All Things 2021-2022 Minnesota Timberwolves In-Season Thread

Iceland12

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The Wolves had the 5th highest scoring bench in the NBA this season. They weren't great last night, but they have been a bright spot for the Wolves most of the season.

I'll agree on DLo though. He was good last night and is a far better leader than Towns.

Okay but still disagree. Seems that they were outscored by the other team's bench on a regular basis. Only when the played very bad teams did they "dominate". The bench generally went as Beasley went. When he was good, they were good. When he wasn't they weren't.

The Wolves were the number 1 scoring offense overall. Memphis was the 2nd by the way. Would be curious how the Wolves bench did on defense too.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Okay but still disagree. Seems that they were outscored by the other team's bench on a regular basis. Only when the played very bad teams did they "dominate". The bench generally went as Beasley went. When he was good, they were good. When he wasn't they weren't.

The Wolves were the number 1 scoring offense overall. Memphis was the 2nd by the way. Would be curious how the Wolves bench did on defense too.

I think I may have misheard on the broadcast the other night but here are the bench stats for Memphis and Minnesota.

Bench Scored PPG
Memphis - 6th - 38.9 PPG
Minnesota - 8th - 38.7 PPG

Bench Allowed PPG
Memphis - 5th - 37.6 PPG
Minnesota - 8th - 37.0 PPG

Memphis Bench is +1.3
Minnesota's Bench is +1.7

Beasley is a big part of it, but McDaniels, Prince, Reid, and Nowell have all been good off of the bench too. The Wolves bench was +11 in game 1.

 

Bad Gopher

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What we saw was timeless sports stuff: the good things that can happen when you keep playing (Grizzlies) and the bad things that happen when you ease up or stop playing (Timberwolves). Barkley is right: pro players and teams should be expected to play with savvy and intelligence. I saw very dumb basketball down the stretch of that game.
 

Iceland12

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I think I may have misheard on the broadcast the other night but here are the bench stats for Memphis and Minnesota.

Bench Scored PPG
Memphis - 6th - 38.9 PPG
Minnesota - 8th - 38.7 PPG

Bench Allowed PPG
Memphis - 5th - 37.6 PPG
Minnesota - 8th - 37.0 PPG

Memphis Bench is +1.3
Minnesota's Bench is +1.7

Beasley is a big part of it, but McDaniels, Prince, Reid, and Nowell have all been good off of the bench too. The Wolves bench was +11 in game 1.


Thanks for the link. They were -17 in Game 2, but everybody played in that one.

Agree that all 4 of those guys have shined at one time of another. Their inconsistency though has been troubling. Though over 82 games who knows. Still seems that when Beasley has a good night so does the bench. And his inconsistency has been troubling.
 

Breakin' The Plane

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Russell was 4 of 8 from 3 last night, he was their leading scorer and was a +4 overall. While there is plenty of blame to be spread around, he wasn't the main problem last night.

Towns was. Though he wasn't alone among the wretched in those 2 damn quarters.

Edwards didn't show-up in the first half and was -9 for the game. Bane just lit him up. You can throw in Prince and Beasley too. They were all brutally bad. The Wolves bench itself was outscored 41-22 last night. Their depth was been their undoing all year.

Season was better than most thought it would be, but the ending probably won't be.
This wasn't meant as a criticism of DLo from last night. More of his approach in general. Edwards is the same way. Shot selection often leaves a lot to be desired.
 


GopherWeatherGuy

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Thanks for the link. They were -17 in Game 2, but everybody played in that one.

Agree that all 4 of those guys have shined at one time of another. Their inconsistency though has been troubling. Though over 82 games who knows. Still seems that when Beasley has a good night so does the bench. And his inconsistency has been troubling.

Out of boredom and curiosity I pulled the regular season bench stats for everyone from that link. Just looking strictly at bench points scored vs bench points allowed. The Wolves ranked 9th in the NBA.

#TeamPPGAllowedDifference
1L.A. Clippers40.0328
2Miami40.532.67.9
3Washington39.433.16.3
4San Antonio39.8354.8
5Utah38.433.84.6
6Golden State36.833.23.6
7Atlanta35.633.52.1
8Cleveland35.433.61.8
9Minnesota38.7371.7
10L.A. Lakers36.635.11.5
11Orlando37.4361.4
12Memphis38.937.61.3
13Detroit38.937.71.2
14New York33.2321.2
15Phoenix35.4350.4
16Houston39.339.10.2
17Denver36.636.60
18Dallas32.532.9-0.4
19Indiana36.537.1-0.6
20Charlotte36.036.6-0.6
21Boston30.231.6-1.4
22Brooklyn33.635.1-1.5
23Sacramento36.638.2-1.6
24Oklahoma City35.136.9-1.8
25New Orleans33.636.3-2.7
26Philadelphia27.232.3-5.1
27Chicago26.733.4-6.7
28Toronto25.733.7-8
29Portland32.040.6-8.6
30Milwaukee27.837.2-9.4

 

Iceland12

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Out of boredom and curiosity I pulled the regular season bench stats for everyone from that link. Just looking strictly at bench points scored vs bench points allowed. The Wolves ranked 9th in the NBA.

#TeamPPGAllowedDifference
1L.A. Clippers40.0328
2Miami40.532.67.9
3Washington39.433.16.3
4San Antonio39.8354.8
5Utah38.433.84.6
6Golden State36.833.23.6
7Atlanta35.633.52.1
8Cleveland35.433.61.8
9Minnesota38.7371.7
10L.A. Lakers36.635.11.5
11Orlando37.4361.4
12Memphis38.937.61.3
13Detroit38.937.71.2
14New York33.2321.2
15Phoenix35.4350.4
16Houston39.339.10.2
17Denver36.636.60
18Dallas32.532.9-0.4
19Indiana36.537.1-0.6
20Charlotte36.036.6-0.6
21Boston30.231.6-1.4
22Brooklyn33.635.1-1.5
23Sacramento36.638.2-1.6
24Oklahoma City35.136.9-1.8
25New Orleans33.636.3-2.7
26Philadelphia27.232.3-5.1
27Chicago26.733.4-6.7
28Toronto25.733.7-8
29Portland32.040.6-8.6
30Milwaukee27.837.2-9.4


Nice. Now do it with and without Beasley. ;)
 







ecoperson

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I am surprised that you are all surprised at last night. The Wolves have NOT shown the ability to play defense consistently all year. Defense wins in the playoffs. The Wolves outscored teams in the regular season while many teams are just going through the motion.

The Wolves are a 7 seed playing the team with the 2nd best record in the league. The shocker wasn't blowing these leads. I expected them to wilt when the pressure was on. They have shown an uncanny ability to let the other team go on runs. The shocker was winning game 1 in Memphis while holding a small lead.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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I am surprised that you are all surprised at last night. The Wolves have NOT shown the ability to play defense consistently all year. Defense wins in the playoffs. The Wolves outscored teams in the regular season while many teams are just going through the motion.

The Wolves are a 7 seed playing the team with the 2nd best record in the league. The shocker wasn't blowing these leads. I expected them to wilt when the pressure was on. They have shown an uncanny ability to let the other team go on runs. The shocker was winning game 1 in Memphis while holding a small lead.

Defense wasn't the issue last night. The Grizzlies only scored 104.

The Wolves scored 47 in the first 13:32 of the game. They then only scored 48 over the last 34:28. That was the issue.
 



Iceland12

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I am surprised that you are all surprised at last night...

You weren't surprised about what happened last night?

You anticipated that the Wolves would get 26 and 23 point leads in two different quarters last night and lose them both.

I'm surprised you didn't post that before the game happened..
 

kg21

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You weren't surprised about what happened last night?

You anticipated that the Wolves would get 26 and 23 point leads in two different quarters last night and lose them both.

I'm surprised you didn't post that before the game happened..
Up 27.....I was thinking I will get to see Bolmaro tonight.
 

howeda7

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You weren't surprised about what happened last night?

You anticipated that the Wolves would get 26 and 23 point leads in two different quarters last night and lose them both.

I'm surprised you didn't post that before the game happened..
I'm sad I was watching on DVR. The live money-line action on Memphis must have been $$$$ unless it was so absurd they pulled it down.
 


short ornery norwegian

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Boy, I don't know if I've ever seen public opinion flip on a player as quickly as it has on Towns.

Certainly, there have been gripes about him this season, especially for whining to the refs. But in general, the consensus on Towns this year seemed to be that he had grown up and was becoming an all-star caliber player.

Then, in the span of about 10 days, it flipped to "Towns stinks. Wolves can't win with Towns."

as of today, I think Towns may be the most unpopular athlete in the Twin Cities - surpassing Kirk Cousins or whichever member of the Twins that people are mad at on any given day....Sano, Kepler, etc.

So now, the Wolves management is faced with some interesting issues. Do you keep Towns and hope he can change? Do you try to trade him?------prompting the question, what can you get in return for a player whose image has been so badly damaged on a national level?

Yikes.

I think I saw a tweet that the new owners - at least A-Rod - left the arena before the end of the game. that is another piece of the puzzle - how much say will Lore and A-Rod have in decision-making?
 

forever a gopher

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The thing about KAT's 3 bad games is not that they were bad games, or he was just 'cold'. He let the other team get in his head and he committed really terrible fouls, and then throws his hands up every time and complains to the ref like they're screwing him over. He is no longer a young player that gets a pass. He is a veteran that should be counted on as a leader, considering what he's getting paid. Being a leader isn't complaining to the ref and pouting on the sideline. Ant didn't have a great game 3, but I'll cut him a bunch of slack, as he is still a young guy playing in his first playoff series.

KAT has wilted in the face of adversity, and if I'm Rosas Gupta, I'm definitely listening to offers this offseason if they can get decent value. People have crapped on DLo plenty, but he's been a much better leader than KAT these last 4 games.
 

BleedGopher

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The thing about KAT's 3 bad games is not that they were bad games, or he was just 'cold'. He let the other team get in his head and he committed really terrible fouls, and then throws his hands up every time and complains to the ref like they're screwing him over. He is no longer a young player that gets a pass. He is a veteran that should be counted on as a leader, considering what he's getting paid. Being a leader isn't complaining to the ref and pouting on the sideline. Ant didn't have a great game 3, but I'll cut him a bunch of slack, as he is still a young guy playing in his first playoff series.

KAT has wilted in the face of adversity, and if I'm Rosas, I'm definitely listening to offers this offseason if they can get decent value. People have crapped on DLo plenty, but he's been a much better leader than KAT these last 4 games.

If you're Rosas, you are hoping you can keep your junk in your pants long enough to keep the next front office job, and not really caring about the Wolves anymore.

Howl Wolves!!
 

howeda7

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Boy, I don't know if I've ever seen public opinion flip on a player as quickly as it has on Towns.

Certainly, there have been gripes about him this season, especially for whining to the refs. But in general, the consensus on Towns this year seemed to be that he had grown up and was becoming an all-star caliber player.

Then, in the span of about 10 days, it flipped to "Towns stinks. Wolves can't win with Towns."

as of today, I think Towns may be the most unpopular athlete in the Twin Cities - surpassing Kirk Cousins or whichever member of the Twins that people are mad at on any given day....Sano, Kepler, etc.

So now, the Wolves management is faced with some interesting issues. Do you keep Towns and hope he can change? Do you try to trade him?------prompting the question, what can you get in return for a player whose image has been so badly damaged on a national level?

Yikes.

I think I saw a tweet that the new owners - at least A-Rod - left the arena before the end of the game. that is another piece of the puzzle - how much say will Lore and A-Rod have in decision-making?
Supposedly A-Rod follows everyone on the team on Twitter except KAT. Not sure if that's true, but if so, very telling.

He's "damaged" goods to some extent. But it's not a Ben Simmons situation. They should get a lot for him.
 



forever a gopher

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Boy, I don't know if I've ever seen public opinion flip on a player as quickly as it has on Towns.

Certainly, there have been gripes about him this season, especially for whining to the refs. But in general, the consensus on Towns this year seemed to be that he had grown up and was becoming an all-star caliber player.

Then, in the span of about 10 days, it flipped to "Towns stinks. Wolves can't win with Towns."

as of today, I think Towns may be the most unpopular athlete in the Twin Cities - surpassing Kirk Cousins or whichever member of the Twins that people are mad at on any given day....Sano, Kepler, etc.

So now, the Wolves management is faced with some interesting issues. Do you keep Towns and hope he can change? Do you try to trade him?------prompting the question, what can you get in return for a player whose image has been so badly damaged on a national level?

Yikes.

I think I saw a tweet that the new owners - at least A-Rod - left the arena before the end of the game. that is another piece of the puzzle - how much say will Lore and A-Rod have in decision-making?

I think we want so badly for our stars to be good that we overlook a lot of stuff. KAT has never really been a leader, and Bulter lit him up for it. We dismissed it as Butler being a cancer, but maybe he was right. The Wolves need so badly for a player like KAT to be good, because if he isn't, it likely means the team will just keep on trudging along and not be relevant.

It's similar to when there were a lot of Wiggins holdouts, hoping he was going to become something he wasn't. We wanted so badly for him to be the "franchise player". He's seemingly found himself a nice role in Golden State, probably because the expectations for him match what he is, and they aren't forcing him to be the face of the franchise like the Wolves were.

There also just hasn't been enough experience with KAT in the playoffs to know what would happen, so we've been blissfully ignorant. It's not that he hasn't been good, it's HOW he hasn't been good, and how he's reacted that is the disturbing thing. Hopefully he learns and grows, but as a MN sports fan, I'm highly skeptical.
 

kg21

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We've got various issues.

Vando is not a starter for a contending team. The other team is not even defending him. It's 4 on 5 basketball. You just can't have that. He is too small to play him where they play him, also. He hustles and gives his all, but it's not good enough. Would love him coming off the bench and bringing energy.

DLO is making 30 million +...............he is so overpaid that I could cry. He isn't overly quick. He can slither and get his shot sometimes, but he doesn't break a defense down. He can't defend either.

Beverly...............should be coming off the bench. He is too small to play him at the off guard spot. He's not a big scorer, etc. Good player, but him teams never do much in the playoffs.

Naz..............not a fan. Plays weak defense and is greatly exposed in the playoffs.

McDaniels........he's alright, but I think he is what he is and always will be. Makes a great play here and there, teases you a little with what he could be, etc.

Beasley.......getting paid a ton, but when they guard in the playoffs, he's not much.

We have some damn good regular season players that don't translate well to playoff basketball.

Towns I skipped because it's all been posted in this thread. Keep in mind that if Memphis doesn't play Adams in game one, this is more that likely 3-0 and a total route.
 
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kg21

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Now on to Ant. What exactly do we have in him?

Is he going to be a superstar, or a tease? By tease, I mean putting up numbers and being unguardable one night to all over the place the next few nights.

If you think he is the guy, then just build around him.
 

atsgopher

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I am surprised that you are all surprised at last night. The Wolves have NOT shown the ability to play defense consistently all year. Defense wins in the playoffs. The Wolves outscored teams in the regular season while many teams are just going through the motion.

The Wolves are a 7 seed playing the team with the 2nd best record in the league. The shocker wasn't blowing these leads. I expected them to wilt when the pressure was on. They have shown an uncanny ability to let the other team go on runs. The shocker was winning game 1 in Memphis while holding a small lead.
Agreed. My brother had just brought their knack for playing stupid when up on Tuesday.
Boy, I don't know if I've ever seen public opinion flip on a player as quickly as it has on Towns.

Certainly, there have been gripes about him this season, especially for whining to the refs. But in general, the consensus on Towns this year seemed to be that he had grown up and was becoming an all-star caliber player.

Then, in the span of about 10 days, it flipped to "Towns stinks. Wolves can't win with Towns."

as of today, I think Towns may be the most unpopular athlete in the Twin Cities - surpassing Kirk Cousins or whichever member of the Twins that people are mad at on any given day....Sano, Kepler, etc.

So now, the Wolves management is faced with some interesting issues. Do you keep Towns and hope he can change? Do you try to trade him?------prompting the question, what can you get in return for a player whose image has been so badly damaged on a national level?

Yikes.

I think I saw a tweet that the new owners - at least A-Rod - left the arena before the end of the game. that is another piece of the puzzle - how much say will Lore and A-Rod have in decision-making?
everyone I know that into basketball had this opinion of Towns (mentally weak) and thought he was starting to learn/ build it this seaso . So I’m not sure if it’s so much a flip, as a lot don’t think he may have been progressing as much as they thought earlier.
 

ecoperson

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You weren't surprised about what happened last night?

You anticipated that the Wolves would get 26 and 23 point leads in two different quarters last night and lose them both.

I'm surprised you didn't post that before the game happened..
I am not trying to be Nostradamus. 20+ leads are lost many times each NBA season. They are not a rarity. There have been so many instances of the Wolves not being able to stop a run this year against both good and bad squads. Memphis cut those large leads in half in a matter of a few minutes bringing the deficit to a handful of possessions.

The Wolves just had no answer for Morant. He turned it on and off as needed like a bathroom faucet.
 

ecoperson

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Defense wasn't the issue last night. The Grizzlies only scored 104.

The Wolves scored 47 in the first 13:32 of the game. They then only scored 48 over the last 34:28. That was the issue.
I disagree. The Wolves needed a defensive stop to stop those runs and looked downright silly in the process. Defense leads to offense. They needed an easy bucket to staunch the run.

Memphis sleepwalked through much of the 1st and 3rd and still ended up with over 100. That's on the defense.

As for the offense, it has been hot and cold all season. I am sure that there are stats to tell this story but when they are cold, they are COLD. That is when teams make runs on them. I have seen enough of these runs from bottom dwellers and front runners alike to see the pattern.

The Wolves' offense is not built for efficient scoring. It relies on hot 3-point shooting and fast break baskets. It is not predicated on precise sets that lead to must-have baskets.

I am disappointed but not surprised.
 





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