All Things 2025 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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Ope3 said:
But those Playoff performances did occur. Twice.

Different sport, but if Puckett doesn't have 2 WS Rings, does he get in? Doubtful.

Eli's 8 Playoff Wins are as many as Marino. That's a lot. Two more than Tarkenton. More than doubled Fouts.
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Yeah I get it. I actually think Eli's storyline and HOF case is very comparable to Jack Morris. Both are recognizable names who had long careers and were good but rarely if ever dominant, outside of a couple of historical performances on the big stage.
 

Gophers1992 said:
I totally get your point, and I do think that is how it will play out when all is said and done. My main objection to him getting in is that without those playoff performances he's not even in the "Hall of Very Good", he's in the hall of average to occasionally above average and sometimes really good and sometimes pretty bad.
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I'm with you and Ogee. Eli will almost certainly get in with the help of media campaigns and the Manning name. Linda Cohn is a Giants fan and I swear they almost had to take her off camera because she was so distraught over his omission.

For me, the name on the Super Bowl trophy tells the history of teams in the NFL. The HOF is supposed to tell the story of an entire career of individual greatness. Eli had some of the most embarrassing stretches of QB performances in league history and two (2) Titles doesn't change anything for me personally.

Was Eli a better QB than Jim Marshall was as a DL? Not IMO.
 

Gophers1992 said:
Yeah I get it. I actually think Eli's storyline and HOF case is very comparable to Jack Morris. Both are recognizable names who had long careers and were good but rarely if ever dominant, outside of a couple of historical performances on the big stage.
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That's also a good career comp.
 

Slim Tubby said:
I'm with you and Ogee. Eli will almost certainly get in with the help of media campaigns and the Manning name. Linda Cohn is a Giants fan and I swear they almost had to take her off camera because she was so distraught over his omission.

For me, the name on the Super Bowl trophy tells the history of teams in the NFL. The HOF is supposed to tell the story of an entire career of individual greatness. Eli had some of the most embarrassing stretches of QB performances in league history and two (2) Titles doesn't change anything for me personally.

Was Eli a better QB than Jim Marshall was as a DL? Not IMO.
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If his last name was "Smith or Johnson" but still won 2 Super Bowl Rings/MVPs as a QB in any city, I think Eli would still get in eventually.

The NY and Manning attachments no doubt will help.

Plunkett has 2 Rings but only 1 MVP. Personally, I hope he eventually gets in too.

Ditto Marshall.
 

Ope3 said:
I don't feel that strongly either, but I don't think you can tell the story of NFL football this century without Eli. 2 Rings. 2 SB MVPs.
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Not sure if it was on Cowherd YEARS ago, but I've heard this as a metric for defining HOF; can you tell the story.... I thought about that when posting earlier. I think that's true in Eli's case, and certainly knocking off the undefeated Patriots that one year is massive.

Still a little miffed the AP changed their "Comeback POY" criteria AFTER I placed a few small bets; WTF. I had both Darnold and Kyler Murray for $5 at like 30-1. I still think I got hosed on Darnold missing out. For my first year of really doing any Futures bets before the season, I still crushed it so hard to complain
 


Ope3 said:
If his last name was "Smith or Johnson" but still won 2 Super Bowl Rings/MVPs as a QB in any city, I think Eli would still get in eventually.

The NY and Manning attachments no doubt will help.

Plunkett has 2 Rings but only 1 MVP. Personally, I hope he eventually gets in too.

Ditto Marshall.
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I can understand Plunkett not getting in. For his career of 157 games, he had 164 TDs and 198 INTs. Marshall just never got the credit he deserved playing on the same DL as Eller and Page.

Eli's merit is certainly a fun, worthy debate.
 

Slim Tubby said:
I can understand Plunkett not getting in. For his career of 157 games, he had 164 TDs and 198 INTs. Marshall just never got the credit he deserved playing on the same DL as Eller and Page.

Eli's merit is certainly a fun, worthy debate.
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I get Plunkett not getting in as well but just for comparison sake, Namath in 140 games had 173 TDs by 220 INTs.

1 fewer Super Bowl Ring. Super Bowl MVPs, push.
 
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Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
Not sure if it was on Cowherd YEARS ago, but I've heard this as a metric for defining HOF; can you tell the story.... I thought about that when posting earlier. I think that's true in Eli's case, and certainly knocking off the undefeated Patriots that one year is massive.

Still a little miffed the AP changed their "Comeback POY" criteria AFTER I placed a few small bets; WTF. I had both Darnold and Kyler Murray for $5 at like 30-1. I still think I got hosed on Darnold missing out. For my first year of really doing any Futures bets before the season, I still crushed it so hard to complain
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I've never understood the "can't tell the story without them" deal because are we going to argue that David Tyree belongs in the HOF?
 




Slim Tubby said:
Without that catch, is Eli even considered for the HOF? Not in my opinion.

But he made the catch. Interesting debate for sure.
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Also it's not like Eli put up eye popping numbers in either of those Super Bowls. Naming him MVP of each was pretty generous.
 

Gophers1992 said:
Also it's not like Eli put up eye popping numbers in either of those Super Bowls. Naming him MVP of each was pretty generous.
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He led the Giants to game winning drives in the final minute of both games. That's what sticks out to me and why he got the car keys for being MVP.

The first one thwarted the Patriots effort to go a 19-0. That's pretty noteworthy.
 

Gophers1992 said:
Yeah I get it. I actually think Eli's storyline and HOF case is very comparable to Jack Morris. Both are recognizable names who had long careers and were good but rarely if ever dominant, outside of a couple of historical performances on the big stage.
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I was thinking of Morris as well.
 

Ope3 said:
He led the Giants to game winning drives in the final minute of both games. That's what sticks out to me and why he got the car keys for being MVP.

The first one thwarted the Patriots effort to go a 19-0. That's pretty noteworthy.
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It doesn't hurt that by all accounts, Eli is a humble and very likable dude. I'm sure he'll get in next year. I just believe that the NFL, MLB and NBA qualifying criteria for entry into their HOFs have been watered down over the years.
 



Rick Spielman was hired by the Jets for their Front Office. He did some very good things for the Vikings as our GM but nobody could turn a quality draft pick into additional less valuable picks better than he could.
 

The NFL is different in that they have a lower bar but to never get a vote as the MVP in his long career really shows he was never a star.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
Flores expects that position to be able to drop back in coverage. Sorry, but that AIN'T Jared Verse. Two different players with two completely different skill sets
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*Apologies for digging up this post, I don't post here that often but wanted to respond. No need for further discussion if we've moved past this which we probably have.*


I agree if you're talking about the "Van Ginkle" position. I'm not sure if that's as true if you're talking about the "Greenard" position?

Greenard is 6-3 260lbs. That's not a great size for covering, whereas Van Ginkle is 6-4 240lbs.

Verse is 6-4 250lbs, Turner is 6-3 almost 250lbs.
 

gophersfan said:
Kevin O'Connell wins AP coach of the year.
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I think this is great and well deserved.


But it's tough for me how this can be true but losing to Detroit twice and with all they had to do to overcome injuries?

Well anyway
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
The latest from Braun, on Locked on Vikings; his strong opinion (and I'm inclined to agree) is that with Darnold, the Vikings will either tag him or let him walk. That there's no real chance they sign Darnold to a multi-year deal. And really, the notion of "tag and trade" doesn't make a lot of sense either because the return in a trade probably wouldn't be that much different than the Comp pick they'll get when Darnold signs somewhere else.

Also rumblings that JJM is ahead of schedule in his rehab and it's becoming more and more clear, this Front Office and staff love JJ McCarthy. And I love it. I would have been fine with whatever they did but if they love JJM, let's roll with it and let the JJM Era begin
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I have no idea who will be right, but lately every time I hear Seifert on KFAN he seems very convinced that you just cannot roll out in 25 with only JJM and no legitimate vetern who can start out the year as the starter until JJM is ready to take over.
 

GopherGrit said:
*Apologies for digging up this post, I don't post here that often but wanted to respond. No need for further discussion if we've moved past this which we probably have.*


I agree if you're talking about the "Van Ginkle" position. I'm not sure if that's as true if you're talking about the "Greenard" position?

Greenard is 6-3 260lbs. That's not a great size for covering, whereas Van Ginkle is 6-4 240lbs.

Verse is 6-4 250lbs, Turner is 6-3 almost 250lbs.
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Maybe the more relevant numbers, are those which measure their athleticism 🤷‍♂️; as to whether they can drop in coverage or not.

Turner is a unicorn 🦄, based on his measurables at the combine -


www.sportingnews.com

Dallas Turner NFL Combine results: Alabama LB shows off athleticism in jumping drills, 40-yard dash | Sporting News

The Crimson Tide product already had high draft stock heading into the NFL Combine, Turner may have raised that even higher.
www.sportingnews.com www.sportingnews.com

 
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GopherGrit said:
I have no idea who will be right, but lately every time I hear Seifert on KFAN he seems very convinced that you just cannot roll out in 25 with only JJM and no legitimate vetern who can start out the year as the starter until JJM is ready to take over.
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Daniel Jones is the obvious choice there. But with all of the rookies who started this season and were highly successful, I don't understand why there are some that think JJM can't be the starter on week 1 after a year of getting acclimated to the NFL and the Vikings playbook, and a full summer of football activities post injury.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Daniel Jones is the obvious choice there. But with all of the rookies who started this season and were highly successful, I don't understand why there are some that think JJM can't be the starter on week 1 after a year of getting acclimated to the NFL and the Vikings playbook, and a full summer of football activities post injury.
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Daniels certainly was great. Stroud two years ago.

I believe (I can't remember if it was Seifert or Pelissero) the argument against was that he did not get to physically practice at all last year, just mental reps, studying. But your point is about guys who came straight out of college anyway.

It is possible. Yeah, if they have Dan Jones that's probably the answer. Is DJ willing to be here on a one year, relatively low money deal, knowing that he is likely to get replaced by the prodigal son? I have no idea. Darnold was.

Does Dan Jones get taken by some other team desperate for a QB, though? Then who do you turn to? Garoppolo?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Daniel Jones is the obvious choice there. But with all of the rookies who started this season and were highly successful, I don't understand why there are some that think JJM can't be the starter on week 1 after a year of getting acclimated to the NFL and the Vikings playbook, and a full summer of football activities post injury.
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Because JJM's health is a question mark in and of itself. Even if he get's to 100% ready by Day 1 of training camp, it's certainly a big question mark that he can maintain it for the bulk of a 17 Week NFL Season plus hopefully playoffs.
 

GopherGrit said:
I think this is great and well deserved.


But it's tough for me how this can be true but losing to Detroit twice and with all they had to do to overcome injuries?

Well anyway
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Maybe the last 2 games the Vikings performed shows what an incredible job KOC did for the first 16 weeks of the regular season?
 

Ope3 said:
Because JJM's health is a question mark in and of itself. Even if he get's to 100% ready by Day 1 of training camp, it's certainly a big question mark that he can maintain it for the bulk of a 17 Week NFL Season plus hopefully playoffs.
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That’s a question mark for every player in the NFL.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
That’s a question mark for every player in the NFL.
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Undoubtedly, but even more so for QB that has had 2 procedures in the past year on the same knee.

Also, the other rookies that started last year from the beginning (Williams, Daniels, Maye & Nix) were playing for teams that didn't make the Playoffs the prior year, not much aspiration to make them in 2024. Perhaps the Bears had higher hopes. Their HC is now toast.

If any of them went down it's not as though the team around them was expected make a Post Season push.

If JJM goes down without any reliable backup, they would be wasting a year with a lot talent (ie JJ) in their prime.
 

Ope3 said:
Undoubtedly, but even more so for QB that has had 2 procedures in the past year on the same knee.

Also, the other rookies that started last year from the beginning (Williams, Daniels, Maye & Nix) were playing for teams that didn't make the Playoffs the prior year, not much aspiration to make them in 2024. Perhaps the Bears had higher hopes. Their HC is now toast.

If any of them went down it's not as though the team around them was expected make a Post Season push.

If JJM goes down without any reliable backup, they would be wasting a year with a lot talent (ie JJ) in their prime.
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And BFlo back with a lot of the same guys plus a big FA budget and hopefully DTurner comes on, new draft picks, etc.

I don't see a reason that the 25 Vikings can't be just as good as 24, if we get good QB play.
 

Eli Manning has a career record of 117-117.

Not HOF worthy.
 


Unregistered User said:
Eli Manning has a career record of 117-117.

Not HOF worthy.
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Joe Namath 62-63-4
Dan Fouts 86-84-1

Being at or around .500 does not appear to be a an overriding factor for enshrinement.
 
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