All Things 2022 Minnesota Timberwolves Off-Season Thread

jamiche

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
23,285
Reaction score
3,543
Points
113
Also agree with Wolfson. As for Lore and Rodriguez?

How about instead of wasting money and draft choices trying to get a name Front Office guy, how 'bout getting somebody who can rebound and a couple of guys who can shoot!!
Beyond stupid. Maybe they can trade Gupta for a pair of cool shoes to be named later. They don't even own the team. Double beyond stupid.
 

jamiche

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
23,285
Reaction score
3,543
Points
113
With respect to Bleed and Dickie V. (who I never liked until Bleed wrote about him a couple of months ago--now I do) we have our own diaper.com dandy. Lore is going to fuck up what little progress the franchise has finally made. Gupta is clearly competent. Dave Benz was clearly competent. They just weren't fun enough for our own diaper.com dandy.

Sheesh.
 

JimmyJamesMD

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
10,927
Reaction score
2,864
Points
113
I hope that when Bev retires, him and JJ Redick get their own show. Highly entertaining
 


jamiche

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
23,285
Reaction score
3,543
Points
113
Nothing changes. In the early 90's Harv and Marv brought in Trader Jack McCloskey, the guy who put together the Bad Boys Pistons of the 80's. He was supposed to make the franchise relevant. He left a couple of years later with the team in far worse shape than he found it.

Last I checked, Denver hasn't made it out of the second round. Connelly is the new savior?
 


GopherWeatherGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
11,676
Reaction score
6,885
Points
113
Nothing changes. In the early 90's Harv and Marv brought in Trader Jack McCloskey, the guy who put together the Bad Boys Pistons of the 80's. He was supposed to make the franchise relevant. He left a couple of years later with the team in far worse shape than he found it.

Last I checked, Denver hasn't made it out of the second round. Connelly is the new savior?

They were in the western conference finals in the bubble year. The injuries to Jamal Murray and Michael Porter are a reason why they haven't been as good since.

Connelly appears to be a great evaluator of talent in the draft. He has drafted:
Rudy Gobert
Nikola Jokic
Jamal Murray
Malik Beasley
Donovan Mitchell
Monte Morris
Michael Porter
Bones Hyland had a solid rookie season this year

His trade history isn't so great. You could argue he built both Denver and Utah to what they are today. He also helped us out by giving us Beasley and Vanderbilt. He did once trade Doug McDermott for Jusuf Nurkic and Gary Harris though. Denver was still better than the Wolves this season despite their injuries
 

jamiche

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
23,285
Reaction score
3,543
Points
113
They were in the western conference finals in the bubble year. The injuries to Jamal Murray and Michael Porter are a reason why they haven't been as good since.

Connelly appears to be a great evaluator of talent in the draft. He has drafted:
Rudy Gobert
Nikola Jokic
Jamal Murray
Malik Beasley
Donovan Mitchell
Monte Morris
Michael Porter
Bones Hyland had a solid rookie season this year

His trade history isn't so great. You could argue he built both Denver and Utah to what they are today. He also helped us out by giving us Beasley and Vanderbilt. He did once trade Doug McDermott for Jusuf Nurkic and Gary Harris though. Denver was still better than the Wolves this season despite their injuries
My mistake on not getting out of the second round. The point remains. Connelly is not so amazing that it's worth the inevitable disruption that will come with the hiring. It's also not worth the cost of pulling him out of Denver.

The wolves are finally gaining some traction. They have an interim POBO who was smart enough not to make a move at the trade deadline. Gupta appears to be highly regarded inside and outside of the wolves organization, he works well with Finch and he doesn't make ego moves just to impress new owners who only know how to untie their shoes.

It's unfortunate that Gupta isn't exciting enough for the new owners who don't even own the team and possibly never will. To my knowledge, no one has ever questioned Gupta's competence, knowledge, ethics, character or capability. The same can't be said for at least one of the new guys.
 

Iceland12

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
21,948
Reaction score
621
Points
113
They were in the western conference finals in the bubble year. The injuries to Jamal Murray and Michael Porter are a reason why they haven't been as good since.

Connelly appears to be a great evaluator of talent in the draft. He has drafted:
Rudy Gobert
Nikola Jokic
Jamal Murray
Malik Beasley
Donovan Mitchell
Monte Morris
Michael Porter
Bones Hyland had a solid rookie season this year

His trade history isn't so great. You could argue he built both Denver and Utah to what they are today. He also helped us out by giving us Beasley and Vanderbilt. He did once trade Doug McDermott for Jusuf Nurkic and Gary Harris though. Denver was still better than the Wolves this season despite their injuries

Yeah, but did Denver double their win total from '21 to '22? :)

You wrote a pretty solid overview of the situation. It's only that last sentence that's deceptive. Give Thibs and Rosas all the credit for decimating the Wolves roster. Buying Connelly only works if you think that Gupta is gonna be as lousy as Thibodeau and Rosa were.

As for Connelly's overall effect on Denver's success? They've nearly always been better than Minnesota. Here's their Division Title Years: NBA: 9 1977, 1978, 1985, 1988, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2019, 2020

He's been good out there since, but they were only 3 seasons away from back-to-back titles and they went 57-25 the season before Connelly took over!

Could he be successful here? Sure, but at what expense?

They need to focus not in chasing headlines, but on getting rebounders and shooters to help the present roster.

But that's much harder and won't get them the headlines they crave.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
11,676
Reaction score
6,885
Points
113
My mistake on not getting out of the second round. The point remains. Connelly is not so amazing that it's worth the inevitable disruption that will come with the hiring. It's also not worth the cost of pulling him out of Denver.

The wolves are finally gaining some traction. They have an interim POBO who was smart enough not to make a move at the trade deadline. Gupta appears to be highly regarded inside and outside of the wolves organization, he works well with Finch and he doesn't make ego moves just to impress new owners who only know how to untie their shoes.

It's unfortunate that Gupta isn't exciting enough for the new owners who don't even own the team and possibly never will. To my knowledge, no one has ever questioned Gupta's competence, knowledge, ethics, character or capability. The same can't be said for at least one of the new guys.

I could argue that based off of his draft history, Connelly is amazing. He has a proven track record of building a perennial playoff team through the draft. So far Gupta's track record is not making a move at the trade deadline. Maybe he should have? Maybe they would have made the second round if he would have? We don't know what was available and what the cost would have been.

Maybe Gupta is the right answer long term, maybe he isn't. I find it interesting that you continue to say that Lore and ARod are making all of the decisions, yet may never be owners. Those two things don't align.
 
Last edited:



tikited

Me
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
16,019
Reaction score
2,735
Points
113
My mistake on not getting out of the second round. The point remains. Connelly is not so amazing that it's worth the inevitable disruption that will come with the hiring. It's also not worth the cost of pulling him out of Denver.

The wolves are finally gaining some traction. They have an interim POBO who was smart enough not to make a move at the trade deadline. Gupta appears to be highly regarded inside and outside of the wolves organization, he works well with Finch and he doesn't make ego moves just to impress new owners who only know how to untie their shoes.

It's unfortunate that Gupta isn't exciting enough for the new owners who don't even own the team and possibly never will. To my knowledge, no one has ever questioned Gupta's competence, knowledge, ethics, character or capability. The same can't be said for at least one of the new guys.
Anytime we can steal someone with talent from another organization...I'm happy about it.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
11,676
Reaction score
6,885
Points
113
Yeah, but did Denver double their win total from '21 to '22? :)

You wrote a pretty solid overview of the situation. It's only that last sentence that's deceptive. Give Thibs and Rosas all the credit for decimating the Wolves roster. Buying Connelly only works if you think that Gupta is gonna be as lousy as Thibodeau and Rosa were.

As for Connelly's overall effect on Denver's success? They've nearly always been better than Minnesota. Here's their Division Title Years: NBA: 9 1977, 1978, 1985, 1988, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2019, 2020

He's been good out there since, but they were only 3 seasons away from back-to-back titles and they went 57-25 the season before Connelly took over!

Could he be successful here? Sure, but at what expense?

They need to focus not in chasing headlines, but on getting rebounders and shooters to help the present roster.

But that's much harder and won't get them the headlines they crave.

I'm not sure why my last sentence is deceptive considering it is a fact. If Murray comes back healthy next season, Denver will be better than they were this year. Porter is a wild card, and you can argue giving him a big contract was a mistake with his back history, but he looked really good two years ago.

Denver was good the season prior to Connelly arriving, but they also had their 4th 1st round exit in a row. That team was a collection of good, but not great players. He completely rebuilt the team through the draft and a few trades to what they have today. Previous Nuggets or Wolves rosters from the 00s, 90s, 80s, 70s, have no bearing on what exists today.

They could think Gupta can be good, but still think Connelly is better. One currently has a track record, and the other doesn't.
 

short ornery norwegian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
13,899
Reaction score
6,189
Points
113
What I'm seeing on Twitter is people posting that Lore and A-Rod want to make "a splash hire."

Gupta may be a great guy, but he's seen as boring.

Lore and A-Rod don't want to be associated with boring.

whether that is a good strategy or not remains to be seen.
 

jamiche

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
23,285
Reaction score
3,543
Points
113
I could argue that based off of his draft history, Connelly is amazing. He has a proven track record of building a perennial playoff team through the draft. So far Gupta's track record is not making a move at the trade deadline. Maybe he should have? Maybe they would have made the second round if he would have? We don't know what was available and what the cost would have been.

Maybe Gupta is the right answer long term, maybe he isn't. I find it interesting that you continue to say that Lore and ARod are making all of the decisions, yet may never be owners. Those two things don't align.
Actually, they do align. Harv and Marv turned the operation of the team over to Taylor before he completed the purchase. It appears that Taylor is doing the same thing.

Sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't do. It would have been super easy for Gupta to trade Beasley or Prince at the deadline to show the bosses that he was doing "something." I'm sure there were rival POBO's who recognized his situation and offered pennies on the dollar. He sat tight. That's putting the best interests of the franchise above his own.

Finally, I'm not buying all of the Finch adoration. He made several mistakes in the Grizzlies series. However, he is a really good coach. Easily the best since what Adelman was supposed to be. He wants to work with Gupta. I trust that.
 



Iceland12

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
21,948
Reaction score
621
Points
113
A 67-to-72-game season, like the one played in 2021, would probably solve their issues, but it’s a lot to ask of a league that’s been committed to 82-game seasons since 1967. Owners and players also have no interest in reducing gate receipts or basketball-related income from those extra home games, no matter how small a percentage it is of the total pie.

The NBA midseason tournament has been discussed every few months throughout Silver’s tenure as commissioner. Silver has recently disclosed that negotiations have begun with the union about some sort of instituting a midseason tournament, but according to The Athletic’s Shams Charania, the NBA is mulling over a midseason tournament as early as 2023..

 


GopherWeatherGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
11,676
Reaction score
6,885
Points
113
Actually, they do align. Harv and Marv turned the operation of the team over to Taylor before he completed the purchase. It appears that Taylor is doing the same thing.

Sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't do. It would have been super easy for Gupta to trade Beasley or Prince at the deadline to show the bosses that he was doing "something." I'm sure there were rival POBO's who recognized his situation and offered pennies on the dollar. He sat tight. That's putting the best interests of the franchise above his own.

Finally, I'm not buying all of the Finch adoration. He made several mistakes in the Grizzlies series. However, he is a really good coach. Easily the best since what Adelman was supposed to be. He wants to work with Gupta. I trust that.

So you're not buying the Finch adoration, which I agree with you on, but yet want to keep Gupta because Finch wants him? That also doesn't add up to me. I think Finch is a good coach, but could the Wolves do better? Possibly.

And even if Lore/ARod are making the decisions now, why are you so worried about someone other than Taylor, who has proven to be the worst owner in all of professional sports for nearly 30 years now, making those decisions? I'd rather have someone not named Glen Taylor making that decision.

If some people want Gupta, I can understand that. But it's not like they are trying to bring in some unknown executive from their circle of buddies. Connelly has a very good track record as an executive VP for 9 years now. Keeping Gupta or hiring someone like the Vikings did with KAM is a far bigger risk than hiring Connelly.
 

kg21

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2021
Messages
8,360
Reaction score
3,535
Points
113
I have an awesome in-game adjustment.

When they advertise the game starting at 7:30, such as tonight's Celtics-heat game, then tip it off at 7:30

My gawd, the never-ending bullshit until they tip is nauseating.
 

Iceland12

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
21,948
Reaction score
621
Points
113
I have an awesome in-game adjustment.

When they advertise the game starting at 7:30, such as tonight's Celtics-heat game, then tip it off at 7:30

My gawd, the never-ending bullshit until they tip is nauseating.

Then they can take Jackson and Van Gundy off the telecast. Having two guys that dream of being Head Coaches again gives you nothing.
 

jamiche

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
23,285
Reaction score
3,543
Points
113
So you're not buying the Finch adoration, which I agree with you on, but yet want to keep Gupta because Finch wants him? That also doesn't add up to me. I think Finch is a good coach, but could the Wolves do better? Possibly.

And even if Lore/ARod are making the decisions now, why are you so worried about someone other than Taylor, who has proven to be the worst owner in all of professional sports for nearly 30 years now, making those decisions? I'd rather have someone not named Glen Taylor making that decision.

If some people want Gupta, I can understand that. But it's not like they are trying to bring in some unknown executive from their circle of buddies. Connelly has a very good track record as an executive VP for 9 years now. Keeping Gupta or hiring someone like the Vikings did with KAM is a far bigger risk than hiring Connelly.
Not buying the Finch adoration doesn't mean that I don't think he's a very good coach. I do think he's a very good coach and the fact that he's comfortable working with Gupta means a lot.

Connelly is a good GM, but he hasn't won a championship. Is he worth breaking up what the wolves are building organizationally, especially when the decision is being made by two guys who have no experience evaluating NBA front office talent? I don't think so. Is he worth what the wolves would have to give up to get Denver to let him go? I don't think so.

A smart owner takes a couple of years to learn the league and his team before making huge moves. ARod and Lore should be spending their time trying to find big boy money so that they can actually buy the team, instead of meddling in operations. Let Finch and Gupta keep trying to improve the product. If they can't, there will be plenty of opportunities to make changes.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
11,676
Reaction score
6,885
Points
113
Not buying the Finch adoration doesn't mean that I don't think he's a very good coach. I do think he's a very good coach and the fact that he's comfortable working with Gupta means a lot.

Connelly is a good GM, but he hasn't won a championship. Is he worth breaking up what the wolves are building organizationally, especially when the decision is being made by two guys who have no experience evaluating NBA front office talent? I don't think so. Is he worth what the wolves would have to give up to get Denver to let him go? I don't think so.

A smart owner takes a couple of years to learn the league and his team before making huge moves. ARod and Lore should be spending their time trying to find big boy money so that they can actually buy the team, instead of meddling in operations. Let Finch and Gupta keep trying to improve the product. If they can't, there will be plenty of opportunities to make changes.

What experience did Taylor have evaluating front office talent when he began? What track record does he have today? You're worried about breaking up this Wolves roster which won't be near a championship roster as constructed today. Moves have to be made.

Lore/ARod have to hire a new president of basketball operations because the last one thought with his little head and not his big one. They didn't come in and choose to shake things up just to shake things up. That's who you're worried about replacing?

For as much crap as Thibs gets he was responsible for bringing in the best player the Wolves have had since KG. The regime you're worried about replacing traded Wiggins and 1st rounder for DLo. You're worried about replacing that decision making with a person who has proven a lot more than who's currently in place?
 

jamiche

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
23,285
Reaction score
3,543
Points
113
What experience did Taylor have evaluating front office talent when he began? What track record does he have today? You're worried about breaking up this Wolves roster which won't be near a championship roster as constructed today. Moves have to be made.

Lore/ARod have to hire a new president of basketball operations because the last one thought with his little head and not his big one. They didn't come in and choose to shake things up just to shake things up. That's who you're worried about replacing?

For as much crap as Thibs gets he was responsible for bringing in the best player the Wolves have had since KG. The regime you're worried about replacing traded Wiggins and 1st rounder for DLo. You're worried about replacing that decision making with a person who has proven a lot more than who's currently in place?
Taylor had no experience but he hired McHale and Flip, then he pretty much left them alone. They had a nine year run of competence, which wasn't bad. It would have been better if Taylor hadn't tried to screw his fellow owners by signing Joe Smith to a secret deal. That cost the team several draft picks over multiple years, IIRC.

Taylor has been a lousy owner. Nobody would argue that. He's compounding his mismanagement by turning the team over to two guys who don't own a controlling interest, have no NBA or sports ownership experience and one of whom is a serial liar. He's also compounding his mismanagement by turning the team over to two guys who have no reason to keep our team here and then lying about that part of the deal.

The message that Lore and ARod are sending is that they aren't going to leave their employees alone to do their jobs and, if you don't excite them, you're gone.

Rosas gets credit for putting this roster together. He gets the blame for the terrible DLo trade and the Culver trade/draft. If the rumors are correct that his staff opposed those two moves, it's probably safe to assume that Gupta was a part of that opposition. Rosas gets the blame for badly mismanaging the department. Gupta gets credit for restoring stability and morale to the department. Gupta gets credit for not making a trade at the deadline just to show ARod and Lore he was "doing something." I'm sure the other POBO's were circling him like chum in the water.

Finally, if the rumors are accurate that they are talking to Connelly about an eight year deal, what morons do eight year deals anymore? Angels for Pujols? Wild for Suter and Parise?

The wolves are going to turn their basketball ops over to a guy who has never won a championship for eight years? Crazy. When Lore and ARod and their cool shoes become distant memories, the wolves will be living for quite a while with that contract. If Lore and ARod actually find the money to complete the purchase of the team, it will cost them a lot of money to buy Connelly out once they are bored by him.
 

short ornery norwegian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
13,899
Reaction score
6,189
Points
113
I get the sense from some of the things I've read/heard is that Lore and A-Rod like Gupta, but they don't think he's the type of guy who can pull off "the big deal."

from all accounts, Gupta is a good guy and the T-Wolves front office is drama-free, but the ultimate goal is still to assemble a roster that can contend for a title.

Apparently A-Rod and Lore think they need a more "high-powered" type running the show.

also read that Finch was an assistant for a time at Denver when Connelly was the POBO there, so the two at least have some history.
 

Iceland12

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
21,948
Reaction score
621
Points
113
I get the sense from some of the things I've read/heard is that Lore and A-Rod like Gupta, but they don't think he's the type of guy who can pull off "the big deal."

Yeah, maybe he'll be able to turn Beasley, Russell, Okogie and a 2nd into Durant and two firsts ..
 

Iceland12

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
21,948
Reaction score
621
Points
113
This should silence all the worriers. Glen Taylor is gonna meet Tim Connelly and make sure he's what the Wolves need and make sure he's the right fit.

You know. the way he did with Wiggins and Thibodeau.

"Denver Nuggets president of basketball operations Tim Connelly is traveling to meet with Minnesota Timberwolves owner Glen Taylor this weekend in the next step in the team's pursuit to hire Connelly and make him one of the NBA's highest-compensated executives, sources told ESPN.

Connelly has discussed the job extensively with Timberwolves minority owners Marc Lore and Alex Rodriguez in the past week, and meeting with Taylor is next in the process, sources said.

Connelly has long professed his affinity and devotion to the Western Conference contender and organization that he has built with the Nuggets, but he could become the second consecutive top basketball executive to leave the Nuggets for a significantly more lucrative offer elsewhere. Connelly replaced Masai Ujiri in 2013 when Ujiri left Denver for Toronto...

Connelly turned down an opportunity to become the Washington Wizards' top basketball executive three years ago, choosing to remain with the Nuggets. Connelly grew up in Baltimore and spent the first several years of his front-office career with Washington..."


 





atsgopher

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
994
Reaction score
345
Points
63
Yeah, maybe he'll be able to turn Beasley, Russell, Okogie and a 2nd into Durant and two firsts ..
What would it take the wolves to get Lilliard? Would you want him given projected cost?
 

TruthSeeker

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2014
Messages
6,241
Reaction score
2,688
Points
113
What would it take the wolves to get Lilliard? Would you want him given projected cost?
He's past his prime. They'd be foolish to even consider him.

If he was a few years younger, then it'd be worth it. He'd help the Wolves get a top 4 seed in the Wset.
 




Top Bottom