After Reading the Report Thoughts

[Bob_Loblaw]

That was the one thing that stood out for me and clearly breaks the Student Code of Conduct as it relates to sex in my mind, no wiggle room at all for those that participated, when you add multiples to it I say goodbye.

I wasn't implying her confusion meant that there was not consent.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Some people read the report and come to the same conclusion the eoaa did. The pd and others saw the same evidence and more and came to what appears to be a different conclusion. Truth might lie somewhere in the middle. It is impossible to know where but it is highly likely there are some lies being told or truth being stretched by one or all parties involved. It is also clear the report makes a lot of assumptions with no real evidence. If anything in the report it true some sort of punishment is required and a serious change in the culture at the u is needed.

The culture change you are seeking would be needed throughout the entire country. If it was not consensual. . . it's a crime and should be punished. If it was consensual. . . I really hope a public university doesn't choose students based on the sexual practices that they agree with. If it was consensual, I can't see how anyone can argue it was our business.

 

[Some guy]

The culture change you are seeking would be needed throughout the entire country. If it was not consensual. . . it's a crime and should be punished. If it was consensual. . . I really hope a public university doesn't choose students based on the sexual practices that they agree with. If it was consensual, I can't see how anyone can argue it was our business.

Agree with this.

And if it wasn't consensual, behavior was clearly criminal. So if the police determined they couldn't move forward I don't understand how a group who does not have a background doing criminal investigations has the ability to make that distinction. Clearly a flawed system.

The professionals say not a crime, but this group says crime so you're guilty and expelled. That's a dangerous precedent to set.

I think the u of m is going to be settling many lawsuits.

 

[minny01]

Agree with this.

And if it wasn't consensual, behavior was clearly criminal. So if the police determined they couldn't move forward I don't understand how a group who does not have a background doing criminal investigations has the ability to make that distinction. Clearly a flawed system.

The professionals say not a crime, but this group says crime so you're guilty and expelled. That's a dangerous precedent to set.

I think the u of m is going to be settling many lawsuits.

Completely agree with this. And on top of it, Kaler referred to the players as rapists on television today.

 

[Some guy]

Completely agree with this. And on top of it, Kaler referred to the players as rapists on television today.

He did. It is unbelievable. Every public school employee in the country would know they couldn't make comments like that about students facing punishment. He needs to consult with legal ASAP.

 

[CentralGopher]

The culture change you are seeking would be needed throughout the entire country. If it was not consensual. . . it's a crime and should be punished. If it was consensual. . . I really hope a public university doesn't choose students based on the sexual practices that they agree with. If it was consensual, I can't see how anyone can argue it was our business.

Gangbang and out picking up hoes culture isnt country wide culture unless I am missing something.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Agree with this.

And if it wasn't consensual, behavior was clearly criminal. So if the police determined they couldn't move forward I don't understand how a group who does not have a background doing criminal investigations has the ability to make that distinction. Clearly a flawed system.

The professionals say not a crime, but this group says crime so you're guilty and expelled. That's a dangerous precedent to set.

I think the u of m is going to be settling many lawsuits.

They are going to be settling a lot of lawsuits.

If you look at the tone of the EOAA report, it seems like it was written by her attorney. I think Section2 said, when I read the police report, I think they are innocent and when I read the report, I think they are guilty (implying it was like those court room dramas).

The problem is that the EOAA tries to sell itself as an impartial entity that is trying to determine fact. That report clearly was not written that way. I am not discrediting their findings, maybe something did happen. My issue is much more with the process. It's broken. It's corrupt.

 

[CentralGopher]

Agree with this.

And if it wasn't consensual, behavior was clearly criminal. So if the police determined they couldn't move forward I don't understand how a group who does not have a background doing criminal investigations has the ability to make that distinction. Clearly a flawed system.

The professionals say not a crime, but this group says crime so you're guilty and expelled. That's a dangerous precedent to set.

I think the u of m is going to be settling many lawsuits.

I have a problem with this as well. Eoaa board is not as qualified to do investigations as the pd and seems to have made quite a few guesses in the report. Not saying there isnt some guilt there but awful fishy to me. Lawsuits indeed may be coming.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Gangbang and out picking up hoes culture isnt country wide culture unless I am missing something.

"Picking up hoes" is just another way guys refer to picking up girls. You have a problem with the language they used to describe the exact same behavior guys have been doing since the beginning of time?

As far as group sex. . .yeah, it's probably a little more rare. It doesn't seem too rare with athletes or people who have women throwing themselves at them. However, it's probably not much different than your grandparents would have thought about your sexual activities and their grandparents thought of theirs.

If it's consensual, I just can't imagine what our collective opinions on the subject matter.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Completely agree with this. And on top of it, Kaler referred to the players as rapists on television today.

Yeah, that was unbelievable. He is not handling this very well, even if you agree with the suspensions and all of that. That statement really tarnishes their entire appeal process and it really opens up the U to litigation.

 

[kisarazu]

Gangbang and out picking up hoes culture isnt country wide culture unless I am missing something.

Yeah, I'm not going to google that.

 

[GophersInIowa]

This -- 100 times over. What is in that report is sickening and depraved. How dare these punks come in a sully the university I have spent 44 years rooting for. Not just what they physically did to this woman, but the total lack of respect for her as a human being, like she was nothing more than a plaything for them to abuse in any way thet wanted. Anybody who is still upset with Kaler, Coyle and the EOAA needs to re-examine their life.

Why can't we be upset at multiple people? I have enough in me to spread it around.

 

[Spoofin]

Completely agree with this. And on top of it, Kaler referred to the players as rapists on television today.

He did? That should help pull a few million more out of the U in court.


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[CentralGopher]

"Picking up hoes" is just another way guys refer to picking up girls. You have a problem with the language they used to describe the exact same behavior guys have been doing since the beginning of time?

As far as group sex. . .yeah, it's probably a little more rare. It doesn't seem too rare with athletes or people who have women throwing themselves at them. However, it's probably not much different than your grandparents would have thought about your sexual activities and their grandparents thought of theirs.

If it's consensual, I just can't imagine what our collective opinions on the subject matter.

It wasnt the language for me. It was the way they go about finding them basically to treat like a piece of meat for their use. What the players are accused of doing isnt something that is prevalent in society and needs to change. They got away with doing that stuff because they were not being made accountable by their peers. That needs to change.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

It wasnt the language for me. It was the way they go about finding them basically to treat like a piece of meat for their use. What the players are accused of doing isnt something that is prevalent in society and needs to change. They got away with doing that stuff because they were not being made accountable by their peers. That needs to change.

I think it's extremely common for young men to pick up women and treat them like pieces of meat. I am not saying that it's right but I don't think it's a new thing, I don't think it's a football player thing and I don't think it's a Minnesota thing. To change that part of our culture goes way beyond anything at the U.

The group stuff, I don't know, if it's consensual, I don't really see how that can be something we look to change.

People are into all sorts of things, if it's consensual, I don't see how we can have an opinion on the subject. If it's not consensual, we already have pretty strict laws in place to punish those activities.

I think it would be pretty strange (and unconstitutional) to have sexual preferences be part of the criteria to be admitted to the U.

 

[Gogogopher]

I only said that he looked silly because he wasn't accurately describing the burdens and was calling someone else silly.

I fully understand the process of a prosecutor bring charges. It is much more of an art than a science. For sexual assault cases, if you think a prosecutor only brings charges in situations where they already have enough evidence to convict beyond a reasonable doubt, I think you're missing a bit of the dance.

The reason why it is such a dance with sexual assault cases is that you need to get people talking. A very common practice would be to bring charges against all of the people involved and see if they are start talking. If a sexual assault occurred, lets see if the people who are covering up for their friends are willing to go to jail for that. (Note - - I am 100& in favor of the prosecution using these tactics).

To think that a prosecutor only brings charges in situations where they have (at that time) evidence to convict beyond a reasonable doubt is just simply not the way the world works. I don't think anyone who works in the world of criminal law would disagree with me.

Tons of evidence is acquired and tons of cases are built post-charges/post-arrest.

From the pioneer press:

“There is insufficient admissible evidence for prosecutors to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that either force was used, or that the victim was physically helpless as defined by law in a sexual encounter,” the county attorney’s office said Monday."

http://www.twincities.com/2016/10/03/suspended-gophers-not-charged-sexual-assault-investigation/

 

[citywok]

I think it's extremely common for young men to pick up women and treat them like pieces of meat. I am not saying that it's right but I don't think it's a new thing, I don't think it's a football player thing and I don't think it's a Minnesota thing. To change that part of our culture goes way beyond anything at the U.

The group stuff, I don't know, if it's consensual, I don't really see how that can be something we look to change.

People are into all sorts of things, if it's consensual, I don't see how we can have an opinion on the subject. If it's not consensual, we already have pretty strict laws in place to punish those activities.

I think it would be pretty strange (and unconstitutional) to have sexual preferences be part of the criteria to be admitted to the U.

"I am not saying that it's right, but eh, I certainly won't ever say, that it was wrong. It's been happening forever, so it wasn't un-right. Their allowance to behave like that should be defended and attempts to assign any kind of blame to the suspended students will be deflected to outside entities or perhaps society as a whole."

"The group stuff...... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "

"I choose to ignore history and evidence that sexual assault convictions are an uphill battle against a stacked deck, and it has an extreme outlier rate of failure to convict compared to nearly all other serious crimes."

As an aside, Bob, in one of my posts yesterday I also stated that this is something that is going on nationwide on campuses and is a big cultural issue- not just the U. But the biggest difference between me and you is that I want it to stop and everything I've stood for on here reflects that. You have dug yourself in as the loudest and most rigid talker on a message board and what you are saying shows that you don't care if it stops or not. This post that I quoted is absolutely diseased. You continually post a cloud of temporal and causal semantics, and I think if you ever clearly and directly stated what you really think about this issue and why, most readers here would shun you.

 

[kisarazu]

"I am not saying that it's right, but eh, I certainly won't ever say, that it was wrong. It's been happening forever, so it wasn't un-right. Their allowance to behave like that should be defended and attempts to assign any kind of blame to the suspended students will be deflected to outside entities or perhaps society as a whole."

"The group stuff...... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ "

"I choose to ignore history and evidence that sexual assault convictions are an uphill battle against a stacked deck, and it has an extreme outlier rate of failure to convict compared to nearly all other serious crimes."

As an aside, Bob, in one of my posts yesterday I also stated that this is something that is going on nationwide on campuses and is a big cultural issue- not just the U. But the biggest difference between me and you is that I want it to stop and everything I've stood for on here reflects that. You have dug yourself in as the loudest and most rigid talker on a message board and what you are saying shows that you don't care if it stops or not. This post that I quoted is absolutely diseased. You continually post a cloud of temporal and causal semantics, and I think if you ever clearly and directly stated what you really think about this issue and why, most readers here would shun you.

(1) Bob is against breaking the law.
(2) Bob believes in innocent until proven guilty.
(3) Bob stands up for consensual sex between adults.
(4) Bob says what he says because we're free to be law-abiding ***holes in the Unites States.

 

[minny01]

(1) Bob is against breaking the law.
(2) Bob believes in innocent until proven guilty.
(3) Bob stands up for consensual sex between adults.
(4) Bob says what he says because we're free to be law-abiding ***holes in the Unites States.

I completely agree with this and let me add, that Bob is an attorney that knows and understands the subject matter.

 

[TruthSeeker]

(1) Bob is against breaking the law.
(2) Bob believes in innocent until proven guilty.
(3) Bob stands up for consensual sex between adults.
(4) Bob says what he says because we're free to be law-abiding ***holes in the Unites States.

Exactly correct. That's what everyone's position should be. If you disagree with any of that, then you have autocratic tendencies and are not for freedom and liberty.

The nature of the sex does not matter. However, even though I disagree with the group sex that happened the people who engaged in it should not be punished at all, unless it wasn't consensual. There are many people here who want to criminalize sexual activity that they find distasteful. Those people are truly a danger to this country.

 

[GopherinPhilly]

There are many people here who want to criminalize sexual activity that they find distasteful. Those people are truly a danger to this country.

There was a time not too long ago that a black man caught having sex with a white woman would get hanged from a tree. It was illegal for them to marry.

We speak of freedom and rail against shariah law but our views on sex in this country are only slightly more progressive than theirs.

The worst part of this whole thing is that for the players to fully defend themselves this will get uglier. And Coyle/Kaler have put themselves in a terrible position by reinstating the 4 primary accused during the season...they read the police report and interviewed the young men and knew it included a 17 year old recruit, included 4 players having sex with the accuser in the span of 90 minutes, they knew this was going to be viewed as disgusting by even the more open minded people and as completely heinous by the more conservative folks.

In the end, this is what Coyle and Kaler will have to answer for IMO and it is the thing that will bring them both down. The players were understandable confused and the Admin sent mixed messages and then no messages and lied about Claeys to the media/team and while right now they may look righteous for standing tall on the issue of sexual assault when the Regents get done with them and shock of the acts are replaced with calm objective analysis, I don't see them surviving.

 

[minny01]

Exactly correct. That's what everyone's position should be. If you disagree with any of that, then you have autocratic tendencies and are not for freedom and liberty.

The nature of the sex does not matter. However, even though I disagree with the group sex that happened the people who engaged in it should not be punished at all, unless it wasn't consensual. There are many people here who want to criminalize sexual activity that they find distasteful. Those people are truly a danger to this country.

Truth - for how often that I can disagree with you about sporting event happenings, I couldn't agree with you more about your statement here. People need to understand this aspect of the topic.

 

[UpnorthGo4]

Exactly correct. That's what everyone's position should be. If you disagree with any of that, then you have autocratic tendencies and are not for freedom and liberty.

The nature of the sex does not matter. However, even though I disagree with the group sex that happened the people who engaged in it should not be punished at all, unless it wasn't consensual. There are many people here who want to criminalize sexual activity that they find distasteful. Those people are truly a danger to this country.

Tell the truth, Truthseeker. Name even one poster that has said he wants to criminalize sexual activity he finds distasteful.

 

[citywok]

(1) Bob is against breaking the law.
(2) Bob believes in innocent until proven guilty.
(3) Bob stands up for consensual sex between adults.
(4) Bob says what he says because we're free to be law-abiding ***holes in the Unites States.

Me too
Me too
Me too
Me too

Why always law-talking?

I mostly just want Bob and those like him to admit that:
-a large swath of this is repulsive behavior that he has a problem with
-he believes at least some of what the victim has to say in the EOAA report
-aside from sexual behavior, University suspension or worse is a very possible punishment for an entire group of students that tried to cover up and obstruct an official University investigation in that type of systematic fashion
-perhaps more than 5 scholarships should get pulled, depending on how this shakes out, and that has nothing to do with the morals of group sex or a previous police investigation to determine applicable criminal charges- those are separate issues.

That isn't exactly a fire and brimstone list of autocratic takes but I don't think he can agree with those at this point.
Beyond that in my book he can debate a myriad of leadership, legal, and procedural issues relating to this, I would likely agree with a fair amount of what he has to say.

 

[Robemcdo]

There was a time not too long ago that a black man caught having sex with a white woman would get hanged from a tree. It was illegal for them to marry.

.

This is the culture of sexual assault. Blacks accused and no one even considers for a second that the female is lying .

Just look at the players and their response . They know the truth .


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[DoubleAlum]

Exactly correct. That's what everyone's position should be. If you disagree with any of that, then you have autocratic tendencies and are not for freedom and liberty.

The nature of the sex does not matter. However, even though I disagree with the group sex that happened the people who engaged in it should not be punished at all, unless it wasn't consensual. There are many people here who want to criminalize sexual activity that they find distasteful. Those people are truly a danger to this country.

If I understand this correctly, all that needs to exist to punish these men is 1. Lying and 2. Obstructing the investigation by destroying evidence/deleting important information. Even if the sex was concensual, they can be punished and so could the accuser.

 

[DoubleAlum]

Exactly correct. That's what everyone's position should be. If you disagree with any of that, then you have autocratic tendencies and are not for freedom and liberty.

The nature of the sex does not matter. However, even though I disagree with the group sex that happened the people who engaged in it should not be punished at all, unless it wasn't consensual. There are many people here who want to criminalize sexual activity that they find distasteful. Those people are truly a danger to this country.

By the way, if you're truly a "Truth Seeker", you would be extremely pissed that these guys probably lied and destroyed evidence at a minimum. I think you probably want the truth only when it agrees with your conclusions. You seem pretty strident and angry with anyone and anything that contradicts you.

 

[minny01]

If I understand this correctly, all that needs to exist to punish these men is 1. Lying and 2. Obstructing the investigation by destroying evidence/deleting important information. Even if the sex was concensual, they can be punished and so could the accuser.

I believe that you are correct. If the EOAA, in their opinion, believes that you are lying or obstructing the investigation, based upon what they believe to have occurred, you can be punished.

 

[Maximus]

This is the culture of sexual assault. Blacks accused and no one even considers for a second that the female is lying .

Just look at the players and their response . They know the truth .

Which is why they dropped their boycott without getting any of their demands met. Kudos.

 

[goldengophers]

Which is why they dropped their boycott without getting any of their demands met. Kudos.

Was going to say the same thing. Report leaks, meeting with Kaler and the result is a boycott backpedal.