3-3-5 defense

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swede2

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For those lamenting the lackluster run game last night - a reminder that the Gophers rushed for all of 77 yards in the Pinstripe Bowl against Syracuse's 3-3-5 defense and that was with Mo I. in the backfield and JMS at center. There might be problems on the O-line and in the backfield, but last night probably isn't the game to use as the measure.
 

Can a football coach out there explain why the 3-3-5 is hard to run against? Seems almost like it would be the opposite.
 

swede2 said:
For those lamenting the lackluster run game last night - a reminder that the Gophers rushed for all of 77 yards in the Pinstripe Bowl against Syracuse's 3-3-5 defense and that was with Mo I. in the backfield and JMS at center. There might be problems on the O-line and in the backfield, but last night probably isn't the game to use as the measure.
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I agree to an extent. The Nebraska defensive front is probably a little better than most give them credit for but we certainly could have played better on the offensive line.
 


swede2 said:
For those lamenting the lackluster run game last night - a reminder that the Gophers rushed for all of 77 yards in the Pinstripe Bowl against Syracuse's 3-3-5 defense and that was with Mo I. in the backfield and JMS at center. There might be problems on the O-line and in the backfield, but last night probably isn't the game to use as the measure.
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Not to be that guy but JMS did not play in the Pinstripe bowl...
 




swede2 said:
For those lamenting the lackluster run game last night - a reminder that the Gophers rushed for all of 77 yards in the Pinstripe Bowl against Syracuse's 3-3-5 defense and that was with Mo I. in the backfield and JMS at center. There might be problems on the O-line and in the backfield, but last night probably isn't the game to use as the measure.
Click to expand...
Mo only played until he get the TD record early in the game and JMS did not play.
 




swede2 said:
For those lamenting the lackluster run game last night - a reminder that the Gophers rushed for all of 77 yards in the Pinstripe Bowl against Syracuse's 3-3-5 defense and that was with Mo I. in the backfield and JMS at center. There might be problems on the O-line and in the backfield, but last night probably isn't the game to use as the measure.
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The Gophers are no strangers to the 3-3-5 Defense having faced Tony White's Syracuse team.
 


Word said:
Can a football coach out there explain why the 3-3-5 is hard to run against? Seems almost like it would be the opposite.
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Unblocked linebackers coming in from odd angles. As long as the front three DLs hold their own (Nebby's are good) and let the LBs run free, it can be a tough defense. For example, the O-Tackle might be uncovered and want to zone block down towards the Guard. In the split second after the ball is snapped, the Tackle tries to identify who to block, sees no defender in front of his path, so he doubles down on the next defensive lineman. Meanwhile, an LB that hesitated slightly at the snap comes in from behind to blow up the play. That scenario happened a handful of times yesterday. Especially hard for a new offensive line that hasn't worked together much.
 




Panthadad2 said:
Unblocked linebackers coming in from odd angles. As long as the front three DLs hold their own (Nebby's are good) and let the LBs run free, it can be a tough defense. For example, the O-Tackle might be uncovered and want to zone block down towards the Guard. In the split second after the ball is snapped, the Tackle tries to identify who to block, sees no defender in front of his path, so he doubles down on the next defensive lineman. Meanwhile, an LB that hesitated slightly at the snap comes in from behind to blow up the play. That scenario happened a handful of times yesterday. Especially hard for a new offensive line that hasn't worked together much.
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Exactly the difficulty with this defense. It creates multiple levels that allows defenders to get open run thrus to the ball carriers. It is a very confusing defense for an offense but you better have three dudes up front that can eat up blockers and Nebraska looks to have those.
 


Word said:
Can a football coach out there explain why the 3-3-5 is hard to run against? Seems almost like it would be the opposite.
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It's called a 3-3-5, but it really is just a shape-shifting thing. I was at the game, in a lower seat. From my vantage point, it seemed as though Neb almost always had at least 5, and sometimes 6 or 7, on or near the LOS pre-snap. Very hard for OL to understand assignments in run game. At the snap, sometimes all 6 or 7 would come; more often some would drop off the line into coverage or second level defensive position. A few times, a blitz came from a position not part of the "stacked" line. It is very hard to run against such a formation, really a stacked box not a three man front, unless you guess right as to a weak gap. How to beat it? By passing, which is what the Gophers did. Athan threw 44 times versus 24 rushing attempts. Our OL gave very good pass protection; only one breakdown. As Athan matures and gains better coordination with his receiver corps, I think we will play better against the "3-3-5." Good route running and separation are the key to beating this defense, since it will be in man coverage when the box is stacked. Check out the superb route Jackson ran on the 4th down TD to tie the game. The route, creating separation, was almost as beautiful as the superbly athletic catch.
 
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swede2 said:
For those lamenting the lackluster run game last night - a reminder that the Gophers rushed for all of 77 yards in the Pinstripe Bowl against Syracuse's 3-3-5 defense and that was with Mo I. in the backfield and JMS at center. There might be problems on the O-line and in the backfield, but last night probably isn't the game to use as the measure.
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Mo rushed for 71 yards in two quarters against that defense.

It is apparent Mo was a difference maker.

Last time we rushed for as little as we did last night (55 yards) was the Purdue game last year (47 yards). Guess who didn't play in the Purdue game?
 

Panthadad2 said:
Unblocked linebackers coming in from odd angles. As long as the front three DLs hold their own (Nebby's are good) and let the LBs run free, it can be a tough defense. For example, the O-Tackle might be uncovered and want to zone block down towards the Guard. In the split second after the ball is snapped, the Tackle tries to identify who to block, sees no defender in front of his path, so he doubles down on the next defensive lineman. Meanwhile, an LB that hesitated slightly at the snap comes in from behind to blow up the play. That scenario happened a handful of times yesterday. Especially hard for a new offensive line that hasn't worked together much.
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Additionally, I would add, that since it’s a gimmicky D, you don’t and won’t see it often and it’s hard to replicate in practice.

We played against a 4-4 stack in HS and it seemed like there guys coming from every and any direction.
 



GoldenUMNGopher said:
Seems like everyone should be running the 3-3-5 defense
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Got to have the right personnel … and the 3-3-5 can be beaten. Its benefits create corresponding risks of allowing explosive plays. As offenses get more used to facing it, and as film/tendencies can be studied, its weaknesses (at least against disciplined, talent offenses) will become more apparent and exploitable.
 

Word said:
Can a football coach out there explain why the 3-3-5 is hard to run against? Seems almost like it would be the opposite.
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O linemen get confused on who to block. Boe blocked nobody on the play the D tackle ran right by him, resulting in a hard sack of Athan.

Boe was looking left for whoever he thought he was supposed to block.
 

Panthadad2 said:
Unblocked linebackers coming in from odd angles. As long as the front three DLs hold their own (Nebby's are good) and let the LBs run free, it can be a tough defense. For example, the O-Tackle might be uncovered and want to zone block down towards the Guard. In the split second after the ball is snapped, the Tackle tries to identify who to block, sees no defender in front of his path, so he doubles down on the next defensive lineman. Meanwhile, an LB that hesitated slightly at the snap comes in from behind to blow up the play. That scenario happened a handful of times yesterday. Especially hard for a new offensive line that hasn't worked together much.
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Sounds like we need a full back to soften up those linebackers
 

Word said:
Can a football coach out there explain why the 3-3-5 is hard to run against? Seems almost like it would be the opposite.
Click to expand...
It's really not, it's just slightly different assignments. It will look like a 4-2-5 on some downs, a 4-3 on some downs, and a 3-4 on some downs. In some ways, Rossi uses similar aspects of it in our offense with our safety/slot player that is really a slot CB/LB/S hybrid.

I don't think the 3-3-5 had anything to do with why our offense struggled last night. I think our OL didn't have any rhythm, a couple guys were getting beat up front, and Tyler/Taylor only had 11 carries - of which they weren't completely stifled.

I also think it was a bit of playcalling and I don't think Bryce Williams is going to be super effective against Big 10 opponents. I like Bryce and he has a role, but we need one of those young guys to step up and split the carries with Tyler.
 

Gophergrandpa said:
Got to have the right personnel … and the 3-3-5 can be beaten. Its benefits create corresponding risks of allowing explosive plays. As offenses get more used to facing it, and as film/tendencies can be studied, its weaknesses (at least against disciplined, talent offenses) will become more apparent and exploitable.
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We beat the triple option with a month to prepare against GT...

Maybe we should play football year round with a month between games so we can beat a 3-3-5, 1-5-5, or whatever...:p
 


PJ said that they basically ran the Syracuse defense, but there is quite a difference in having 300+ guys on the line running it at Nebraska then having guys at 260 guys at 'Cuse.
 



noamfromm said:
I shouldn't have expected anything helpful from some guy on the internet
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I mean my source is watching cincinatti football games partially the last few years.

As Bob said they’ll be multiple. But they were 4 man fronts the majority of the time.
Some people call them a 2-4-5, 3-3-5, or 4-2-5

I call them a 4-2-5 because they typically have 4 on the LOS.
I wouldn’t call them 3-3-5 because they’re rarely stacked. Sometimes 1 or 2 of those 4 are Lb types and don’t have hands on the ground.
 
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