25 year season ticket holder

[Boomtime]

I guess real fans blindly accept and pay for mediocrity and incompetence year...after year...after year and attack anyone else who doesn't? Good for you.

I think a big share of the malcontents(me included) expected better results given the pre season hype from Fleck.

Perhaps next year, with lower expectations, we'll be pleasantly surprised?

Either way, Fleck is the HC for the forseeable future. Hopefully he grows as an in game manager.

 

[boofbonser]

I guess real fans blindly accept and pay for mediocrity and incompetence year...after year...after year and attack anyone else who doesn't? Good for you.

As a Tottenham fan (I presume) you should be used to mediocrity and incompetence.

 

[Boomtime]

The disappointment from fans this season is magnified because the schedule pretty much looked like a 10-2/9-3 season right out of the gate. As it turns out, we missed three of the best four teams out of the East and we have Wisky at home.

The Iowa game hurts because everyone says we have more talent. If it proves anything, it proves coaching trumps equal/better talent.

Oh, and we just pledged to 6-7 more years of elite mediocrity.

 

[Ope3]

I would willingly congratulate him for walking out in the 3rd quarter. Didn't it get worse after he walked out? He made a beautiful choice. Didn't have to watch Fat Boy coaching Illinois having fun at the end. And didn't have to watch a quarter and half of pre-historic football.

No, it didn't get any worse. Gophers scored in the 4th Quarter to make it 14-6. Defense came up with stops to at least keep it within reach. Had the ball at the end of the game with a chance to tie.

 

[Word]

Man that is a lot of thinking over football. You either win or loose. We lost. It feels better to win.

For the first time in a LONG time I agree with something Tommyboy is posting.

 

[Ope3]

Off topic, but just goes to show how big a difference a different coordinator can be. It was a much different team with Rossi as the DC following the Illinois loss.

Yeah, but just on the surface changing OC mid-season would have much less of a chance at short term success. Much more intricate in play design & game planning etc.

Plus, I think the current OC is doing exactly what the HC wants, he was hand picked less than 24 months ago. If PJ want to change the plan of attack, all he has to do is call into the headset and say "Hey, let's try to some quick hitting slants!" Or screens. Or play action. Or whatever floats/rows the boat.

 

[alchemy2u]

Why did you walk out on a nationally ranked team on a 4 game winning streak in a competitive game last week?

If our players and coaches had this attitude the Gophers wouldn't still be a winning Big Ten team.

I'm disappointed too, especially when the stats and the eye test both said the Gophers should have won today, but lighten up.

I used to share season tickets for Gopher hockey for years and years. I lived and died on every game and watched every minute of the games. Having a kid that played hockey and having coached the game for over a decade, it was my major sport.

Towards the end of the Lucia era I got up and walked out of a few games, some as early as the second period. It was just too painful to watch players that lack the basic fundamentals like catching a pass, etc. I do not expect the home team to win every game, but you want to see a good game where the team gives its all.

 

[Boomtime]

For the first time in a LONG time I agree with something Tommyboy is posting.

Yep. It seems apathy is returning to Gopher football.

I mean, I understand some of the reasoning behind PJ's hype machine last summer. He likely had a plan in seeking the contract extension, and some of that was probably tied to fan attendance. And student ticket sales. It's a lot easier for Fleck's agent to lobby for more $$$/years when you can point to butts in seats and say fan interest is high.

Of course, Coyle will say all the right things now that he's tethered to PJF. Then again, one only has to look at Nebraska to realize that's a risky venture. AD Moos brought in Frost. After 3/4 miserable years, Moos is shown the door and Frost takes a pay cut to save his job and is forced to axe a few assts.

When you see PJF getting rid of his assts, it'll be the first sign the heat is on.

 

[disco]

To what do you attribute the dramatic change in Gopher FB post 61?

There are a couple things that I've heard, though I wasn't alive in the 60's.

1. People here have said that the administration intentionally decided to de-emphasize sports, and football in particular. I don't know if this is true, or why they did that.

2. Teams like Minnesota recruited Black players like Bobby Bell that couldn't play in the SEC or SWC. Once the southern schools integrated in the late 60's, that was an advantage teams like Minnesota no longer had.

 

[disco]

Towards the end of the Lucia era I got up and walked out of a few games, some as early as the second period. It was just too painful to watch players that lack the basic fundamentals like catching a pass, etc. I do not expect the home team to win every game, but you want to see a good game where the team gives its all.

The whole Big Ten destroying college hockey aside, the Gophers hockey team are the equivalent of an AAU basketball team. They're basically a bunch of individuals padding stats to go on to the next level.

 

[Tlsbhansen]

As a Tottenham fan (I presume) you should be used to mediocrity and incompetence.

True that. Sadly, I feel like I have watched the Gophers regress to Jose-ball this season much like Spurs did last year.

Of course...as a Twins fan (presumably) you are used to even worse!

 

[Spaulding!No!]

See the world from the back of my Harley!

 

[boofbonser]

True that. Sadly, I feel like I have watched the Gophers regress to Jose-ball this season much like Spurs did last year.

Of course...as a Twins fan (presumably) you are used to even worse!

Haha, somewhat similar but the twins have actually won a couple titles in MLB. Can’t say the same for the Spurs in the EPL or champion’s league.

 

[bsce97]

nice reply...are you a youngster? Grow-up.

I'm with Harley_Gopher and gopherjay. I saw my first Gopher game in 1959 and had season tickets most years from the early 70's to a couple of years past the opening of the new stadium. Finally gave them up due to age and health. Sad to say, based on 60 years of following the Gophers, when the Gophers are faced with a program turning game, I expect them to lose and they almost always do. I thought 2019 might be a turning point, but even then we lost to Wisconsin and Iowa. I guess my point is, Harley_Gopher and gopherjay have earned the right to express their disappointment with the program. This bulletin board isn't meant just for Gopher cheerleaders and Fleck apologists.

Criticizing or not criticizing the coach, the players, the mascot, the weather, the toilet that didn't flush - whatever the complaint, isn't the problem.

Feeling the need to tell everyone you are taking your toys and going home because the current state of affairs makes you miserable says more about you than the thing that is making you miserable. Maybe it is an attempt to exert some control over that which you have no control over, or maybe it is a coping mechanism for feeling let down and disappointed. But if there is one thing I've learned in life is if you are relying on external things to define you and make you happy, you are in for a lot of disappointment when those external things inevitably fail to perform to your expectations. Why give something so totally out of your control that much power to make you happy or sad?

Do I want the Gophers to win national championships and return to their days of dominance prior to the modern TV era? Of course I do. Do I think Fleck has pulled some boners coaching? Yeah, absolutely. Do I think he has a QB and OC problem? Yeah, most definitely. Is the grand scheme of my life going to be affected if the Gophers go 11-1 or 1 -11? Not in the least bit - unless I let it. That is the point that is being made here.

 

[BBJones]

Criticizing or not criticizing the coach, the players, the mascot, the weather, the toilet that didn't flush - whatever the complaint, isn't the problem.

Feeling the need to tell everyone you are taking your toys and going home because the current state of affairs makes you miserable says more about you than the thing that is making you miserable. Maybe it is an attempt to exert some control over that which you have no control over, or maybe it is a coping mechanism for feeling let down and disappointed. But if there is one thing I've learned in life is if you are relying on external things to define you and make you happy, you are in for a lot of disappointment when those external things inevitably fail to perform to your expectations. Why give something so totally out of your control that much power to make you happy or sad?

Do I want the Gophers to win national championships and return to their days of dominance prior to the modern TV era? Of course I do. Do I think Fleck has pulled some boners coaching? Yeah, absolutely. Do I think he has a QB and OC problem? Yeah, most definitely. Is the grand scheme of my life going to be affected if the Gophers go 11-1 or 1 -11? Not in the least bit - unless I let it. That is the point that is being made here.

Not everyone can be as objective as you. If I remember correctly, fan is an abbreviation of fanatic. If you eliminate the fans who "live and die" with their teams,
you're not going to have many left. And all fans, not just the ones who agree with you, have the right to express their opinions, whether they are supportive or critical. You, of course, have the right to ignore them.

 

[FanSinceTheFifties]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions on where to invest their time and money. OP, thanks for supporting the program so long. Sad to hear you've reached the end of what you can stand. One would think the Brewster years would've done you in, but thanks for persisting.

I've been thinking this morning I need to invest less emotionally in this team as well. I spend WAY too much time caring about Gopher FB. I think it's sad the staff and players couldn't capitalize on a HUGE opportunity to elevate the program this year...so we'll have a fair number of people feeling like the OP (or even me). In the end, FB is just a game so it's probably the healthier decision anyway. In sum, this season has been very disappointing...like VERY much so. Glad to make a bowl game, but it could've been much better. Not leaving, but sad and checking out emotionally for a bit.

I've followed Gopher football since the 50s. Since the early sixties when the program ceased to be a national power, I watch interestedly but not emotionally as I don't expect us to be a top 20 team or to win trophy games very often. We have many recruiting obstacles and sadly, there's now another big one -- i.e. the dreadful reputation Mpls has. I enjoy watching the games and the program is the best it has been since the Mason era so each week I start each game thinking we CAN win but may not. I think Iowa and Wisconsin fans can watch thinking they WILL win each week. Call me loyal but rational. Be well.

There are a couple things that I've heard, though I wasn't alive in the 60's.

1. People here have said that the administration intentionally decided to de-emphasize sports, and football in particular. I don't know if this is true, or why they did that.

2. Teams like Minnesota recruited Black players like Bobby Bell that couldn't play in the SEC or SWC. Once the southern schools integrated in the late 60's, that was an advantage teams like Minnesota no longer had.

I've read that opinion about black players. Couple of things that don't support that: 1. teams like Alabama, Tennessee, Texas, and Oklahoma were already strong years before integrated rosters. And 2. Why would the loss of the alleged advantage to Minnesota for recruiting black players not apply as well to Iowa and Wisconsin?

No, to me the obvious reason is that top recruits of all races are more likely to choose a school where their team is the top attraction in town, not one where their team plays in the shadow of a handful of pro sports that dominate media and fan attention. This is true for U of M basketball, too.

 

[Word]

The whole Big Ten destroying college hockey aside, the Gophers hockey team are the equivalent of an AAU basketball team. They're basically a bunch of individuals padding stats to go on to the next level.

You could say that about a lot of the college hockey programs that attract high draft picks. Probably could say that about a lot of college basketball programs too.

 

[Ope3]

There are a couple things that I've heard, though I wasn't alive in the 60's.

1. People here have said that the administration intentionally decided to de-emphasize sports, and football in particular. I don't know if this is true, or why they did that.

2. Teams like Minnesota recruited Black players like Bobby Bell that couldn't play in the SEC or SWC. Once the southern schools integrated in the late 60's, that was an advantage teams like Minnesota no longer had.

Point 2 spot on.

Also, the Vikings came on the scene in the 60s and once the Bud Grant era started to get going the diverted public focus on the Gophers is undeniable.

 

[MaxyJR1]

My wife is reading Fleck's book, she buys maroon and gold and we're all in. I don't watch the NFL/Vikings much any more to balance football and family/life.

Just get a new OC and special teams coordinator.

 

[disco]

No, to me the obvious reason is that top recruits of all races are more likely to choose a school where their team is the top attraction in town, not one where their team plays in the shadow of a handful of pro sports that dominate media and fan attention. This is true for U of M basketball, too.

I've thought this as well over the years, but I've started to doubt this theory. Going back to 1990 or so, Georgia Tech, Washington, Colorado, USC, and Miami have all won some sort of recognized national championship, and they are all located in major metro areas where pro sports dominate. You could throw in TCU which won some minor poll in 2010, and even if you don't recognize that (I wouldn't) they did go 13-0.

It doesn't mean that this theory doesn't hold water, but I don't know if it's as valid as once thought. The weather here has also been suggested, but Madison, Evanston and Iowa City aren't much different.

And it's a level below, but NDSU gets good players to go to Fargo, and having lived there, the weather there is much worse than here.

 

[FanSinceTheFifties]

I've thought this as well over the years, but I've started to doubt this theory. Going back to 1990 or so, Georgia Tech, Washington, Colorado, USC, and Miami have all won some sort of recognized national championship, and they are all located in major metro areas where pro sports dominate. You could throw in TCU which won some minor poll in 2010, and even if you don't recognize that (I wouldn't) they did go 13-0.

It doesn't mean that this theory doesn't hold water, but I don't know if it's as valid as once thought. The weather here has also been suggested, but Madison, Evanston and Iowa City aren't much different.

And it's a level below, but NDSU gets good players to go to Fargo, and having lived there, the weather there is much worse than here.

Good points. And, yes, there are a few other markets that have some pro sports. Is there a smaller (or any) market that has NFL, NHL, MLB, NBA, WNBA, Minor League Baseball, Major League Soccer, major college basketball, football, hockey, a handful of other women's professional sports, and Going-to-the-Lake? Fan attention in Madison and Iowa City is much more sharply focused on the BiG football and basketball programs than in the TCs. Recruits have to see that and if they don't, I'm sure the recruiters are smart enough to show them. Having lived in both the TCs and in college towns, there is no comparison in the loyalty, enthusiasm, and numbers of fans. It's a reality. I think the Gophers do pretty well given this.

 

[FanSinceTheFifties]

And, if UM beats IU, UW, and a bowl opponent (and I think they can) that'd be a 9-4 season with a trophy win. We'd have to be happy with that. Lose these two and go to a meaningless bowl and we'd have to be unsatisfied. The team controls this.

 

[BBJones]

I've followed Gopher football since the 50s. Since the early sixties when the program ceased to be a national power, I watch interestedly but not emotionally as I don't expect us to be a top 20 team or to win trophy games very often. We have many recruiting obstacles and sadly, there's now another big one -- i.e. the dreadful reputation Mpls has. I enjoy watching the games and the program is the best it has been since the Mason era so each week I start each game thinking we CAN win but may not. I think Iowa and Wisconsin fans can watch thinking they WILL win each week. Call me loyal but rational. Be well.

I've read that opinion about black players. Couple of things that don't support that: 1. teams like Alabama, Tennessee, Texas, and Oklahoma were already strong years before integrated rosters. And 2. Why would the loss of the alleged advantage to Minnesota for recruiting black players not apply as well to Iowa and Wisconsin?

No, to me the obvious reason is that top recruits of all races are more likely to choose a school where their team is the top attraction in town, not one where their team plays in the shadow of a handful of pro sports that dominate media and fan attention. This is true for U of M basketball, too.

With regard to the recruitment of Black players, discochris is correct. Every major southern program was segregated in 1960. Fortunately for Minnesota, its coach, Murray Warmath, was not a racist. He recruited Bobby Bell. Seeing that, other Blacks, such as Sandy Stephens, Bill Munsey, Carl Eller, Aaron Brown, and Judge Dickson, soon followed. I don't know about Wisconsin, but when the Gophers played Iowa in 1960, the Hawkeyes were led by Wilburn Hollis, the first African-American to quarterback a Big Ten No. 1-ranked team. Iowa had 11 Black players on the team at that time. Sandy Stephens, by the way, became the first African-American to start and win a Rose Bowl. Would all of these players come north to MN or Iowa if they would have had the opportunity to play for their home schools? Probably not.

Once the southern schools opened up their programs to Black athletes, Minnesota had to compete with them and, sadly, could not. Over time, for many reasons (lack of facilities, weather, competition from pro sports, mediocre coaches), the Gophers have found it difficult to be much more than average.

 

[disco]

Good points. And, yes, there are a few other markets that have some pro sports. Is there a smaller (or any) market that has NFL, NHL, MLB, NBA, WNBA, Minor League Baseball, Major League Soccer, major college basketball, football, hockey, a handful of other women's professional sports, and Going-to-the-Lake? Fan attention in Madison and Iowa City is much more sharply focused on the BiG football and basketball programs than in the TCs. Recruits have to see that and if they don't, I'm sure the recruiters are smart enough to show them. Having lived in both the TCs and in college towns, there is no comparison in the loyalty, enthusiasm, and numbers of fans. It's a reality. I think the Gophers do pretty well given this.

The most similar markets to the Twin Cities are probably Denver and Seattle, but Seattle doesn't currently have an NBA team. (though one could argue that we don't either.)

 

[FanSinceTheFifties]

With regard to the recruitment of Black players, discochris is correct. Every major southern program was segregated in 1960. Fortunately for Minnesota, its coach, Murray Warmath, was not a racist. He recruited Bobby Bell. Seeing that, other Blacks, such as Sandy Stephens, Bill Munsey, Carl Eller, Aaron Brown, and Judge Dickson, soon followed. I don't know about Wisconsin, but when the Gophers played Iowa in 1960, the Hawkeyes were led by Wilburn Hollis, the first African-American to quarterback a Big Ten No. 1-ranked team. Iowa had 11 Black players on the team at that time. Sandy Stephens, by the way, became the first African-American to start and win a Rose Bowl. Would all of these players come north to MN or Iowa if they would have had the opportunity to play for their home schools? Probably not.

Once the southern schools opened up their programs to Black athletes, Minnesota had to compete with them and, sadly, could not. Over time, for many reasons (lack of facilities, weather, competition from pro sports, mediocre coaches), the Gophers have found it difficult to be much more than average.

But how does that explain why Iowa and Wisconsin were inferior to UM then and are now dominating us?

 

[FanSinceTheFifties]

The most similar markets to the Twin Cities are probably Denver and Seattle, but Seattle doesn't currently have an NBA team. (though one could argue that we don't either.)

Neither Colorado nor Washington are perennial powers like Wisconsin and Iowa.

 

[disco]

But how does that explain why Iowa and Wisconsin were inferior to UM then and are now dominating us?

Looking at the records from the 50's and 60's, all three schools had up and down years. It's not as if Minnesota completely dominated the conference then.

Why have Iowa and Wisconsin dominated us most years since? I think the biggest reason is stability - finding and keeping a good coach, which makes people want to play there. Iowa has had two head coaches since 1979. Wisconsin has had more, but Alvarez has basically run that program since 1990.

 

[disco]

Neither Colorado nor Washington aren't perennial powers like Wisconsin and Iowa.

Both won a national title in my lifetime. Minnesota hasn't come close.

 

[howeda7]

Being a Gopher football fan (and basically all MN sports) is the proverbial rolling a boulder up a mountain only to have it roll back over you before you reach the top. Rinse and repeat.

It might seem odd to bail out when the boulder is pretty high up the mountain. But I can see how seeing that's it's starting to sliding back down when you thought you finally had it might be the last straw for some.

 

[MplsGopher]

And 2. Why would the loss of the alleged advantage to Minnesota for recruiting black players not apply as well to Iowa and Wisconsin?

I don't agree that you can make this argument as a way to disprove the idea that being able to recruit Black student-athletes did help give the Gophers an advantage.

Objectively, it did.


What you can certainly say is, after that advantage fell away, Iowa and Wisconsin then did other things that (to this day...) have helped them remain relevant in football in the Big Ten, while Minnesota chose not to or did not do those same things.