All Things 2023 Minnesota Vikings In-Season Thread

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Ope3 said:
Multiple statements can be true at the same time.

As atrocious as the Vikings defense was, there were several games they came up big in the clutch with a stop or TO, ie Bears at home, Patriots, and Bills in OT. Often it should not of needed to come down to that, still it was exciting and dramatic.
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Great point.

Life and therefore sports are rarely in my experience, black & white.
 
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golf said:
Vikings OC talked very convincingly today about the difficulty of going against Flores's defense in camp. Keeping in mind that this time last year glowing words were also being said about Donatell's defense, it is still really nice to hear these words from Phillips.

Still very skeptical as our defense still lacks talent imo. I'd be stunned if our defense finished even middle of the pack.
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Just getting to close to average would be huge. Our offense should score a lot of points again.
 


Strib had a nice article on Ivan Pace Jr. And how they think they got a steal with him as an undrafted FA.
m.startribune.com

Meet undrafted Vikings linebacker Ivan Pace Jr., who coaches say will make a preseason splash

A highly decorated college linebacker, Ivan Pace Jr. went undrafted because of his size. He uses that as fuel.
m.startribune.com m.startribune.com

Here are the first few paragraphs-

The University of Akron traveled to Miami of Ohio back on Nov. 21, 2019. The Zips had a left tackle named Xavior Gray. He stood 6-9 and 330 pounds as he looked down — way down — to line up against a true freshman from Miami named Ivan Pace Jr.


Today, Pace is a 5-10, 231-pound undrafted rookie inside linebacker who's turning heads quickly at Vikings camp with a vertically challenged body that coaches are lauding for its balance, power, quickness and what defensive coordinator Brian Flores calls "built-in leverage."

Back on Nov. 21, 2019, Pace was just an atypically constructed situational pass rusher who had yet to start a college game, who had yet to win Mid-American Conference Defensive Player of the Year or transfer to the University of Cincinnati or win American Athletic Conference Defensive Player of the Year or become UC's first unanimous All-America selection or the Senior Bowl's defensive player of the week.

“If I was 6-2, first, I'd have been at Alabama or Georgia. Then a first-rounder or second-rounder. But that doesn't matter. I'm self-motivated. I don't care if you doubt me or are on my side.”
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Ivan Pace Jr.
 
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Zulgad reporting this morning, based upon his observations at camp, that Pace is challenging Aasamoah for a starting linebacker position. Interesting
 

golf said:
Zulgad reporting this morning, based upon his observations at camp, that Pace is challenging Aasamoah for a starting linebacker position. Interesting
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Could he be our version of Sam Mills? He was a beast at Cincinnati. With our cap situation and sieve of a defense, we could really use a college free agent hidden gem to excel.
 

golf said:
Zulgad reporting this morning, based upon his observations at camp, that Pace is challenging Aasamoah for a starting linebacker position. Interesting
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Maybe him and aasamoah end up both starting. Hicks seems to be on the downside
 



Per Shooter:

Now that Danielle Hunter has his $20 million, one-year contract, next for the Minnesota Vikings is a new mega deal for Justin Jefferson.

That could be tricky.

Whether it’s important to Jefferson, the reigning offensive player of the year, to be the highest-paid non-quarterback in the NFL is unclear. But if it is, it’s worth watching the Nick Bosa saga.

Bosa, 25, the reigning defensive player of the year, is holding out, apparently because he also wants to be the NFL’s highest-paid non-QB.

Jefferson, 23, who isn’t holding out, may want to see Bosa’s new contract before he signs his new deal, which could be worth at least $25 million a year.

www.twincities.com

Charley Walters: How Nick Bosa’s impending deal could make Justin Jefferson richer

It’s unclear whether Jefferson wants to be the highest-paid non QB in the NFL. But if he does, Bosa’s contract will raise his price tag.
www.twincities.com www.twincities.com

Skol Vikes!!
 

BleedGopher said:
Per Shooter:

Now that Danielle Hunter has his $20 million, one-year contract, next for the Minnesota Vikings is a new mega deal for Justin Jefferson.

That could be tricky.

Whether it’s important to Jefferson, the reigning offensive player of the year, to be the highest-paid non-quarterback in the NFL is unclear. But if it is, it’s worth watching the Nick Bosa saga.

Bosa, 25, the reigning defensive player of the year, is holding out, apparently because he also wants to be the NFL’s highest-paid non-QB.

Jefferson, 23, who isn’t holding out, may want to see Bosa’s new contract before he signs his new deal, which could be worth at least $25 million a year.

www.twincities.com

Charley Walters: How Nick Bosa’s impending deal could make Justin Jefferson richer

It’s unclear whether Jefferson wants to be the highest-paid non QB in the NFL. But if he does, Bosa’s contract will raise his price tag.
www.twincities.com www.twincities.com

Skol Vikes!!
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Perfect Price Is Right moment, JJ should ask for just one Buck more than what Bosa gets - 🐐 move.
 
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The Jefferson situation may end up being the one that really epitomizes the relationship between Minnesota sports fans, their teams' athletes and the athletes' salaries.

The phenomenon that I have observed:
Fans yearn for star athletes on their teams.
A star emerges/arrives.
The athlete performs at a high level.
The athlete then signs a mega-contract.
Fans turn on the athlete, almost immediately.

In the fans' eyes, the (now wealthy) athlete often doesn't perform at a level high enough to 'justify' paying him 'all that money'. His salary totally wrecks the salary cap and/or salary structure! We can't sign any good players, and it's because of him!

Example A: Joe Mauer, a local guy. He played like a star, he got paid ('Don't let him go to the Yankees, for God's sake!') and then quickly became a pariah.

Example B: Kirk Cousins. Minnesota Vikings fans long complained about poor QB play. The team signs Cousins. At first: YAY! Then, quickly... BOO! 'He's making too much money, and not playing to a level that justifies it!'

It's particularly interesting that the fan's current favorite whipping boy (Cousins) just might end up moving on from our lovely state, and if that happens it will be at least in part because fan darling Justin Jefferson will get a mega-deal that will (surprise!) strain the salary cap arrangements.

The Vikings will then draft a young, tall, strong-armed QB not named Kirk Cousins (YAY!).

This new, young QB may struggle — as young QBs often do.

Having a struggling young QB will (of course) directly impact the on-field performance/stats of our young star, Justin Jefferson (now uber-wealthy).

And (of course) the Viking defense may be under-staffed due to the new salary cap constraints brought on by Jefferson's contract.

Result: you'll have a star, highly paid receiver, a struggling young QB and a mediocre defense.

What will the fans say then?

'Fire the GM/cap guy/coaching staff', I'd guess.
 

RememberMurray said:
The Jefferson situation may end up being the one that really epitomizes the relationship between Minnesota sports fans, their teams' athletes and the athletes' salaries.

The phenomenon that I have observed:
Fans yearn for star athletes on their teams.
A star emerges/arrives.
The athlete performs at a high level.
The athlete then signs a mega-contract.
Fans turn on the athlete, almost immediately.

In the fans' eyes, the (now wealthy) athlete often doesn't perform at a level high enough to 'justify' paying him 'all that money'. His salary totally wrecks the salary cap and/or salary structure! We can't sign any good players, and it's because of him!

Example A: Joe Mauer, a local guy. He played like a star, he got paid ('Don't let him go to the Yankees, for God's sake!') and then quickly became a pariah.

Example B: Kirk Cousins. Minnesota Vikings fans long complained about poor QB play. The team signs Cousins. At first: YAY! Then, quickly... BOO! 'He's making too much money, and not playing to a level that justifies it!'

It's particularly interesting that the fan's current favorite whipping boy (Cousins) just might end up moving on from our lovely state, and if that happens it will be at least in part because fan darling Justin Jefferson will get a mega-deal that will (surprise!) strain the salary cap arrangements.

The Vikings will then draft a young, tall, strong-armed QB not named Kirk Cousins (YAY!).

This new, young QB may struggle — as young QBs often do.

Having a struggling young QB will (of course) directly impact the on-field performance/stats of our young star, Justin Jefferson (now uber-wealthy).

And (of course) the Viking defense may be under-staffed due to the new salary cap constraints brought on by Jefferson's contract.

Result: you'll have a star, highly paid receiver, a struggling young QB and a mediocre defense.

What will the fans say then?

'Fire the GM/cap guy/coaching staff', I'd guess.
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Great point.

Seems like teams have figured it out with RBs, but not with star WRs (yet).

On offense, if rather my overspending be on a great OL. They tend to make the skill position players more effective
 



RememberMurray said:
The Jefferson situation may end up being the one that really epitomizes the relationship between Minnesota sports fans, their teams' athletes and the athletes' salaries.

The phenomenon that I have observed:
Fans yearn for star athletes on their teams.
A star emerges/arrives.
The athlete performs at a high level.
The athlete then signs a mega-contract.
Fans turn on the athlete, almost immediately.

In the fans' eyes, the (now wealthy) athlete often doesn't perform at a level high enough to 'justify' paying him 'all that money'. His salary totally wrecks the salary cap and/or salary structure! We can't sign any good players, and it's because of him!

Example A: Joe Mauer, a local guy. He played like a star, he got paid ('Don't let him go to the Yankees, for God's sake!') and then quickly became a pariah.

Example B: Kirk Cousins. Minnesota Vikings fans long complained about poor QB play. The team signs Cousins. At first: YAY! Then, quickly... BOO! 'He's making too much money, and not playing to a level that justifies it!'

It's particularly interesting that the fan's current favorite whipping boy (Cousins) just might end up moving on from our lovely state, and if that happens it will be at least in part because fan darling Justin Jefferson will get a mega-deal that will (surprise!) strain the salary cap arrangements.

The Vikings will then draft a young, tall, strong-armed QB not named Kirk Cousins (YAY!).

This new, young QB may struggle — as young QBs often do.

Having a struggling young QB will (of course) directly impact the on-field performance/stats of our young star, Justin Jefferson (now uber-wealthy).

And (of course) the Viking defense may be under-staffed due to the new salary cap constraints brought on by Jefferson's contract.

Result: you'll have a star, highly paid receiver, a struggling young QB and a mediocre defense.

What will the fans say then?

'Fire the GM/cap guy/coaching staff', I'd guess.
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You could add KAT to that list of examples. The guy earns All NBA status as a Top 15 player and the Super Max that comes along with it. Suddenly, he becomes "one of the worst contracts in the league" and some fans want him shipped to the Arctic Circle for a bag of chips.

He can say some stupid stuff on social media but in two (2) years, his contract will be considered average for a Top 30 player. He actually wants to be here, Ant loves him and we don't exactly draw top free agents so hopefully we make the most of his talent.

Jefferson is an interesting situation. If Addison is as good this year as some people claim he can be, I wonder if JJ could be used to land our QB of the future if we part ways with Cousins.
 


Vikings rookie Jordan Addison impressing team's stars after rocky start off the field​


The football stuck in Jordan Addison's hands as the Vikings' rookie receiver dragged his toes along the sideline, completing a tiptoe grab during a recent practice.

But what Addison then did with hands — a little showboating with a first-down point and nod of the helmet — showed the type of growth that fellow receiver Justin Jefferson has witnessed from his new teammate.

"He's starting to talk a little more," Jefferson said. "That's a good thing. He's a quiet, shy guy, so we're really just trying to get him out that comfort zone — that shyness — for him to talk more, dance more, just be himself. But on the field, he's doing a great job. I feel he's learning the playbook very well."

With two weeks of practices notched, Addison, the 23rd overall pick out of USC, is gaining confidence in the playbook, his role and his teammates — many of whom have talked up Addison's natural talent and potential to expand the Vikings' aerial attack.

He's their youngest player, just 21 years old, so Addison said his growing comfort in Minnesota will lead to the jawing and dancing Jefferson wants to see.

"That comes with just knowing what to do," Addison said Monday. "The more comfortable I am, the more I'll be able to express myself."

Addison didn't hesitate to express how ready he is for Thursday night, when the Vikings open the preseason in Seattle. Head coach Kevin O'Connell will likely rest many starters, but he said Addison will play. How many snaps is to be determined.

"I'm so excited," Addison said. "I'm ready to go. I'm trying to get in that box [end zone]."

www.startribune.com

Vikings rookie Jordan Addison has backing of Jefferson, Cousins

Jordan Addison is cementing his role in the Vikings wide receiver room, earning praise from teammates and coach Kevin O'Connell.
www.startribune.com www.startribune.com

Skol Vikes!!
 


RememberMurray said:
The Jefferson situation may end up being the one that really epitomizes the relationship between Minnesota sports fans, their teams' athletes and the athletes' salaries.

The phenomenon that I have observed:
Fans yearn for star athletes on their teams.
A star emerges/arrives.
The athlete performs at a high level.
The athlete then signs a mega-contract.
Fans turn on the athlete, almost immediately.

In the fans' eyes, the (now wealthy) athlete often doesn't perform at a level high enough to 'justify' paying him 'all that money'. His salary totally wrecks the salary cap and/or salary structure! We can't sign any good players, and it's because of him!

Example A: Joe Mauer, a local guy. He played like a star, he got paid ('Don't let him go to the Yankees, for God's sake!') and then quickly became a pariah.

Example B: Kirk Cousins. Minnesota Vikings fans long complained about poor QB play. The team signs Cousins. At first: YAY! Then, quickly... BOO! 'He's making too much money, and not playing to a level that justifies it!'

It's particularly interesting that the fan's current favorite whipping boy (Cousins) just might end up moving on from our lovely state, and if that happens it will be at least in part because fan darling Justin Jefferson will get a mega-deal that will (surprise!) strain the salary cap arrangements.

The Vikings will then draft a young, tall, strong-armed QB not named Kirk Cousins (YAY!).

This new, young QB may struggle — as young QBs often do.

Having a struggling young QB will (of course) directly impact the on-field performance/stats of our young star, Justin Jefferson (now uber-wealthy).

And (of course) the Viking defense may be under-staffed due to the new salary cap constraints brought on by Jefferson's contract.

Result: you'll have a star, highly paid receiver, a struggling young QB and a mediocre defense.

What will the fans say then?

'Fire the GM/cap guy/coaching staff', I'd guess.
Click to expand...
People rightfully rip on Mauer because he destroyed any value he had by moving to 1B. In his first ten seasons, he was an all-time great catcher and a lock future HOFer, a Roy Campanella/Bill Dickey/Mickey Cochrane type player. He moved to 1B for his final five seasons and despite being among the highest-paid players in baseball, was roughly a league-average player. Instead of being the elite hitter and defender he was as a C, he hit like a middle infielder and played OK defense at the least important defensive position on the field.

People who rip on Cousins are stupid. He is roughly the 12th-14th best QB in the league and is paid commensurate with his performance.

Towns is a 7-footer who wants to play on the perimeter and is an absolutely abysmal defensive player. Despite getting paid like a superstar and pretending like he is one, he's already fallen to the 2nd-best player on his own team and is the 2nd fiddle to a guy who is barely legal to drink. He also doesn't win any benefit of the doubt when he spends most of every game whining like a little bitch to the refs.
 

dpodoll68 said:
People rightfully rip on Mauer because he destroyed any value he had by moving to 1B. In his first ten seasons, he was an all-time great catcher and a lock future HOFer, a Roy Campanella/Bill Dickey/Mickey Cochrane type player. He moved to 1B for his final five seasons and despite being among the highest-paid players in baseball, was roughly a league-average player. Instead of being the elite hitter and defender he was as a C, he hit like a middle infielder and played OK defense at the least important defensive position on the field.

People who rip on Cousins are stupid. He is roughly the 12th-14th best QB in the league and is paid commensurate with his performance.

Towns is a 7-footer who wants to play on the perimeter and is an absolutely abysmal defensive player. Despite getting paid like a superstar and pretending like he is one, he's already fallen to the 2nd-best player on his own team and is the 2nd fiddle to a guy who is barely legal to drink. He also doesn't win any benefit of the doubt when he spends most of every game whining like a little bitch to the refs.
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Mauer got hurt and really couldn't play catcher on a regular basis. If they wanted to keep him in the line-up and try to get something from that contract they could play him at 1st, DH him or keep him on the bench.

Don't disagree on Cousins. He was way overpaid when he signed the contract but the rest of the league has caught with him.

Yep, the Wolves went out to get Gobert because Towns wasn't effective defensively at the rim. He was asked to play Power Forward, probably because he was the best 3pt shooter on the team. He whined CONSTANTLY about not getting foul calls. Most of the time he was right, but surely he hurt his case more than helped it. Neither the league or the refs gave a damn. He vastly toned that down when he came back from a long injury last season.

As for being the 2nd best player on the team to Edwards? By the middle of this season the vast majority of the players in the league would be ranked behind Edwards.
 

dpodoll68 said:
People rightfully rip on Mauer because he destroyed any value he had by moving to 1B. In his first ten seasons, he was an all-time great catcher and a lock future HOFer, a Roy Campanella/Bill Dickey/Mickey Cochrane type player. He moved to 1B for his final five seasons and despite being among the highest-paid players in baseball, was roughly a league-average player. Instead of being the elite hitter and defender he was as a C, he hit like a middle infielder and played OK defense at the least important defensive position on the field.

People who rip on Cousins are stupid. He is roughly the 12th-14th best QB in the league and is paid commensurate with his performance.

Towns is a 7-footer who wants to play on the perimeter and is an absolutely abysmal defensive player. Despite getting paid like a superstar and pretending like he is one, he's already fallen to the 2nd-best player on his own team and is the 2nd fiddle to a guy who is barely legal to drink. He also doesn't win any benefit of the doubt when he spends most of every game whining like a little bitch to the refs.
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I agree with pretty much all of this. Nailed it on all 3 counts.
 



Damn. Watching the Raiders-49ers game, two things stick out pretty dramatically.

Trey Lance is really, really bad. This is a lost cause, and they are stuck paying him something like $5M per year on the cap this year and next year I think. Ouch.

Shockingly, Aidan O'Connell is really, really good. Yes, yes, it's preseason, but damn; he makes good decisions with the football, gets rid of the ball, commands the offseason. There's something to be said for a guy who's played a lot of football and O'Connell has played a lot of football.

I would be surprised if/when Jimmy G gets injured at some point during this season, if O'Connell isn't called upon instead of lifetime backup Brian Hoyer.
 


Spaulding!No! said:
Trey is Sidd Finch!
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But, but, but North Dakota State fans kept telling us that Trey Lance was the greatest QB ever, and P.J.Fleck will never have a winning season because he didn't make him the Gopher QB!

I'm paraphrasing of course.
 


Iceland12 said:
But, but, but North Dakota State fans kept telling us that Trey Lance was the greatest QB ever, and P.J.Fleck will never have a winning season because he didn't make him the Gopher QB!

I'm paraphrasing of course.
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Wait, did sf trade 3 first round picks for trey? If this doesn’t turn around it might be the WOAT for draft day moves. Th o there was that ditka thing for the saints
 

I watched Lance play several games for NDSU. He was never the most accurate passer, but he had a strong arm and he could hit deep throws. and in that offense, he was as much of a run threat as a passing threat. going back to HS at Marshall, that was a very run-oriented offense, so he rarely threw the ball. didn't have to throw to win most games.

so - a productive college QB, but not playing in a pro-style system. He was always going to be a project. some projects work out - some don't. from all accounts - and I know people in Marshall - Lance is a good guy from a good family. If he doesn't make it, it's no cause for celebration - unless you get enjoyment from other people's misfortunes.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I watched Lance play several games for NDSU. He was never the most accurate passer, but he had a strong arm and he could hit deep throws. and in that offense, he was as much of a run threat as a passing threat. going back to HS at Marshall, that was a very run-oriented offense, so he rarely threw the ball. didn't have to throw to win most games.

so - a productive college QB, but not playing in a pro-style system. He was always going to be a project. some projects work out - some don't. from all accounts - and I know people in Marshall - Lance is a good guy from a good family. If he doesn't make it, it's no cause for celebration - unless you get enjoyment from other people's misfortunes.
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As an NDSU alum (and lived in Marshall for a few years), I was pulling for Lance more than most. He's certainly got some tools in the toolbox. But like Michael Lombardi says, when you're Momma pulls you from the crib, you're either a QB or you're not and Lance just doesn't seem to be. No harm in that, and lots of people get over-drafted and it's no fault of their own.

It's okay to acknowledge that someone isn't very good at their job. Somehow we got to a point where a mere job assessment has turned into an incredibly negative thing.

Heading into the second preseason game slate, going to be interesting to see the development of some of these younger QB's. O'Connell with the Raiders like I mentioned, and Clayton Tune with the Cardinals are a pair of later round picks I'm watching. Tune is looking pretty decent in Arizona and with Kyler Murray out for a little bit, he only has to beat out Colt McCoy to start games in PHX before Murray gets back. It's still a long shot but he looks the part.

Similarly with O'Connell in Vegas, Jimmy G is certainly no lock to start 17 games for the Raiders with his injury history. Standing between O'Connell and a lot of playing time is (shockingly) long-time backup Brian Hoyer. Ouch.
 


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