2023 MN High School Football season

When I played, my team was class C and we played in a mixed C/B conference ( although a B team seemed to drop to C each year). The nearest 9 man teams were out on the fringes, Hills Beaver Creek, Chokio Alberta, etc. Now, the schools from my old conference, mine included, are largely 9 man, even after cooping.
Most I remember back then were WAY up in NW Minnesota. Norman County West, Ulen-Hitterdal, Ada-Borup etc.

I went to college with a guy who played 9-man for Silver Lake when they were a state powerhouse. I have to think that must have been the closest 9-man school to the Twin Cities ever.
 



I'm streaming Wayzata - Hopkins.

Hopkins is discussed a lot here obviously. But this team is incredibly bad. Like, remarkably bad.
It's currently 49-6 at the start of the 4th quarter, and remember, this is a Wayzata team with one win going into tonight. (as I type, Wayzata just scored again)

The team is awful, but there are some little things I've noticed.
Their coaching staff seems small. The players on the sidelines are undisciplined, wandering around, screwing around. It's at Hopkins and it seems like the Hopkins students, from the sound feed, are actively rooting for Wayzata to see how many points they can score.

One of the things I noticed when I started to go to games again, because my kid is in the youth program and I coach, is that 6A football is more like college ball in some ways.
Every 6A team I've seen has video coordinators and when the offense is on the field, the defense is watching replays of the previous series on 65" monitors - sometimes under a canopy (and vice versa). There are exercise bikes on the sidelines to keep guys loose like in college. Kicking nets. etc.

Hopkins has NONE of this. A couple water jugs and that's it. This is not a serious 6A program. Not in the slightest. Those things I mentioned are table stakes at this point in large high school football. They look like a 1980's program playing against a modern team.
 
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Buffalo took relief and is 5-2 in 6A. They will still get seeded lower than their record.

They lost the two games. 48-7 to Eden Prairie and 61-21 to Minnetonka. Not sure the 5-2 helps the program


Talking about classes, tennis still has 2 classes. This is the final 4 from section play for girl’s tennis.

“This season marked the third straight year that the Section 2AA final four schools were, in the order of number of enrolled students, Minnetonka (3,348), Prior Lake (2,655), Eden Prairie (2,479) and St. Peter (606). The Saints are the 124th largest school in Class AA, compared to Minnetonka, Prior Lake and Eden Prairie at No. 1, 3 and 8 respectively.”

From the article they are pushing for a third class. St. Peter has lost to Minnetonka three strait years. The success is found in winning more games each year. Games, not matches.
 


I played in a very competitive conference of mostly class B schools. Two communities. Within two years after my graduation, it was three communities but still class B (the equivalent of a large 2A or smaller 3A team today).

Now? Same three communities are scraping by at class A.

There has been so much said and written about the iron range over the years (and deservedly so). Boom and mostly bust with the mining industry.

But what has happened in southern MN has been equally dramatic, perhaps even more so.

In the 60’s it may have been a family of 5 or six working 120 acres of farmland, with the need to continually run to town to buy hardware, jeans, groceries etc.

Now? It is a family of 3 working 1500 acres or more and ordering from Amazon.

I shrug every time I hear the question of what are we going to do about the iron range, as a much larger segment of Minnesota culture dies a continual slow death.
 

some scores-- a number of (on paper) upsets Friday. Wet conditions may have played a role.

9-player:
(Thurs) #1 Mountain Iron-Buhl (7-0) beats #3 Cherry (6-1) 28-6
(Fri) #6 Kingsland (7-0) beat #10 Spring Grove (5-2) 38-13.
--- #4 Nevis (7-0) beat Verndale (5-2) 57-6

1A:
(Thurs) #8 in 2A -Norwood-Young America (7-0) beats #7 in 1A Mayer Lutheran (5-2) 12-6.

2A:
(Fri) #3 Eden Valley-Watkins (7-0) beats Kimball Area (5-2) 18-6
- upset - Dover-Eyota (4-3) beats #7 Chatfield (5-2) 23-8

3A:
(Fri) #2 Esko (7-0) beats (4A) Hermantown (5-2) 41-7. PJ Fleck in attendance watching Koi Perich

4A:
(Fri) #2 Orono (7-0) beats #4 Totino-Grace (5-2) 31-7
-- #5 Hutchinson (5-2) beats #3 Princeton (6-1) 40-8

5A:
(Fri) #7 Andover (6-1) beats #5 Sauk Rapids-Rice (6-1) 29-8
-- #3 Mankato West (6-1) beats Mankato East (2-5) 21-20

6A: (4 of the top 10 ranked teams lose)
(Fri) #4 Minnetonka (6-1) beats #9 Buffalo (5-2) 61-21
-- Prior Lake (3-4) beats #10 Woodbury (4-3) 39-13
-- Edina (4-3) beats #6 Stillwater Area (5-2) 14-7
-- Shakopee (4-3) beats #8 Rosemount (4-3) 35-12

regular season wraps up next week. Section seedings come out next Thursday.
 

@disco

One correction: not "large high school football", rather "large money high school football".
 

I don't even think the Gophers watch video replays of the current game on the sidelines??? I don't think I've ever been to a football game where there were large TV screens on the sidelines. That's a new one to me. When you're as rich as Tonka and Wayzata, I guess you spare no expense.

Maybe there are rules against that in the NCAA?

I think for a long time in the NFL you weren't allowed to have video on the sidelines, you just had to print out pictures. Now they all have tablets, but I don't know if those are allowed to show video or it's just digital stills.
 



I played in a very competitive conference of mostly class B schools. Two communities. Within two years after my graduation, it was three communities but still class B (the equivalent of a large 2A or smaller 3A team today).

Now? Same three communities are scraping by at class A.

There has been so much said and written about the iron range over the years (and deservedly so). Boom and mostly bust with the mining industry.

But what has happened in southern MN has been equally dramatic, perhaps even more so.

In the 60’s it may have been a family of 5 or six working 120 acres of farmland, with the need to continually run to town to buy hardware, jeans, groceries etc.

Now? It is a family of 3 working 1500 acres or more and ordering from Amazon.

I shrug every time I hear the question of what are we going to do about the iron range, as a much larger segment of Minnesota culture dies a continual slow death.
This is a great summary of what's happening outstate. I grew up in a town that was a Class B fixture at state in the 80s/90s. Considered a "big" Class B school I believe, now scraping by at Class A and roughly 50-60% the enrollment of 30 years ago, while the town itself is down roughly 10-15% in population. Families of 4+ children are simply not the norm anymore, and efficiencies in farming technology don't require the labor force they once did.
 

@disco

One correction: not "large high school football", rather "large money high school football".
Have you ever been to Hopkins' athletic complex? It's not what one might refer to as poor or lacking. It's impressive.
 

this is just me thinking off the top of my head, but:

what if the state had two divisions of 9-man (or 9-player if you prefer):

a 'small-school division' for programs with enrollment of 150 or fewer - the 'traditional' 9-player limit, and

a 'large-school division' for programs with more than 150 who "opt down" to go 9-player.

that would give struggling programs an option to continue playing football without being forced to co-op. in my experience, one of the biggest issues for struggling programs is a lack of depth on the O-line and D-line, forcing players to go both ways, and by the 4th qtr they are beat up and gassed.

9-player directly addresses that issue by eliminating two positions on the O-Line.

just a thought (but it's probably too far "out of the box" for the MSHSL to ever consider.......)
I agree 100% that 2 classes of 9-man NEEDS to happen, BUT there still has to be enrollment ranges for each. Currently it's 150 and below for 9-man before appeals. I am not sure you could just say 150 and above for the other class. You might end up with a school of 160 enrollment up against a school of 500 enrollment (could happen). The MSHSL's position for football has always been they don't want schools twice the enrollment playing each other.

And playing a 9-man schedule and then trying to play an 11-man playoff game is a nightmare. I've experienced it first-hand. The two games are VERY different. Especially on defense.

Honestly, I think football is slowly dying. I've talked with coaches from across the state that are seeing the same thing in their schools. Boys just don't want to participate in a tough, physical sport anymore. We have legislated toughness and aggression out of kids across the country, and I don't think it's a good thing for the future.
 

Ah. I think you're right. Minnesota Valley Lutheran was in there too, I think. That's where I got Minnesota Valley.
It was called the Southern Minnesota Conference for a long time. A mix of Red Rock and Tomahawk schools playing football.

MVL left for a while to play in the Gopher Conference since they teetered between A and AA but re-joined SMC a couple years before the district model.
 



Buffalo took relief and is 5-2 in 6A. They will still get seeded lower than their record.

They lost the two games. 48-7 to Eden Prairie and 61-21 to Minnetonka. Not sure the 5-2 helps the program
Eastview is in that division with Buffalo as well. Sitting at 4-3 with 4 wins over other teams in that division, 1 loss to Buffalo and then loses to Rosemount and Lakeville South. In the games against South and Rosemount - Eastview was outscored 87-0.

Good to see those struggling programs get a chance to go against lesser competition but it definitely leads to some inflated records based on getting to play a schedule full of other bad teams and being the best of the worst.
 

Honestly, I think football is slowly dying. I've talked with coaches from across the state that are seeing the same thing in their schools. Boys just don't want to participate in a tough, physical sport anymore. We have legislated toughness and aggression out of kids across the country, and I don't think it's a good thing for the future.
The big problem I see with football is that it's a short season sport, while other sports have more or less become year-round if you want to play at a high level. Basketball players are playing club/AAU ball year round. Hockey is year round. Baseball isn't year-round (because of the climate here), but it's a good 6-7 months. Soccer is year round too.

At the youth level, we have had ONE football practice where every player was there. A big reason for that is hockey - late summer league games and then tryouts. Baseball, hoops and soccer too.
And parents invest big, big money for their kids to play hockey, and to play in ultra-competitive club teams in other sports. Based on the time and money investment alone, football will always take a back seat for these kids and families.

Coaches claim they want well-rounded athletes. No they don't. They absolutely expect you to put their sport above and beyond anything else.
 

Coaches claim they want well-rounded athletes. No they don't. They absolutely expect you to put their sport above and beyond anything else.
This is true of everyone except football coaches.

But football coaches need their basketball coach to tell them to be multi sport
When the football coach says it, it doesn’t really make an impact. Football is the non cut sport. Football is the sport that can’t be choosers because to compete for state titles you need 20-40 guys who are good athletes (at least in the top few classes).
 

Problem is that most skilled position players in MN don’t see football as their first sport of choice or dedication. They play their other sports year round.

Our HS 9th graders are playing fall basketball already during their season.
 

The big problem I see with football is that it's a short season sport, while other sports have more or less become year-round if you want to play at a high level. Basketball players are playing club/AAU ball year round. Hockey is year round. Baseball isn't year-round (because of the climate here), but it's a good 6-7 months. Soccer is year round too.

At the youth level, we have had ONE football practice where every player was there. A big reason for that is hockey - late summer league games and then tryouts. Baseball, hoops and soccer too.
And parents invest big, big money for their kids to play hockey, and to play in ultra-competitive club teams in other sports. Based on the time and money investment alone, football will always take a back seat for these kids and families.

Coaches claim they want well-rounded athletes. No they don't. They absolutely expect you to put their sport above and beyond anything else.
This is also a major problem for football. You're right that parents are investing huge money into those other sports. All for the chance at that scholarship that honestly isn't coming for most of them.

All we ask of our players in the off-season is to work out and do some speed work so they become bigger and faster. Coincidentally, those things will also help them in those other sports, but we still have some old school coaches who don't think that strength training is important in sports like basketball and baseball.

Oh, and we also ask for maybe 3-4 7-on-7 games during the summer.
 

This is also a major problem for football. You're right that parents are investing huge money into those other sports. All for the chance at that scholarship that honestly isn't coming for most of them.

All we ask of our players in the off-season is to work out and do some speed work so they become bigger and faster. Coincidentally, those things will also help them in those other sports, but we still have some old school coaches who don't think that strength training is important in sports like basketball and baseball.

Oh, and we also ask for maybe 3-4 7-on-7 games during the summer.
It's not even for the unlikely scholarship. I'm sure there are some who believe that, but in a lot of cases, especially at big suburban schools, if you even want to sniff a chance to play in high school you're going to be expected to participate in every single off-season league, drill, camp, etc.

My kid is playing rec-level basketball this winter as he has since 2nd grade. Because I know the chance of him playing high school hoops at a school the size of Wayzata is slim to none. I just want him to have fun and he likes it. I told him if he wanted to tryout for traveling (he'd be borderline for making a team) I'd support him, but he said no, he wants to go skiing and stuff too. But I know parents who are "traveling or nothing" going so far as getting their kid into other traveling programs when Wayzata cut them. I suspect a lot of that is status-chasing parents.
 

Also - 7 on 7 (or 5 on 5) flag spring and summer leagues are a LOT of fun. I coached that last spring too.
 

Eastview is in that division with Buffalo as well. Sitting at 4-3 with 4 wins over other teams in that division, 1 loss to Buffalo and then loses to Rosemount and Lakeville South. In the games against South and Rosemount - Eastview was outscored 87-0.

Good to see those struggling programs get a chance to go against lesser competition but it definitely leads to some inflated records based on getting to play a schedule full of other bad teams and being the best of the worst.
Roseville played with white bear lake. But here is some analysis of the relief teams:

The group of 6 against non relief teams
5-0 Buffalo 0-2 109-28
4-1 Eastview 0-2 87-0
3-2 park 0-2 76-31
2-3 Burnsville 0-2 86-18
1-4 Roseville 0-2 65-21
0-5 Hopkins 0-2 128-22

Relief teams are 0-12
Average score:
Non relief team 46 relief team 10

Relief teams have played 1 1 score game vs non relief teams.
2 games within 2 scores.
The top relief team lost by 50 to a 2-5 team.
The second best relief team hasn’t scored a point against non relief teams.
 
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The big problem I see with football is that it's a short season sport, while other sports have more or less become year-round if you want to play at a high level. Basketball players are playing club/AAU ball year round. Hockey is year round. Baseball isn't year-round (because of the climate here), but it's a good 6-7 months. Soccer is year round too.
The local high school lost their backup QB to fall baseball. Baseball is year round, even if games aren't played. Indoor facilities for batting, fielding, throwing etc. are prevalent, even out state.

Hockey is the worst. Sid was right about it being a cult. My neighbor's kid, as a freshman, is the new backup varsity QB. But several times a week he's off to hockey practice.

FB also had the disadvantage of age of introduction. 3-4 year olds are skating and playing soccer. When does FB start for just kids?

The worst part of all this is that parents are deciding for their kids what sports they'll play at a young age and more or less locking them in and at the same time, locking kids out who don't participate early. I wrestled in elementary school and didn't play organized basketball until 7th grade. I ended up starting varsity part way through my 10th grade year. Something like that wouldn't be impossible today, but very difficult. But back then, the other kids weren't that ahead.
 

The local high school lost their backup QB to fall baseball. Baseball is year round, even if games aren't played. Indoor facilities for batting, fielding, throwing etc. are prevalent, even out state.

Hockey is the worst. Sid was right about it being a cult. My neighbor's kid, as a freshman, is the new backup varsity QB. But several times a week he's off to hockey practice.

FB also had the disadvantage of age of introduction. 3-4 year olds are skating and playing soccer. When does FB start for just kids?

The worst part of all this is that parents are deciding for their kids what sports they'll play at a young age and more or less locking them in and at the same time, locking kids out who don't participate early. I wrestled in elementary school and didn't play organized basketball until 7th grade. I ended up starting varsity part way through my 10th grade year. Something like that wouldn't be impossible today, but very difficult. But back then, the other kids weren't that ahead.
Hockey is brutal but so is basketball and soccer. Soccer is more specialized than any toot seems in MN. Plus we suck at it at the National level for the men.
 

Does anyone know who has the longest losing streak in MN? Before or after realignment?
Jack Jones - do a Google search using Glenville, MN and Sports Illustrated. This will take you to a 1985 article, featuring Glenville and what was a 64 game losing streak at the time it was written.
 

Hockey is brutal but so is basketball and soccer. Soccer is more specialized than any toot seems in MN. Plus we suck at it at the National level for the men.
Football and the concussion/injury fear along along with other sports seasons expansion are a factor more than a problem.

Our school still gets 70+ kids out for 9th and 10th grade each. It drops to about 70-80 for varsity. Kids are participating but not all the best players are choosing to play multiple sports.
 

This is also a major problem for football. You're right that parents are investing huge money into those other sports. All for the chance at that scholarship that honestly isn't coming for most of them.

All we ask of our players in the off-season is to work out and do some speed work so they become bigger and faster. Coincidentally, those things will also help them in those other sports, but we still have some old school coaches who don't think that strength training is important in sports like basketball and baseball.

Oh, and we also ask for maybe 3-4 7-on-7 games during the summer.
Spending is not the same as investing
99.9% of parents aren’t getting returns on their “investment”
At least not financially
 

I grew up in New Jersey and went to high school from 1960-1964; my graduating class was 300+. It was football in fall, basketball in winter, and baseball in spring. There was cross country in fall. There was no hockey. There was wrestling in the winter. The spring didn't offer lacrosse, just baseball and track/field. Students didn't specialize. But we had some great athletes. One comes to mind, a year ahead of me. All State first team OL. State Champion wrestler. All State first team catcher. He also competed in track and field in his spare time, setting state records in the shot put and discus. He didn't specialize.
 
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It's not even for the unlikely scholarship. I'm sure there are some who believe that, but in a lot of cases, especially at big suburban schools, if you even want to sniff a chance to play in high school you're going to be expected to participate in every single off-season league, drill, camp, etc.

My kid is playing rec-level basketball this winter as he has since 2nd grade. Because I know the chance of him playing high school hoops at a school the size of Wayzata is slim to none. I just want him to have fun and he likes it. I told him if he wanted to tryout for traveling (he'd be borderline for making a team) I'd support him, but he said no, he wants to go skiing and stuff too. But I know parents who are "traveling or nothing" going so far as getting their kid into other traveling programs when Wayzata cut them. I suspect a lot of that is status-chasing parents.
Your kid will be mentally healthier because this is your attitude

This is also why football is one if the best sports for a kid to play. Less of that
 

Hockey is brutal but so is basketball and soccer. Soccer is more specialized than any toot seems in MN. Plus we suck at it at the National level for the men.
I can't even begin to understand how competitive soccer works. My kid played rec for a few years. I looked into the developmental/competitive programs. Expensive as anything else, and super confusing how the levels and teams work.

Our neighbor paid $1600 (I think) for their 4th grader to play in the developmental program. That doesn't include an extra couple hundred bucks for the uniforms, socks etc.
 

Jack Jones - do a Google search using Glenville, MN and Sports Illustrated. This will take you to a 1985 article, featuring Glenville and what was a 64 game losing streak at the time it was written.
I did thanks. How about at present. Anyone know which school. Is experiencing the longest losing into todays season.?
 




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