All Things Former Gophers Thread

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Gold Vision said:
Carr is exactly the type of player this team is missing. Mashburn and Gabe as well.
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Carr appears to be more disciplined then he was here. Here his dribbling until the shot clock would almost expire then rush up a shot was aggravating.
 






bga1 said:
He made some fatal mistakes early. His whole system was based on getting high end athletes. He shot for the moon on 5 stars his first year and missed on all and then had to settle on kids with varying character or that didn't fit his system. That class busted and then he got another class that had more talent but also some folks who were light on character. He passed over some locals to get them- sending the local influencers packing.

He lacked the patience here and drank his own kool-aide that he could get this done fast and took shortcuts. He wasn't a bad coach and he will win again somewhere.
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In 2015 we took Jarvis Johnson and passed on Alex Illikainen. Then in 2016 we got Michael Hurt and Amir Coffey, who I think were the top 2 players in Minnesota that year. The "Pitino can't get the local kids" talk started with the 2017 class with Gary Trent, Nate Reuvers, Brad Davison, McKinley Wright, and Theo John. We also passed on Sacar Anim in 2016, though he seems to be the rare local recruit who went high major whom no one is really upset we didn't get. If the local basketball coaches decided they didn't like Pitino prior to the 2017 class, then I'm not really sure why.

Kevin Dorsey and Zach Lofton could be considered character shortcuts. I don't recall much wrong with Dorsey other than the sex tape leak, but it looks like he left Minnesota and just didn't play basketball again, so maybe there was something wrong there. And Zach Lofton was a local kid, so I wouldn't think local basketball coaches would be grumbling about us taking him. DaQuein McNeil too, but he was brought in right after Pitino got hired, and we didn't pass on any local kids for him.

I do remember Pitino aiming for the stars in recruiting somewhat early on (which arguably Ben Johnson is doing somewhat now, albeit with greater success) with the offers to Josh Perkins and Isaiah Whitehead, with Whitehead ending up at Seton Hall after they hired one of his coaches as an assistant. But Riley LaChance and Wade Baldwin were a couple good ones he was after for the 2014 class. Both went to Vanderbilt, LaChance averaged 11 points a game over 4 years and 41% from 3, and Baldwin was a first round draft pick after his sophomore year. Both were high 3 star/low 4 star type recruits. Bonzie Colson was also in that class and became a star for Notre Dame.
 



GoodasGold said:
Carr looked relaxed and happy sinking free throws (along with his teammates) late in tonight’s game. Free throws are like free points! I wish Gophers could spend them.
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Gophers are generous. They give their free throws away.
 

Cayman said:
In 2015 we took Jarvis Johnson and passed on Alex Illikainen. Then in 2016 we got Michael Hurt and Amir Coffey, who I think were the top 2 players in Minnesota that year. The "Pitino can't get the local kids" talk started with the 2017 class with Gary Trent, Nate Reuvers, Brad Davison, McKinley Wright, and Theo John. We also passed on Sacar Anim in 2016, though he seems to be the rare local recruit who went high major whom no one is really upset we didn't get. If the local basketball coaches decided they didn't like Pitino prior to the 2017 class, then I'm not really sure why.

Kevin Dorsey and Zach Lofton could be considered character shortcuts. I don't recall much wrong with Dorsey other than the sex tape leak, but it looks like he left Minnesota and just didn't play basketball again, so maybe there was something wrong there. And Zach Lofton was a local kid, so I wouldn't think local basketball coaches would be grumbling about us taking him. DaQuein McNeil too, but he was brought in right after Pitino got hired, and we didn't pass on any local kids for him.

I do remember Pitino aiming for the stars in recruiting somewhat early on (which arguably Ben Johnson is doing somewhat now, albeit with greater success) with the offers to Josh Perkins and Isaiah Whitehead, with Whitehead ending up at Seton Hall after they hired one of his coaches as an assistant. But Riley LaChance and Wade Baldwin were a couple good ones he was after for the 2014 class. Both went to Vanderbilt, LaChance averaged 11 points a game over 4 years and 41% from 3, and Baldwin was a first round draft pick after his sophomore year. Both were high 3 star/low 4 star type recruits. Bonzie Colson was also in that class and became a star for Notre Dame.
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Word on the street is the anti Pitino wave started after McKinley Wright was passed over for Jelly. Some even said that decision was the functional end of Ben’s relationship with Pitino. His local relationships were never great, but seemed to become irredeemable at that point.
 


Cayman said:
In 2015 we took Jarvis Johnson and passed on Alex Illikainen. Then in 2016 we got Michael Hurt and Amir Coffey, who I think were the top 2 players in Minnesota that year. The "Pitino can't get the local kids" talk started with the 2017 class with Gary Trent, Nate Reuvers, Brad Davison, McKinley Wright, and Theo John. We also passed on Sacar Anim in 2016, though he seems to be the rare local recruit who went high major whom no one is really upset we didn't get. If the local basketball coaches decided they didn't like Pitino prior to the 2017 class, then I'm not really sure why.

Kevin Dorsey and Zach Lofton could be considered character shortcuts. I don't recall much wrong with Dorsey other than the sex tape leak, but it looks like he left Minnesota and just didn't play basketball again, so maybe there was something wrong there. And Zach Lofton was a local kid, so I wouldn't think local basketball coaches would be grumbling about us taking him. DaQuein McNeil too, but he was brought in right after Pitino got hired, and we didn't pass on any local kids for him.

I do remember Pitino aiming for the stars in recruiting somewhat early on (which arguably Ben Johnson is doing somewhat now, albeit with greater success) with the offers to Josh Perkins and Isaiah Whitehead, with Whitehead ending up at Seton Hall after they hired one of his coaches as an assistant. But Riley LaChance and Wade Baldwin were a couple good ones he was after for the 2014 class. Both went to Vanderbilt, LaChance averaged 11 points a game over 4 years and 41% from 3, and Baldwin was a first round draft pick after his sophomore year. Both were high 3 star/low 4 star type recruits. Bonzie Colson was also in that class and became a star for Notre Dame.
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Great post!
 




bc2211 said:
Only on gopherhole is there no place for the point guard who plays the most minutes for the number #2 team in the country.

Beard has done a great job with him. Then again he’s also got to be about 27 years old by now.
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Has he graduated more than once? 🤔
 

NIL is probably going to keep more TJD and Marcus Carr types in College longer. If you're a borderline NBA guy or a guy who is destined for Europe or the G League, there's definitely schools that can give you an NIL deal that's bigger than a G League or most Euro contracts
 

Zeppelin Gopher said:
I don't think the tournament run in 2019 qualifies as a "surprise run".

If anything, that team underachieved only going 9-11 in the Big Ten.
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I agree, but the surprise was how the season finished. They took another February nose dive losing 6 of 7 including losses to Nebraska and Rutgers. They were 7-10 in the conference at that point and Pitino looked dead in the water.

Then they beat 11th ranked Purdue twice, including in the BTT where they advanced to the semis. That was the surprise and is what got them into the NCAA tournament and saved Pitino's job for another year.
 

bc2211 said:
Only on gopherhole is there no place for the point guard who plays the most minutes for the number #2 team in the country.

Beard has done a great job with him. Then again he’s also got to be about 27 years old by now.
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Beard worked his magic here for sure. Glad to see Carr figure it out and take the coaching
 

bga1 said:
There is a reason this comes up. Ben might be successful here- I see some good signs and I like him. However, the situation is comparable in that, with Pitino, we put a young, promising, but totally untested coach into the toughest job in the Big Ten other than NW, historically. He obviously failed and everyone wrote him off as a garbage coach. He can coach.

The job that has to be done here to win big is epic. Tubby Smith, HOF coach, couldn't do it. What is happening on this board is what I feared when he was hired. At the first sign of failure people bail, thinking that the young coach won't be able to get it done. No track record of having done so.
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That was precious. You bailed at the press conference introducing the new coach.

In retrospect, Tubby was looking for a comfy job where he could slide into retirement. He also had a crappy staff. We got 60 year old Tubby, not 35 year old Tubby. Pitino has been well chronicled.

An experienced head coach with a high major winning pedigree was not going to come here. Ben was and is a very good hire.
 


cjbfbp said:
Whatever he does at New Mexico is irrelevant to the question of whether he should have been fired here. He had 8 years here, more than he would have gotten at most P6 schools.
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Yeah, he had a full 8 years here and it was clear things ere not moving in the right direction with the program.

When did anyone ever bash Mashburn? Everyone would have loved to have him stay but he was tied to Pitino and elected to follow him.

And is it just me or does it feel like Carr has been in college basketball for like 15 years? How does he still have eligibility left? :)
 

jamiche said:
That was precious. You bailed at the press conference introducing the new coach.

In retrospect, Tubby was looking for a comfy job where he could slide into retirement. He also had a crappy staff. We got 60 year old Tubby, not 35 year old Tubby. Pitino has been well chronicled.

An experienced head coach with a high major winning pedigree was not going to come here. Ben was and is a very good hire.
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Clearly Tubby was in a coast mode that got even more complicated when he got cancer. I don't think using him as an example that even a great coach can't win here is very compelling.

Accusing someone of "bailing" at the press conference because he disagreed with the hire is inaccurate at best and disingenuous at worst, and trying to forge a narrative. There are A LOT of dedicated fans on this board and elsewhere that didn't like the hire because a lack of head coaching experience. As I recall, no one was demanding "high major" winning pedigree (Musselman was a dream or a nightmare depedning on your perspective, but a phantom nevertheless), but there were options of mid-major winning pedigrees that were available, and perhaps enthusiastic candidates.

Most of us didn't "bail" then and aren't bailing now. The combination of an inexperienced head coach, a league that gets stronger by the season, and the radically changing landscape of college sports that makes developmental program styles more difficult gives even the strongest supporters reason to pause and be concerned. That doesn't mean we're "bailing."

The impatience driving the "supportive but skeptical" middle ground here (including me) is that what we saw as hopeful last year (organized motion offense, consistent effort on defense, etc.) are mostly absent this year. None of that has anything to do with "bailing." Over-simplifying arguments to push a narrative is unhelpful.
 

jamiche said:
That was precious. You bailed at the press conference introducing the new coach.

In retrospect, Tubby was looking for a comfy job where he could slide into retirement. He also had a crappy staff. We got 60 year old Tubby, not 35 year old Tubby. Pitino has been well chronicled.

An experienced head coach with a high major winning pedigree was not going to come here. Ben was and is a very good hire.
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Yes, I would refer people to that other thread if they think Gopher fans are impatient--the thread about how we haven't officially been to the Sweet 16 in 32 years and have won only two NCAA tournament games in the last 23. "Why can't you be more patient?!" they say, as other second-year coaches--some of whom faced rebuilds on the same scale--have their teams performing at a high level.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Yeah, he had a full 8 years here and it was clear things ere not moving in the right direction with the program.

When did anyone ever bash Mashburn? Everyone would have loved to have him stay but he was tied to Pitino and elected to follow him.

And is it just me or does it feel like Carr has been in college basketball for like 15 years? How does he still have eligibility left? :)
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I think there were people here who thought Mash was undisciplined in his shot selection, not unlike a lot of freshman. Also agree that most of us would have been thrilled had he stayed here. Whether he would have fit in with Ben's culture vision is another matter.
 

Holy Man said:
I think there were people here who thought Mash was undisciplined in his shot selection, not unlike a lot of freshman. Also agree that most of us would have been thrilled had he stayed here. Whether he would have fit in with Ben's culture vision is another matter.
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I liked him from the start. Even with his pedigree, he was better than I'd expected. He had a great spark and a lot of promise.
 

Holy Man said:
Clearly Tubby was in a coast mode that got even more complicated when he got cancer. I don't think using him as an example that even a great coach can't win here is very compelling.

Accusing someone of "bailing" at the press conference because he disagreed with the hire is inaccurate at best and disingenuous at worst, and trying to forge a narrative. There are A LOT of dedicated fans on this board and elsewhere that didn't like the hire because a lack of head coaching experience. As I recall, no one was demanding "high major" winning pedigree (Musselman was a dream or a nightmare depedning on your perspective, but a phantom nevertheless), but there were options of mid-major winning pedigrees that were available, and perhaps enthusiastic candidates.

Most of us didn't "bail" then and aren't bailing now. The combination of an inexperienced head coach, a league that gets stronger by the season, and the radically changing landscape of college sports that makes developmental program styles more difficult gives even the strongest supporters reason to pause and be concerned. That doesn't mean we're "bailing."

The impatience driving the "supportive but skeptical" middle ground here (including me) is that what we saw as hopeful last year (organized motion offense, consistent effort on defense, etc.) are mostly absent this year. None of that has anything to do with "bailing." Over-simplifying arguments to push a narrative is unhelpful.
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Actually, I decided to be polite. BGA and a couple of others denounced the selection because it was a "diversity hire" (his words). He knew what I was saying.

The lack of head coaching experience was a reasonable concern. Ben had other qualities, skills and experiences that made the hire a sound risk.

It. is a rapidly changing landscape. Unless the U comes up with a very generous NIL program, recruiting will be dismal for FB and BB.

Your points are reasonable. The team has some talent, but the vibe feels different this year.
 

Holy Man said:
I think there were people here who thought Mash was undisciplined in his shot selection, not unlike a lot of freshman. Also agree that most of us would have been thrilled had he stayed here. Whether he would have fit in with Ben's culture vision is another matter.
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Culture, the most overrated and over used word in sports.
 

Utah is hammering
Holy Man said:
Clearly Tubby was in a coast mode that got even more complicated when he got cancer. I don't think using him as an example that even a great coach can't win here is very compelling.

Accusing someone of "bailing" at the press conference because he disagreed with the hire is inaccurate at best and disingenuous at worst, and trying to forge a narrative. There are A LOT of dedicated fans on this board and elsewhere that didn't like the hire because a lack of head coaching experience. As I recall, no one was demanding "high major" winning pedigree (Musselman was a dream or a nightmare depedning on your perspective, but a phantom nevertheless), but there were options of mid-major winning pedigrees that were available, and perhaps enthusiastic candidates.

Most of us didn't "bail" then and aren't bailing now. The combination of an inexperienced head coach, a league that gets stronger by the season, and the radically changing landscape of college sports that makes developmental program styles more difficult gives even the strongest supporters reason to pause and be concerned. That doesn't mean we're "bailing."

The impatience driving the "supportive but skeptical" middle ground here (including me) is that what we saw as hopeful last year (organized motion offense, consistent effort on defense, etc.) are mostly absent this year. None of that has anything to do with "bailing." Over-simplifying arguments to push a narrative is unhelpful.
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100%. 👍🏼
 

Holy Man said:
Clearly Tubby was in a coast mode that got even more complicated when he got cancer. I don't think using him as an example that even a great coach can't win here is very compelling.

Accusing someone of "bailing" at the press conference because he disagreed with the hire is inaccurate at best and disingenuous at worst, and trying to forge a narrative. There are A LOT of dedicated fans on this board and elsewhere that didn't like the hire because a lack of head coaching experience. As I recall, no one was demanding "high major" winning pedigree (Musselman was a dream or a nightmare depedning on your perspective, but a phantom nevertheless), but there were options of mid-major winning pedigrees that were available, and perhaps enthusiastic candidates.

Most of us didn't "bail" then and aren't bailing now. The combination of an inexperienced head coach, a league that gets stronger by the season, and the radically changing landscape of college sports that makes developmental program styles more difficult gives even the strongest supporters reason to pause and be concerned. That doesn't mean we're "bailing."

The impatience driving the "supportive but skeptical" middle ground here (including me) is that what we saw as hopeful last year (organized motion offense, consistent effort on defense, etc.) are mostly absent this year. None of that has anything to do with "bailing." Over-simplifying arguments to push a narrative is unhelpful.
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This sums up my thoughts on it pretty well. TBH I really wanted Craig Smith and I think had the Pandemic not happened, that would have been the move the previous season. Thought Smith was that combo of being local that seemed important to Coyle and accomplished, with his track record at USD and Utah State. TBH I thought maybe we would hire him and he could poach Ben away from Xavier, since they worked together under Miles in Lincoln. Thought Ben was reach at the time, as I thought about it though, it made sense from a local recruiting stand point and he was able to bring Thorson in which was huge for the Staff. Other than that Ben has impressed me with how he filled out the staff with Jenkins and Kemp, think Jenkins will have some HC opportunities someday if he wants them. I'm hopeful as the Freshman mature, will start to see some of the offensive movement and defensive schemes (and energy we saw at the start of last year) Lot easier to play with energy when you're not thinking, it's also easier to coach upperclassmen with chips on their shoulders too. But Ben's recruits seem like high character guys so I am willing to give it time and see if they get there. This year's team will go as far as Battle, Garcia and Cooper will take it.
 


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