6 years with Coach Fleck

[Wooty_Woot]

Covid year doesn't count.

2017 and 2018 were ramping up.


Fleck's tenure is really 2019, 2021, and 2022.

Lot of good.

But also three years where the (outright) West title was there for the taking, with pretty good schedules, and didn't get it done.


There is still another gear to hit. I do think Fleck can get there. TCU certainly gives people a lot of hope.

Seriously?? lol..lol..lol..lol
"Fleck's tenure is really 2019, 2021, and 2022."

Is that like Year 0, Year 0 +1 and Year 0 +2?? lol Was he paid before his tenure started??

 

[Gophers_4life]

It's really quite simple.

Hypothetically, if Coyle were assessing Fleck and whether to give him a raise, hold steady, or let him go, you'd only do that assessment based on 2019, 2021, and 2022.

That's the truth of it.


The only relevant thing you can bring up about 2020 is the crony hiring of Sanford. That bled over into 2021, where I wish Fleck would've given him the Robb Smith treatment. That's about it.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Also, don't get me wrong. A good amount of football coach hiring is cronyism. All around.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Which statues are you talking about?

I get the feeling trying to make sense of Wooty Woot is going to be a lot like looking for sense in ramblings of Spaulding. Took me a long time to put Spaulding on ignore.....Wooty Woot is looking like he is going to get there much faster.

 

[Panthadad2]

Troll is hungry this morning.

 

[MaxyJR1]

I love spinning stats.

Just realized this. If you exclude the COVID year and Year 1 at both Western Michigan and MN his record is.

In these 7 seasons, (3 at WMU and 4 at MN)
65-27 overall (.792%)
41-19 in conference games (.683%)
Bowl all 7 years. 5-2 in bowls
3 Division Titles (including ties)
1 Conference Championship
1 BCS/NY6 Bowl

 

[short ornery norwegian]

something tells me that if Fleck coaches at MN for 25 years, we will still be having this type of argument/discussion in 2042. (well, I would be 86 by then, so I may or may not be here.....)

but IMHO it all gets back to one sticking point: what is a reasonable expectation for Gopher FB?

when Fleck was hired, a lot of people, including the AD, made it clear that - in their opinion - Fleck was brought into MN to do better than Mason, Kill or Claeys.

and I will stipulate that Fleck has done a little better. But he has not done a lot better. Fleck has had one really good season. Outside of 2019, his best years are comparable to the best years for Mason, Kill and Claeys.

So - how good is good enough? how much capital does one 11-win season provide?

that all depends on what happens over the next few years.

if we are back here in 4 or 5 years, and 2019 is still the only season with double-digit wins, how much does that change perceptions?

on the other hand, if we're back here in 4 or 5 years, and the Gophers have played in a Conference Championship game, or qualified for the CFP Playoffs, that is a very different discussion.

in 1959, fans hung Murray Warmath in effigy. the Gophers played in the Rose Bowl the next two seasons. perceptions can change.

 

[btowngopher]

The narrative changed from what has been posted. Fleck would upgrade the recruiting and ranking to ranking doesn't really matter. Nationally the classes have been ranked higher, but not so much compared to others in the B1G.

Is he supposed to make the other teams recruit worse? He upgraded our recruiting, much of the conference upgraded as well. Definitely a narrower gap across the board and we see that play out on the field as well.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Is he supposed to make the other teams recruit worse? He upgraded our recruiting, much of the conference upgraded as well. Definitely a narrower gap across the board and we see that play out on the field as well.

Well said. If we are competing at a higher level on the field it means we have upgraded recruiting. Even if we aren't winning the on paper recruiting site battles.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

It's really quite simple.

Hypothetically, if Coyle were assessing Fleck and whether to give him a raise, hold steady, or let him go, you'd only do that assessment based on 2019, 2021, and 2022.

That's the truth of it.


The only relevant thing you can bring up about 2020 is the crony hiring of Sanford. That bled over into 2021, where I wish Fleck would've given him the Robb Smith treatment. That's about it.

I actually Robb Smith and Sanford were two of Fleck's least "crony" hires.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Is he supposed to make the other teams recruit worse? He upgraded our recruiting, much of the conference upgraded as well. Definitely a narrower gap across the board and we see that play out on the field as well.

Not disagreeing, merely outlining the basis for the narrative.

 

[Wooty_Woot]

I love spinning stats.

Just realized this. If you exclude the COVID year and Year 1 at both Western Michigan and MN his record is.

In these 7 seasons, (3 at WMU and 4 at MN)
65-27 overall (.792%)
41-19 in conference games (.683%)
Bowl all 7 years. 5-2 in bowls
3 Division Titles (including ties)
1 Conference Championship
1 BCS/NY6 Bowl

Why don't you just exclude all of his losses and say he's undefeated as an HC?

 

[Gophers_4life]

I actually Robb Smith and Sanford were two of Fleck's least "crony" hires.

I would love to hear your opinion/reasoning for saying that about Sanford!

Robb Smith, as far as I can surmise (guess), was just a mutual connection from the Schiano Rutgers tree. Must've had a great interview.

The DC at Western Michigan stayed behind to take over the program, I believe, or otherwise he would've been the DC here.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I would love to hear your opinion/reasoning for saying that about Sanford!

Robb Smith, as far as I can surmise (guess), was just a mutual connection from the Schiano Rutgers tree. Must've had a great interview.

The DC at Western Michigan stayed behind to take over the program, I believe, or otherwise he would've been the DC here.

Neither of them were Fleck cronies.

Cronyism involves hiring hiring your friends. Joe Rossi had worked with Fleck for years. Matt Simon, by critics, could be seen as a crony hire. He is firmly a "Fleck guy" and a critic could argue that he was hired because he's a Fleck guy.

As far as Sanford, his path had never crossed Fleck's prior to us hiring him. He was firmly outside of the Fleck circle prior to being hired as an OC. The same, but to a slightly lesser extent because of their time at Rutgers together, could be said about Robb Smith. Robb Smith was not someone who was just part of the Fleck inner circle and was promoted.

That doesn't mean they were good hires. They just weren't hires that you'd say were a product of cronyism.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Neither of them were Fleck cronies.

Cronyism involves hiring hiring your friends. Joe Rossi had worked with Fleck for years. Matt Simon, by critics, could be seen as a crony hire. He is firmly a "Fleck guy" and a critic could argue that he was hired because he's a Fleck guy.

As far as Sanford, his path had never crossed Fleck's prior to us hiring him. He was firmly outside of the Fleck circle prior to being hired as an OC. The same, but to a slightly lesser extent because of their time at Rutgers together, could be said about Robb Smith. Robb Smith was not someone who was just part of the Fleck inner circle and was promoted.

That doesn't mean they were good hires. They just weren't hires that you'd say were a product of cronyism.

Fleck and Sanford were personal friends.

There was an old picture (from when Fleck had full head of hair!) floating around somewhere showing like a backyard BBQ at Fleck's house up in Michigan, with Fleck and Sanford smiling together for the camera chumming it up. Not a far drive from South Bend, where Sanford was OC at the time.


Agree entirely with Robb Smith. Though perhaps a bit more "concern" could've been given to his immediately prior time of failing as DC at Arkansas for Bert, and why that happened.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Was curious what ol "two-B's" Robb is up to these days.

Went full-circle back to Rutgers, as DC for 2020-2021. And then went to Duke this year as DC.

Duke I believe had a pretty decent year under first year HC. So hey, happy for him! Hope he has figured it out.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Not disagreeing, merely outlining the basis for the narrative.

Whose narrative exactly? Because I guarantee Coyle didn't tell Fleck his recruiting classes have to be ranked at a particular level by sites like 247 and rivals.

One of the reasons Fleck was hired to improve recruiting. The only way to actually measure if a coach has done that is by looking at the results on the field. It has zero to do with where the recruiting classes rank on the websites.

Those looking for reasons to be negative will focus in on where our recruiting classes rank according to the websites. The rest will look at the talent on the field and ask if there is an obvious talent deficit between our team and the vast majority of teams we go up against (outside of the Ohio State, Michigan tier of teams). Because that talent deficit used to be there, it isn't anymore when you look at us compared to majority of the conference.

That means Fleck has improved recruiting. Whether you want to accept that or not is up to you I guess.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Whose narrative exactly? Because I guarantee Coyle didn't tell Fleck his recruiting classes have to be ranked at a particular level by sites like 247 and rivals.

One of the reasons Fleck was hired to improve recruiting. The only way to actually measure if a coach has done that is by looking at the results on the field. It has zero to do with where the recruiting classes rank on the websites.

Those looking for reasons to be negative will focus in on where our recruiting classes rank according to the websites. The rest will look at the talent on the field and ask if there is an obvious talent deficit between our team and the vast majority of teams we go up against (outside of the Ohio State, Michigan tier of teams). Because that talent deficit used to be there, it isn't anymore when you look at us compared to majority of the conference.

That means Fleck has improved recruiting. Whether you want to accept that or not is up to you I guess.

Out here, on GH. Many comments over the years about his recruiting. Many posts in the beginning talked about top 30 recruiting classes (some wanted top 20), consistently being in the top half of the B1G, and consistently getting more 4* and high level 3*. Now it's more that those aren't talked about now. Just relaying what was being posted.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Out here, on GH. Many comments over the years about his recruiting. Many posts in the beginning talked about top 30 recruiting classes (some wanted top 20), consistently being in the top half of the B1G, and consistently getting more 4* and high level 3*. Now it's more that those aren't talked about now. Just relaying what was being posted.

Probably because prior to Fleck the feeling was we needed all those things to have any chance at competing with our rivals on a regular basis. Now people have started to realize that there is more to it and that if you are getting quality 3* players with legit power 5 interest as opposed to mostly landing guys who only had G5 level offers you can compete with teams like Iowa and Wisconsin on a yearly basis.

The explosion of the portal has also taken a lot of steam out of the star chasing with high school recruits because so many guys transfer in and out now it is kind of a waste to get too invested in recruits who may never end up seeing the field for your school.

 

[Some guy]

I actually Robb Smith and Sanford were two of Fleck's least "crony" hires.

I agree.

It is pretty odd that someone would call smith and Sanford crony hires then in the same thread want Simon. A guy who hasn’t been an official position coach or coordinator for anyone other than fleck at the d1 level

(Quality control Northern Illinois)
(D3 st Thomas)
(Rutgers “player development” coach)
Fleck from 2014-present


No cronyism! Get rid of cronyism by hiring a guy who has only worked for you! Lol it’s comical.


**this is not me calling Simon a cronyism hire**

 

[2nd Degree Gopher]

Was curious what ol "two-B's" Robb is up to these days.

Went full-circle back to Rutgers, as DC for 2020-2021. And then went to Duke this year as DC.

Duke I believe had a pretty decent year under first year HC. So hey, happy for him! Hope he has figured it out.

Got to know the Smiths a bit while he was at the U. Nice people who had lived the nomadic life of an assistant coach. Family stayed in the Twin Cities to finish the school year when he got the job at Rutgers (early 2020) and then ended up staying in Minnesota after COVID hit. As far as I know, his wife is still here while their youngest finishes high school.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Got to know the Smiths a bit while he was at the U. Nice people who had lived the nomadic life of an assistant coach. Family stayed in the Twin Cities to finish the school year when he got the job at Rutgers (early 2020) and then ended up staying in Minnesota after COVID hit. As far as I know, his wife is still here while their youngest finishes high school.

Thanks for sharing! Wish him and his family well, nothing against them personally, of course

 

[Gophers_4life]

Who said anything about wanting to "get rid" of cronyism? Who said that Simon's hiring isn't a crony hire?

 

[Full Speed Ahead]

Thought I'd just dump this one here. I asked "Chat" to write a poem about PJ:

"Row the Boat", he preaches, a message so simple to give.
With a steady hand, he leads his team to the shore,
And inspires them to reach, for something more.

The oars in hand, and a rhythm in their hearts,
They row together, never once to part.
With each stroke they make, they move closer to the goal,
And with PJ Fleck, they'll never sink or roll.

For "Row the Boat" is more than just a phrase,
It's a way of life, with a powerful grace.
It means to work hard, and never give up the fight,
And to always strive, for what's just and right.

So here's to PJ Fleck, the Minnesota head coach,
A man with a message, that all should approach.
With "Row the Boat" as his guide, he leads his team to glory,
And inspires them to be, the best version of their story.

 

[roadrunner]