All Things 2023 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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PA reminds us that Meatsauce is the NFL draft expert inthe TC area. It seems a touch far when I hear lambert mispronounce names and colleges attended but ok.
 

Defensive lineman Dalvin Tomlinson and cornerback Patrick Peterson both had their contracts voided on Monday, adding approximately $8.25 million in dead money to the team’s salary cap for the upcoming season. These figures had already been figured into the numbers that we’ve seen for much of this offseason so far, so they don’t make the team’s salary cap situation any worse.

Tomlinson’s contract accounts for approximately $7.5 million of the dead cap space, which almost certainly means that he won’t be back this upcoming season. If the team had been interested in bringing him back, they could have worked something out before now to mitigate some of that cap hit and bring him back into the fold.

Peterson’s case might not be quite as clear-cut. Much like last offseason, Peterson has made no secret of the fact that he’d like to remain with the Vikings, and since he’s not taking up nearly as much dead cap space as Tomlinson is, the team could end up bringing him back to once again mentor the team’s young cornerback corps.
 

Fun article in the Strib about CJ Ham and Chris Reed competing in the shot put during a recent open track-&-field meet. Reed is seriously talking about trying to make the next Olympic team.

the article goes through all of the Vikings players who were multi-sport athletes in HS and College.

quotes a trainer who says multi-sport athletes tend to have a lower rate of injury compared to athletes who specialize in one sport full-time.

and I love the bit about Harrison Phillips. he was a state-champion Heavyweight wrestler in HS. during the off-season, he goes back to his old HS to work out and says he'll pay money to anyone who scores a point off him. according to Phillips, he's never had to pay out.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Unless he plays really well for them?

I assume that is what they were going for?
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He would have to be one of the greatest QBs the world has ever seen to still make that worth it.
 



Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
The fish stinks from the head down. Bad ownership will always be bad ownership.

And this was the nonsense that put the notion into Lamar Jackson's head that he could get himself a fully guaranteed contract, just like Watson. The Ravens are smartly saying "no f'ng way". Can't play that game with one of the best run franchises in the NFL for quite a while now.

I would have to think the Ravens are at least exploring trade options a little bit.

Rumblings after the Senior Bowl, I guess the Bears are exploring trade options for Justin Fields. Smart to at least look into their options, but I doubt there's a super hot market for Fields. I can't see very many teams giving up much for him, at least not to play the QB position.
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That makes sense for the Bears. They have a chance to get someone with the #1 pick and Fields will get about as much in return now than he ever will.
 

GophersInIowa said:
That makes sense for the Bears. They have a chance to get someone with the #1 pick and Fields will get about as much in return now than he ever will.
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Could they get a high second rounder for him? Guessing some QB starved team would give it up in the hopes they can teach him how to pass. I’d trade him for whatever I could get and go draft your new QB. Fields isn’t the guy and never will be. For the Vikes sake, I hope they hold onto him for a while longer.
 


forever a gopher said:
Could they get a high second rounder for him? Guessing some QB starved team would give it up in the hopes they can teach him how to pass. I’d trade him for whatever I could get and go draft your new QB. Fields isn’t the guy and never will be. For the Vikes sake, I hope they hold onto him for a while longer.
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Similar things said about Jalen Hurts?
 




If he does what Burrow has done for Cincy, Mahomes for KC, Hurts for Philly this year .... then it was unquestionable worth it.

That's what they were going for, so it is already justified.


If he can't perform at that level, then that is the reason it didn't work.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Similar things said about Jalen Hurts?
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I don't think so. Hurts came in his first year and spot started 4 games. He was a middle-to-late second rounder, and had only moderate expectations. He has shown very linear progression in his development, and this year averaged 246 passing yards a game. Fields was a very high pick with justifiably high expectations. From what I've seen, he has not shown much of an improvement in his ability to pass, and the stats bare that out. The only progression he's shown is an increased ability to run. However, defenses will adjust and take that away better and force him to pass. If he can't increase his ability to pass, his running game will be stifled, and he will regress in that as well.

I'm going to continue to pat myself on the back (too lazy to go find the posts, but they're there) when I was saying I'd trade whatever I had to to pick up Hurts in the second round. Go ahead, just make me the GM and get it over with.
 

forever a gopher said:
I don't think so. Hurts came in his first year and spot started 4 games. He was a middle-to-late second rounder, and had only moderate expectations. He has shown very linear progression in his development, and this year averaged 246 passing yards a game. Fields was a very high pick with justifiably high expectations. From what I've seen, he has not shown much of an improvement in his ability to pass, and the stats bare that out. The only progression he's shown is an increased ability to run. However, defenses will adjust and take that away better and force him to pass. If he can't increase his ability to pass, his running game will be stifled, and he will regress in that as well.

I'm going to continue to pat myself on the back (too lazy to go find the posts, but they're there) when I was saying I'd trade whatever I had to to pick up Hurts in the second round. Go ahead, just make me the GM and get it over with.
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What’s the difference in the receiving core and OL talent between Philly and Chicago?
 



Gopher_In_NYC said:
What’s the difference in the receiving core and OL talent between Philly and Chicago?
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Probably huge. That is absolutely helping Hurts, and absolutely a valid point. Although the Bears do at least have a couple credible receivers, especially after the trade for Claypool, which didn't help Fields' numbers. I've seen enough of Fields (even when considering the rest of the Bears roster) to know what he is. If you want to waste a pick on him as a reclamation project, have at it. But I'm not touching him with a 10-foot pole.
 

forever a gopher said:
Probably huge. That is absolutely helping Hurts, and absolutely a valid point. Although the Bears do at least have a couple credible receivers, especially after the trade for Claypool, which didn't help Fields' numbers. I've seen enough of Fields (even when considering the rest of the Bears roster) to know what he is. If you want to waste a pick on him as a reclamation project, have at it. But I'm not touching him with a 10-foot pole.
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So your whole thing is that Hurts started low and improved steadily since, but Fields started at the top yet hasn’t improved into Mahomes.

He could be a bust, but I don’t think it can be said for sure yet.
 

forever a gopher said:
Probably huge. That is absolutely helping Hurts, and absolutely a valid point. Although the Bears do at least have a couple credible receivers, especially after the trade for Claypool, which didn't help Fields' numbers. I've seen enough of Fields (even when considering the rest of the Bears roster) to know what he is. If you want to waste a pick on him as a reclamation project, have at it. But I'm not touching him with a 10-foot pole.
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Most of the NFL has seen enough from Fields to know he's not the long term answer at QB for a team that expects to compete for a championship. Not even close.

17 pass TD, 11 INT; Fumbled the ball 16 times
Only 60% completion on what was a ton of bubble screens and dump offs
55 times sacked

The OL wasn't that bad at all honestly. The first OL Ranking I could find was as of Week 17, the Bears OL was rated the 11th best OL

For anyone who thinks Fields is the answer and he can play, I'll throw down any modest amount that Fields doesn't start 15 or more games at QB for the Bears in 2024.

The Bears have the #1 overall pick, that doesn't happen very often. We'll see just how much they love Fields; don't forget this GM (Poles) and HC (Eberflus) were not responsible for drafting Fields. They're not married to Fields at all, unless ownership IS married to him.
 

Nax5 said:
I guess we shall see :)
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I
Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
Most of the NFL has seen enough from Fields to know he's not the long term answer at QB for a team that expects to compete for a championship. Not even close.

17 pass TD, 11 INT; Fumbled the ball 16 times
Only 60% completion on what was a ton of bubble screens and dump offs
55 times sacked

The OL wasn't that bad at all honestly. The first OL Ranking I could find was as of Week 17, the Bears OL was rated the 11th best OL

For anyone who thinks Fields is the answer and he can play, I'll throw down any modest amount that Fields doesn't start 15 or more games at QB for the Bears in 2024.

The Bears have the #1 overall pick, that doesn't happen very often. We'll see just how much they love Fields; don't forget this GM (Poles) and HC (Eberflus) were not responsible for drafting Fields. They're not married to Fields at all, unless ownership IS married to him.
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but what if youre not enamored with the QBs in this draft?
 

JimmyJamesMD said:
but what if youre not enamored with the QBs in this draft?
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BINGO. Now THAT is the question, without a doubt. And I think that's the question a lot of people have to ask right now. I don't know? If you don't LOVE one of these guys, then you have to roll with Fields for another year, trade down with someone that loves one of those guys and fix some other holes on the team.

Lots of people thinking the Raiders drafting a QB but honestly, with how shitty the Raiders roster is, I would roll with Jarrett Stidham for this year, sign someone like a Minshew or Nick Mullens even, and fix the rest of that god-awful roster.

I haven't dug into it deep enough to know if any of Young/Stroud/Levis are as good or better than top picks in recent years. The Raiders FO consists of a bunch of Patriots staffers right now, and the Patriots never had a history of drafting a QB very high. I would hope the Patriots trade down, get some more picks, fill some other holes

It'll be interesting to see what the Bears, and a bunch of other teams do in the next couple months.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
BINGO. Now THAT is the question, without a doubt. And I think that's the question a lot of people have to ask right now. I don't know? If you don't LOVE one of these guys, then you have to roll with Fields for another year, trade down with someone that loves one of those guys and fix some other holes on the team.

Lots of people thinking the Raiders drafting a QB but honestly, with how shitty the Raiders roster is, I would roll with Jarrett Stidham for this year, sign someone like a Minshew or Nick Mullens even, and fix the rest of that god-awful roster.

I haven't dug into it deep enough to know if any of Young/Stroud/Levis are as good or better than top picks in recent years. The Raiders FO consists of a bunch of Patriots staffers right now, and the Patriots never had a history of drafting a QB very high. I would hope the Patriots trade down, get some more picks, fill some other holes

It'll be interesting to see what the Bears, and a bunch of other teams do in the next couple months.
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Good post.

I don't know much about these QBs. But let's say Poles thinks they suck. Poles should try and trade back and get a first rounder for next year, to help move up next draft to get a QB
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Fun article in the Strib about CJ Ham and Chris Reed competing in the shot put during a recent open track-&-field meet. Reed is seriously talking about trying to make the next Olympic team.

the article goes through all of the Vikings players who were multi-sport athletes in HS and College.

quotes a trainer who says multi-sport athletes tend to have a lower rate of injury compared to athletes who specialize in one sport full-time.

and I love the bit about Harrison Phillips. he was a state-champion Heavyweight wrestler in HS. during the off-season, he goes back to his old HS to work out and says he'll pay money to anyone who scores a point off him. according to Phillips, he's never had to pay out.
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Here's that article:

www.startribune.com

How Vikings players use multiple sports to power their football success

The team has 62 on the roster who played more than one sport in high school, and there's even an Olympic hopeful in the bunch.
www.startribune.com www.startribune.com

Skol Vikes!!
 





forever a gopher said:
Probably huge. That is absolutely helping Hurts, and absolutely a valid point. Although the Bears do at least have a couple credible receivers, especially after the trade for Claypool, which didn't help Fields' numbers. I've seen enough of Fields (even when considering the rest of the Bears roster) to know what he is. If you want to waste a pick on him as a reclamation project, have at it. But I'm not touching him with a 10-foot pole.
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The point I heard on PTI, for what it’s worth, if you draft a QB this draft, you’re not addressing all the other holes on your roster.
I think being an NFL GM is the hardest front office job by a large margin.
 

How many teams are already planning to tank for Caleb Williams next year?
 

Spaulding!No! said:
Kirk Cousins is a top 5 qb and the vikes are lucky to have him.
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even for your typical sarcastic nature, this is a stretch.

Cousins is a decent QB - but he's not top 5. Maybe not top 10.

ESPN's QBR ratings had Cousins at 23 for the past season. NFL.com had Cousins at 17.
StatMuse had Cousins at 14 for the past season. Pro Football Network at Cousins at 12.
The Ringer had Cousins at 13.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
even for your typical sarcastic nature, this is a stretch.

Cousins is a decent QB - but he's not top 5. Maybe not top 10.

ESPN's QBR ratings had Cousins at 23 for the past season. NFL.com had Cousins at 17.
StatMuse had Cousins at 14 for the past season. Pro Football Network at Cousins at 12.
The Ringer had Cousins at 13.
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Just out of curiosity what is the difference between (say 15 for average if that's Cousins) and 1 vs 15 and 30 for QBR rankings?
 

short ornery norwegian said:
even for your typical sarcastic nature, this is a stretch.

Cousins is a decent QB - but he's not top 5. Maybe not top 10.

ESPN's QBR ratings had Cousins at 23 for the past season. NFL.com had Cousins at 17.
StatMuse had Cousins at 14 for the past season. Pro Football Network at Cousins at 12.
The Ringer had Cousins at 13.
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SMH.... ESPN QBR....

How can anyone take ESPN's rankings seriously when they have Tua at #3, Daniel Jones at #6 and Jacoby Brissett at #8?

Oh, and Joe Burrow at #10 and Justin Herbert at #11?
 


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