2023 Colorado PF Kadyn Betts commits to Gophers










GopherWeatherGuy

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read some on GH say prephoops does the best at evaluating players. Payne was ranked #84, Betts #87 - so should be getting another high quality player

It doesn't, and that website is a mess.

It will be interesting to see if Betts gets more offers this summer.
 




Fleckoff

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This is a great pick up. Apparently the staff will take both Betts and Winter. Betts best spot is the four, but with his offensive game he could play some three, where as Winter a 4/5 type. Thought if they took one they would then focus on the back court, but if they four freshman, it will end up making sense. Great pick up, kid definitely has a motor, willing to rebound and has smooth jumper with a quick release. If he's going the Prep School route, I wonder if he could early enroll for this year?
 

Gopherfan84

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It doesn't, and that website is a mess.

It will be interesting to see if Betts gets more offers this summer.
It seems to me they evaluate the best nationally that I’ve seen. I like Bossi a lot at 247, but they haven’t really figured out their rankings since covid.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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It seems to me they evaluate the best nationally that I’ve seen. I like Bossi a lot at 247, but they haven’t really figured out their rankings since covid.

We've been through this in the Henley thread but their state and national rankings are all over the place and don't align. Maybe they evaluate some local talent better, but overall, prep hoops is far worse than 247.
 



GopherOhana

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We've been through this in the Henley thread but their state and national rankings are all over the place and don't align. Maybe they evaluate some local talent better, but overall, prep hoops is far worse than 247.
if those committing to the Gophers are ranked more highly on prephoops, i'd prefer to abuse the confirmation bias

247 has carey booth at #74. if Carey wants to be a gopher (his sister is already enrolled and on the volleyball team) would the gophers take him?
 

Winona Gopher

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We've been through this in the Henley thread but their state and national rankings are all over the place and don't align. Maybe they evaluate some local talent better, but overall, prep hoops is far worse than 247.
I wouldn’t say far worse. Have you seen who 247 has as the top prep in Minnesota for the 2022 class? It’s DJ Jefferson. I don’t think anyone locally would rate him higher Payne, Tre, Carrington, etc. He may have a higher ceiling than those 3 because he’s got good size and athletic ability for being 6’6.

If you want the best local perspective, it’s going to be Prep Hoops.
 

Gopherfan84

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We've been through this in the Henley thread but their state and national rankings are all over the place and don't align. Maybe they evaluate some local talent better, but overall, prep hoops is far worse than 247.
Maybe for some functionality on the website, but the rankings are not any worse imo.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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I wouldn’t say far worse. Have you seen who 247 has as the top prep in Minnesota for the 2022 class? It’s DJ Jefferson. I don’t think anyone locally would rate him higher Payne, Tre, Carrington, etc. He may have a higher ceiling than those 3 because he’s got good size and athletic ability for being 6’6.

If you want the best local perspective, it’s going to be Prep Hoops.
Maybe for some functionality on the website, but the rankings are not any worse imo.

I don't want to rehash this argument again, but here is my post from a little over a month ago.

I already mentioned how the national rankings don't align with the state rankings in many cases. That's the first reason to disregard this site.

Their national rankings also include 12 Minnesota players in the top 250, including players like Antwaun Massey, who you really can't find any new information on, and BJ Omot, who is uncommitted on their site even though he committed to UND over 3 months ago. They also have DJ Jefferson still committed to Tulsa. According to them, all of these players are better than Henley, who is not in the top 250.

I get that you want to believe in Prep Hoops because it has Payne and Carrington rated more highly, but overall it is a garbage site.

There are errors all over Prep Hoops and many players don't get updated, including several local players.
 

Gopherfan84

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I don't want to rehash this argument again, but here is my post from a little over a month ago.



There are errors all over Prep Hoops and many players don't get updated, including several local players.
Thanks for digging. The 22 class is probably the deepest MN has had so it’s fair for it to get ranked highly by anyone who watches. Again I really like Bossi and it seems like 247 is getting back after it on the basketball end, but just like prep hoops it has it’s biases too. Some guys carry weight with Eric while others don’t. Prep hoops is a little more grassroots and has more guys on the ground imo because they aren’t aligned and as involved in a specific teams recruiting. Just my pushback on why I think it’s better. Don’t need to change your mind as you do your own research on both. Others don’t and only see the blanket statement that “it’s worse” so it’s more than fair to push back and allow them to read other perspectives imo. That’s the main reason I post back at it.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Thanks for digging. The 22 class is probably the deepest MN has had so it’s fair for it to get ranked highly by anyone who watches. Again I really like Bossi and it seems like 247 is getting back after it on the basketball end, but just like prep hoops it has it’s biases too. Some guys carry weight with Eric while others don’t. Prep hoops is a little more grassroots and has more guys on the ground imo because they aren’t aligned and as involved in a specific teams recruiting. Just my pushback on why I think it’s better. Don’t need to change your mind as you do your own research on both. Others don’t and only see the blanket statement that “it’s worse” so it’s more than fair to push back and allow them to read other perspectives imo. That’s the main reason I post back at it.

From a data analysis standpoint Prep Hoops is far worse, and rankings are mostly based off of data analysis.

It's ok to admit you and others want to believe Prep Hoops because they have MN/Gophers players rated higher. But those rankings are against a bunch of players who haven't even had the school they have been committed to for months updated, let alone their ranking.

I would love to see more competition against 247, but for right now, Prep Hoops isn't it.
 

Gopherfan84

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From a data analysis standpoint Prep Hoops is far worse, and rankings are mostly based off of data analysis.

It's ok to admit you and others want to believe Prep Hoops because they have MN/Gophers players rated higher. But those rankings are against a bunch of players who haven't even had the school they have been committed to for months updated, let alone their ranking.

I would love to see more competition against 247, but for right now, Prep Hoops isn't it.
Yes I agree on the offers, organization, and things like that, but as a actual rankings nationally are equal and better in many/most cases. If I was a general user I would go with 247 because it keeps up better with the offers, etc… 247 needs to drop the composite rankings as those are now worthless imo. Again just sharing another perspective. Many will come see some our recruits and think they are poor because 247 doesn’t rank them well when they have been pretty poor to the Midwest for a couple of years. Other programs and folks carry more weight as Bossi makes his rankings.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Yes I agree on the offers, organization, and things like that, but as a actual rankings nationally are equal and better in many/most cases.

Name several examples of where this is the case?

Many will come see some our recruits and think they are poor because 247 doesn’t rank them well when they have been pretty poor to the Midwest for a couple of years. Other programs and folks carry more weight as Bossi makes his rankings.

Our recruiting has been poor. That's why we're one of the worst basketball programs in the B1G.
 

builtbadgers

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Yes I agree on the offers, organization, and things like that, but as a actual rankings nationally are equal and better in many/most cases. If I was a general user I would go with 247 because it keeps up better with the offers, etc… 247 needs to drop the composite rankings as those are now worthless imo. Again just sharing another perspective. Many will come see some our recruits and think they are poor because 247 doesn’t rank them well when they have been pretty poor to the Midwest for a couple of years. Other programs and folks carry more weight as Bossi makes his rankings.
And Bossi carries a ton of credibility as a evaluator without peer as several great coaches actually talk to him on a trusted basis. He has a brilliant eye for talent, skill and fit.
 

Gopherfan84

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Name several examples of where this is the case?
Mainly any Midwest guy. They are all pretty much vastly underrated in 247. That's my complaint is that Bossi has others in his ears from other regions that carry too much weight while Ryan James who travels nationally as well doesn't. Payne was grossly underrated in 247. Carrington and King were as well. Johnnie Davis and Suggs were more correctly ranked in Prep Hoops and lower in 247. DJ Jefferson is one of the worst rankings I've seen in a long time on 247 and is a classic example of Tennessee guys getting their hooks into someone at 247 and Bossi letting it happen. Prince Aligbe is also vastly overrated. There are some obvious gross oversites on preps and I don't disagree with that. The fact they still have Shaedon Sharpe as their 1 in 2023 is awful and why I said if I was just an average fan, I'd look at 247, but it needs to be taken with a grain of salt with Midwest recruits at this time. This isn't untrue of any national ranking systems especially since covid slowed down the national circuits.
Our recruiting has been poor. That's why we're one of the worst basketball programs in the B1G.
If you are talking about the last 10 years of recruiting, then yes it has been poor and it's a big reason we are where we are in terms of the B1G. We cannot truly rank Ben's yet however as it's too soon. This freshman class will easily outperform its ranking and I don't think it'll be close because of how poorly ranked they were.
 

Gopherfan84

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And Bossi carries a ton of credibility as a evaluator without peer as several great coaches actually talk to him on a trusted basis. He has a brilliant eye for talent, skill and fit.
Yes and the coaches who trust Bossi are high level guys (Bennett, Painter, etc...). I like him, but some folks have some hooks in him on 247 with his recent rankings this year imo.
 


GopherWeatherGuy

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Mainly any Midwest guy. They are all pretty much vastly underrated in 247. That's my complaint is that Bossi has others in his ears from other regions that carry too much weight while Ryan James who travels nationally as well doesn't. Payne was grossly underrated in 247. Carrington and King were as well. Johnnie Davis and Suggs were more correctly ranked in Prep Hoops and lower in 247. DJ Jefferson is one of the worst rankings I've seen in a long time on 247 and is a classic example of Tennessee guys getting their hooks into someone at 247 and Bossi letting it happen. Prince Aligbe is also vastly overrated. There are some obvious gross oversites on preps and I don't disagree with that. The fact they still have Shaedon Sharpe as their 1 in 2023 is awful and why I said if I was just an average fan, I'd look at 247, but it needs to be taken with a grain of salt with Midwest recruits at this time. This isn't untrue of any national ranking systems especially since covid slowed down the national circuits.

If you are talking about the last 10 years of recruiting, then yes it has been poor and it's a big reason we are where we are in terms of the B1G. We cannot truly rank Ben's yet however as it's too soon. This freshman class will easily outperform its ranking and I don't think it'll be close because of how poorly ranked they were.

So we cannot evaluate Ben’s classes yet (agree), but nearly all of your examples of why Prep Hoops is better is due to the rankings of players who haven’t played a minute of college basketball yet. Those two things do not align, and you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth.

As for DJ Jefferson, Rick Barnes thinks he’s good enough for a scholarship. All he’s done is go to the NCAA tournament 26 of 34 seasons at 4 different major conference schools, on top of winning multiple conference championships. I’ll trust his evaluation over 247 or Prep Hoops.
 

Gopherfan84

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So we cannot evaluate Ben’s classes yet (agree), but nearly all of your examples of why Prep Hoops is better is due to the rankings of players who haven’t played a minute of college basketball yet. Those two things do not align, and you’re talking out of both sides of your mouth.

As for DJ Jefferson, Rick Barnes thinks he’s good enough for a scholarship. All he’s done is go to the NCAA tournament 26 of 34 seasons at 4 different major conference schools, on top of winning multiple conference championships. I’ll trust his evaluation over 247 or Prep Hoops.
Again, not looking to change your mind, looking to give another perspective for other readers when you speak in absolutes about rankings. You are right that my examples are recent and that was done on purpose and by necessity. Prep Hoops is new and didn't do national rankings during covid. So the options are recent. Bossi also has only been at 247 for a couple years and I am willing to hope that he changes his errors. I don't know why you are so adamant on ripping any rankings that gives Minnesota and the Midwest a little more credit and respect that they've earned.

Lets check back to this next year when Jefferson. He was a flyer/late add take for Barnes in the spring and he will most likely be in the portal this spring and dropping a level. Nothing to lose for Barnes as they don't care if they run guys off at TN. The dirty part of the national rankings systems is there are coaches who get gets to rank their guys higher and in return share information with them. I'd bet a mortgage payment that happened here. It's just said that Bossi went with it.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Again, not looking to change your mind, looking to give another perspective for other readers when you speak in absolutes about rankings. You are right that my examples are recent and that was done on purpose and by necessity. Prep Hoops is new and didn't do national rankings during covid. So the options are recent. Bossi also has only been at 247 for a couple years and I am willing to hope that he changes his errors. I don't know why you are so adamant on ripping any rankings that gives Minnesota and the Midwest a little more credit and respect that they've earned.

Lets check back to this next year when Jefferson. He was a flyer/late add take for Barnes in the spring and he will most likely be in the portal this spring and dropping a level. Nothing to lose for Barnes as they don't care if they run guys off at TN. The dirty part of the national rankings systems is there are coaches who get gets to rank their guys higher and in return share information with them. I'd bet a mortgage payment that happened here. It's just said that Bossi went with it.

I don't have any issues with another perspective, I typically enjoy it. It's when there are so many flaws with the site to get to those rankings, it makes it easy to throw them out the window. Clean up those errors and I'm on board. Plus they've been ranking prospects since 2017, so there's a good amount of data now.

What does Ben have to lose by 'running players off'? Having thin teams, but trying to 'keep everyone happy' is one of my biggest issues with Ben. Whether it was Jefferson or someone else, we could sure use another body right now.

As for Betts, he's an intriguing prospect. But 87th in the country and his best offers are Minnesota and Nebraska? That's a solid 4* on 247. Prep Hoops also has him playing at Pueblo HS from West Virginia...🤦‍♂️
 


cjbfbp

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Our recruiting has been poor. That's why we're one of the worst basketball programs in the B1G.

On a bottom line basis, it's hard to argue against that statement.

However, at least when it came to Pitino, I always felt that his player development was worse than his recruiting.
 




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