2024 MN High School Football thread

[MNVCGUY]

Spot on. My kid's basketball team was on the losing side of a blowout last season. Opposing coach had to take one of their guys aside and tell him to stop chucking up threes or he was going to be benched for the rest of the day for being a poor sport.

I know when I was coaching a lot of youth sports I would much rather lose a close game then win in a blowout.

I mean don't get me wrong, winning is way better than losing but those blowouts just aren't fun. As a coach you almost certainly remember what it was like to be on the other side of the blowout so you want to be fair to your players while also not being a prick to the other team. Can be a tough balance to find sometimes and can be really tough to explain to the kids that even though they can dominate there are times in sports when you shouldn't.

 

[WoodburyTim]

It doesn't always work out that way, but every kid playing sports should be on both sides of this situation at least once. Teaches you a lot about how to respect opponents and win with class and lose with class. In close competitive games there usually isn't time to think about stuff like that.

 

[MNfootballfan]

It doesn't always work out that way, but every kid playing sports should be on both sides of this situation at least once. Teaches you a lot about how to respect opponents and win with class and lose with class. In close competitive games there usually isn't time to think about stuff like that.

I coached at a small school that was bad for a long time (20+ years) and we turned it around had some competitive teams. Maybe it was PTSD, but I found it harder to coach when we were good because I knew how it felt across the field and did not want to run the score up.

 

[swede2]

well, in the smaller classes, there may be a few close games - the 6 vs 3 and 5 vs 4 matchups - but it's hard to say there will be any "good" games.

a lot of the top-rated teams either have byes in the 1st round, or they're playing a #8 seed that went 0-8 or 1-7. most of the 8 vs 1 or 7 vs 2 games will be lopsided. a couple of the 6 vs 3 games might be competitive. and then you have the 5 vs 4 games where you have a lot of records like 4-4 and 5-3 facing each other.

sad to say, but in most sections, the first round is just something you have to get through in order to set up better matchups in the semis. if you're a higher seeded team, you want to rack up a big lead and pull the starters to make sure nobody gets hurt.

I have traditionally been on the side of "let everyone in the playoffs," but in recent years, the gap between the good teams and the bad teams has gotten wider to the point where I don't think anything is accomplished by having a 7 seed get beat up by the 2 seed.

I'm at the point now where I say no more than 6 teams advance in any section. if the 7 and 8 seeds want to play each other, great. I'd rather see that then some 63-0 rout.

3A (I believe) and 3AA gave #1 and #2 byes. #7 and #8 played in a non-advancing game.

 

[MaxyJR1]

3A (I believe) and 3AA gave #1 and #2 byes. #7 and #8 played in a non-advancing game.

I think 2AA, 3AA, and 3AAA did this.

 

[MaxyJR1]

x.com

x.com

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sorry I’m late to the party but these Wisconsin High School Football Playoff Seedings are WILD!!!</p>&mdash; Chad Henning (@CoachHenning75) <a href="">October 24, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[prespsguy]

x.com

x.com

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sorry I’m late to the party but these Wisconsin High School Football Playoff Seedings are WILD!!!</p>&mdash; Chad Henning (@CoachHenning75) <a href="">October 24, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Wisconsin seeds by a computer program and it's absurd. The team who has been ranked #1 all season in Division 3 are a 5-seed and must go on the road for their first playoff game.

 

[Ranger692]

Wisconsin seeds by a computer program and it's absurd. The team who has been ranked #1 all season in Division 3 are a 5-seed and must go on the road for their first playoff game.

Most sections in MN seed by computer program as well... a 9 man team that bumped up to section 6 in class 1A was the 6 seed in a 8 seed section because of some arbitrary reasoning as well

 

[MaxyJR1]

Wisconsin seeds by a computer program and it's absurd. The team who has been ranked #1 all season in Division 3 are a 5-seed and must go on the road for their first playoff game.

Probably should just let everyone that wants into the playoffs play.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Mountain Iron - Buhl beat Bigfork 91 to zero. Ouch.

Didn't realize they played last week and lost 76-6. Kudos to the Bigfork team for showing up and playing again. 91-0 six days later.

Still ridiculous that these playoff games are scheduled.

 

[disco]

Most sections in MN seed by computer program as well... a 9 man team that bumped up to section 6 in class 1A was the 6 seed in a 8 seed section because of some arbitrary reasoning as well

What now?

 

[Word]

x.com

x.com

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sorry I’m late to the party but these Wisconsin High School Football Playoff Seedings are WILD!!!</p>&mdash; Chad Henning (@CoachHenning75) <a href="">October 24, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

However you are posting Twitter links.....there's a lot of extra code coming along with it.

 

[MaxyJR1]

However you are posting Twitter links.....there's a lot of extra code coming along with it.

Not sure. Hit imbed and copy.

 

[dog mustard]

Not sure. Hit imbed and copy.

Just gotta copy the link from the browser and replace the X.com in the URL with Twitter.com when you paste it here

 

[swede2]

Here's something interesting. The Big 9 is a pretty historic conference in southern Minnesota. Look how it's split up for district football.

MSHSL Districts in which Big 9 teams are placed... Metro - South Mayo Northstar - South-Gold Mankato West, Mankato East Northstar - South-Maroon Northfield, Owatonna, Century, John Marshall Skyway - Platinum Austin, Faribault, Winona South Central - White Albert Lea Southeast - Red Red Wing

What the hell is this? Don't numbers exist at MSHSL?

 

[swede2]

obviously, there is no way to make this a rule - but, in a clear blowout, the winning team should pull its starters as soon as it becomes evident that the game is no contest.

I've heard the argument that "we need to give the kids enough reps to get them ready for the next round" and so forth. but in a game that one-sided, you're not getting quality reps.

about 30 years ago, there was a rule in Iowa where, if one team was 50 points ahead, the game ended. so I saw coaches who would pull their starters in the 2nd quarter to ensure that the game at least went into the second half.

I remember a playoff game I did on radio in Wisconsin. 1st play of the game, the favored team ran a basic fullback dive. went for 80 yards and a TD. I turned to my color man and said, "this game's over. the only thing left to decide is the final score." and I was right.

I think JCC was very good about calling off the dogs this year.

 

[Ranger692]

What now?

Most sections are seeded for MN playoffs by QRF, a computer algorithm that nobody knows how it works.

 

[Some guy]

Most sections are seeded for MN playoffs by QRF, a computer algorithm that nobody knows how it works.

People know how it works.
It is similar to an RPI formula

You get points for wins
You get points for opponents winning
You get a small number of points for wins of teams you lost to.
You average by number of games.


It’s basically RPI but it doesn’t take into account opponents SOS like RPI does

 

[State of Football]

People know how it works.
It is similar to an RPI formula

You get points for wins
You get points for opponents winning
You get a small number of points for wins of teams you lost to.
You average by number of games.


It’s basically RPI but it doesn’t take into account opponents SOS like RPI does

And head to head is a metric in the totality of their season

 

[HopHead]

My experience is dated (40 years ago) and from a small town in ND but I suspect it still holds true today for a lot of kids.

My senior year, our football team only won 2 games. We had a tough season of some close losses, some blowouts losses and a number of season-ending injuries to some pretty good players. At the end of the season we knew there was no way we would make the playoffs and we were absolutely fine with that.

I kind of feel bad for the number 8 seed teams. Basically, their bus ride to the first round playoff game is like livestock being taken to the slaughterhouse.

 

[Ranger692]

People know how it works.
It is similar to an RPI formula

You get points for wins
You get points for opponents winning
You get a small number of points for wins of teams you lost to.
You average by number of games.


It’s basically RPI but it doesn’t take into account opponents SOS like RPI does

I understand what MN scores says it is. There is something to be desired in the formula when playing teams in different classes. It also gets strange when you have a situation where 3 teams all play each other and have all three teams go 1-1 vs the other 2 teams.

The tie breaker margin is also an arbitrary number decided by what? Several teams with better records were seeded lower do to the tie breaker margin rules.

If you have more wins, and your QRF is higher, why are we going to another metric to decide a playoff seed?

But after a game and you look at scores you have no idea where you will be sitting on the next QRF post.

There should be a point differential addition to the formula. A 2 point loss should not be considered the same as a 20 point loss amongst like opponents. I assume this is the way it is to prevent a good team from running up the score. But that could be negated by a all wins over 20 points are the same so there isn't a team running it up to a 60 point win out of wanting a better QRF ranking.

 

[Some guy]

I understand what MN scores says it is. There is something to be desired in the formula when playing teams in different classes. It also gets strange when you have a situation where 3 teams all play each other and have all three teams go 1-1 vs the other 2 teams.

The tie breaker margin is also an arbitrary number decided by what? Several teams with better records were seeded lower do to the tie breaker margin rules.

If you have more wins, and your QRF is higher, why are we going to another metric to decide a playoff seed?

But after a game and you look at scores you have no idea where you will be sitting on the next QRF post.

There should be a point differential addition to the formula. A 2 point loss should not be considered the same as a 20 point loss amongst like opponents. I assume this is the way it is to prevent a good team from running up the score. But that could be negated by an all wins over 20 points are the same so there isn't a team running it up to a 60 point win out of wanting a better QRF ranking.

I didn’t say the formula was good, I just said people understand the formula.
Your response here proves my point

 

[short ornery norwegian]

when I was working in radio, I carried on an e-mail correspondence with the guy who runs MN Scores-net. I started out as being opposed to the QRF, but eventually came to accept it - if not love it.

the point on tie-breakers is this - if the formula has two teams ranked close enough to be within a certain margin of error, then other factors are taken into account. the first tiebreaker is head-to-head competition. the bottom line is that seeding is not based solely on the formula - other factors can be taken into account. the website has a really long explanation of how it works.

and, as many people have replied to me over the years when the question of seeding comes up - you still have to go out and win the game.

 

[Some guy]

when I was working in radio, I carried on an e-mail correspondence with the guy who runs MN Scores-net. I started out as being opposed to the QRF, but eventually came to accept it - if not love it.

the point on tie-breakers is this - if the formula has two teams ranked close enough to be within a certain margin of error, then other factors are taken into account. the first tiebreaker is head-to-head competition. the bottom line is that seeding is not based solely on the formula - other factors can be taken into account. the website has a really long explanation of how it works.

and, as many people have replied to me over the years when the question of seeding comes up - you still have to go out and win the game.

Would be a bigger deal if not everyone made the playoffs

 

[Ranger692]

Would be a bigger deal if not everyone made the playoffs

Depends on how you set that up. If you take the top half of teams in Record only. Then use the Qrf and other tie breakers as the way to qualify i dont see many cpmplaints. Now if you were to just take top 2 from each section is where things get crazy...

No sections and seed top 32 teams from each class.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Alright it's 6A Friday.

Who you got?

Maple Grove vs the Field?

 

[Ranger692]

when I was working in radio, I carried on an e-mail correspondence with the guy who runs MN Scores-net. I started out as being opposed to the QRF, but eventually came to accept it - if not love it.

the point on tie-breakers is this - if the formula has two teams ranked close enough to be within a certain margin of error, then other factors are taken into account. the first tiebreaker is head-to-head competition. the bottom line is that seeding is not based solely on the formula - other factors can be taken into account. the website has a really long explanation of how it works.

and, as many people have replied to me over the years when the question of seeding comes up - you still have to go out and win the game.

You do have to win the game.

Its easier to win home game for a home team who is 5-3 who is taking on a team who is 6-2 that has to get on a school buss at 10:30 and ride 2 hours to play a road playoff game

 

[Some guy]

Alright it's 6A Friday.

Who you got?

Maple Grove vs the Field?

The field.

Minnetonka is a good team. But I personally don’t think they’re one of the4 best. My top 5:
1) maple grove
2) shakopee
3) Edina
4) Eden prairie

And they were a few flukey plays from beating maple grove.

When every team is playing their best, I think the following teams COULD beat maple grove.

Lakeville North
Eagan
Lakeville South
Farmington
Moundsview
Forest lake
Minnetonka
Shakopee
Edina
Eden prairie
Prior lake
Wayzata

Maple grove probably the favorite. But all the teams I just listed together have chances that more likely to win it than just maple grove. A ton of parity this year. Maple grove could lose in second round to EP.

 

[MaxyJR1]

The field.

Minnetonka is a good team. But I personally don’t think they’re one of the4 best. My top 5:
1) maple grove
2) shakopee
3) Edina
4) Eden prairie

And they were a few flukey plays from beating maple grove.

When every team is playing their best, I think the following teams COULD beat maple grove.

Lakeville North
Eagan
Lakeville South
Farmington
Moundsview
Forest lake
Minnetonka
Shakopee
Edina
Eden prairie
Prior lake
Wayzata

Maple grove probably the favorite. But all the teams I just listed together have chances that more likely to win it than just maple grove. A ton of parity this year. Maple grove could lose in second round to EP.

Shakopee can do what Centennial does each year and likely better this year. Someone that can control the ball and score can beat MG. If you get cute it won't work IMO. Maple Grove has been without their RB for 3 weeks. Hopefully he gets back on the field.

 

[Some guy]

Shakopee can do what Centennial does each year and likely better this year. Someone that can control the ball and score can beat MG. If you get cute it won't work IMO. Maple Grove has been without their RB for 3 weeks. Hopefully he gets back on the field.

The problem with shakopee is they’re not usually stable enough on Defense to win that many games. And they wouldn’t see maple grove until the championship. Shakopee does have a nice draw though.

Shakopee to my knowledge has never made state semifinals.
Eagan has never made the state quarterfinals.

Will be interesting to see what (and if) new teams make the big stadium this year.