Student Code of Conduct hearing process is administered by a different office at the U. Most GopherHolers who posted on the subject thought the hearings would be a travesty of a mockery of a sham (in the words of Woody Allen. It didn't turn out that way, did it? All 10 players got due process especially if one or more of the remaining six win their appeal to the provost.

So, in your World if the cases are dismissed that proves due process? You a smart one.

As I said before, wait for the lawsuits to be settled before speaking more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gogogopher]

Wrong. A 50% success rate looks pretty good. The conviction rate in the criminal courts has averaged approximately 84% in Texas, 82% in California, 72% in New York, 67% in North Carolina, and 59% in Florida. And prosecutors usually only pursue cases they think they can win. The U had no choice but to have hearings for the 10 players. The six players who have had their suspensions or expulsions upheld are now going to have a more difficult time claiming they weren't given due process.

interesting stats

 

[GopherinPhilly]

I don't think you understand. The EOAA doesn't punish anybody. There was no appeal. The report was sent to the respective administrative body and conclusions were drawn after a hearing.

You got that wrong Mizzou. The EOAA made recommendations to the admin and those recommendations were accepted the ten students were notified of their punishment and had 5 days to file for a hearing. Now after that hearing has concluded, either party may request a review by the provost.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Nope!

Then go read the cover letter from the leaked document. Please, go read it.

 

[Gogogopher]

So, in your World if the cases are dismissed that proves due process? You a smart one.

As I said before, wait for the lawsuits to be settled before speaking more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

if there are law suits that are settled, they probably won't disclose the amount paid, and parties settle suits for different reasons. lawyers are expensive, so sometimes the smart move is to just pay out some cash. It might be worth it to pay 10,000 just to be done with it. so you can't infer much from a case settling.

 

[bottlebass]

if there are law suits that are settled, they probably won't disclose the amount paid.

GH finds everything out.

 

[Gogogopher]

GH finds everything out.

sorry I edited my post before i saw your response, i wanted to be clearer about what i meant.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

My quick take: today's outcome suggests that the U had at least some justification for the suspensions of the original group of 5.

BUT - it also suggests that the U screwed up by adding the second group of 5. Those players had their names, pictures - and yes, their reputations, splashed across the media. A lot of people, including several on this board, concluded that they were "rapists," or at the very least, had committed violations serious enough to require suspensions.

Whoever at the U - Coyle, Kaler, etc, made the decision to suspend the second group of 5 should be facing some serious questioning from the Board of Regents.

If the story had started and ended with the first group of 5, this would not have become such a big story, or become so heated on the Hole and media in general. The second group of 5 was overreach by the U, and someone should have to answer for it.

 

[GreasyGopher]

Can the provost reinstate any of the overturned punishments?

 

[MissouriGopher]

You got that wrong Mizzou. The EOAA made recommendations to the admin and those recommendations were accepted the ten students were notified of their punishment and had 5 days to file for a hearing. Now after that hearing has concluded, either party may request a review by the provost.

No. The punishment stands if they choose not to defend themselves. Just like a default judgement in a court of law. The hearing was the first step. Now they (the accused and accuser) can file an appeal with the provost.

And for those telling me to read the cover letter, I've read the whole report.

 

[UpnorthGo4]

No. The punishment stands if they choose not to defend themselves. Just like a default judgement in a court of law. The hearing was the first step. Now they (the accused and accuser) can file an appeal with the provost.

And for those telling me to read the cover letter, I've read the whole report.

You are correct Missouri. PhillyGopher has it wrong, as usual. But I won't say that he is ignorant because that can get you banned when you say it to some people in GopherHole. So I will only say that Philly is misinformed. The EOAA only did an investigation and made recommendations for each of the 10 players. Kaler made the decision to suspend them from the football team pending the outcome of the hearings. Now the appeals begin for the players who are not happy with the result of the hearing. If their appeal is upheld by the provost then the can sue the U in federal courts. It's called "due process" and that is what the U is giving them.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I don't think you understand. The EOAA doesn't punish anybody. There was no appeal. The report was sent to the respective administrative body and conclusions were drawn after a hearing.

The letter clearly states a decison had been made. States it right in the letter. Conclusions, and a decisions were absolutely drawn before the hearing. During the hearing, those conclusions and that decision were questioned and argued, and half those conclusions and decisions were overturned or reduced.

 

[Ewert86PC]

Here is the X factor.

Baylor's regents and administration have shown they'll shamelessly defend their university to the end.

The U.... I think we've got folks who might like to dork up athletics for the ability to climb up on a moral pedestal and declare how their principals are so "Much bigger than football".....

+100

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[UpnorthGo4]

The letter clearly states a decison had been made. States it right in the letter. Conclusions, and a decisions were absolutely drawn before the hearing. During the hearing, those conclusions and that decision were questioned and argued, and half those conclusions and decisions were overturned or reduced.

Wrong. The EOAA makes recommendations based on their investigation. Nothing more. The EOAA has not been involved since they completed their investigation. There has been a fundamental misunderstanding about the Title IX and Student Code of Conduct disciplinary process in GopherHole from the very beginning. Some of us have tried to correct that for some time but have been completely blown off by the fanboys who decided what happened back in September and haven't changed their opinions since.

 

[PMWinSTP]

No. The punishment stands if they choose not to defend themselves. Just like a default judgement in a court of law. The hearing was the first step. Now they (the accused and accuser) can file an appeal with the provost.

And for those telling me to read the cover letter, I've read the whole report.

Additionally, requesting a hearing is, by definition, an appeal.

 

[Ewert86PC]

UpNorth, CoMN - you must be up in arms that Winfield Jr. is not being expelled. Since neither of you ever answered questions I have asked you, do you support his being back or do you still want him expelled? You have been out for blood the whole time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It's their biological perogative to ignore the validity of anything associated with the Y chromodome.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[UpnorthGo4]

Additionally, requesting a hearing is, by definition, an appeal.

Wrong, again. A hearing is a hearing and an appeal is an appeal. They are NEVER the same thing. The EOAA made recommendations based on their investigation and Kaler suspended the players pending the outcome of the hearing in accordance with the U's Student Code of Conduct procedures. Most schools in America do it the same way.

 

[Tucker32]

Wrong. A 50% success rate looks pretty good. The conviction rate in the criminal courts has averaged approximately 84% in Texas, 82% in California, 72% in New York, 67% in North Carolina, and 59% in Florida. And prosecutors usually only pursue cases they think they can win. The U had no choice but to have hearings for the 10 players. The six players who have had their suspensions or expulsions upheld are now going to have a more difficult time claiming they weren't given due process.

Are you really this naive and stupid? Just stop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PMWinSTP]

Wrong. The EOAA makes recommendations based on their investigation. Nothing more. The EOAA has not been involved since they completed their investigation. There has been a fundamental misunderstanding about the Title IX and Student Code of Conduct disciplinary process in GopherHole from the very beginning. Some of us have tried to correct that for some time but have been completely blown off by the fanboys who decided what happened back in September and haven't changed their opinions since.

No misunderstanding from me, at all. In fact posted multiple times in the past months that the EOAA recommends, the Office of Student Conduct, which sent out the letters, makes the decision.

Get a clue.

 

[Tucker32]

Absolutely, I do. Most GopherHolers thought the EOAA investigation was pile of lies put together by women who hate men. Anyone who read the entire report would know how much work and detail they put into the report and their effort to look at what happened from all sides. The EOAA was not involved in the hearing process. They have been out it it since they completed their investigation. The U's Student Code of Conduct hearing process is administered by a different office at the U. Most GopherHolers who posted on the subject thought the hearings would be a travesty of a mockery of a sham (in the words of Woody Allen). It didn't turn out that way, did it? All 10 players got due process especially if one or more of the remaining six win their appeal to the provost.

So much work into it they didn't worry about much of the accuracy, we come to find. How about actually following up with the players, such as Shenault, to confirm you have the right information before throwing them under the bus.

And, they didn't simply recommend - there was a ruling that became final unless the players requested a hearing (an appeal of the ruling).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PMWinSTP]

Wrong, again. A hearing is a hearing and an appeal is an appeal. They are NEVER the same thing. The EOAA made recommendations based on their investigation and Kaler suspended the players pending the outcome of the hearing in accordance with the U's Student Code of Conduct procedures. Most schools in America do it the same way.

Nope. Decision was made and delivered, request was made and a different body heard arguments and reviewed evidence in the hearing and made decisions. That is the classic definition of an appeal.

 

[West Fargo Gopher Fan]

Sorry to interrupt the argument but who got suspended and who didn't? I dont want to read all 62 pages

 

[Iceland12]

Sorry to interrupt the argument but who got suspended and who didn't? I dont want to read all 62 pages

Winfield Jr., Kobe McCray, Antonio Shenault, Seth Green all had their suspensions lifted. Mark Williams had his suspension upheld. Carlton Djam had his explusion reduced to a suspension.

Ray Buford, KiAnte Hardin, Dior Johnson, Tamarion Johnson still expelled.