2022 Transfer Portal Discussion

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jovs said:
That means you are failing miserably as a coach on many fronts. You are not roster managing. You are not developing and creating opportunities. People want to play in an environment that excites them and that includes winning which you are probably not doing. You are probably recruiting guys who marginally want to be there.

If that is happening time to move on from a coaching perspective.
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That’s pretty harsh. The portal goes both ways. Coaches may be failing exactly as you say, but not including the unrealistic expectations and oversized vision of how good players are by themselves, their families and handlers presents an incomplete picture of the situation. The easy transfer system encourages jumping instead of persevering. Many guys need to move on, but many are probably not making good choices.
 

Gopher Teeth said:
So you think this will be another mid major roster playing in the B10?
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You take the best you can get. Johnson already is taking 4 freshman into next year's roster. I guess these are by definition P6 recruits even if they don't end up playing that way but I wouldn't recommend taking any additional freshmen.

Here is a listing of some of the better mid-major transfer recruits (meaning they didn't matriculate originally at a P6 school AND didn't transfer from a P6 school) we've had in recent years:

Reggie Lynch (regardless of his character, he was a good player and made a huge difference in the time he played)
Akeem Springs
Brandon Johnson
Liam Robbins
Jamison Battle
EJ Stephens

I certainly would take players of the above caliber over any of the following Big Ten recruits:

Jarvis Omersa
Tre' Williams
Michael Hurt
Bakary Konate
Gaston Diedhiou
Ahmad Gilbert
Kevin Dorsey
Charles Buggs
Josh Martin
Daquein McNeil
Isaiah Washington (this one is the closest call to me because he did do some things quite well)

I didn't include Luke Loewe, Sean Sutherlin, and Alihan on the first list because I didn't think they were among the better mid-major transfers but I probably would take either of the first two over most or all of list directly above and even Alihan over the majority of it.
 


bmb5270 said:
I think they are in a position to much more selective than last year. Need to find 3 or 4 guys vs replacing the entire roster.
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True, but some people have to get away from the idea that mid-major = weak. A mature mid-major player with a history of solid productivity in those conferences normally is going to better than a marginal Big Ten recruit and, in recent history, we've seem to have recruited more than our fair share of marginal Big Ten recruits. Right now the percentage of uncommitted P6 transfers is relatively low anyway.

The one thing that troubles me a bit about the current portal list is that it is disproportionally freshmen and redshirt freshmen (probably at least 35%). More often than not with those players you don't have much of a record to judge which makes them a higher risk. Hopefully, a higher percentage of non-freshmen will jump into the portal as time goes on.
 



cjbfbp said:
You take the best you can get. Johnson already is taking 4 freshman into next year's roster. I guess these are by definition P6 recruits even if they don't end up playing that way but I wouldn't recommend taking any additional freshmen.

Here is a listing of some of the better mid-major transfer recruits (meaning they didn't matriculate originally at a P6 school AND didn't transfer from a P6 school) we've had in recent years:

Reggie Lynch (regardless of his character, he was a good player and made a huge difference in the time he played)
Akeem Springs
Brandon Johnson
Liam Robbins
Jamison Battle
EJ Stephens

I certainly would take players of the above caliber over any of the following Big Ten recruits:

Jarvis Omersa
Tre' Williams
Michael Hurt
Bakary Konate
Gaston Diedhiou
Ahmad Gilbert
Kevin Dorsey
Charles Buggs
Josh Martin
Daquein McNeil
Isaiah Washington (this one is the closest call to me because he did do some things quite well)

I didn't include Luke Loewe, Sean Sutherlin, and Alihan on the first list because I didn't think they were among the better mid-major transfers but I probably would take either of the first two over most or all of list directly above and even Alihan over the majority of it.
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Players like Stephens Loewe, and Sutherlin are player we want in 7-9 depth chart, not two starting. Stephens and Loewe got eaten alive physically
 

bmb5270 said:
I think they are in a position to much more selective than last year. Need to find 3 or 4 guys vs replacing the entire roster.
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Yeah, very different situation heading into this off season than it was right after Ben got hired last year. Last year he had to assemble a full team from the portal whereas this time around he just has to fill some specific needs. Still going to have a lot of work to do but not quite as massive a task as it was a year ago.

Will be interesting to see what kind of players he targets and who he is able to land.
 

How about the 7 footer(5 star) who was eliminated at IaState because of supposed sexual abuse. The girl involved has since recanted, and told authorities he wasn’t involved so no charges were filed. IaState didn’t wait and the kid was already suspended and then dropped from the team.
 



Spottedmuskie said:
Players like Stephens Loewe, and Sutherlin are player we want in 7-9 depth chart, not two starting. Stephens and Loewe got eaten alive physically
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I would agree but I would rather have 3 rotational players like than some of the weaker players we recruited here as freshmen. Although Loewe wasn't nearly good enough to play as many minutes as he did at this level, he was a competent ball handler who played hard. Ideally 10 or 12 minutes a game would be right for him. Ideally the other two would be better off the bench as well.
 



CentralGopher said:
For the record I am fine with high bball iq upper classmen mid major players to go along with our freshman recruits. Think they can offer a lot for the freshman to learn from.
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I am too if one is taller than 6'5". All the good players we got were guards and then Battle who's not a post. We were way too small defensively
 



Blackhammer said:
Part of the reason for starting strong and fading was because our veteran transfers knew how to play in comparison to freshmen coming in. Unfortunately they didn’t have much upside.
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Yes, their upside was limited but that wasn't the primary problem. The primary problem was that Ben didn't recruit enough competent players especially in the front court where we were horrible. There's really not a strong excuse for settling for two front court players like Daniels and Ogele. Daniels only averaged 12 minutes a game at a lower mid-major team and Ogele wasn't all that impressive at the D2 level where they have substantially weaker (and smaller) big men.
 


cjbfbp said:
Yes, their upside was limited but that wasn't the primary problem. The primary problem was that Ben didn't recruit enough competent players especially in the front court where we were horrible. There's really not a strong excuse for settling for two front court players like Daniels and Ogele. Daniels only averaged 12 minutes a game at a lower mid-major team and Ogele wasn't all that impressive at the D2 level where they have substantially weaker (and smaller) big men.
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1. He was counting on Fox and Ihnen both front court players. Then bingo..................injuries!!! Its obvious that created a big problem. So what was Ben to do????

2. I doubt that Ben had his sights settling on Daniels and Ogele. IIRC, they were last minute fill ins for Fox and Ihnen. Most Gopher fans believed that they were not the solution. My guess is that Ben tried hard to recruit some established bigs but didn't get it done. Curry stepped up to help and probable knew that the team would struggle to be compete in the BIG.

3. Ben tried to bring in players who would fit into his system. I think he did a good job considering he was a rookie HC with nothing to offer recruits other than words and trust.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
1. He was counting on Fox and Ihnen both front court players. Then bingo..................injuries!!! Its obvious that created a big problem. So what was Ben to do????

2. I doubt that Ben had his sights settling on Daniels and Ogele. IIRC, they were last minute fill ins for Fox and Ihnen. Most Gopher fans believed that they were not the solution. My guess is that Ben tried hard to recruit some established bigs but didn't get it done. Curry stepped up to help and probable knew that the team would struggle to be compete in the BIG.

3. Ben tried to bring in players who would fit into his system. I think he did a good job considering he was a rookie HC with nothing to offer recruits other than words and trust.
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Yes, I've heard all of these before multiple times. They haven't become more convincing with repetition.

I'll deal with #3 first: lousy players don't fit anyone's "system." I don't have a problem with any of the guards. I was talking about the aforementioned front court players.

As to #1 and #2: You're shortening the timeline! Fox committed early and he was injured very shortly after he committed. Daniels committed fairly early too and before Ihnen was injured. Ihnen was injured late in the recruiting period but there was still time left to get someone better than Ogele. Neither of these players should have been offered. There were better front court players than them who went to lesser programs than ours.

Ben made a number of mistakes when it came to recruiting the front court. One was seemingly wrapping up all of his guards first. There are always more quality guards than big men available (and there certainly were more than 3 or 4 that would fit his "system"). Another one was aiming too high initially. Instead of settling for middle prospects earlier, he ended up settling for low prospects later.
 


cjbfbp said:
Yes, I've heard all of these before multiple times. They haven't become more convincing with repetition.

I'll deal with #3 first: lousy players don't fit anyone's "system." I don't have a problem with any of the guards. I was talking about the aforementioned front court players.

As to #1 and #2: You're shortening the timeline! Fox committed early and he was injured very shortly after he committed. Daniels committed fairly early too and before Ihnen was injured. Ihnen was injured late in the recruiting period but there was still time left to get someone better than Ogele. Neither of these players should have been offered. There were better front court players than them who went to lesser programs than ours.

Ben made a number of mistakes when it came to recruiting the front court. One was seemingly wrapping up all of his guards first. There are always more quality guards than big men available (and there certainly were more than 3 or 4 that would fit his "system"). Another one was aiming too high initially. Instead of settling for middle prospects earlier, he ended up settling for low prospects later.
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Fox tore his acl in mid April, I can buy the II injury but ben had plenty of notice on Fox to get 2 players better than ogele and Daniel's. He essentially had to beat D2 teams for those players, they couldn't play for low majors
 

cjbfbp said:
Yes, their upside was limited but that wasn't the primary problem. The primary problem was that Ben didn't recruit enough competent players especially in the front court where we were horrible. There's really not a strong excuse for settling for two front court players like Daniels and Ogele. Daniels only averaged 12 minutes a game at a lower mid-major team and Ogele wasn't all that impressive at the D2 level where they have substantially weaker (and smaller) big men.
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He didn't, you are correct, but are we going to give zero credence to the fact he had to put together almost an entire roster in a matter of a few months? We had Curry, TT, Fox and Ihnen. Given the stature of our program I'm not sure there would have been much of a better outcome while factoring in the injuries which do happen. We aren't Duke or Kentucky that have the pick of the portal.
 

MinnGopher said:
He didn't, you are correct, but are we going to give zero credence to the fact he had to put together almost an entire roster in a matter of a few months? We had Curry, TT, Fox and Ihnen. Given the stature of our program I'm not sure there would have been much of a better outcome while factoring in the injuries which do happen. We aren't Duke or Kentucky that have the pick of the portal.
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I get a kick out of how easy some people make it sound. Fox got hurt, just go pluck another Big from the portal.

The portal provides a lot of options for coaches to patch their roster but the challenge is that you have to evaluate and try to get to know the player over a really short amount of time in order to figure out if this guy is going to be a fit for your style and your program.

All things considered Johnson was very successful with the players he pulled from the portal in 2021. Battle and Willis were both great. Loewe, Sutherlin, and Stephens were all solid contributors and Fox remains a TBD due to injury but was highly sought after and probably would have been a big contributor had he been able to play.

Only real miss in the portal was Daniels, but hitting on 6 out of 7 is pretty impressive.

For 2022 he needs to find guys on the level of Battle and Willis to fill some key spots on the roster. I'm excited to see who he brings in. The nice thing for this year is that he doesn't have to rebuild an entire roster, just fill in around the guys he has returning.
 


fan of Ray Williams said:
^
And Danny Ogele.
I’m anxious to see what Ben gets this year.
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Odd that 247 doesn't list him as a transfer but yeah I should have included him I guess. He unfortunately didn't prove to be much more than a body for practices but on the plus side he also didn't tie up a scholarship long term.

That is another key with the portal, if you are going to miss on a player make sure it is one year guy and not one that is going to be around for a while.
 



MNVCGUY said:
Odd that 247 doesn't list him as a transfer but yeah I should have included him I guess. He unfortunately didn't prove to be much more than a body for practices but on the plus side he also didn't tie up a scholarship long term.

That is another key with the portal, if you are going to miss on a player make sure it is one year guy and not one that is going to be around for a while.
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That used to be a more legitimate concern, however....

When is the last time we maxed out and really used 13 scholarships with guys that were eligible to play? Also, gone (I think) are the days when a kid just hangs around if he can't play at this level. With free agency- they are going to move on or they are kept because they are good attitude guys who don't have a problem rooting from the bench.
 

MinnGopher said:
He didn't, you are correct, but are we going to give zero credence to the fact he had to put together almost an entire roster in a matter of a few months?
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Of course not. I've given Ben plenty of credit for the first transfer commits he got. You must have me confused with someone else. I'm not a simple minded moron who processes information completely in black and white/all or nothing. I don't know why people assume that a criticism for one aspect of performance implies a criticism for all aspects of performance.
 


bga1 said:
That used to be a more legitimate concern, however....

When is the last time we maxed out and really used 13 scholarships with guys that were eligible to play? Also, gone (I think) are the days when a kid just hangs around if he can't play at this level. With free agency- they are going to move on or they are kept because they are good attitude guys who don't have a problem rooting from the bench.
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True, but once a kid uses up their free transfer they are less likely to transfer again as it would mean sitting out a year.

I am really curious to see what kind of philosophy Ben brings to the portal this year. Last year the focus was clearly on a few top targets and then on adding a bunch of one year players to leave a ton of flexibility for 22 and beyond.

Will be interesting to see if he targets more multi-year guys this time around.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I get a kick out of how easy some people make it sound. Fox got hurt, just go pluck another Big from the portal.

The portal provides a lot of options for coaches to patch their roster but the challenge is that you have to evaluate and try to get to know the player over a really short amount of time in order to figure out if this guy is going to be a fit for your style and your program.

All things considered Johnson was very successful with the players he pulled from the portal in 2021. Battle and Willis were both great. Loewe, Sutherlin, and Stephens were all solid contributors and Fox remains a TBD due to injury but was highly sought after and probably would have been a big contributor had he been able to play.

Only real miss in the portal was Daniels, but hitting on 6 out of 7 is pretty impressive.

For 2022 he needs to find guys on the level of Battle and Willis to fill some key spots on the roster. I'm excited to see who he brings in. The nice thing for this year is that he doesn't have to rebuild an entire roster, just fill in around the guys he has returning.
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Apparently your brain can't process nuance or you just don't pay attention to what others write and formulate your own arguments to rebut.
 

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