Accused ex-Gophers do documentary on the alleged gang rape, get ripped for smirking

[bottlebass]

I have no problem with folks doing whatever the heck they want to consensually. I have a problem with football players training someone's daughter without consent. I have a problem with the police department contacting the athletic department BEFORE gathering evidence, giving them time to lawyer up the players and get them to get their stories straight...all getting the same lawyer. I have problem with the police department not going immediately to the scene to collect evidence but letting days pass so all can be destroyed. To me campus police protect the university more than they protect alleged victims. This woman thought she was raped and still thinks she was raped. Whatever people do with consent if fine but she didn't remember giving consent, vaguely remembers being held down but even the police report says her memory was spotty. When one is extremely drunk one can't give consent. If she had wanted to do this she wouldn't gone to the police. She gains nothing by doing that. 23% of women are sexually assaulted during college. Being assaulted is a major reason women drop out of college. It affects their GPA. So not taking rape allegations seriously is a problem. That guys are training women even consensually on campus is a problem if it becomes news because it won't sit will with the donor class...just FYI...perhaps you don't spend time with donors to know that? Once again these morons are making a dark part of the University international news. If you are okay with that...then you have no idea how public university education funding works.

You sound like you just want to lynch them. Don't care about facts, evidence or due process. They were guilty to you no matter what. I'm not condoning whatever they did, like I said it's not my cup of tea, but your guilty until proven innocent mindset is really F'd up.

 

[everybody knows my name]

What parts?

If you can't read the available material and identify the gross parts, then I'm not going to have a conversation with you about it.

... and in today's legalistic world, you get hit with a lawsuit for $42M to cover the players loss of future wages as you prevented them from having an NFL career.

None of my athletes are future NFL players. They aren't even football players. And they're on my team because I allow them to be. We have a standard of conduct that all my guys have to agree to in order to participate, and grossly immoral behavior is part of the equation.

You would kick people off of your team based on the kind of consensual sexual activities they partake in?

It's one thing if it's non-consensual, obviously, that's horrendous and everyone agrees with you. However, you seem to be implying that you'd kick them off your team even if this was consensual. If that's the case, that's incredibly creepy.

Incredibly creepy would be if I was trying to find out what goes on in their bedrooms. But if they're accused of rape, and despite not being charged they admit to grossly immoral behavior, I absolutely would kick them off my team.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the international community isn't spending two seconds worrying about this.

You might be the only person here who didn't notice that the link in the original post is to a British tabloid. Yes, this is an international embarrassment to the U of M.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Apparently this needs to be said again:

If the players are telling the truth, the woman was a willing participant.

I wasn't there. I don't know what happened.

but - unless you were there and you know 1st-hand what happened, there is a possibility that the players are telling the truth. there is also a possibility that the players are lying. that's why these cases are so hard to prove in court.

Now, in the court of public opinion, group sex seems icky to a lot of people, whether it was consensual or not. But I don't presume to judge other people's lifestyles or behavior. If someone feels they are qualified or justified to pass judgement on other people, that's your thing.

 

[Spoofin]

Becoming obvious why CoMn got banned. Some people can be dangerous to society with their beliefs too.


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[Bob_Loblaw]

Incredibly creepy would be if I was trying to find out what goes on in their bedrooms. But if they're accused of rape, and despite not being charged they admit to grossly immoral behavior, I absolutely would kick them off my team.


You might be the only person here who didn't notice that the link in the original post is to a British tabloid. Yes, this is an international embarrassment to the U of M.

(1) The behavior that they admitted to is "what goes on in their bedroom";
(2) See your first sentence. . . you're right, it's incredibly creepy to kick people off a team for what they do in their bedroom;
(3) If it was not consensual, then of course they should be locked up. But you seem to imply that there is something "grossly immoral" about the behavior, even if consensual, if so, please see your first sentence and (2), it's creepy for you to have an opinions on the consensual sexual moralities of grown men;
(4) Are you just implying they are guilty?
(5) Being mocked in a British tabloid is a sign you are on the right track.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I have no problem with folks doing whatever the heck they want to consensually. I have a problem with football players training someone's daughter without consent. I have a problem with the police department contacting the athletic department BEFORE gathering evidence, giving them time to lawyer up the players and get them to get their stories straight...all getting the same lawyer. I have problem with the police department not going immediately to the scene to collect evidence but letting days pass so all can be destroyed. To me campus police protect the university more than they protect alleged victims. This woman thought she was raped and still thinks she was raped. Whatever people do with consent if fine but she didn't remember giving consent, vaguely remembers being held down but even the police report says her memory was spotty. When one is extremely drunk one can't give consent. If she had wanted to do this she wouldn't gone to the police. She gains nothing by doing that. 23% of women are sexually assaulted during college. Being assaulted is a major reason women drop out of college. It affects their GPA. So not taking rape allegations seriously is a problem. That guys are training women even consensually on campus is a problem if it becomes news because it won't sit will with the donor class...just FYI...perhaps you don't spend time with donors to know that? Once again these morons are making a dark part of the University international news. If you are okay with that...then you have no idea how public university education funding works.

Hot take!

That is how everyone thinks of the situation. It's just that some of us don't have the hubris to assume we know exactly what happened. It's clear you do.

 

[Urbandale]

You might be the only person here who didn't notice that the link in the original post is to a British tabloid. Yes, this is an international embarrassment to the U of M.

Oh, come off it. Stop pretending that a link from the UK equals huge international embarrassment and scandal. That would be a gross miscalculation of what people around the world think is important.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

There are numerous motives for false accusations ranging from embarrassment to revenge to attention to a misunderstanding of the legal definition of sexual assault vs the university definition.

The latest example. Lord only knows what this girl was thinking.



https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/05/08/utah-man-dies-attack/

Utah man dies from attack after he was accused of sex assault — but police say the assault did not occur

 

[everybody knows my name]

Oh, come off it. Stop pretending that a link from the UK equals huge international embarrassment and scandal. That would be a gross miscalculation of what people around the world think is important.

You can pretend to think that people aren't influenced by news they encounter on the web, I won't tell you not to. All I did is point out that it's bad news, it paints a bad picture of the U, and it's international.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

If you can't read the available material and identify the gross parts, then I'm not going to have a conversation with you about it.



None of my athletes are future NFL players. They aren't even football players. And they're on my team because I allow them to be. We have a standard of conduct that all my guys have to agree to in order to participate, and grossly immoral behavior is part of the equation.



Incredibly creepy would be if I was trying to find out what goes on in their bedrooms. But if they're accused of rape, and despite not being charged they admit to grossly immoral behavior, I absolutely would kick them off my team.



You might be the only person here who didn't notice that the link in the original post is to a British tabloid. Yes, this is an international embarrassment to the U of M.

Honestly, I find your snap judgments grossly immoral and I would never allow my kids to be influenced by someone like you. What proof do you have they raped the accuser?

 

[everybody knows my name]

(1) The behavior that they admitted to is "what goes on in their bedroom";
(2) See your first sentence. . . you're right, it's incredibly creepy to kick people off a team for what they do in their bedroom;
(3) If it was not consensual, then of course they should be locked up. But you seem to imply that there is something "grossly immoral" about the behavior, even if consensual, if so, please see your first sentence and (2), it's creepy for you to have an opinions on the consensual sexual moralities of grown men;
(4) Are you just implying they are guilty?
(5) Being mocked in a British tabloid is a sign you are on the right track.

(1) I don't think you're dense, but I do think you're not reading carefully. I wrote, "creepy would be if I was trying to find out what goes on in their bedrooms." Knowing because it's in my face, front page news, I'm not trying to find out anything private about them.

(2) Whether a particular behavior is immoral is a separate issue from whether it's legal. This concept is foreign to some people, because morality is out of style. But most Americans still make a distinction. Additionally, what these young men did, criminal or not, brought disrepute to the University and their teammates.

(3) It isn't creepy for me to have high moral standards and to impart them to those I teach.

(4) Guilty of what? I don't think I implied anything, I thought I made myself pretty clear.

(5) Most people who read that article don't know anything about the University of Minnesota except what they saw and read about Carlton Djam & Co. Snobbery is no protection against bad publicity.

 

[highwayman]

Nm.

 

[CoMn]

You sound like you just want to lynch them. Don't care about facts, evidence or due process. They were guilty to you no matter what. I'm not condoning whatever they did, like I said it's not my cup of tea, but your guilty until proven innocent mindset is really F'd up.

No, I don't like it when students don't represent the university well. It hurts more than the football team. It hurts the entire university.

 

[CoMn]

Hot take!

That is how everyone thinks of the situation. It's just that some of us don't have the hubris to assume we know exactly what happened. It's clear you do.

The guys admitted quite a bit....none of which makes them good representatives to the university. Here's an idea...don't have sex with someone who might accuse you of rape.

 

[Spoofin]

(1) I don't think you're dense, but I do think you're not reading carefully. I wrote, "creepy would be if I was trying to find out what goes on in their bedrooms." Knowing because it's in my face, front page news, I'm not trying to find out anything private about them.

(2) Whether a particular behavior is immoral is a separate issue from whether it's legal. This concept is foreign to some people, because morality is out of style. But most Americans still make a distinction. Additionally, what these young men did, criminal or not, brought disrepute to the University and their teammates.

(3) It isn't creepy for me to have high moral standards and to impart them to those I teach.

(4) Guilty of what? I don't think I implied anything, I thought I made myself pretty clear.

(5) Most people who read that article don't know anything about the University of Minnesota except what they saw and read about Carlton Djam & Co. Snobbery is no protection against bad publicity.

So you decide what is immoral? You are a bigger part of the problem than the solution.


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[dpodoll68]

The guys admitted quite a bit....none of which makes them good representatives to the university. Here's an idea...don't have sex with someone who might accuse you of rape.

Literally anyone can accuse anyone else of rape. So your idea is just to not have sex? Brilliant!

 

[Word]

Literally anyone can accuse anyone else of rape. So your idea is just to not have sex? Brilliant!

Not to mention they could accuse someone of rape even if they didn't have sex.

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[Tucker32]

I have no problem with folks doing whatever the heck they want to consensually. I have a problem with football players training someone's daughter without consent. I have a problem with the police department contacting the athletic department BEFORE gathering evidence, giving them time to lawyer up the players and get them to get their stories straight...all getting the same lawyer. I have problem with the police department not going immediately to the scene to collect evidence but letting days pass so all can be destroyed. To me campus police protect the university more than they protect alleged victims. This woman thought she was raped and still thinks she was raped. Whatever people do with consent if fine but she didn't remember giving consent, vaguely remembers being held down but even the police report says her memory was spotty. When one is extremely drunk one can't give consent. If she had wanted to do this she wouldn't gone to the police. She gains nothing by doing that. 23% of women are sexually assaulted during college. Being assaulted is a major reason women drop out of college. It affects their GPA. So not taking rape allegations seriously is a problem. That guys are training women even consensually on campus is a problem if it becomes news because it won't sit will with the donor class...just FYI...perhaps you don't spend time with donors to know that? Once again these morons are making a dark part of the University international news. If you are okay with that...then you have no idea how public university education funding works.

You also believe in guilty unless proven innocent. Sad.


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[MrC]

So you decide what is immoral? You are a bigger part of the problem than the solution.

From an interesting article on diffen.com on the difference between ethics and morality:

“Ethics and morals relate to “right” and “wrong” conduct. While they are sometimes used interchangeably, they are different: ethics refer to rules provided by an external source, e.g., codes of conduct in workplaces or principles in religions. Morals refer to an individual’s own principles regarding right and wrong.”

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Ethics_vs_Morals

So, if you accept this distinction, EKMN and all the rest of us get to decide for ourselves what we think is moral or immoral. And anyone gets to disagree, too.

 

[Spoofin]

So, if you accept this distinction, EKMN and all the rest of us get to decide for ourselves what we think is moral or immoral. And anyone gets to disagree, too.

OK. In the same light, that would make EKMN kicking kids off his team for being “immoral” more absurd. Maybe he thinks having thoughts of girls is immoral - kick that kid off the team. The very idea that he thinks it is OK to boot kids from his team because they don’t agree with his personal beliefs speaks volumes on just how important he feels he is. I find that immoral.


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[gopherdudepart2]

Yuck, this abomination is back again.

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[Spoofin]

None of my athletes are future NFL players. They aren't even football players. And they're on my team because I allow them to be. <b>We have a standard of conduct that all my guys have to agree to in order to participate, and grossly immoral behavior is part of the equation.</b>

Obviously group sex is included under the immoral clause that you require your players to follow. I’m curious if they are allowed to have any premarital sex, think abortion is OK, or practice different religions? All things many would feel are immoral. Does this agreement also limit political views?


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[MNVCGUY]

Apparently this needs to be said again:

If the players are telling the truth, the woman was a willing participant.

I wasn't there. I don't know what happened.

but - unless you were there and you know 1st-hand what happened, there is a possibility that the players are telling the truth. there is also a possibility that the players are lying. that's why these cases are so hard to prove in court.

Now, in the court of public opinion, group sex seems icky to a lot of people, whether it was consensual or not. But I don't presume to judge other people's lifestyles or behavior. If someone feels they are qualified or justified to pass judgement on other people, that's your thing.

Well said, especially the part in bold. Obviously there is no excuse for any sort of non-consentual behavior but all we can do is trust in the system and hope that the people doing the investigating got it right. Because as you said, we don't have any way of knowing exactly went on that night.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Yuck, this abomination is back again.

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Yeah, always fun when things like this pop up again and we get to rehash and reargue all the same details again.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Yeah, always fun when things like this pop up again and we get to rehash and reargue all the same details again.

THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL EVERYONE AGREES WITH ME!

 

[everybody knows my name]

OK. In the same light, that would make EKMN kicking kids off his team for being “immoral” more absurd. Maybe he thinks having thoughts of girls is immoral - kick that kid off the team. The very idea that he thinks it is OK to boot kids from his team because they don’t agree with his personal beliefs speaks volumes on just how important he feels he is. I find that immoral.
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You're taking your argument to a ridiculous extreme. One coach requires all his athletes to wear a suit and tie on game days, and that's okay. Another coach requires all his players to say "yes sir" and "no sir," and that's okay. But if a coach kicks an athlete off his team for publicly admitting that he participated in group sex with an intoxicated fellow student and an underage recruit, that makes the coach absurd and immoral. Gotcha.

Obviously group sex is included under the immoral clause that you require your players to follow. I’m curious if they are allowed to have any premarital sex, think abortion is OK, or practice different religions? All things many would feel are immoral. Does this agreement also limit political views?
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You just exceeded my daily moron quota.

 

[Spoofin]

You're taking your argument to a ridiculous extreme. One coach requires all his athletes to wear a suit and tie on game days, and that's okay. Another coach requires all his players to say "yes sir" and "no sir," and that's okay. But if a coach kicks an athlete off his team for publicly admitting that he participated in group sex with an intoxicated fellow student and an underage recruit, that makes the coach absurd and immoral. Gotcha.



You just exceeded my daily moron quota.

Where do you draw the line? Where does “extreme” start. Was it group sex, the fact they were intoxicated, or the recruit that tipped the scales? Any? All? What if only 2 of those existed? Which 2 matter?

Sounds to me that your players are not only required to share your moral beliefs, but also evaluated on your subjective ranking on what is ‘extreme’ or not. I’m looking for clarification on the immoral clause you mentioned your players sign in their code of conduct.


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[Pompous Elitist]

Saw new posts and clicked hoping/expecting to perhaps find some groundbreaking new evidence 100% of accusations are true and instead found people complaining about the existence of a thread that was clearly labeled as related to the Gopher 10 episode. Or, 10-20 per the article. Surely there are some that are totally unfamiliar with the details of this case and the university process. It’s helpful to revisit the topic considering the times we live in.

 

[CoMn]

Literally anyone can accuse anyone else of rape. So your idea is just to not have sex? Brilliant!

Had plenty of sex, never been accused of rape. You?

 

[CoMn]

OK. In the same light, that would make EKMN kicking kids off his team for being “immoral” more absurd. Maybe he thinks having thoughts of girls is immoral - kick that kid off the team. The very idea that he thinks it is OK to boot kids from his team because they don’t agree with his personal beliefs speaks volumes on just how important he feels he is. I find that immoral.


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You can kick kids off a team for being chronically late...why is not getting convicted of something the only standard?