Accused ex-Gophers do documentary on the alleged gang rape, get ripped for smirking

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CoMn said:
Had plenty of sex, never been accused of rape. You?
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But if you were, we could presume you were guilty? Because accusations are always true?
 

CoMn said:
Had plenty of sex, never been accused of rape. You?
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Nope, but I'd sure just assume you were guilty no matter what since that's what you are doing here.

Edit: D@mmit word beat me to it..
 

CoMn said:
No, I don't like it when students don't represent the university well. It hurts more than the football team. It hurts the entire university.
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So kick out every single student who has sex while in college? I saw some pretty freaky stuff in the dorms and in dinkytown when I was there. I don't think that would be a good business plan for the U.
 

CoMn said:
Had plenty of sex, never been accused of rape. You?
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Anyone that deals extensively with the general public will eventually be accused of various things they didn’t actually do. It’s commonplace.

You mentioned once IIRC you were close to someone that was sexually assaulted. Well, I’ve been on the flip side where a friend was falsely accused. It’s naive to think people are always telling the truth. Sometimes they may even believe they are telling the truth but have faulty recall because of drugs or alcohol or excessive time has passed.
 

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Anyone choosing to tell people that they have never been accused of rape ... that's kinda creepy all by itself.

Let alone asking other people if they have been accused of rape...
 


We don't know for sure what happened that night. But the reality of false accusations is indeed frightening. As wise old Ben Franklin wrote, "That it is better that 100 guilty persons should escape than that one innocent person should suffer, is a maxim that has been long and generally approved."
 

At the end of the day, it is extremely important for the U (and any school) to be able to expel any student who violates a code of conduct, using the minimum burden of proof (much lower than criminal, and lower than civil).

So for that reason, I want them to lose the lawsuit.
 

Gophers_4life said:
At the end of the day, it is extremely important for the U (and any school) to be able to expel any student who violates a code of conduct, using the minimum burden of proof (much lower than criminal, and lower than civil).

So for that reason, I want them to lose the lawsuit.
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Yes it is so important that the U should be able to ruin any students life at any moment for no reason at all. :rolleyes:
 

bottlebass said:
Yes it is so important that the U should be able to ruin any students life at any moment for no reason at all. :rolleyes:
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Not at all ruin. They can do anything they want with their lives after that point, including enrollment at a different school. They're free. Attending the U is not a right.
 



Gophers_4life said:
Not at all ruin. They can do anything they want with their lives after that point, including enrollment at a different school. They're free. Attending the U is not a right.
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lmao. no they can't when you plaster it all over media headlines everywhere. sure in a perfect world where this is handled behind closed doors and *gasp* we actually don't allow the media to dictate guilt or innocence prior to a trial maybe this would work. but that's just not dealing in reality
 

upnorthkid said:
lmao. no they can't when you plaster it all over media headlines everywhere. sure in a perfect world where this is handled behind closed doors and *gasp* we actually don't allow the media to dictate guilt or innocence prior to a trial maybe this would work. but that's just not dealing in reality
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It’s the U’s fault that the media blasted this, and that confidential reports were stolen and given to the media?

Nope. Sue the media for your 45M.

People only cared because it was football players. My point goes well beyond that, right down to the average frat brother Joe McRapeyeyes. The U absolutely must retain the ability to expel Joe, despite no evidence which meets the criminal or civil burdens.
 

Urbandale said:
We don't know for sure what happened that night. But the reality of false accusations is indeed frightening. As wise old Ben Franklin wrote, "That it is better that 100 guilty persons should escape than that one innocent person should suffer, is a maxim that has been long and generally approved."
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We know a lot about what happened that night because most of the evidence was provided by multiple members of the Gopher football team who were there, or other people in possession of reliable evidence including texts the players sent them.

1. Tracy Claeys put one of his "trustworthy" upperclass football players in charge of showing a high school football recruit from another state around campus. At some point he procured alcohol for the recruit and arranged a sexual encounter for the two of them with a U of M coed who had consumed 7 or 8 vodka drinks before leaving her apartment and finding her way to the off campus apartment building near Dinkytown where she met them.

2. The Gopher football player, the Gopher recruit, and the Gopher coed went up to an apartment on one of the upper floors of the building that was being rented by 2 or 3 other Gopher players where they proceeded to have sex in one of the bedrooms. While this was happening texts started going out to other members of the Gopher football team inviting them to come and participate in all the fun.

3. There is strong evidence that more than ten football players were in the apartment that night. Some participated in the sexual activity, some watched it and cheered it on, and others took video of the activity and texted it to their friends (all this activity were violations of the Student Code of Conduct). And there were several players who declined to participate in any way because they could see the girl was becoming increasingly more distressed about what was happening. They heard her say more than once that she hated the Gopher players who were in the bedroom with her.

4. After the girl reported what happened to the police they did an investigation it and determined there wasn't enough evidence to charge any of the players with a crime.

5. The girl also reported what happened to the EOAA which did an investigation and filed an 80-page report which concluded there was sufficient evidence to believe the U's Student Code of Conduct was violated numerous times that night by at least 10 Gopher players. Among the violations were sexual assault, sexual harassment, lying to EOAA investigators, and participating in a conspiracy to obstruct the EOAA investigation.

6. Based on the EOAA report and other evidence provided by the police, the U's administration initiated the Student Disciplinary Process against the ten Gopher players which provided them with notice of the accusations, a hearing where they could be represented by an attorney, and an opportunity to appeal any adverse ruling against them.

7. We all know what has happened since the hearings.
 
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Gophers_4life said:
It’s the U’s fault that the media blasted this, and that confidential reports were stolen and given to the media?

Nope. Sue the media for your 45M.

People only cared because it was football players. My point goes well beyond that, right down to the average frat brother Joe McRapeyeyes. The U absolutely must retain the ability to expel Joe, despite no evidence which meets the criminal or civil burdens.
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Did I say it was? Nope. You can continue to try live in a world where you think that that is remotely possible, but it doesn't exist and thus your idea has no merit in a pragmatic approach. If you read what I said, sure it would work great if you could do that and I understand there is a student code of conduct, but these things do not stay within University walls (and if there's a rape allegation, it shouldn't just stay within University walls) and so you can't make a solution where that is required
 



Gophers_4life said:
Not at all ruin. They can do anything they want with their lives after that point, including enrollment at a different school. They're free. Attending the U is not a right.
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You either don't know how the real world works or you are being purposely naive.
 

Cruze said:
6. Based on the EOAA report and other evidence provided by the police, the U's administration initiated the Student Disciplinary Process against the ten Gopher players which provided them with notice of the accusations, a hearing where they could be represented by an attorney, and an opportunity to appeal any adverse ruling against them.
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And mind you these reports and hearings are supposed to be and stay confidential.

Stolen reports, media blasting, and then the players themselves taking their case to the court of public opinion, is not the fault of the U. The U owes these players 0.00 dollars of compensation.
 


Cruze said:
We know a lot about what happened that night because most of the evidence was provided by multiple members of the Gopher football team who were there, or other people in possession of reliable evidence including texts the players sent them.

1. Tracy Claeys put one of his "trustworthy" upperclass football players in charge of showing a high school football recruit from another state around campus. At some point he procured alcohol for the recruit and arranged a sexual encounter for the two of them with a U of M coed who had consumed 7 or 8 vodka drinks before leaving her apartment and finding her way to the off campus apartment building near Dinkytown where she met them.

2. The Gopher football player, the Gopher recruit, and the Gopher coed went up to an apartment on one of the upper floors of the building that was being rented by 2 or 3 other Gopher players where they proceeded to have sex in one of the bedrooms. While this was happening texts started going out to other members of the Gopher football team inviting them to come and participate in all the fun.

3. There is strong evidence that more than ten football players were in the apartment that night. Some participated in the sexual activity, some watched it and cheered it on, and others took video of the activity and texted it to their friends (all this activity were violations of the Student Code of Conduct). And there were several players who declined to participate in any way because they could see the girl was becoming increasingly more distressed about what was happening. They heard her say more than once that she hated the Gopher players who were in the bedroom with her.

4. After the girl reported what happened to the police they did an investigation it and determined there wasn't enough evidence to charge any of the players with a crime.

5. The girl also reported what happened to the EOAA which did an investigation and filed an 80-page report which concluded there was sufficient evidence to believe the U's Student Code of Conduct was violated numerous times that night by at least 10 Gopher players. Among the violations were sexual assault, sexual harassment, lying to EOAA investigators, and participating in a conspiracy to obstruct the EOAA investigation.

6. Based on the EOAA report and other evidence provided by the police, the U's administration initiated the Student Disciplinary Process against the ten Gopher players which provided them with notice of the accusations, a hearing where they could be represented by an attorney, and an opportunity to appeal any adverse ruling against them.

7. We all know what has happened since the hearings.
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I think you missed his entire point that any of the people giving statements could by lying (due to motives) or mis-remembering (unintentionally or otherwise) which makes us unable to "know" what happened truthfully because the memory of human beings is faulty at best
 


upnorthkid said:
I think you missed his entire point that any of the people giving statements could by lying (due to motives) or mis-remembering (unintentionally or otherwise) which makes us unable to "know" what happened truthfully because the memory of human beings is faulty at best
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Precisely why the evidence did not meet the criminal burden of proof.

The EOAA decision and the U discipline process do not need to meet that burden. Which is correct.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Maybe. But that won't win a court case.



Why on earth shouldn't EOAA reports and hearings stay confidential?? For your entertainment? Good grief.
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In what world is a rape allegation (aka a thing you should tell the police because that'a a criminal offense) a thing just the EOAA handles??? The case was not just an EOAA case. Did you miss the whole thing where the police were involved?
 

upnorthkid said:
In what world is a rape allegation (aka a thing you should tell the police because that'a a criminal offense) a thing just the EOAA handles???
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She did tell the police. That was square one. Please pay attention.

I never said anything of the sort that the police should not be involved.

The EOAA reports and the dicipline process happened *after* the police investigation, which is correct. Not the other way around, which neither me nor anyone else is advocating, nor advocating that the EOAA be allowed to withhold info from the police.
 

Gophers_4life said:
She did tell the police. That was square one. Please pay attention.

I never said anything of the sort that the police should not be involved.

The EOAA reports and the dicipline process happened *after* the police investigation, which is correct. Not the other way around, which neither me nor anyone else is advocating, nor advocating that the EOAA be allowed to withhold info from the police.
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nvm. not continuing down this rabbit hole, I remember far too well from last time this came up. We have differing opinions. I'll leave it at that.
 
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bottlebass said:
It does owe compensation if they are innocent.
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Do you remember how OJ won the criminal case and then lost the civil trial? I think all of this is just a way to get the U to settle. No way the U loses in court.
 

gophmeister said:
Do you remember how OJ won the criminal case and then lost the civil trial? I think all of this is just a way to get the U to settle. No way the U loses in court.
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If they do settle then are they guilty? I don't see the U settling as it would be admitting there is an error in their precious kangaroo court process.
 

upnorthkid said:
nvm. not continuing down this rabbit hole, I remember far too well from last time this came up. We have differing opinions. I'll leave it at that.
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Yes, you appear to be among the simpletons who want to strip away the ability of a school to expel a student if no crime has been committed.
 


Gophers_4life said:
Yes, you appear to be among the simpletons who want to strip away the ability of a school to expel a student if no crime has been committed.
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Oh a simpleton! Good one. But you have zero understanding. I don't want a school to be able to ruin a persons life for having consensual sex. Or if they are, then maybe they should expel every single student that has consensual sex? Or maybe it is discrimination in this case and the students suing are due some money.
 

CoMn said:
Had plenty of sex, never been accused of rape. You?
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Ah, but that isn't what you said. Of course you don't see how idiotic and asinine your entire argument is.
 

Gophers_4life said:
They shouldn’t owe any of these players a dime, hence why they should lose the court case and I’m rooting for them to lose.
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What kind of sick person roots for innocent people to be punished and have their lives ruined?
 

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