All Things 2025 College Football D2 and D3 Thread

The school and community profile says so. But for all the success the school has had on the court and on the field since joining the NSIC, the community takes very little notice and offers only minimal support. But then again, maybe its a matter of "if you build it, they will come." The same questions were asked when NDSU and SDSU left the NCC for DI, more so in Brookings than Fargo. The move has ushered in a golden era of athletics at both schools and their respective communities and states have turned out. But Mankato, not being a flagship or land grant institution in Minnesota, could just as easily fall into a profile of a Western or Eastern Illinois, which isn't pretty. That said, the hockey program has actually done pretty well, and I know people that have no connection to MSU-M and have never laced up a skate in their life that are more than just casual fans of Maverick hockey. For Mankato, I think they are content with being DI hockey only.

Edit: I'd add that there was some quiet athletic department interest in moving up a number of years ago after USD and UND made the leap but outside of the athletic department, there appears to have been zero interest or support for such a move, whether at the admin level, MNSCU, community (meaning those that would be the financial support, not the man on the street with empty pockets, etc), or otherwise

Realistically, could Mankato go FCS but play in the Pioneer like St. Thomas, and move their other sports to the Summit?
That is absolutely ridiculous. The support and interest is not there. Mankato and other state universities are cutting programs and athletics will be next. If Minnesota had one big state university it would be realistic. These schools are just doing everything to survive.
 

Tying this in to some discussion we've had about Gopher athletics ... How much money do D3 and D2 schools lose on having a football team? I can't imagine they draw many fans (with a few exceptions like St. Johns) and certainly don't have TV deals.

It’s just for enrollment. 100 players at $25k/player covers costs pretty quickly.
 

Here’s the coaches preseason Top 25 ranking for Division II. NSIC teams in bold, Minnesota teams in italics. Records from 2024 included
  1. Ferris State (MI), 14-1
  2. Harding (AR), 12-2
  3. Grand Valley State (MI), 11-2
  4. Slippery Rock (PA), 12-2
  5. Central Oklahoma, 11-2
  6. Colorado State-Pueblo, 10-2
  7. Kutztown (PA), 11-1
  8. West Florida, 7-3
  9. Pittsburg State (KS), 8-3
  10. Western Colorado, 11-2
  11. Minnesota State-Mankato, 11-4
  12. Valdosta State (GA), 13-1
  13. Angelo State (TX), 9-3
  14. Charleston (WV), 11-1
  15. California (PA), 10-3
  16. Bemidji State (MN), 10-4
  17. Lenoir-Rhyne (NC), 10-3
  18. Ouachita Baptist (AR), 10-2
  19. Virginia Union, 10-4
  20. Indianapolis, 10-2
  21. Central Washington, 8-4
  22. Central Missouri, 9-3
  23. Augustana (SD), 8-4
  24. Ashland (OH), 9-4
  25. Miles (AL), 10-3
Others receiving votes: Minnesota Duluth, Northwest Missouri State, Indiana (PA).
 

Here’s the coaches preseason Top 25 ranking for Division II. NSIC teams in bold, Minnesota teams in italics. Records from 2024 included
  1. Ferris State (MI), 14-1
  2. Harding (AR), 12-2
  3. Grand Valley State (MI), 11-2
  4. Slippery Rock (PA), 12-2
  5. Central Oklahoma, 11-2
  6. Colorado State-Pueblo, 10-2
  7. Kutztown (PA), 11-1
  8. West Florida, 7-3
  9. Pittsburg State (KS), 8-3
  10. Western Colorado, 11-2
  11. Minnesota State-Mankato, 11-4
  12. Valdosta State (GA), 13-1
  13. Angelo State (TX), 9-3
  14. Charleston (WV), 11-1
  15. California (PA), 10-3
  16. Bemidji State (MN), 10-4
  17. Lenoir-Rhyne (NC), 10-3
  18. Ouachita Baptist (AR), 10-2
  19. Virginia Union, 10-4
  20. Indianapolis, 10-2
  21. Central Washington, 8-4
  22. Central Missouri, 9-3
  23. Augustana (SD), 8-4
  24. Ashland (OH), 9-4
  25. Miles (AL), 10-3
Others receiving votes: Minnesota Duluth, Northwest Missouri State, Indiana (PA).

I shouldn't be surprised to see Bemidji in the rankings anymore, but I am. That program sucked for so long. Bolte has done an incredible job.
 



I always find these hypothetical all-division rankings interesting.

It was interesting for me to see Stetson as the lowest FCS with plenty of D3 higher. Watched their game against St. Thomas last year and was convinced they were the worst college football team I’ve watched.
 

Looked over where the Minnesota teams were ranked in that listing. Here's how things shake out:
  • No. 40: Minnesota
  • No. 226: Minnesota State-Mankato
  • No. 230: St. Thomas
  • No. 264: Bemidji State
  • No. 270: Minnesota-Duluth
  • No. 293: St. John’s
  • No. 320: Bethel
  • No. 361: Winona State
  • No. 368: Minnesota State-Moorhead
  • No. 470: St. Olaf
  • No. 482: Concordia-Moorhead
  • No. 491: Concordia-St. Paul
  • No. 535: Gustavus Adolphus
  • No. 544: SW Minnesota State
  • No. 569: Carleton
  • No. 614: Benedictine
  • No. 615: Augsburg
  • No. 629: Northwestern
  • No. 683: Minnesota-Morris
  • No. 694: St. Scholastica
  • No. 695: Hamline
  • No. 697: Martin Luther
  • No. 707: Macalester
  • No. 758: Crown
 
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Looked over where the Minnesota teams were ranked in that listing. Here's how things shake out:
  • No. 40: Minnesota
  • No. 226: Minnesota State-Mankato
  • No. 230: St. Thomas
  • No. 264: Bemidji State
  • No. 270: Minnesota-Duluth
  • No. 293: St. John’s
  • No. 320: Bethel
  • No. 361: Winona State
  • No. 368: Minnesota State-Moorhead
  • No. 470: St. Olaf
  • No. 482: Concordia-Moorhead
  • No. 491: Concordia-St. Paul
  • No. 535: Gustavus Adolphus
  • No. 544: SW Minnesota State
  • No. 569: Carleton
  • No. 614: Benedictine
  • No. 615: Augsburg
  • No. 629: Northwestern
  • No. 683: Minnesota-Morris
  • No. 694: St. Scholastica
  • No. 695: Hamline
  • No. 697: Martin Luther
  • No. 707: Macalester
  • No. 725: Bethany
  • No. 758: Crown
Bethany doesn't have a FB team.
 




Looked over where the Minnesota teams were ranked in that listing. Here's how things shake out:
  • No. 40: Minnesota
  • No. 226: Minnesota State-Mankato
  • No. 230: St. Thomas
  • No. 264: Bemidji State
  • No. 270: Minnesota-Duluth
  • No. 293: St. John’s
  • No. 320: Bethel
  • No. 361: Winona State
  • No. 368: Minnesota State-Moorhead
  • No. 470: St. Olaf
  • No. 482: Concordia-Moorhead
  • No. 491: Concordia-St. Paul
  • No. 535: Gustavus Adolphus
  • No. 544: SW Minnesota State
  • No. 569: Carleton
  • No. 614: Benedictine
  • No. 615: Augsburg
  • No. 629: Northwestern
  • No. 683: Minnesota-Morris
  • No. 694: St. Scholastica
  • No. 695: Hamline
  • No. 697: Martin Luther
  • No. 707: Macalester
  • No. 725: Bethany
  • No. 758: Crown
I do not believe STU is the 3rd best team in the state. SJU and BU would have beaten them last year. Their football team needs out of the pioneer
 






Yeah I just don't see the benefit. I can't imagine the average liberal arts student at a d3 school cares at all about d3 football.
I guess you’ve never noticed a liberal arts D3 school leads the nation in attendance - beating most D2 and FCS schools, too.
 

That is absolutely ridiculous. The support and interest is not there. Mankato and other state universities are cutting programs and athletics will be next. If Minnesota had one big state university it would be realistic. These schools are just doing everything to survive.
Mankato has Glen Taylor and Unrl. They could do it.
 

Figured I'd share since St. Thomas was mentioned here, they're ranked No. 3 in the preseason coaches Pioneer League poll. They're behind San Diego and Drake. The Drake Bulldogs are the defending champion. Here's the full list:
  1. San Diego (CA) - 94 points
  2. Drake (IA) - 78 points
  3. St. Thomas (MN) - 72 points
  4. Butler (IN)- 66 points
  5. Dayton (OH) - 65 points
  6. Morehead State (KY) - 64 points
  7. Presbyterian (SC) - 55 points
  8. Davidson (NC) - 53 points
  9. Marist (NY) - 24 points
  10. Valparaiso (IN) - 18 points
  11. Stetson (FL) - 16 points
 

Figured I'd share since St. Thomas was mentioned here, they're ranked No. 3 in the preseason coaches Pioneer League poll. They're behind San Diego and Drake. The Drake Bulldogs are the defending champion. Here's the full list:
  1. San Diego (CA) - 94 points
  2. Drake (IA) - 78 points
  3. St. Thomas (MN) - 72 points
  4. Butler (IN)- 66 points
  5. Dayton (OH) - 65 points
  6. Morehead State (KY) - 64 points
  7. Presbyterian (SC) - 55 points
  8. Davidson (NC) - 53 points
  9. Marist (NY) - 24 points
  10. Valparaiso (IN) - 18 points
  11. Stetson (FL) - 16 points
Terrible football
 

Terrible football
Yeah, before 2013, they didn't have auto bids for the PFL champions in the FCS playoffs. Since 2013, they've made it past the first round of the FCS playoffs twice since 2013, never past the second. Since 2020, the playoff results have been:
  • 2020, Davidson lost to Jacksonville State, 49-14
  • 2021, Davidson lost to Kennesaw State, 48-21
  • 2022 Davidson, lost to Richmond, 41-0*
  • 2023 Drake, lost to North Dakota State, 66-3
  • 2024 Drake, lost to Carleton State, 43-29
*St. Thomas won the PFL in 2022 with a 10-1 record, but was ineligible for the playoff.

The top teams in D2 from conferences like NSIC, GLIAC, MIAA and RMAC could definitely compete and win against PFL programs, and other lower level FCS squads for that matter.
 

I guess you’ve never noticed a liberal arts D3 school leads the nation in attendance - beating most D2 and FCS schools, too.
They draw a out 7000 a year these days if you're talking about SJU. But if you read my post I said "average" not the one outlier.
 

That's my thinking, too. Last year UST lost to Sioux Falls, which has been about on par with those programs.
To be fair, Sioux Falls offers scholarships for FB while UST does not. But the Pioneer model might be the future for a lot of FCS schools.
 

Yeah, before 2013, they didn't have auto bids for the PFL champions in the FCS playoffs. Since 2013, they've made it past the first round of the FCS playoffs twice since 2013, never past the second. Since 2020, the playoff results have been:
  • 2020, Davidson lost to Jacksonville State, 49-14
  • 2021, Davidson lost to Kennesaw State, 48-21
  • 2022 Davidson, lost to Richmond, 41-0*
  • 2023 Drake, lost to North Dakota State, 66-3
  • 2024 Drake, lost to Carleton State, 43-29
*St. Thomas won the PFL in 2022 with a 10-1 record, but was ineligible for the playoff.

The top teams in D2 from conferences like NSIC, GLIAC, MIAA and RMAC could definitely compete and win against PFL programs, and other lower level FCS squads for that matter.
2023 Drake also lost to NAIA Northwestern although, again to be fair, NAIA offers scholarship dollars.
 


Sure they could but where are they going to get the fans? Zero interest.
Taylor donated to the renovated and expanded Taylor Center two decades ago. Has he shown any interest since? Brennan (cable exec) donated for MSU's top notch hoops arena but same question?

I agree that there just isn't going to be community and alumni support. While I noted above that there might be an "if they build it they will come" theory based on the Dakota schools (particularly the xDSUs), its more likely MSU becomes an Eastern or Western Illinois, despite the community and school profile that suggests FCS.
 

Here's the preseason Top 25 media ranking from D2Football.com with their 2024 final record. Teams from the NSIC in bold, Minnesota teams in italics.
  1. Ferris State (MI), 14-1
  2. Harding (AR), 12-2
  3. Central Oklahoma, 11-2
  4. Minnesota State-Mankato, 11-4
  5. Kutztown (PA), 11-1
  6. Grand Valley State (MI), 11-2
  7. Colorado State-Pueblo, 10-2
  8. Western Colorado, 11-2
  9. Slippery Rock (PA), 12-2
  10. Pittsburg State (KS), 8-3
  11. West Florida, 7-3
  12. Angelo State (TX), 8-3
  13. Ouachita Baptist (AR), 10-2
  14. Lenoir-Rhyne (NC), 10-3
  15. Indianapolis, 10-2
  16. Augustana (SD), 8-4
  17. Valdosta State (GA), 13-1
  18. California (PA), 10-3
  19. Bemidji State (MN), 10-4
  20. Fort Hays (KS), 8-3
  21. Virginia Union, 10-4
  22. Charleston (WV), 11-1
  23. West Alabama, 9-2
  24. Central Missouri, 9-3
  25. Ashland (OH), 9-4
 


Interesting article this weekend about the struggles UM-Morris is having enrollment-wise.
Wonder if that school will even exist in a few years.
 

Interesting article this weekend about the struggles UM-Morris is having enrollment-wise.
Wonder if that school will even exist in a few years.
UMM is a school that seems to be doing a poor job of serving its population and mission. As part of the University system, it doesn't really fit any part of the historic land grant university mission, i.e., agricultural and mechanical arts and sciences, extension and practical education and services. Seemingly the only ag related major is sustainable food and ag. It is instead a garden variety liberal arts school competing with similar MnSCU schools less than two hours away in Moorhead, St. Cloud and Marshall, land grant universities in Brookings and Fargo, and vo-techs in Wahpeton, Willmar, Fergus Falls and Alexandria. Compare and contrast with Crookston, which is heavily ag focused which seemingly has steady enrollment, likely because it serves the primary economic driver of the region. Its hard to look at the degree offerings at UMM and see how it furthers the land grant mission. It wouldn't be surprising to UMM meet with the same fate as the Waseca campus three decades ago.
 

Yeah, before 2013, they didn't have auto bids for the PFL champions in the FCS playoffs. Since 2013, they've made it past the first round of the FCS playoffs twice since 2013, never past the second. Since 2020, the playoff results have been:
  • 2020, Davidson lost to Jacksonville State, 49-14
  • 2021, Davidson lost to Kennesaw State, 48-21
  • 2022 Davidson, lost to Richmond, 41-0*
  • 2023 Drake, lost to North Dakota State, 66-3
  • 2024 Drake, lost to Carleton State, 43-29
*St. Thomas won the PFL in 2022 with a 10-1 record, but was ineligible for the playoff.

The top teams in D2 from conferences like NSIC, GLIAC, MIAA and RMAC could definitely compete and win against PFL programs, and other lower level FCS squads for that matter.
D2 and D3 teams would do what St. Thomas did. Be good until the non scholarship roster catches up with them. We'll see if the possibility to play in the FCS playoff stabilizes them.
 

Interesting article this weekend about the struggles UM-Morris is having enrollment-wise.
Wonder if that school will even exist in a few years.
I drove through Morris on my way home from Fargo in March coming home from the hockey regional (still mad at the shady officiating in that UMass game) to look at a car. Does Morris have a specialty & focus that causes people to go there over other particular campuses?

If not, I agree with you; seems like a tough place to keep a campus at.
 




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