2020-2021 Minnesota Timberwolves In-Season Thread



Apparently we won't go undefeated for the season after all. As a parting gift, we now get to play the Clippers after a 51 point loss. That will be fun.

Howl Wolves!!
 

“It happens. You go through things and have to fight through adversity,” Wolves guard Malik Beasley said. “The main thing is how you respond. Are we going to dwell on it or take this loss, continue to ride down that path? Or are we going to step us and accept the challenge on Tuesday (against the Clippers)?”

Russell’s play will go a long way toward answering that question. This isn’t meant to pin all of Sunday’s loss on Russell, or drag the point guard to no end. His shot-making played a massive role in Minnesota’s first two victories. His talent knows no bounds. There is a reason Gersson Rosas traded for Russell, and his max contract, in February.

He is a special player. Now he needs to show it.

Towns and Russell shared the floor for just one game last season after the trade, before a different wrist injury caused Towns to miss the final 12 games of the season. Minnesota went 4-8 in that span. Still, Russell said that previous experience doesn’t mean the Wolves are accustomed to playing sans their star center.

“We just kind of went out there and played last year. We didn’t have any continuity or any chemistry,” Russell said. “I think that’s still what we’re lacking. We’re lacking chemistry. So we’re figuring it out game by game and we’re going to have nights like this. This is about us staying within the system. When teams are going on runs or calls aren’t going our way, just trying to stay within the system and make the right play.”..

 



They are cursed--by continued bad personnel decisions and bad hiring practices. The organization has a history of decision makers being afflicted by "Smartest Guy in the Room" syndrome. The latest candidate is Rosas. I know the current trend in the NBA is space and pace and small ball. Gerson has taken it down to the next level, which is midget ball. The wolves are just tiny when the line up against opposing teams, with or without KAT. Why he would decide to start the season without any player being within six inches and sixty lbs of a power forward is a mystery. The Lakers and Clippers are the two best teams in the league. They could have beaten the wolves by 50 if they were in the mood. Helpless defense, unhelpful offense and no rebounding. Mismanaged roster. Without KAT, it's hard to see 15 wins this year.

Time to move 'em to Omaha, ice! ;)
 


They are cursed--by continued bad personnel decisions and bad hiring practices. The organization has a history of decision makers being afflicted by "Smartest Guy in the Room" syndrome. The latest candidate is Rosas. I know the current trend in the NBA is space and pace and small ball. Gerson has taken it down to the next level, which is midget ball. The wolves are just tiny when the line up against opposing teams, with or without KAT. Why he would decide to start the season without any player being within six inches and sixty lbs of a power forward is a mystery. The Lakers and Clippers are the two best teams in the league. They could have beaten the wolves by 50 if they were in the mood. Helpless defense, unhelpful offense and no rebounding. Mismanaged roster. Without KAT, it's hard to see 15 wins this year.

Time to move 'em to Omaha, ice! ;)

Rosas has only been in charge for a year and a half, and he's completely reshaped the roster around Towns. It's in significantly better shape than it was when he took over. I think he wanted to trade back and take someone bigger in the draft, but no one wanted to trade up. He took Edwards, who I did not want but looks much better than I thought, and I'll be happy to eat crow if he continues to get better.

Currently Towns is the player the Wolves could least afford to lose. They have no chance against good teams without him. Whether it's Beasley or Culver or Okogie, I think he'll use one or two of them to get a PF at some point this season.

He was able to dump Wiggins and Dieng's horrific contracts. I'll give him more than a year to put the right pieces in place.
 

They are cursed--by continued bad personnel decisions and bad hiring practices...

Time to move 'em to Omaha, ice! ;)

Yep you've laid out their continuous mistakes many, many times. You've said they are godawful. Here you say how they are not only awful but they will continue to be so.

Your arguments for them to be sold and moved have been the only constant in their history.

Omaha? That's laughable. They can't come-up with $1.5 billion needed.

Seattle or Las Vegas?

They do.😇
 



per STrib:

"We're 2-2, which is a good record, but it doesn't show exactly where we're at," Rubio said. "We're way worse than 2-2 right now."


Howl Wolves!!

"When things are going bad, we go our own way and we don't play as a team, we don't move the ball," Rubio said. "If you see the way we played against Utah and the first seven minutes we played tonight compared to the game against the Lakers or the rest of the game [tonight], it's two completely different teams."

Rubio's right. Oddly enough the Wolves were ahead. They were shooting and moving the ball well. If memory serves they had assists on all FG made but 2. They even got back on Defense! Then Rubio hurt his ankle and it all went to hell. "Hero ball" just won't work for them.
 

Getting wacked on the road by the LA teams after losing KAT is one thing, getting wacked by a Wizards team without Westbrook is another. This is a really, really bad performance.

Russell chucking contested threes on the break is ridiculous. I understand he's a gunner but those shots are terrible.
 


I tried really hard to like D-Lo, but he is only a little better than Wiggins. Wiggins took bad long two's all the time. D-Lo takes terrible 3's. At least he can dribble but is actually worse at defense ( if possible). Wolves are doomed.
 



I tried really hard to like D-Lo, but he is only a little better than Wiggins. Wiggins took bad long two's all the time. D-Lo takes terrible 3's. At least he can dribble but is actually worse at defense ( if possible). Wolves are doomed.

And on that note:

7. It's time for D'Angelo Russell to stand up

Russell will drive winning at a high level -- at least in his current role -- only if he gets better at one of two things: getting to the rim (and the line), and defending with vigor.

We haven't seen progress yet this season. Only 6% of Russell's shots have come in the restricted area, below his share in any prior season, per Cleaning The Glass. He has attempted eight free throws in four games. Russell's playmaking has plateaued in part because he doesn't get into the teeth of the defense. (In fairness, Minnesota does not have a ton of respected shooters who help unclutter the paint. The Wolves are getting less than zero from their power forwards.)

Critics have focused on Russell's on-ball defense. He doesn't hold his stance, and has trouble slithering around screens. Some of that is fixable.

His off-ball defense has been just as problematic. He has a tendency to wander and space out -- to hang in no-man's land, or stray from his man when no such help is required:..

Those clips are from last season, but the same habits have dogged Russell early in this one.

The Wolves rank in the bottom 10 on both offense and defense, and they've been much worse with Russell on the floor. That doesn't mean much -- yet.

Alongside both Ricky Rubio and Karl-Anthony Towns, Russell could slide into a less ball-dominant role that suits him -- and might push him toward taking more 3s, and fewer pull-up 2s.

Russell hits those shots at a solid rate. He can lift a bad offense toward mediocrity. But the Wolves have grander ambitions, and to meet them, Russell has to embrace the grimy stuff.

 

Yep you've laid out their continuous mistakes many, many times. You've said they are godawful. Here you say how they are not only awful but they will continue to be so.

Your arguments for them to be sold and moved have been the only constant in their history.

Omaha? That's laughable. They can't come-up with $1.5 billion needed.

Seattle or Las Vegas?

They do.😇
Move 'em to Paducah, ice. ;)
 

Rosas has only been in charge for a year and a half, and he's completely reshaped the roster around Towns. It's in significantly better shape than it was when he took over. I think he wanted to trade back and take someone bigger in the draft, but no one wanted to trade up. He took Edwards, who I did not want but looks much better than I thought, and I'll be happy to eat crow if he continues to get better.

Currently Towns is the player the Wolves could least afford to lose. They have no chance against good teams without him. Whether it's Beasley or Culver or Okogie, I think he'll use one or two of them to get a PF at some point this season.

He was able to dump Wiggins and Dieng's horrific contracts. I'll give him more than a year to put the right pieces in place.
I'm not sure why Rosas got so much praise for getting rid of the Wiggins contract. He brought back an equally bad contract and gave up a very lightly protected first round pick in the '21 draft. The '21 draft is supposed to be very strong. Dlo is similar to Wiggins in terms of effort and lack of defense. The distinction is that he's KAT's friend.

Rosas is building this team around KAT and for KAT. We'll see if it makes a difference in KAT's desire to stick around as contracts and contract length don't seem to make much of a difference once a star decides he wants out.

I agree that Rosas is just getting started and that he seems like a smart guy. My frustration is that, for a guy who loves to make moves, he has put together an uber small, unathletic roster with some obvious gaps for the coming season.

I turned the game on early in the fourth last night and they were down 35 to the 0-4 Wizards on the second night of a back to back on the road w/out Westbrook. Even without KAT and Okogie, that shouldn't happen, especially with the season fresh.
 

Move 'em to Paducah, ice. ;)

Kentucky can't even pay their schoolteachers. You think they've got someone who'll give Taylor $1,500,000,000 to move them there?;)

Wonder who'd come-up with that money to keep the slugs here? :unsure:
 
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I'm not sure why Rosas got so much praise for getting rid of the Wiggins contract. He brought back an equally bad contract and gave up a very lightly protected first round pick in the '21 draft. The '21 draft is supposed to be very strong. Dlo is similar to Wiggins in terms of effort and lack of defense. The distinction is that he's KAT's friend.

Rosas is building this team around KAT and for KAT. We'll see if it makes a difference in KAT's desire to stick around as contracts and contract length don't seem to make much of a difference once a star decides he wants out.

I agree that Rosas is just getting started and that he seems like a smart guy. My frustration is that, for a guy who loves to make moves, he has put together an uber small, unathletic roster with some obvious gaps for the coming season.

I turned the game on early in the fourth last night and they were down 35 to the 0-4 Wizards on the second night of a back to back on the road w/out Westbrook. Even without KAT and Okogie, that shouldn't happen, especially with the season fresh.

I'll agree that last night was unacceptable even without Towns.

DLo has proven he can be an elite offensive scorer over multiple seasons. Wiggins is average on offense at best, and below average on D. He's also a year younger than Wiggins. He's struggled so far this season, but the Wolves have nothing inside currently to take defenders away from him.

I'll also agree that the roster is small, but I wouldn't consider them un-athletic. They have a glut of 6'4" guards, and like I mentioned earlier, I think they'll part with one or two of them to increase their size on the wings.
 

I'll agree that last night was unacceptable even without Towns.

DLo has proven he can be an elite offensive scorer over multiple seasons. Wiggins is average on offense at best, and below average on D. He's also a year younger than Wiggins. He's struggled so far this season, but the Wolves have nothing inside currently to take defenders away from him.

I'll also agree that the roster is small, but I wouldn't consider them un-athletic. They have a glut of 6'4" guards, and like I mentioned earlier, I think they'll part with one or two of them to increase their size on the wings.
Dlo is definitely not elite offensively. Statistically, he's slightly better than Wigs offensively and I'd rather he have the ball at the end of the game than Wiggins. Defensively, they both suck, but I'd take Wiggins if I had to choose. In other words, the two teams exchanged problems with the wolves getting a playmate for KAT and the Warriors getting what looks to be an excellent draft choice. I'd rather have the pick.

Vanderbuilt looks like he might have potential but it's hard to tell because they are giving him garbage time run. If they give him real minutes it will upset the pecking order. I hope they do it anyway.

Yet to be seen if Rosas can convert some extra 6'4" players into a long wing. That would be a good outcome.

They have something in Edwards.
 

Dlo is definitely not elite offensively. Statistically, he's slightly better than Wigs offensively and I'd rather he have the ball at the end of the game than Wiggins. Defensively, they both suck, but I'd take Wiggins if I had to choose. In other words, the two teams exchanged problems with the wolves getting a playmate for KAT and the Warriors getting what looks to be an excellent draft choice. I'd rather have the pick.

Vanderbuilt looks like he might have potential but it's hard to tell because they are giving him garbage time run. If they give him real minutes it will upset the pecking order. I hope they do it anyway.

Yet to be seen if Rosas can convert some extra 6'4" players into a long wing. That would be a good outcome.

They have something in Edwards.

Russell was an All-Star because of his offense. There aren't that many guards who average over 20 ppg and 6 assists, only 9 besides DLo last season. Wiggins has been in the top 10 of scoring forwards one season, but he brings nothing else to the table.

I also like advanced metrics like Offensive and Defensive Box Plus/Minus, and Value Over Replacement Player. For OBPM Wiggins has never been above 1.1, Russell was at 3.8 and 4.0 the last two seasons. That's pushing top 10 in the league for Russell. ESPN him at 8th in the league for their ORPM two seasons ago.

For VORP - Wiggins has never been higher than .8. Russell was 3.4 two seasons ago and 1.4 last season.

Russell has shown he can offer significantly more offensively than Wiggins. He has been awful so far this season, but I'll reserve judgment for when he and Towns can actually play together for an extended period of time.

We'll see about the next draft. It looks better at the top than the latest draft, and if they're in the top 3 they'll keep it. Outside of that it's still a crapshoot, just like every other draft.
 

Russell was an All-Star because of his offense. There aren't that many guards who average over 20 ppg and 6 assists, only 9 besides DLo last season. Wiggins has been in the top 10 of scoring forwards one season, but he brings nothing else to the table.

I also like advanced metrics like Offensive and Defensive Box Plus/Minus, and Value Over Replacement Player. For OBPM Wiggins has never been above 1.1, Russell was at 3.8 and 4.0 the last two seasons. That's pushing top 10 in the league for Russell. ESPN him at 8th in the league for their ORPM two seasons ago.

For VORP - Wiggins has never been higher than .8. Russell was 3.4 two seasons ago and 1.4 last season.

Russell has shown he can offer significantly more offensively than Wiggins. He has been awful so far this season, but I'll reserve judgment for when he and Towns can actually play together for an extended period of time.

We'll see about the next draft. It looks better at the top than the latest draft, and if they're in the top 3 they'll keep it. Outside of that it's still a crapshoot, just like every other draft.
I haven't looked at the advanced stats. I focused on the money and the draft. There was no cap relief and they basically lost the pick unless KAT is out for the year. Rosas was getting a lot of praise for the trade, especially for getting out of the Wiggins contract. He replaced one bad contract with another and more than likely lost a pick. He replaced one passive player with another. He did find a friend for KAT. A slight offensive upgrade and a slight defensive downgrade.
 

‘Good way to lose’: D’Angelo Russell sees progress; Wolves fans see another loss

When D’Angelo Russell tried to find the words to sum up a fourth straight loss, he was speaking from the perspective of a player who has 18 career games in a Timberwolves uniform and sees how much growth has to happen for the youngest roster in the league.

When Timberwolves fans heard it, they did so with ears that have been singed for decades by calls for patience, rebuilding plans and stars that come and go. And with that, Russell was introduced to the predicament that every Wolves coach, general manager and player eventually must confront: Individually, they have nothing to do with the organization’s hapless history. But in donning the logo, they instantly and unwittingly put on all of the weight and the hardship that comes with it.

So when Russell looked at the Wolves’ 124-109 loss to the Denver Nuggets on Sunday, he saw some tangible signs of progress for a team that had trailed by at least 30 points in each of its three previous games. The Wolves led the Nuggets going into the fourth quarter. Russell looked much more comfortable with the ball in his hands and a higher volume of pick-and-rolls. Jarrett Culver seemed to bounce back from a rough stretch with a strong performance. Yes, the Wolves lost, but taking the long view of a 72-game season, the Wolves did things in this game that they had failed to do previously.

“It’s hard to win in this league,” Russell said after scoring 18 points with seven assists and four rebounds. “I don’t think we’re ready to win yet. We’re still figuring out how to lose. Sounds crazy, but the way you lose says a lot about the team. Today, how we lost, was a good way to lose. We did the right things throughout the game. Played hard for 35. The process was right. Just let it get away from us at those small moments. But I think we’ll be all right.”

Calling it “a good way to lose” may not have been the most elegant phrasing, but Russell’s point was clear. The Timberwolves were absolutely embarrassed in losses to the Lakers, Clippers and Wizards, looking completely lost without Karl-Anthony Towns and Josh Okogie. On Sunday, against a team that made the Western Conference finals last season, the Wolves were competitive until a 41-25 fourth quarter. A low bar, absolutely. But the bar was in the basement before Sunday night.

When Russell looks at this team, he sees a bunch of players under 25 years old that have hardly played together and are missing their best player in Towns and their best defensive player in Okogie.

“We still happen to be figuring things out,” he said.

Timberwolves fans, who have seen their team advance out of the first round of the playoffs just one time since its inception in 1989 and make just one playoff appearance since 2004, are worn out. There is little benefit of the doubt offered because of all of the failings of history, 1,500 of them in the regular season, to be precise. It doesn’t matter to them that Russell and Gersson Rosas and Ryan Saunders are still so new in their shepherding of the franchise. They’ve been here for Flip and McHale, for Kahn, for Thibs, for Adelman and Rambis, for Al Jefferson and Kevin Love. They have all said similar things and they have all come and gone.

Rosas and Saunders and Towns and Russell believe that things will be different this time around. They believe in a process that has started to remake the style of play and the roster, to usher in a more modern system with more talent around them. They also believe that to build a sustainable winner and not just a one-season wonder, it will take time. The way they played to start the season with Towns, Culver’s improvement in his second season and the promise of Anthony Edwards are all things they can point to as reasons for hope.

But Wolves fans have heard this all before. Until they actually see the hope manifest in victories, there will be a skepticism that has been ingrained over decades. Until the Wolves start winning, they will keep running smack into the same wall so many have hit before them. That is the unfortunate reality and the enormity of the task that comes with trying to turn around one of the most unsuccessful franchises in professional sports.


Howl Wolves!!
 

‘Good way to lose’: D’Angelo Russell sees progress; Wolves fans see another loss

When D’Angelo Russell tried to find the words to sum up a fourth straight loss, he was speaking from the perspective of a player who has 18 career games in a Timberwolves uniform and sees how much growth has to happen for the youngest roster in the league.

When Timberwolves fans heard it, they did so with ears that have been singed for decades by calls for patience, rebuilding plans and stars that come and go. And with that, Russell was introduced to the predicament that every Wolves coach, general manager and player eventually must confront: Individually, they have nothing to do with the organization’s hapless history. But in donning the logo, they instantly and unwittingly put on all of the weight and the hardship that comes with it.

So when Russell looked at the Wolves’ 124-109 loss to the Denver Nuggets on Sunday, he saw some tangible signs of progress for a team that had trailed by at least 30 points in each of its three previous games. The Wolves led the Nuggets going into the fourth quarter. Russell looked much more comfortable with the ball in his hands and a higher volume of pick-and-rolls. Jarrett Culver seemed to bounce back from a rough stretch with a strong performance. Yes, the Wolves lost, but taking the long view of a 72-game season, the Wolves did things in this game that they had failed to do previously.

“It’s hard to win in this league,” Russell said after scoring 18 points with seven assists and four rebounds. “I don’t think we’re ready to win yet. We’re still figuring out how to lose. Sounds crazy, but the way you lose says a lot about the team. Today, how we lost, was a good way to lose. We did the right things throughout the game. Played hard for 35. The process was right. Just let it get away from us at those small moments. But I think we’ll be all right.”

Calling it “a good way to lose” may not have been the most elegant phrasing, but Russell’s point was clear. The Timberwolves were absolutely embarrassed in losses to the Lakers, Clippers and Wizards, looking completely lost without Karl-Anthony Towns and Josh Okogie. On Sunday, against a team that made the Western Conference finals last season, the Wolves were competitive until a 41-25 fourth quarter. A low bar, absolutely. But the bar was in the basement before Sunday night.

When Russell looks at this team, he sees a bunch of players under 25 years old that have hardly played together and are missing their best player in Towns and their best defensive player in Okogie.

“We still happen to be figuring things out,” he said.

Timberwolves fans, who have seen their team advance out of the first round of the playoffs just one time since its inception in 1989 and make just one playoff appearance since 2004, are worn out. There is little benefit of the doubt offered because of all of the failings of history, 1,500 of them in the regular season, to be precise. It doesn’t matter to them that Russell and Gersson Rosas and Ryan Saunders are still so new in their shepherding of the franchise. They’ve been here for Flip and McHale, for Kahn, for Thibs, for Adelman and Rambis, for Al Jefferson and Kevin Love. They have all said similar things and they have all come and gone.

Rosas and Saunders and Towns and Russell believe that things will be different this time around. They believe in a process that has started to remake the style of play and the roster, to usher in a more modern system with more talent around them. They also believe that to build a sustainable winner and not just a one-season wonder, it will take time. The way they played to start the season with Towns, Culver’s improvement in his second season and the promise of Anthony Edwards are all things they can point to as reasons for hope.

But Wolves fans have heard this all before. Until they actually see the hope manifest in victories, there will be a skepticism that has been ingrained over decades. Until the Wolves start winning, they will keep running smack into the same wall so many have hit before them. That is the unfortunate reality and the enormity of the task that comes with trying to turn around one of the most unsuccessful franchises in professional sports.


Howl Wolves!!
I'm glad D-Lo could find something positive. I only watched the 4th qtr and they got blown away in mere minutes. It is incredible how fast the Wolves can go from a tight game to a blowout. I've seen them do this several times in the last season or so. This will continue to happen as long as they feel the need to start Culver or Layman at the power forward position. If the playoffs aren't part of the plan this year.....how about giving minutes to the true power forwards on the team.
 

I'm glad D-Lo could find something positive. I only watched the 4th qtr and they got blown away in mere minutes. It is incredible how fast the Wolves can go from a tight game to a blowout. I've seen them do this several times in the last season or so. This will continue to happen as long as they feel the need to start Culver or Layman at the power forward position. If the playoffs aren't part of the plan this year.....how about giving minutes to the true power forwards on the team.
In fairness to D-lo, who has a horrendous +/- this year, the game was lost early in the fourth for two reasons: 1) Ricky decided to go from primary facilitator to primary scorer. Denver set the trap and Ricky walked into it. They left him open and he clanked three or four straight shots as Denver opened it up on the other end; and 2) Denver decided to take the game over. They were coasting until the fourth quarter and then they put some effort into it for a few minutes. Game over. Man, it would be fun to have a team that good.
The team only has 1.5 power forwards on its roster. Jared Vanderbuilt, who is unproven, and Ed Davis, who is uninterested. and sort of a center. I'm not sure why they don't give Vanderbuilt a shot at this point. There can't be pecking order sensitivities (Hernangomez, Layman) like there would be if they started Ricky over D-lo.
 

IF the Wolves can be sold to buyers who will keep them here and IF Las Vegas and Seattle get expansion teams, then the Wolves could finally be moved to the Eastern Conference. Where they've belonged all along. That will mean much, much less travel. Probably an easier schedule. Maybe even a bigger local TV contract because means less games starting at 8, 9 or 9:30.

What a potential Timberwolves sale means for NBA expansion

Glen Taylor announced again in July 2020 that he was selling the team. It has not been a brisk process as firm offers have been tepid, sources said.

Taylor, 79, has gotten as far as a term sheet with a group led by Daniel Straus, a New Jersey-based health care magnate and former Memphis Grizzlies minority owner, but the sides haven't been able to finish the deal. They're still talking, sources said, and Straus remains the favorite to get the team, but Taylor's history of pulling the team off the market leaves doubt.

Valuations put the Wolves in the $1.3-1.5 billion range including debt, sources said, less than what Taylor was hoping to fetch. Straus, sources said, revised his offer after it was clear fans would not be in arenas en masse this season, assuring steeper short-term losses...

Within the league office, sources said officials have floated the price tag of $2.5 billion each for two expansion teams in the near future. Unlike other major revenue streams such as TV and ticket money, expansion fees are not split with players. Such a haul could mean about $160 million per team, a windfall that could wipe out the massive debt load that's piling up, and that alone has perked interest in the expansion path..

In recent months, ownership groups interested in moving the franchise reached out to Taylor, but he has turned them down flatly, sources said, which has limited bidders..

The Wolves are viewed upon as an attractive relocation franchise. The Minneapolis Star-Tribune reported in July that a 2016 lease amendment with the city-owned Target Center calls for a $50 million buyout. While that isn't nothing, in a league where teams pay upward of $10 million for scoreboards, that isn't much of a safeguard. Were Taylor willing to sell the team to a group looking to move it, he might be able to get significantly more..

 

Wolves have now lost 5 straight.

Howl Wolves!!
 

Losses are wins in the attempt to keep a draft pick this year rather than lose it to golden state.
 



Losses are wins in the attempt to keep a draft pick this year rather than lose it to golden state.
While I’d normally agree with you, I’m not sure it matters. Going back to KAT in 2015, they’ve had the #1, 5, 7, 6, 1 overall picks, and it hasn’t seemed to make a difference. They are turning into the Cleveland Browns of the NBA. Constant high picks, constant turnover at GM and coach, and a subpar owner.
 




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