2023 MN High School Football season

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Wayzata drops to 1-5 with a loss to Prior Lake, 21-17.
In other former power program news, Cretin-DH drops to 1-5 with a 34-18 loss to Mahtomedi.

Since someone asked, Wayzata plays Hopkins next week, which will probably be their only other win of the year.
 

swede2 said:
I get that some schools are having a hard time scheduling a full slate of games and that was part of the impetus for wiping out conferences and going to sections but it seems like the result is taking the misery of a few and spreading it to all. With traditional conferences, it seems most were able to schedule and play who they wanted to play with, even if they weren't in the same class. When I played, our conference was a mix of C and B teams and very often, the conference champ was a C team. I'm not sure the toothpaste could be put back in the tube now, though. I doubt smaller schools in 2023 would agree to conferencing with larger schools.

It seems to me that, at least with the smaller, outstate schools, it's really become feast or famine. You're really good at FB or really bad. Fewer close games and lots of blowouts. In smaller schools it's about participation and very cyclical.
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It's feast or famine even in 5A, for teams in the outer metro area.

I went to and still follow Northfield, Sec 1/5A. Going back to the start of last year including playoffs, they are 9-7 overall, and tonight played just their 4th game decided by less than a TD. They beat New Prague 22-19. The other 3 were close defeats all to Owatonna.

The win tonight likely gives them Home field in the Section Semis, to set up another rematch against Owatonna in the Section Final.

The other 12 games were all decided by more than 17 points (3 scores) and several (W or L) were running time. Mankato West, in the same class, has shut them out twice by more than 40. Also were trounced by Chaska last week.

In those 12 games that were 3 scores, all but 1 the eventual outcome was really settled well before halftime.
 

Roseville is not a huge school. :ROFLMAO:

(Neither is Mounds View, for that matter)


Maybe compared to some little farm town, or a private school, sure.
 



Question : Mankato West seems to be one of the best teams in the state every year but seldom here of many DI players coming out of there. Maybe there has been and I just didn't catch it.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I think that - beyond simple enrollment - the broader issue is competitiveness.

some of the football district committees at lower levels have begun to take that into consideration.

there are schools in my area of SW MN that should be 2A by enrollment, but the districts are allowing them to play mostly 1A schedules - because they were not competitive against 2A schools and the continual losing was killing the programs through attrition.

it's a vicious cycle - team can't win - players aren't having any fun - they quit and younger players don't go out - numbers drop - and the team can't win due to lower numbers. so the district agreed to give some programs a chance to rebuild by playing a more competitive schedule. also worth noting that it impacts the JV program as well by giving those kids a chance to play competitive opponents and see what winning feels like.

of course, when section tournaments roll around, these schools have to face 2A schools again and will be huge underdogs. but at least the players got to enjoy some success in the regular season, and hopefully that is enough to keep kids out and generate more interest at the Junior High level.

now - does that translate to the 5A or 6A level? I can't answer that, having never played in that sandbox.
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This is the thing with many sports in high school now, football in particular. It's a physically demanding sport, and requires toughness (both physical and mental) and more and more kids today don't seem to have either. Been coaching for more than 20 years at small schools and am seeing the divide between the haves and have nots grow wider and wider. Our school used to be a have, but with enrollment going down and schools around us growing, we fell behind athletically, and it's so hard to recover once that snowball starts rolling downhill.

I don't think there's an easy solution to any of this because once you start choosing someone to be a winner, you are also choosing someone else to be a loser. Let one 6A school go down, and now you have to move someone up to take their place who now gets to be that "loser".

On a different note, I see a few people saying that eliminating the 6A class would fix things. How so? Make even more smaller schools play the "mega-schools" in the Metro? Coming from only a small school background, can someone explain how it fixes things?
 

huge
adjective
extremely large; enormous.

That's like 800 per class or higher. Very few in Minnesota are like that, maybe a handful or less.
 

@Gopherwatcher solid post.

I say 6A is too big. It should really just be a special split off for the very big and upper middle class or higher income public schools and the elite privates with great programs that want to opt-up (not sure any are there, right now, but in the past would be valid like CDH in the heyday). That's really like maybe 20 or so schools total in the state, all in the Twin Cities suburbs. Most certainly less than 32.
 



MNSpaniel said:
Question : Mankato West seems to be one of the best teams in the state every year but seldom here of many DI players coming out of there. Maybe there has been and I just didn't catch it.
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One time Gophrr QB and curb stomper Phil Nelson. I think they might have had a fellow or two up at NDSU. Don't we have a WR commit from there right now? Current QB recieved FCS attention but commited to Bemidji State.
 

MplsGopher said:
@Gopherwatcher solid post.

I say 6A is too big. It should really just be a special split off for the very big and upper middle class or higher income public schools and the elite privates with great programs that want to opt-up (not sure any are there, right now, but in the past would be valid like CDH in the heyday). That's really like maybe 20 or so schools total in the state, all in the Twin Cities suburbs. Most certainly less than 32.
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Thanks for the clarification. I see those schools and think that they are ALL huge with our class sizes in the 30s and 40s.

Maybe a top class of 16 or 24? The problem is always the cut-off lines make those right on them either really happy or really upset. I know that our schools have sometimes been the biggest school in a class or the smallest school in a class. Just random luck where you end up sometimes.
 

Gopherwatcher said:
On a different note, I see a few people saying that eliminating the 6A class would fix things. How so? Make even more smaller schools play the "mega-schools" in the Metro? Coming from only a small school background, can someone explain how it fixes things?
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I have no issues with 6a staying for playoffs.
If you want to give more teams the ability to grow their program closing off the top 28 or 32 into only playing each other guarantees 8-10 of the biggest programs in the state go 2-6 or worse every year. Not good for the sport.


There should be the ability to play 5a/6a combo schedules. Would be better for high school football in the state. The 6a district for scheduling needs to be bigger. That’s more important than playoffs.
With our current model of everyone makes the playoffs, the only way to get that done might be to contract a class
 

“What’s good for the sport” is making sure EP, Tonka, MG, and Wayzata all go 6-2 or better, at the sake of everyone else?

That ain’t it
 




Some guy said:
I have no issues with 6a staying for playoffs.
If you want to give more teams the ability to grow their program closing off the top 28 or 32 into only playing each other guarantees 8-10 of the biggest programs in the state go 2-6 or worse every year. Not good for the sport.


There should be the ability to play 5a/6a combo schedules. Would be better for high school football in the state. The 6a district for scheduling needs to be bigger. That’s more important than playoffs.
With our current model of everyone makes the playoffs, the only way to get that done might be to contract a class
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I think we all know that there are 5A teams that would beat up on most of 6A every year. STA, Mahtomedi, Andover, etc. are all really well run programs.

And we all know there are 6A teams that would probably get stomped by the best of 4A. Hopkins, Roseville etc.
 

MNSpaniel said:
Question : Mankato West seems to be one of the best teams in the state every year but seldom here of many DI players coming out of there. Maybe there has been and I just didn't catch it.
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Annexstad went to Mankato West before heading down to IMG and Jalen Smith is currently committed for our 2024 class
 


How about a transformational idea. Take the top 16 6A and divide into two groups, North/South, East/West, I don't care. Each Group/Division would have seven games in their Group. IN ADDITION, they would be allowed to schedule two games outside Minnesota. ND, SD, Iowa, WI, IL?, Kansas? on a home one year, away next year basis. Nine games would make the season. The playoffs would involve the top two teams in each Division, with a crossover mindset. #1 in Group/Division A would play #2 in Group Division B, #1 in Group/Division B would play #2 in Group/Division A. Winners play for the Championship, it's a ten game schedule for the losers and an eleven game schedule for the winners. Those 6A not in the 16 would be combined with existing 5A/4A based on geography. Gopherholers, impractical? or worth studying? If schools outsideMinnesota can basically have these kinds of schedules why not Minnesota??
 
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New AP MN HS football poll
(1st place votes) (total points) (last week's rating)

6A:
1. Eden Prairie 6-0 (11) (110) (1)
2. Maple Grove 5-1 -- (89) (5)
3. Lakeville North 5-1 -- (88) (4)
4. Minnetonka 5-1 -- (71) (3)
5. Lakeville South 5-1 -- (59) (2)
6. Stillwater Area 5-1 -- (55) (6)
6. Centennial 5-1 -- (55) (7)
8. Rosemount 4-2 -- (30) (not rated)
9. Buffalo 5-1 -- (21) (10)
10. Woodbury 4-2 -- (10) (not rated)

5A:
1. Chanhassen 6-0 (11) (110) (1)
2. Rogers 6-0 -- (98) (2)
3. Mankato West 5-1 -- (85) (3)
4. Alexandria 6-0 -- (79) (4)
5. Sauk Rapids-Rice 6-0 -- (58) (5)
6. St. Thomas Academy 5-1 -- (53) (6)
7. Andover 5-1 -- (47) (7)
8. Brainerd 5-1 -- (37) (8)
9. Robbinsdale Armstrong 5-1 -- (19) (10)
10. Bloomington Jefferson 5-1 -- (12) (not rated)

4A:
1. Becker 6-0 (11) (110) (1)
2. Orono 6-0 -- (99) (2)
3. Princeton 6-0 -- (81) (6)
4. Totino-Grace 5-1 -- (77) (5)
5. Hutchinson 4-2 -- (51) (8)
6. Byron 5-1 -- (39) (3)
7. Kasson-Mantorville 5-1 -- (36) (10)
8. Mound Westonka 5-1 -- (34) (9)
9. Rocori 4-2 -- (21) (7)
10. Detroit Lakes 5-1 -- (20) (4)
10. North Branch 5-1 -- (20) (not rated)

3A:
1. Stewartville 6-0 (7) (106) (1)
2. Esko 6-0 (4) (103) (2)
3. Annandale 6-0 -- (87) (4)
4. Litchfield 5-1 -- (68) (5)
5. Dilworth-Glyndon-Felton 5-1 -- (60) (7)
6. Dassel-Cokato 5-1 -- (42) (6)
7. Mpls North 5-1 -- (41) (8)
8. Waseca 5-1 -- (38) (9)
9. Fairmont 5-1 -- (32) (3)
10. Pequot Lakes 5-1 -- (12) (10)

2A:
1. Barnesville 6-0 (7) (105) (1)
2. Caledonia 6-0 (3) (99) (2)
3. Eden Valley-Watkins 6-0 -- (86) (4)
4. Jackson County Central 6-0 -- (71) (5)
5. St. Agnes 6-0 (1) (67) (6)
6. Barnum 6-0 -- (46) (7)
7. Chatfield 5-1 -- (44) (3)
8. Norwood-Young America 6-0 -- (39) (8)
9. Cannon Falls 5-1 -- (25) (9)
10. Osakis 5-1 -- (12) (not rated)

1A:
1. Minneota 6-0 (9) (107) (1)
2. Fillmore Central 6-0 (1) (98) (3)
3. Mahnomen-Waubun 6-0 (1) (82) (5)
4. BOLD 5-1 -- (69) (8)
5. Belgrade-Brooten-Elrosa 6-0 -- (54) (not rated)
6. Ada-Borup West 5-1 -- (36) (10)
7. Mayer Lutheran 5-1 -- (24) (not rated)
8. Bethlehem Academy 5-1 -- (13) (not rated)
9. Upsala-Swanville Area 5-1 -- (13) (not rated)
10. Sleepy Eye United 5-1 -- (9) (not rated)

9-player:
1. Mountain Iron-Buhl 6-0 (10) (109) (1)
2. Fertile-Beltrami 6-0 (1) (96) (2)
3. Cherry 6-0 -- (92) (3)
4. Nevis 6-0 -- (75) (4)
5. Ottertail Central 6-0 -- (61) (6)
6. Kingsland 6-0 -- (53) (9)
7. Hills-Beaver Creek 6-0 -- (32) (not rated)
8. LeRoy-Ostrander 5-1 -- (24) (7)
9. Ogilvie 5-1 -- (20) (5)
10. Spring Grove 5-1 -- (19) (10)
 

MNSpaniel said:
Question : Mankato West seems to be one of the best teams in the state every year but seldom here of many DI players coming out of there. Maybe there has been and I just didn't catch it.
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They have had a few. I think Eric Stenzel '00 was the first and played D-Line and Fullback for the Gophers. Philip Nelson, Zack and Brock Annexstad being the only other West alums to play for U of M I believe. Two current NDSU players (Mekhi Collins and Owen Johnson). This years senior class has two D1 commits. Jalen Smith will play for the Gophers and Greg Meidl is headed to Army. West has had a lot of D2 players throughout the years.
 

Look at that. Armstrong and Jefferson get to play in 5A where they belong and both 5-1 and ranked. Good for them!

Every public like them should also be 5A.
 

heads up - with the weather expected to be messy Thursday and Friday - heavy rain and strong winds, with some thunderstorms - I'm seeing teams changing schedules to move up kickoff times or move to different days.

here in SW MN, one game got moved to tonight - Wednesday - to get ahead of the weather. I've seen tweets about other games getting moved. a 9-player game Thursday is kicking off at 4:30pm.

so if you were thinking about attending a game - check the schedule - and break out the rain gear.

or stay home and hope the game is on a free stream that you can access.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
heads up - with the weather expected to be messy Thursday and Friday - heavy rain and strong winds, with some thunderstorms - I'm seeing teams changing schedules to move up kickoff times or move to different days.

here in SW MN, one game got moved to tonight - Wednesday - to get ahead of the weather. I've seen tweets about other games getting moved. a 9-player game Thursday is kicking off at 4:30pm.

so if you were thinking about attending a game - check the schedule - and break out the rain gear.

or stay home and hope the game is on a free stream that you can access.
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Not supposed to lightning in the cities at least
 

a few games to watch- best matchups involving ranked teams

9-player:
(Thurs) #3 Cherry (6-0) at #1 Mountain Iron-Buhl (6-0)
(Fri) #6 Kingsland (6-0) at #10 Spring Grove (5-1)
--- Verndale (5-1) at #4 Nevis (6-0)

1A:
(Thurs) #7 in 1A -Mayer Lutheran (5-1) at #8 in 2A -Norwood-Young America (6-0)

2A:
(Fri) Kimball Area (5-1) at #3 Eden Valley-Watkins (6-0)

3A:
(Fri) #2 Esko (6-0) at (4A) Hermantown (5-1)

4A:
(Fri) #4 Totino-Grace (5-1) at #2 Orono (6-0)

5A:
(Fri) #5 Sauk Rapids-Rice (6-0) at #7 Andover (5-1)

6A:
(Fri) #9 Buffalo (5-1) at #4 Minnetonka (5-1)

week #7 of the regular season already. MEA games next Wednesday, and then into the Section Playoffs.

watched some of the Springfield game last night on stream. Springfield (6-1) is not rated in 1A, but they can score points - 40 or more in 5 of their 6 wins. I'll see them in person next Wednesday when they play at Windom.
 

MplsGopher said:
Look at that. Armstrong and Jefferson get to play in 5A where they belong and both 5-1 and ranked. Good for them!

Every public like them should also be 5A.
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Every public “like them” is in 5a
 

Nope. Hopkins Burnsville

Just because they have a few hundred more kids of immigrant working parents, and have absolutely zero interest and/or ability in American Football, don’t mean jack S

Exactly where metrics on number of kids out for football at the high school and relative health of youth feeder programs could help dictate — correctly — that those two should relegate down and we should promote programs like Chan and Rogers.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
a few games to watch- best matchups involving ranked teams

9-player:
(Thurs) #3 Cherry (6-0) at #1 Mountain Iron-Buhl (6-0)
(Fri) #6 Kingsland (6-0) at #10 Spring Grove (5-1)
--- Verndale (5-1) at #4 Nevis (6-0)

1A:
(Thurs) #7 in 1A -Mayer Lutheran (5-1) at #8 in 2A -Norwood-Young America (6-0)

2A:
(Fri) Kimball Area (5-1) at #3 Eden Valley-Watkins (6-0)

3A:
(Fri) #2 Esko (6-0) at (4A) Hermantown (5-1)

4A:
(Fri) #4 Totino-Grace (5-1) at #2 Orono (6-0)

5A:
(Fri) #5 Sauk Rapids-Rice (6-0) at #7 Andover (5-1)

6A:
(Fri) #9 Buffalo (5-1) at #4 Minnetonka (5-1)

week #7 of the regular season already. MEA games next Wednesday, and then into the Section Playoffs.

watched some of the Springfield game last night on stream. Springfield (6-1) is not rated in 1A, but they can score points - 40 or more in 5 of their 6 wins. I'll see them in person next Wednesday when they play at Windom.
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Is Windom 1A? If so, is it because of high free/reduced lunch? Springfield throttled MCW last night. Springfield's only loss was to Sleepy Eye United who followed up their big victory against Springfield by losing to MCW last week.
 

swede2 said:
Is Windom 1A? If so, is it because of high free/reduced lunch? Springfield throttled MCW last night. Springfield's only loss was to Sleepy Eye United who followed up their big victory against Springfield by losing to MCW last week.
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Windom is AA I believe, but plays an A schedule
 

swede2 said:
Is Windom 1A? If so, is it because of high free/reduced lunch? Springfield throttled MCW last night. Springfield's only loss was to Sleepy Eye United who followed up their big victory against Springfield by losing to MCW last week.
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Windom is AA by enrollment, but the district committee is allowing Windom to play a 1A schedule. the program has been really struggling with low numbers and lack of success, so the committee is letting Windom see if it can win a few games and convince more kids to go out for football.

FWIW - Windom's victory over Wabasso last Friday was Windom's first win on its home field since 2019 - and the first time Windom has won back-to-back games since 2010.

the same thing was done with St. James last year. It's seen as preferrable to having programs fold or be forced to consolidate.
 

Complaints that Windom shouldn't be allowed to move down just to make some other teams take losses, in ... 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...
 

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