All Things EOAA, Investigation, Suspension, Overturned Etc. Thread: UPDATED 1 Thread

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GopherHomer said:
Do you mean rape culture doesn't currently exist on college campuses in America, or that the 'concept' is invalid? I disagree with both options, but one is at least debatable. There have certainly been times in history and places around the world today, that not only 'look the other way' on rape, but encourage it. Heck, even in the U.S. a husband could not be charged with raping his wife until 1975.

I agree that American college campuses may not be the 'ground zero' for rape culture that some suggest, but that doesn't mean it still isn't a big problem that needs fixing.
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I disagree with "rape culture" because it is based on an extremist view that all heterosexual intercourse is rape. It thoroughly condemns males and naively exonerates females. It overly simplifies relationships into physical aspects and erases any purely emotional aspects of the relationship's existence.

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Great example of the tainted culture at the University. There's clearly a problem. But it's not to be found where most of the public wants to look.
 

Has anyone heard of players bringing a lawsuit against the school while they are still attending and playing there? I can't think of an example of that before.
 



She sees the writing on the wall. She is getting out before she would have been grilled and fired. Now she can get a new job before she is permanently tarnished.
 

To paraphrase Winston Churchill, we haven't seen the the end of this, we've only have seen the end of the beginning.
 

This move was unrelated, I am sure.


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I don't know the time line but, she was promoted from a position where she had protection, to a position that she could've been fired from at will. I was wondering if that might have been intentional. It appears that she got the hint..
 

If they were smart, they would also personally sue Kimberly Hewitt. That would likely help her get canned at Johns Hopkins. This person should never get another job above fry cook.
 

There is this strong indication not even the EOAA staff believed that tremendously harmful accusation was credible:

If the staff members felt it was a legitimate claim, that 10 or more players had sexual contact with the woman, you would not have had five of the 10 recommended for expulsion … it would have been all of them.

This was thrown into the report by the EOAA to make the players’ conduct appear as horrific as possible. You might say the report never was intended for public consumption, but that’s no excuse. There was a 100% chance one of the reports circulated was going to land with the media (it turned out to be KSTP-TV).

Go back and check Twitter, other social forums and including some national commentary. The idea of 10-plus players lined up to have sex with the young woman went from an outrageous claim inside the long, one-sided report to the popular narrative.

My opinion is that storyline -- 10-plus players lined up to have sex with an unwilling participant -- had more to do with the public turning against fired coach Tracy Claeys than did his unfortunate Tweet or the players’ two-day boycott (which was actually a protest).

The protest was fueled by the players’ complete confusion on how the discipline recommended by the EOAA had gone from five players (the number in an earlier restraining order) to 10 being suspended from Holiday Bowl preparations.

When the players sought an explanation from athletic director Mark Coyle, all he had to offer was double-speak, and that’s when their confusion turned to full-blown anger.

The December protest seems more justified than ever after Friday’s decision to remove the discipline from four of the 10 players.

I sent out a series of Tweets on the @1500espn_reusse account on Dec. 20 outlining through sources the sexual encounters that took place: intercourse with four players and a recruit, and oral sex with another player.

http://www.startribune.com/kimberly...leaving-flawed-eoaa-report-in-wake/412822093/
 



Even the biggest Reusse bashers on the site have to admit this is good detail. Well done Patrick.


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citywok said:
Perpetrators of murder, child abuse, etc. are brought to "justice" probably tenfold, is my guess, more times than rape. Also, murder, child abuse, etc. aren't really simmering problems on college campuses, but rape is. Therefore wouldn't you agree that there is at least some sort of extra attention that needs to be paid to sexual assault on college campuses? Campus codes of law have been around for centuries and they have been rarely complained about this much. IMO half of the uproar is about legitimate problems with how this was handled and how it should change, but the other half isn't much more than "OMG my favorite team won't be able to tackle good next year".
It sounds like you have a problem with "uppity" white women.
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False choice. It is illogical to conclude that paying extra attention to sexual assault means we need to implement quasi-judicial proceedings that let lack due process.

This is the problem with much of the social justice movement today: since the cause is just anything done in its name is good.

It's an absurd logic that suddenly has progressive people defending limited due process, mandatory sentences, limiting free speech and abandoning many other historically progressive causes.
 

highwayman said:
If they were smart, they would also personally sue Kimberly Hewitt. That would likely help her get canned at Johns Hopkins. This person should never get another job above fry cook.
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+1.
 

Ewert86PC said:
I disagree with "rape culture" because it is based on an extremist view that all heterosexual intercourse is rape. It thoroughly condemns males and naively exonerates females. It overly simplifies relationships into physical aspects and erases any purely emotional aspects of the relationship's existence.

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Fair enough. I respect your point of view, but we will just have to disagree on this. The bolded part, though, is a bit hyperbolic don't you think? Even the most ardent defender of women's sexual rights could justify some forms of heterosexual intercourse - I hope at least...or else maybe I agree with you more than I thought.
 

GopherHomer said:
Fair enough. I respect your point of view, but we will just have to disagree on this. The bolded part, though, is a bit hyperbolic don't you think? Even the most ardent defender of women's sexual rights could justify some forms of heterosexual intercourse - I hope at least...or else maybe I agree with you more than I thought.
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No, if you look at the writings of Andrea Dworkin that is exactly what she says. Andrea Dworkin and Catherine McKinnon were teaching at the U when I was there. They took the Women's Studies from a feminist male-shaming POV to a feminist male criminalization POV.

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Reusse has been saying this from the beginning. He was the only one. It took some guts.

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Ewert86PC said:
No, if you look at the writings of Andrea Dworkin that is exactly what she says. Andrea Dworkin and Catherine McKinnon were teaching at the U when I was there. They took the Women's Studies from a feminist male-shaming POV to a feminist male criminalization POV.

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So - I looked them up just right now and I will award you the point...at least for those two. I agree that they both are really not doing society any favors. I still think, though, that there is quite a large space that exists between those two and a sensible discussion on possibility of 'rape culture.'

Found plenty on them, though, that I disagree with so point taken...it is possible to take it too far.
 

GopherHomer said:
So - I looked them up just right now and I will award you the point...at least for those two. I agree that they both are really not doing society any favors. I still think, though, that there is quite a large space that exists between those two and a sensible discussion on possibility of 'rape culture.'

Found plenty on them, though, that I disagree with so point taken...it is possible to take it too far.
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Not so sure.... when I was matriculating at a competing university, the female profs running those departments pushed the same views, with the same vigor.
 

Question on Hardin's role:

Did anything else come out about anything he did other than receiving oral sex for a few minutes and then feeling guilty about his girlfriend and deciding to leave? Of the 4 originally recommended to be expelled I thought he had the best chance at moving from expulsion to suspended for one year. Seems like too harsh of a penalty if that's all that happened (unless of course it was substantiated that she was forced into the act).
 

GopherHomer said:
So - I looked them up just right now and I will award you the point...at least for those two. I agree that they both are really not doing society any favors. I still think, though, that there is quite a large space that exists between those two and a sensible discussion on possibility of 'rape culture.'

Found plenty on them, though, that I disagree with so point taken...it is possible to take it too far.
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When you take their perspective out, then it becomes about force, both physical and mental. I can agree that physical force is the easiest way to define rape, if you ignore fetishes like like BDSM. Mental force opens the door to the whole range of mental manipulation, from quid pro quo through duress to obligation. Mental fotce is something that can be equally invoked by any gender or gender orientation.

What rape culture is trying to refute is fascist, unreciprocated sexual dominance in culture, but that doesn't fit on a book cover or make a pithy sound bite. Hence, it pits men against women and does nothing for helping people to be empathetic and sympathetic towards each other.

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The report was so "flawed" that after initial appeals, the most serious charges against the majority of players were upheld by a panel of their peers. All of those players will be expelled from school (most permanently) unless the Provost rules otherwise or a Federal Court intervenes. This latter possibility is highly unlikely to occur and, in all probability, six Gopher football players will soon no longer be students there.
Also, has anyone ever thought that if Djam had not sent a video of himself and the recruit having sex with the cheerleader, that all ten players might have never gotten involved in this sordid affair? In fact, if Djam had not lured the recruit away from his host A. Winfield, none of this might ever have happened. Obviously, those occurrences are the fault of the EoAA.
 

Trisuper said:
The report was so "flawed" that after initial appeals, the most serious charges against the majority of players were upheld by a panel of their peers. All of those players will be expelled from school (most permanently) unless the Provost rules otherwise or a Federal Court intervenes. This latter possibility is highly unlikely to occur and, in all probability, six Gopher football players will soon no longer be students there.
Also, has anyone ever thought that if Djam had not sent a video of himself and the recruit having sex with the cheerleader, that all ten players might have never gotten involved in this sordid affair? In fact, if Djam had not lured the recruit away from his host A. Winfield, none of this might ever have happened. Obviously, those occurrences are the fault of the EoAA.
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If Djam had not taken a video, a good number of these young men may well be behind bars. Choke on that.
 

Trisuper said:
The report was so "flawed" that after initial appeals, the most serious charges against the majority of players were upheld by a panel of their peers. All of those players will be expelled from school (most permanently) unless the Provost rules otherwise or a Federal Court intervenes. This latter possibility is highly unlikely to occur and, in all probability, six Gopher football players will soon no longer be students there.
Also, has anyone ever thought that if Djam had not sent a video of himself and the recruit having sex with the cheerleader, that all ten players might have never gotten involved in this sordid affair? In fact, if Djam had not lured the recruit away from his host A. Winfield, none of this might ever have happened. Obviously, those occurrences are the fault of the EoAA.
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It's people like you that totally miss the point. Reuse clearly said there were five involved. It was totally flawed in how it brought those now exonerated into the mix. If one of those guys was your son, and had never even been there, you would be furious. The point is who was unjustly accused. Just because some were involved, doesn't make it ok to have treated the four now exonerated the way they were. We should have higher expectations of an office of our university.

Also, from what I have heard at the university, Williams will likely be back on the team.


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