2nd in the JV division

[Some guy]

I can’t believe no local media have written about the fact that the nfc north is the only division without 2 winning teams.
AFC south is only division with fewer total wins.

JV division for the Vikings and they can’t win it.

print that stuff

 

[Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0]

Shouldn't this thread be in the OT board?

 

[minnyrules11]

This is a Gopher board. Many actually like both teams.

 

[Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0]

This is a Gopher board. Many actually like both teams.

That's why there's an OT board for posting pro sports related posts here!

 

[Some guy]

This clearly was a gopher related thread as it was a commentary on the local media’s differentiated treatment for the football teams. But that’s fine, move it

 

[Ope3]

I can’t believe no local media have written about the fact that the nfc north is the only division without 2 winning teams.
AFC south is only division with fewer total wins.

JV division for the Vikings and they can’t win it.

print that stuff

Finishing 2nd in said NFC North/JV Division gets oneself fired as HC and GM. Finishing 2nd in the Big 10 West/JV garners a raise and extension.

 

[Some guy]

Finishing 2nd in said NFC North/JV Division gets oneself fired as HC and GM. Finishing 2nd in the Big 10 West/JV garners a raise and extension.

Only because in the nfl the league is designed for different teams to win and in college football it is structured in a way that reduces some teams ability to compete.

Even sadder when you consider losing gives Vikings better draft position while losing makes it harder for the gophers to recruit.

You seem bitter about this extension. Sorry you didn’t get an inflationary raise this year.

 

[Ope3]

Only because in the nfl the league is designed for different teams to win and in college football it is structured in a way that reduces some teams ability to compete.

Even sadder when you consider losing gives Vikings better draft position while losing makes it harder for the gophers to recruit.

You seem bitter about this extension. Sorry you didn’t get an inflationary raise this year.

Not sure how your takeaway was that I am bitter about the the extension. Totally fine with it, wholeheartedly.

Your OP analogy I took to be comment about TC media which in my opinion is a reach, sarcasm or not.

Face value, finishing 2nd (and 3rd/Bears) in the NFC North got the GMs & Coaches fired. Finishing 2nd in the Big 10 West got the HC an extension and raise, so why would the media draw a line of comparison? Not to mention, the media is focused on the successors for those positions.

Regarding the Big 10 West itself, in my opinion it's not going to last in it's current condition for more than a couple of seasons. Once the BCS Playoff Expansion is worked out, look for the Big 10 to realign and/or expand in a way they feel will maximize the number of teams that can get in the tournament and monetize their Championship game.

I hope the Gophers can take advantage of the current set up, it won't be around much longer. Best that could be hoped for is a tweak and somehow wind up in an opposite division from Ohio St, though more likely is abandoning divisions all together.

Conversely, the NFL could re-align soon as well. Expansion seems on the horizon though I expect somehow the Vikings NFC North (formerly the Central) brethren will still be tied together is some manner.

 

[Some guy]

Not sure how your takeaway was that I am bitter about the the extension. Totally fine with it, wholeheartedly.

Your OP analogy I took to be comment about TC media which in my opinion is a reach, sarcasm or not.

It is a reach for sure. The nfl is structured differently than college football. Since the beginning of the merger conferences and divisions are designed to be balanced…in college this is not true at all. Yet when the gophers are playing in probably the 3-6th best division in the country are getting 2nd we get weeks of articles poking fun at the west and when the Vikings are playing in the 7th or 8th best division we get talk of how great the Vikings are: but yes you are correct that their divisional situation is not comparable

Face value, finishing 2nd (and 3rd/Bears) in the NFC North got the GMs & Coaches fired. Finishing 2nd in the Big 10 West got the HC an extension and raise, so why would the media draw a line of comparison? Not to mention, the media is focused on the successors for those positions.

finishing 2nd in the west got a coordinator fired or non renewed for the gophers. So it’s interesting that you say that’s a point of difference. It’s actually a point of similarity.

Regarding the Big 10 West itself, in my opinion it's not going to last in it's current condition for more than a couple of seasons. Once the BCS Playoff Expansion is worked out, look for the Big 10 to realign and/or expand in a way they feel will maximize the number of teams that can get in the tournament and monetize their Championship game.

Not sure how the voting works but there are at least 9 teams in the big ten who greatly benefit from the current divisional alignment. Unless conference championships go away, east-west isn’t changing without expansion of the conference. In a 12 team playoff with 6 at larges…it actually benefits the conference to have 1 play 4 in the conference title game instead of 1 vs 2….people like to point to the big 12 model is better…but it literally cost them a playoff spot this year…whoops. In a 12 team Ohio state vs Iowa avoids a loss for Michigan state or Ohio state. If Iowa wins Michigan is in anyways. 1v2 would mean 2 maybe 3 in a 12 team playoff. Ohio state Iowa would mean 3 maybe 4 in a 12 team playoff.


I hope the Gophers can take advantage of the current set up, it won't be around much longer. Best that could be hoped for is a tweak and somehow wind up in an opposite division from Ohio St, though more likely is abandoning divisions all together.

Conversely, the NFL could re-align soon as well. Expansion seems on the horizon though I expect somehow the Vikings NFC North (formerly the Central) brethren will still be tied together is some manner.

If you think that the big ten is abandoning divisions you don’t understand how scheduling works…here are a couple things I know to be true:
1) the big ten isn’t going to design a schedule where it is possible for 3 teams to go unbeaten in the same season
2) the only way to avoid that is round robin…which is impossible in a conference this big
3) so the real only solution is to pool teams into scheduling groups
4) number 3 is the same thing as divisions
5) divisions could change from year to year (maybe this is what you are saying)

 

[Ope3]

finishing 2nd in the west got a coordinator fired or non renewed for the gophers. So it’s interesting that you say that’s a point of difference. It’s actually a point of similarity.

If you think that the big ten is abandoning divisions you don’t understand how scheduling works…here are a couple things I know to be true:
1) the big ten isn’t going to design a schedule where it is possible for 3 teams to go unbeaten in the same season
2) the only way to avoid that is round robin…which is impossible in a conference this big
3) so the real only solution is to pool teams into scheduling groups
4) number 3 is the same thing as divisions
5) divisions could change from year to year (maybe this is what you are saying)

I don't view the Gophers blowing out their OC as similar. That's just 1 coaching slot reporting to the HC, all the others were able to remain (unless they chose leave, seeking promotions presumably). With the GM & HC, everyone down to the strength and video coaches are now looking for new employment or hope to latch on with whomever is brought in.

Regarding the future of Big 10 Divisions and scheduling, here's the one thing I know to be true: The answer to most questions is MONEY.

If Fox, ESPN or whatever broadcast partner will pay more for something different, it will happen. One legitimate proposal is no Divisions, but 3 (or whatever number) protected rivalry games. 1 would play 2 in the Championship.

Other options are also possible, like more than 2 do divisions and another round of crossover or conference playoff games.

 

[Some guy]

: The answer to most questions is MONEY.

If Fox, ESPN or whatever broadcast partner will pay more for something different, it will happen. One legitimate proposal is no Divisions, but 3 (or whatever number) protected rivalry games. 1 would play 2 in the Championship.

Other options are also possible, like more than 2 do divisions and another round of crossover or conference playoff games.

sorry but the scheduling scenario you just laid out would leave open the possibility of an unbeaten team not winning even appearing conference title game.

that’s not happening.

 

[Ope3]

sorry but the scheduling scenario you just laid out would leave open the possibility of an unbeaten team not winning even appearing conference title game.

that’s not happening.

It would be a tough tie-breaker, that's for sure (BCS ranking could be used). Still, I am not dismissing it as a possibility, especially if (more like when) the Big 10 expands beyond 14 teams.

Also to be determined is the impact of the Pac 12 & Big 12 alliance games. At minimum, conference games will likely be reduced back to 8 from 9, if everything else stays the same.

Once the Playoff expansion is determined, the dominos will fall.

 

[Some guy]

It would be a tough tie-breaker, that's for sure (BCS ranking could be used). Still, I am not dismissing it as a possibility, especially if (more like when) the Big 10 expands beyond 14 teams.

Also to be determined is the impact of the Pac 12 & Big 12 alliance games. At minimum, conference games will likely be reduced back to 8 from 9, if everything else stays the same.

Once the Playoff expansion is determined, the dominos will fall.

And when they fall, the won’t fall into a divisionless set up. Otherwise the possibility of 3 unbeatens exists.

if you don’t understand they won’t sign up for a scenario you could go unbeaten and not win the conference…you really don’t understand sports or football.

 

[Ope3]

And when they fall, the won’t fall into a divisionless set up. Otherwise the possibility of 3 unbeatens exists.

if you don’t understand they won’t sign up for a scenario you could go unbeaten and not win the conference…you really don’t understand sports or football.

They will sign up for whatever if the the dollars are big enough and risk the unlikely 3 unbeaten scenario.

It's not the only option as I said when I threw it out. The Conference Championship/play-off could get expanded or kaboshed entirely depending on the BCS format. Teams may leave, be added, extra divisions created, conferences could merge...possibilities are limitless.

By 2025 I think there will be sizeable changes to the Big 10 East/West alignment. Enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[Some guy]

They will sign up for whatever if the the dollars are big enough and risk the unlikely 3 unbeaten scenario.

It's not the only option as I said when I threw it out. The Conference Championship/play-off could get expanded or kaboshed entirely depending on the BCS format. Teams may leave, be added, extra divisions created, conferences could merge...possibilities are limitless.

By 2025 I think there will be sizeable changes to the Big 10 East/West alignment. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Lol okay

 

[Ope3]

Lol okay

Put the West/East divisions aside, by the year 2026 do you think it will be the same 14 schools that constitute the Big 10?

If YES, then the Big 10 West/East alignment could remain as such. I would still think the broadcast partners would call for some sort of modification, especially if the West is 0 for whatever by then in the Championship.

Most likely the membership will change by then, in addition the format for the BCS, thus the alignment will also be altered.

 

[Ope3]

And when they fall, the won’t fall into a divisionless set up. Otherwise the possibility of 3 unbeatens exists.

if you don’t understand they won’t sign up for a scenario you could go unbeaten and not win the conference…you really don’t understand sports or football.

Great news, I figured out a foolproof way to avoid the 3 Unbeaten Team possiblity!

Caveats:
No ties allowed
Number of Conference Games is at least equal to the amount of Teams in Conference divided by 2, less 1 . For example, if the Conference has 20 teams need at least a conference slate of 9 games.

Any given year split the teams in half, does not matter how including based on geography. Could be, East-West (naturally this would protect rivalries the best), North-South, previous standings, alphabetical, random draw... whatever.

Ensure each team in the group plays round robin, voila no more than 2 teams would be undefeated. If schedule allows for crossover games, so be it, but in the end there would be no more than 2 teams without a loss in the Overall Standings.

In simplified terms, the exact same current scheduling rules could exist without change and no more than 2 teams would emerge unbeaten.

Way too much time on my hands? Obsessive compulsive? Guilty as charged, but the conundrum was bugging me.

Imagine no Divisions, it's easy if you try.

 

[Some guy]

Great news, I figured out a foolproof way to avoid the 3 Unbeaten Team possiblity!

Caveats:
No ties allowed
Number of Conference Games is at least equal to the amount of Teams in Conference divided by 2, less 1 . For example, if the Conference has 20 teams need at least a conference slate of 9 games.

Any given year split the teams in half, does not matter how including based on geography. Could be, East-West (naturally this would protect rivalries the best), North-South, previous standings, alphabetical, random draw... whatever.

Ensure each team in the group plays round robin, voila no more than 2 teams would be undefeated. If schedule allows for crossover games, so be it, but in the end there would be no more than 2 teams without a loss in the Overall Standings.

In simplified terms, the exact same current scheduling rules could exist without change and no more than 2 teams would emerge unbeaten.

Way too much time on my hands? Obsessive compulsive? Guilty as charged, but the conundrum was bugging me.

Imagine no Divisions, it's easy if you try.

Woah you’re going to divide the conference in half and have them play round robin within that half?

Like divisions?

It is a reach for sure. The nfl is structured differently than college football. Since the beginning of the merger conferences and divisions are designed to be balanced…in college this is not true at all. Yet when the gophers are playing in probably the 3-6th best division in the country are getting 2nd we get weeks of articles poking fun at the west and when the Vikings are playing in the 7th or 8th best division we get talk of how great the Vikings are: but yes you are correct that their divisional situation is not comparable


finishing 2nd in the west got a coordinator fired or non renewed for the gophers. So it’s interesting that you say that’s a point of difference. It’s actually a point of similarity.


Not sure how the voting works but there are at least 9 teams in the big ten who greatly benefit from the current divisional alignment. Unless conference championships go away, east-west isn’t changing without expansion of the conference. In a 12 team playoff with 6 at larges…it actually benefits the conference to have 1 play 4 in the conference title game instead of 1 vs 2….people like to point to the big 12 model is better…but it literally cost them a playoff spot this year…whoops. In a 12 team Ohio state vs Iowa avoids a loss for Michigan state or Ohio state. If Iowa wins Michigan is in anyways. 1v2 would mean 2 maybe 3 in a 12 team playoff. Ohio state Iowa would mean 3 maybe 4 in a 12 team playoff.


I hope the Gophers can take advantage of the current set up, it won't be around much longer. Best that could be hoped for is a tweak and somehow wind up in an opposite division from Ohio St, though more likely is abandoning divisions all together.


If you think that the big ten is abandoning divisions you don’t understand how scheduling works…here are a couple things I know to be true:
1) the big ten isn’t going to design a schedule where it is possible for 3 teams to go unbeaten in the same season
2) the only way to avoid that is round robin…which is impossible in a conference this big
3) so the real only solution is to pool teams into scheduling groups
4) number 3 is the same thing as divisions
5) divisions could change from year to year (maybe this is what you are saying)

I literally said this in 4 and 5

 

[Some guy]

Put the West/East divisions aside, by the year 2026 do you think it will be the same 14 schools that constitute the Big 10?

If YES, then the Big 10 West/East alignment could remain as such. I would still think the broadcast partners would call for some sort of modification, especially if the West is 0 for whatever by then in the Championship.

Most likely the membership will change by then, in addition the format for the BCS, thus the alignment will also be altered.

Strongly disagree that the big ten will grow by 2026

there are not many places to grow that make the current big ten teams more money than they’re making.

2026 is really soon

 

[Ope3]

Woah you’re going to divide the conference in half and have them play round robin within that half?

Like divisions?

I literally said this in 4 and 5

Yes, but if the groups are only used for the scheduling and not the standings then to me it's not a "Division".

I guess technically still could keep an East/West Standings (give each winner a trophy), but still base the participants in the Big 10 Championship on the 2 teams with the best Conference record, regardless of their Division. The trophy part in that situation (to a non-Title Game participant) to a would admittedly be hollow and subject to ridicule.

Also rereading your post, yeah it was your proposal. Wasn't clicking with me though. My bad.

 

[Ope3]

Strongly disagree that the big ten will grow by 2026

there are not many places to grow that make the current big ten teams more money than they’re making.

2026 is really soon

True 2026 is relatively soon, but look how much things shuffled after Oklahoma/Texas took their talents to the SEC. The best of what's left in the Big 12 is still ripe to be cherry picked. I'm also not sold on the Pac 12 holding it all together over the long haul.

With NIL, transfer portal, TV deals expiring and BCS expansion on the horizon, I just see it as still being in flux, with a Super Conference being the next step. Maybe not this decade, but sometime.

 

[Ope3]

Turns out finishing 1st in the NFL JV Division, while securing the #1 seed/bye in back to back seasons, doesn't foster any success in January.

 

[GophersInIowa]

 

[GophersInIowa]

 

[Wally]

Face value, finishing 2nd (and 3rd/Bears) in the NFC North got the GMs & Coaches fired.

You really think that's why Zim got fired?
I think there was more to it than just the record.

 

[Ope3]

You really think that's why Zim got fired?
I think there was more to it than just the record.

Yes there was more to it, but if he won the Division he probably sticks around. Heck, Vikings could have still been around this weekend, hypothetically.

 

[Ope3]

Strongly disagree that the big ten will grow by 2026

there are not many places to grow that make the current big ten teams more money than they’re making.

2026 is really soon

I should have bet the under, B1G time.

 

[Ope3]

They will sign up for whatever if the the dollars are big enough and risk the unlikely 3 unbeaten scenario.

It's not the only option as I said when I threw it out. The Conference Championship/play-off could get expanded or kaboshed entirely depending on the BCS format. Teams may leave, be added, extra divisions created, conferences could merge...possibilities are limitless.

By 2025 I think there will be sizeable changes to the Big 10 East/West alignment. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Lol okay

Last laugh. Good times.

I was so off base. Missed it by a year.

 

[Some guy]

Last laugh. Good times.

I was so off base. Missed it by a year.

Yup I was wrong.
I kind of had my own wishes blind me I guess.

I am still not convinced the money is going to be substantially different at 18 than it was at 14, or especially 16.

So I now think expansion will be much bigger.


I also didn’t think the big ten would design a schedule that was mathematically stupid. But they have. And the possibility of 3 and 4 way ties without any common opponents is there in a lot of combinations. We will see how many combos there are once they schedule in Washington and Oregon.
To me it says conference championships are far less important than playoff births. Which is fine. I will adjust my goals for the program.


This is also a random thread to bump. Considering I posted similar stuff in many threads and this was a thread about the local media having a double standard between gopher and Viking success.

 

[Ope3]

Yup I was wrong.
I kind of had my own wishes blind me I guess.

I am still not convinced the money is going to be substantially different at 18 than it was at 14, or especially 16.

So I now think expansion will be much bigger.


I also didn’t think the big ten would design a schedule that was mathematically stupid. But they have. And the possibility of 3 and 4 way ties without any common opponents is there in a lot of combinations. We will see how many combos there are once they schedule in Washington and Oregon.
To me it says conference championships are far less important than playoff births. Which is fine. I will adjust my goals for the program.


This is also a random thread to bump. Considering I posted similar stuff in many threads and this was a thread about the local media having a double standard between gopher and Viking success.

It's not a random thread at all to bump. I am completely breaking my arm patting myself on the back and totally admit it.

I think you're right about the money not being substantially different. I would be lying if I said I understood the financials. It seems more about territory accumulation then actually working the revenue in/shared.

Also, this was where I first recall you brining up the 3-unbeaten (which I while a still correctly thought money would trump it), you did open my eyes as to how messy it can be, especially supersized.

I also agree about the adjusting of goals to the Playoff birth rather than Conference Championship. Getting a Bye as a result of winning it would be nice, but more important to just get in.

In an 18 team (or larger) Big 10 will a Top 4 or 5 finish be enough to get in? No idea.