All Things Former Gophers Thread

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Pitino’s biggest mistake was recruiting Isiah Washington instead of Minnesotan McKinley Wright, clearly East Coast player evaluation bias. IWash was a washout more concerned about marketing himself before he ever accomplished anything. Wright shined in the PAC 12 and is a fringe NBA point guard. He would have made the Gophers a much better team.
 

Concerning Marcus Carr, he has lost 20 lbs. which has made him even quicker. Yes, this Gopher team could use someone of his statue.
 

60's Guy said:
Richard Pitino, the guy most all GopherHole posters feel cannot coach at all...somehow has his New Mexico Lobos off to a 7 and 0 start. Pitino inherited virtually no players at a woeful New Mexico but with the addition of transfers and freshmen has his team off to a great start. Plays his dad and Iona in a couple weeks.
Jamal Mashburn Jr averaged 18 ppg last year and is averaging 16 this year with some more scoring help on the roster.

Marcus Carr is the second leading scorer for #2 ranked Texas. Carr leads the team in steals and assists.
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congrats to Pitino. Remember though that he was historically bad here.
 




builtbadgers said:
congrats to Pitino. Remember though that he was historically bad here.
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I’m curious what your reasons are for not thinking Johnny Tauer is the right coach for Saint Thomas. Last year you intimated on several occasions that UST should go get someone better. I think you even had someone specific in mind?

I’ve been a season ticket holder at UST these first two years in D1, and what I’ve observed is Tauer knows what he’s doing, there’s a clear plan, his team plays with great effort, and they play a brand of basketball that is fun to watch.
 

forever a gopher said:
What an odd thread (or at least title/premise). Pitino got more than enough time here and didn't cut it. He moved on, and so did Gopher fans (although apparently not all Gopher fans...). I wish him no ill-will, and would like to see him succeed at UNM or anywhere else. This permeates any time there is a coaching change - some have to hold on to it like their life depends on it. Just let it go; you'll feel better.

Also odd lumping Mash in on the thread, with the title how it is. I'm guessing about 95%+ of the people on here were really bummed when he transferred out. We could have very much used him last year and this year. Are you suggesting that people wanted him gone, too?
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As someone who reads too many posts on here, I probably assumed everybody else did too.
I'm very confident it would have been tough to find five people who didn't think Pitino should be fired when he was and many, many who felt it was year too late and probably closer to 50/50 consensus that it should have happened two years earlier. The firing is not the story for me.

I was in the group that thought he should be fired. But if you are on here a lot it's presently hard to find somebody who doesn't say Pitino is this completely useless, totally ineffective, no redeeming qualities basketball coach. He gets bashed more than anybody on Gopherhole about basketball. Many like him as a funny guy.

And, I believe he can coach. He has faults. He had major problems with roster construction. He liked to play 7 guys and never developed any bench either because there was nobody to develop or there was but he didn't play them anyway until somebody got hurt and then wondered why they played poorly without any game experience.

Pitino was the unluckiest coach of anybody I've followed. It's a list of a 100 things. People say that stuff happens to every coach...pretty true. But, not the multiple instances every year on the job.

So, he's gone. He gets bashed a lot whenever his name comes up. Not that he should still be the coach here.

Mashburn was next because he followed Pitino to New Mexico. Certainly the least of the three
in attracting snarky comments but he does. Lots of good riddance, doesn't play defense, doesn't pass. dominates the ball comments. Entitled, living off dad's name etc

Carr was a lightning rod. He couldn't please anybody. Pitino encouraged him to dominate the ball and score. He rarely came out of the game. He rested on defense. People were very critical when he was Gopher and increased the volume when he transferred.

I just made a title of what I believe are the three most bashed recent former Gophers.
I think Gabe being local most people want him to do well. Liam and his uncle left as a package deal and were forgotten. People wished Johnson would have stayed. Nobody else was good enough to bash. Those were the thoughts in posting a where are they now thread and how they doing.

You are welcome to start a thread. I'm sure it will be better than this one and create more discussion on the message board.
 


cjbfbp said:
Whatever he does at New Mexico is irrelevant to the question of whether he should have been fired here. He had 8 years here, more than he would have gotten at most P6 schools.
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Agree somewhat
You can separate the firing from the hiring

But if you knew this was the budget and type of guy you were going to get you shouldn’t have fired. If we could’ve paid more and actively chose Johnson then that’s one thing. He could still be successful. We will learn a lot next year
SelectionSunday said:
I’m curious what your reasons are for not thinking Johnny Tauer is the right coach for Saint Thomas. Last year you intimated on several occasions that UST should go get someone better. I think you even had someone specific in mind?

I’ve been a season ticket holder at UST these first two years in D1, and what I’ve observed is Tauer knows what he’s doing, there’s a clear plan, his team plays with great effort, and they play a brand of basketball that is fun to watch.
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he isn’t Bo Ryan so he’s out
 



SelectionSunday said:
I’m curious what your reasons are for not thinking Johnny Tauer is the right coach for Saint Thomas. Last year you intimated on several occasions that UST should go get someone better. I think you even had someone specific in mind?

I’ve been a season ticket holder at UST these first two years in D1, and what I’ve observed is Tauer knows what he’s doing, there’s a clear plan, his team plays with great effort, and they play a brand of basketball that is fun to watch.
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I wouldn't dare speak for built, but from his history, he seems to gravitate to a defensive-minded coach. And statistically, UST isn't doing so well on that side of the ball (which is being charitable). But it's the opposite for offense - they currently have the 6th best effective FG% in all of college basketball. That's really impressive.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
I agree, but the surprise was how the season finished. They took another February nose dive losing 6 of 7 including losses to Nebraska and Rutgers. They were 7-10 in the conference at that point and Pitino looked dead in the water.

Then they beat 11th ranked Purdue twice, including in the BTT where they advanced to the semis. That was the surprise and is what got them into the NCAA tournament and saved Pitino's job for another year.
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Amir was so good that BTT
 




Some guy said:
Agree somewhat
You can separate the firing from the hiring

But if you knew this was the budget and type of guy you were going to get you shouldn’t have fired. If we could’ve paid more and actively chose Johnson then that’s one thing. He could still be successful. We will learn a lot next year

he isn’t Bo Ryan so he’s out
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I don't know how many times one has to say this, but we are paying Ben Johnson more than Utah is paying Craig Smith, this wasn't done on the cheap. We are paying Ben a competitive wage and Coyle chose him.
 

Dupreefor3 said:
I mean he was better than Monson, he also had the best regular season this program has had post Clem. He was bad, but historically bad would be worst of all time
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In terms of conference win %, Pitino was worse than both Tubby and Monson. I know cause built badger told us incessantly.
 

Dupreefor3 said:
I don't know how many times one has to say this, but we are paying Ben Johnson more than Utah is paying Craig Smith, this wasn't done on the cheap. We are paying Ben a competitive wage and Coyle chose him.
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We have no idea if the price tag for smith to here was the same or higher as Utah or lower than Utah.
To me the answer was none of the above
 

60's Guy said:
Richard Pitino, the guy most all GopherHole posters feel cannot coach at all...somehow has his New Mexico Lobos off to a 7 and 0 start. Pitino inherited virtually no players at a woeful New Mexico but with the addition of transfers and freshmen has his team off to a great start. Plays his dad and Iona in a couple weeks.
Jamal Mashburn Jr averaged 18 ppg last year and is averaging 16 this year with some more scoring help on the roster.

Marcus Carr is the second leading scorer for #2 ranked Texas. Carr leads the team in steals and assists.
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It is awesome to see ex gophers doing well.
 

Some guy said:
We have no idea if the price tag for smith to here was the same or higher as Utah or lower than Utah.
To me the answer was none of the above
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True enough that a B1G job may command more money than a PAC job, causing a potential variance between a Smith salary here and in Utah. However, the publicly available data on the salaries of both coaches now suggests the CBJ hire was not done for financial reasons. He's getting paid quite well even if it is in the lower tier of the conference. His hiring wasn't done for budgetary reasons, so we can't make the argument this was just done on the cheap. Smith may have gotten more than Ben if he was hired here, but hard to believe it would have had any material effect.
 

jamiche said:
Ben was and is a very good hire.
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Sorry, but that remains to be seen. I don't get invested in potential coaches just like I don't get invested in potential recruits. With both potential recruits and potential coaches there are three primary things that can happen and two of them are bad: they don't come here, they come here but aren't successful, they come here and are successful.

Since I don't get invested, I had no feelings about him either way when he was hired. Right now, I still don't have any definite feelings one way or the other about him. I'd say his chances of succeeding here are no better than a coin toss.
 


Holy Man said:
True enough that a B1G job may command more money than a PAC job, causing a potential variance between a Smith salary here and in Utah. However, the publicly available data on the salaries of both coaches now suggests the CBJ hire was not done for financial reasons. He's getting paid quite well even if it is in the lower tier of the conference. His hiring wasn't done for budgetary reasons, so we can't make the argument this was just done on the cheap. Smith may have gotten more than Ben if he was hired here, but hard to believe it would have had any material effect.
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I disagree with this.
Our candidate pool was what it was because of the budget

We may have liked him better than others in that tier, but we were clearly operating within one tier that was low
 

Some guy said:
I disagree with this.
Our candidate pool was what it was because of the budget

We may have liked him better than others in that tier, but we were clearly operating within one tier that was low
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Money didn’t prevent us from hiring Smith. That’s the point I’m making. It’s pretty clear in the publicly available information. And lack of money wasn’t the primary reason Ben was hired. Money was an object of course, but not significant in the imagined either/or scenario of Smith or Ben. That doesn’t seem difficult to see. I don’t think we are disagreeing much or at all.

It likely was at least one reason higher profile guys were not pursued. That wasn’t my point to begin with either.
 

Bobek said:
Pitino’s biggest mistake was recruiting Isiah Washington instead of Minnesotan McKinley Wright, clearly East Coast player evaluation bias. IWash was a washout more concerned about marketing himself before he ever accomplished anything. Wright shined in the PAC 12 and is a fringe NBA point guard. He would have made the Gophers a much better team.
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This isn't true. Wright was absolutely recruited by the Gophers and was on his short list. He is the only player I'll ever pretend to know his "final list". We had a very close connection to McKinley when he was in high school. Some kids prefer to attend college elsewhere. It's ok.
 

Holy Man said:
Money didn’t prevent us from hiring Smith. That’s the point I’m making. It’s pretty clear in the publicly available information. And lack of money wasn’t the primary reason Ben was hired. Money was an object of course, but not significant in the imagined either/or scenario of Smith or Ben. That doesn’t seem difficult to see. I don’t think we are disagreeing much or at all.

It likely was at least one reason higher profile guys were not pursued. That wasn’t my point to begin with either.
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Yes. My comment about money is more that there are many more choices than two. And the fact that those seemed to be 2 of the handful really says something about the budget to me
 

Some guy said:
Yes. My comment about money is more that there are many more choices than two. And the fact that those seemed to be 2 of the handful really says something about the budget to me
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Fair enough.
 

golfing18now said:
This isn't true. Wright was absolutely recruited by the Gophers and was on his short list. He is the only player I'll ever pretend to know his "final list". We had a very close connection to McKinley when he was in high school. Some kids prefer to attend college elsewhere. It's ok.
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Oof this pokes a big hole in a Pitino myth and the Ben myth.
 

golfing18now said:
This isn't true. Wright was absolutely recruited by the Gophers and was on his short list. He is the only player I'll ever pretend to know his "final list". We had a very close connection to McKinley when he was in high school. Some kids prefer to attend college elsewhere. It's ok.
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Interesting what people know that they really don’t know but they tell you they know. I personably do not know but my guess is that Wright was high on the Gophers list.
 

Some guy said:
I disagree with this.
Our candidate pool was what it was because of the budget

We may have liked him better than others in that tier, but we were clearly operating within one tier that was low
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Well that would be incredibly stupid if true. They have 150 million into facilities. We have a half empty Barn. We are leaving 200k on the table per home game because of a lack of interest in Gopher basketball and that is just the ticket money. Then there is the merchandise and all of the other ways to make money with success.

If the budget was the prime issue, they could have gotten Ben for 500k less- but they didn't.
 

Almost all Gopher fans were happy & totally fine with throwing Clem Haskins under the bus. And happy to kick out Royce White and Reggie Lynch. Literally happy to throw away Final Four chances.
 
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MaxyJR1 said:
I think MN is going about things completely different than what Pitino is doing. Johnson is building a program with young HS recruited talent. As they grow he has to be able to find a bonafide transfer or 2 that help take it to the next level.
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The problem with this approach is you can sell hope for only so long. You can get kids to overlook a year or two as transitional, but after that you are what you are. When you keep finishing in last place, good players do not want to join the nightmare, and that's when your HS pipe line ends. My biggest concern is that Ben gets two good classes and then nothing else, because kids aren't going to believe in your hope when you have 3 bad years on the book. You need to do both. Get some high quality HS kids to form your base, but get some quality transfers so that you can progress up the rankings and at the very least don't finish last multiple years in a row.
 

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