2023 MN High School Football season

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MinnGopher said:
Does anyone know the rules for getting moved up/down in class size or have a link to them? Might have been mentioned earlier but I am at game and can’t get search feature to work.
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Schools are reclassified every two years based on a formula of attendance adjusted for free/reduced lunch. Some private schools have moved up, but I don't know if there's a specific formula for moving down.
 

State of Football said:
Let’s reward for being bad? How about get better like Forest Lake, Eagan, and Coon Rapids? Their 5 A schedule would be no easier.
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Correct. Despite MG's blathering. Hopkins, Burnsville and Roseville are 6A schools. The formula is what it is, no matter what kind of bizarro opinions he spews here. And until that formula changes, that's how the system works.
 

disco said:
Schools are reclassified every two years based on a formula of attendance adjusted for free/reduced lunch. Some private schools have moved up, but I don't know if there's a specific formula for moving down.
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Interesting, I thought there was an enrollment multiplier based on previous success but not sure exactly how or what sports. Thanks for the info.
 

MinnGopher said:
Interesting, I thought there was an enrollment multiplier based on previous success but not sure exactly how or what sports. Thanks for the info.
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No, I'm not aware of any merit-based promotion/relegation system.
 

Prep Bowl Results

Friday, Nov 24
1A - Minneota 43 Springfield 22
--Minneota with its 9th State Championship / Springfield its 2nd runner-up

2A - Eden Valley-Watkins 24, Barnesville 6
--EV-Watkins with its 2nd State Title / Barnesville its 4th runner-up.

4A - Rocori vs Hutchinson 14, Rocori 6
--Hutchinson with its 7th State Title / Rocori its 3rd runner-up

6A - Centennial 28, Edina 27
Centennial wins its 1st State Title / Edina its 1st runner-up finish


Games on Saturday, Nov 25
9pl - Kingsland vs Nevis - 10am
Kingsland #5 - 4th app. 2 Titles - 1 runner-up
Nevis #3 - 6th app. No titles - 1 runner-up

3A - Stewartville vs Annandale - 1pm
Stewartville #1 - 7th app. No Titles - 2 runners-up
Annandale #3 - 6th app. No Titles - No runners-up.

5A - St. Thomas Academy vs Chanhassen - 4pm
St. Thomas Academy #6 - 27th app. - 5 runners-up
Chanhassen #1 - 1st app - No Titles - No runners-up
 


Generally you cannot move down in class, and you cannot be forced to move up; only moves allowed are voluntarily moving up. There is a limited avenue for appeal seeking to move down if your free/reduced lunch percentage is over 50%, or you're within 10% of the class size cutoff; my sense after talking with an AD is that this is almost never successful.
 

How heartbreaking.

4th and goal for Kingsland with 2 minutes left...clearly a TD for Kingsland but the officials made the wrong call. Then Replay made the wrong call. And after a moment of objection, the broadcast crew decided that controversy is undesirable.

But no matter what, Kingsland should have been awarded the TD.

:'(
 


You can't blame the kid for trying to score in the moment . . .but if the Chan player goes down on the 5 on the long TD instead of scoring they can probably run out the clock.
 



xyz1 said:
You can't blame the kid for trying to score in the moment . . .but if the Chan player goes down on the 5 on the long TD instead of scoring they can probably run out the clock.
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Good call, entertaining game. Some really good players
 

That Savion Hart does not have more college options so far just bewilders me. The guy moves laterally like a video game character.
 

and we wrap up the 2023 MN HS FB Season --

Games on Saturday, Nov 25
9pl - Nevis 14, Kingsland 12
Nevis wins its 1st state title / Kingsland with its 2nd runner-up finish.

3A - Stewartville 43, Annandale 13
Stewartville wins its 1st State Title / Annandale its first runner-up finish.

5A - Chanhassen 34, St. Thomas Academy 31 (OT)
Chanhassen wins its 1st State Title - St. Thomas Academy runner-up for the 6th time

(if you missed it)
Friday, Nov 24
1A - Minneota 43 Springfield 22
--Minneota with its 9th State Championship / Springfield its 2nd runner-up

2A - Eden Valley-Watkins 24, Barnesville 6
--EV-Watkins with its 2nd State Title / Barnesville its 4th runner-up.

4A - Rocori vs Hutchinson 14, Rocori 6
--Hutchinson with its 7th State Title / Rocori its 3rd runner-up

6A - Centennial 28, Edina 27
Centennial wins its 1st State Title / Edina its 1st runner-up finish

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Some very fun games. 4 of the 7 games decided by 1 TD margins.
-- I thought Kingsland scored a TD late in the 9pl game, but replay apparently decided there was not sufficient "clear and obvious" video evidence to overturn the call made by the refs on the field.
--Rocori/Hutch was a slug-fest. two really good defenses
--Centennial/Edina was an entertaining game. Kudos to Edina for going for the 2pt-er to win.
--Chanhassen/STA was IMHO the best game of the weekend. big-time players making big-time plays
--Stewartville and Minneota were the two most dominant teams.
--didn't see much of the EVW game with Barnesville, but EVW must be a solid team.
 

One of the best Prep Bowls I can remember. Games were mostly in time and very competitive.

It’s amazing how much more creative those teams OC’s are than our Gooher staff. They could learn a lot.
 



everybody knows my name said:
How heartbreaking.

4th and goal for Kingsland with 2 minutes left...clearly a TD for Kingsland but the officials made the wrong call. Then Replay made the wrong call. And after a moment of objection, the broadcast crew decided that controversy is undesirable.

But no matter what, Kingsland should have been awarded the TD.

:'(
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I agree, seemed pretty obvious the football broke the plane of the goal line. Kingsland deserved better from replay officials.
 

xyz1 said:
Generally you cannot move down in class, and you cannot be forced to move up; only moves allowed are voluntarily moving up. There is a limited avenue for appeal seeking to move down if your free/reduced lunch percentage is over 50%, or you're within 10% of the class size cutoff; my sense after talking with an AD is that this is almost never successful.
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You’re spot on. You need to have a very valid reason to moving down. Just being the smallest school in a class isn’t it because someone will always be the smallest and no matter how you split it someone has to be the smallest in a class.
 





Could easily accomplish that without holding section tournaments.

Those should be abolished.

You simply give an auto-bid to at least one team/individual from each section, then expand state tournaments with additional at-large.

Easy. Correct
 

MplsGopher said:
Could easily accomplish that without holding section tournaments.

Those should be abolished.

You simply give an auto-bid to at least one team/individual from each section, then expand state tournaments with additional at-large.

Easy. Correct
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Eliminating games for so many teams is not a good idea for football when it’s already the fewest number of contests.

Hard to fault their tournament this past year’s tournament.
 

You give everyone an extra regular season game/match. Done. Solved.

For half the teams in the state, that’s all they would’ve gotten anyway.
 

also from John Millea:

from FB proposal - 9-player through 5A would seed State Quarterfinals by 1-4 North and 1-4 South.
North & South determined when sections are aligned by FB Advisory and tournament director. Semi-finals would match Highest Quarter-final seed from the North vs the lower seed from the South and the Highest remaining seed from the South against the lower seed from the North.

that actually doesn't sound too bad. give the HS league their desired Geographic representation while addressing travel issues, but brings it closer to a real tournament feel.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
also from John Millea:

from FB proposal - 9-player through 5A would seed State Quarterfinals by 1-4 North and 1-4 South.
North & South determined when sections are aligned by FB Advisory and tournament director. Semi-finals would match Highest Quarter-final seed from the North vs the lower seed from the South and the Highest remaining seed from the South against the lower seed from the North.

that actually doesn't sound too bad. give the HS league their desired Geographic representation while addressing travel issues, but brings it closer to a real tournament feel.
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This makes sense but is a baby step in that it still doesn't help sections that have 2-3 top 10 teams. However, with the goal of all regions being represented in state, this is likely the next step. Likely won't be until Spring for approval.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
This makes sense but is a baby step in that it still doesn't help sections that have 2-3 top 10 teams. However, with the goal of all regions being represented in state, this is likely the next step. Likely won't be until Spring for approval.
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This is exactly the problem with the MSHSL. They don't care about the best team winning state UNLESS it's 6A football. The football coaches were told directly that 6A playoffs is and WILL BE different than for all other levels. But of course when 6A schools were bitching about not being able to fill schedules, they forced every class into the current district football system. Another example of whatever the metro wants, the metro gets.

So there is no "fix" to the 2-3 top teams in the same section. The MSHSL DOES NOT CARE about that unless it's 6A.
 

Gopherwatcher said:
This is exactly the problem with the MSHSL. They don't care about the best team winning state UNLESS it's 6A football. The football coaches were told directly that 6A playoffs is and WILL BE different than for all other levels. But of course when 6A schools were bitching about not being able to fill schedules, they forced every class into the current district football system. Another example of whatever the metro wants, the metro gets.

So there is no "fix" to the 2-3 top teams in the same section. The MSHSL DOES NOT CARE about that unless it's 6A.
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Most of 6a didn’t want 6a
When you say what 6a wanted you’re actually talking about what a small handful of schools in 6a wanted. Not the whole thing.
 

Because, the true actual thing is:

there are only really 10-15 schools, in the metro suburbs, that have no business playing any other school in the state. Way too big, way too rich. Completely unfair advantage over anyone outside that group.


That’s what the real split-off should have been/should be. But they didn’t have the balls to make it that small, and forced it to be 32.
 

as the MSHSL has made abundantly clear, geographic representation is one of their core values.

6A is different because almost all 6A schools are in the same relative geographic area. It really is - more or less - the "big metro schools" class.

5A has a majority of teams in the greater metro area, but it does have teams in outstate MN.

4A and below are state-wide classes with teams in all regions of the state.

Look - if I ran the MSHSL, I would get rid of one class of 11-man and redistribute the teams. try to have 8 teams in every section if possible. also dump the districts and go to section scheduling. If Iowa can make it work, MN can make it work.

but no matter what system you have, some teams are going to be better than other teams. some teams are going to win more often. you cannot legislate that. and I don't believe in penalizing success.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
as the MSHSL has made abundantly clear, geographic representation is one of their core values.

6A is different because almost all 6A schools are in the same relative geographic area. It really is - more or less - the "big metro schools" class.

5A has a majority of teams in the greater metro area, but it does have teams in outstate MN.

4A and below are state-wide classes with teams in all regions of the state.

Look - if I ran the MSHSL, I would get rid of one class of 11-man and redistribute the teams. try to have 8 teams in every section if possible. also dump the districts and go to section scheduling. If Iowa can make it work, MN can make it work.

but no matter what system you have, some teams are going to be better than other teams. some teams are going to win more often. you cannot legislate that. and I don't believe in penalizing success.
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I like the current system with one change. State starts at 16 teams and cross over seeding, so the top 2 in each section are in state.
 

It’s not a “penalty” to move someone up a class if the class they’re in now is unfair.


If you’re even going to bother handing out more than one state champion trophy in a sport ….. then do it right and base classes on fairness of competitiveness!!! Duh!!! That’s the only point of having divisions/classes in high school!
 

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