2011 recruit visits today

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Rick Mons said:
Couldn't agree more ... but I'm having a hard time discerning what your opinion really is. For example, three comments you've made in this thread are either classical passive-aggressive criticism or indicative of a wavering opinion:

  • I trust Tubby, but forgive me if I'm a little skeptical.
  • Tubby gets things done late though. No need to panic, just wonder a little bit
  • obviously Tubby knows what he's doing, but ...

I'm getting whiplash just trying to follow the compliment which is then snatched away immediately after it's given. ... :rolleyes:
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What I am trying to say is that their absolutely no reason to panic, but I think it should at the very least be discussed what's going on with Minnesota's recruiting, especially with what has happened to White and Mbakwe over the last month. People keep saying that the 2010 class isn't finished, but what are we waiting for? Cory Joseph? If he doesn't sign, then what?
I'm not saying every class needs to be star-studded, but without Johnson, Westbrook and possibly White and Mbakwe next season, Minnesota might be looking for "immediate impact" type players, and Elliason isn't one of them.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
The majority of current Gophers were not Top 150 ranked, namely Damian Johnson, Justin Cobbs, Paul Carter, Devron Bostick, Al Nolen, Dominique Dawson ... why does it matter?

Hollins has tremendous potential to be a fine player NEXT season. Eliason will probably redshirt.
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...because this program is looking to take the next step! That's why is matters.
You don't elevate a program with 3-star guys. Look at all the top programs in the Big Ten (Ohio State, Michigan State, Illinois, Purdue), they all have recruiting classes littered with top 100 talent.

For instance:
Not counting White, Minnesota has four, 4-star guys on the roster.
Michigan State has nine, 4-star guys and two 5-star guys according to Scout.com.
 

You stated "I'm not OK with just settling for a "decent" recruiting class."
So... what are you going to do next? Seriously, what actions will you take? How will this not-OKness manifest itself?

I suggest you enjoy the season we have ahead of us. I think we're in for some fun.
 

sal said:
You stated "I'm not OK with just settling for a "decent" recruiting class."
So... what are you going to do next? Seriously, what actions will you take? How will this not-OKness manifest itself?

I suggest you enjoy the season we have ahead of us. I think we're in for some fun

I have said this on many occasions!!!! I agree 100 percent, this season is going to be great!
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BigGopherFan said:
sal said:
You stated "I'm not OK with just settling for a "decent" recruiting class."
So... what are you going to do next? Seriously, what actions will you take? How will this not-OKness manifest itself?

I suggest you enjoy the season we have ahead of us. I think we're in for some fun

I have said this on many occasions!!!! I agree 100 percent, this season is going to be great!
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I've lost all interest in anything you have to say.
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BigGopherFan said:
...because this program is looking to take the next step! That's why is matters.
You don't elevate a program with 3-star guys. Look at all the top programs in the Big Ten (Ohio State, Michigan State, Illinois, Purdue), they all have recruiting classes littered with top 100 talent.

For instance:
Not counting White, Minnesota has four, 4-star guys on the roster.
Michigan State has nine, 4-star guys and two 5-star guys according to Scout.com.
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LOTS of 3-star guys made 1st team All-American lists this decade.

How Many Stars means absolutely nothing.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
LOTS of 3-star guys made 1st team All-American lists this decade.

How Many Stars means absolutely nothing.
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Actually, guys making All-American as 3-star prospects is the exception, not the rule. And the facts will support that across the board, 4/5-star recruits tend to have better college careers than 3-star prospects. Look at this season's preseason All-American list:
Willie Warren, 5 stars
Sherron Collins, 5 stars
Devin Ebanks, 5 stars
Patrick Patterson, 5 stars
Luke Harangody, 4 stars

I think this proves my point...
 

BigGopherFan said:
Actually, guys making All-American as 3-star prospects is the exception, not the rule. And the facts will support that across the board, 4/5-star recruits tend to have better college careers than 3-star prospects. Look at this season's preseason All-American list:
Willie Warren, 5 stars
Sherron Collins, 5 stars
Devin Ebanks, 5 stars
Patrick Patterson, 5 stars
Luke Harangody, 4 stars

I think this proves my point...
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First, who gives a crap about PRESEASON lists? I'm talking REAL A-A at the end of the season.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/statistics/roster1997-98.html Tubby's best team, ever. No A-A on it. 1-5* 4-4* 5-3* 2-2* and 1-0* player made up the 13 man roster.
 




Friend Of Tubby said:
First, who gives a crap about PRESEASON lists? I'm talking REAL A-A at the end of the season.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/statistics/roster1997-98.html Tubby's best team, ever. No A-A on it. 1-5* 4-4* 5-3* 2-2* and 1-0* player made up the 13 man roster.
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What are you saying then? A preseason A-A list is a compilation of the BEST players in college basketball, which are usually 4/5 star prospects out of high school.
But if you must...
Here is a list of last season's "REAL A-A at the end of the season":
1st team
DeJuan Blair, 5 stars
Stephan Curry, 3 stars
Blake Griffin, 5 stars
Tyler Hansbrough, 5 stars
James Harden, 5 stars

2nd team
Sherron Collins, 5 stars
Luke Harengody, 4 stars
Ty Lawson, 5 stars
Jodie Meeks, 4 stars
JeffTeague, 4 stars
Hasheem Thabeet, 4 stars

I think I proved my point again...
 

These recruiting contests are fun and I enjoy seeing the Gophs sign 5 star and 4 star players probably more than the average fan. It is a seperate race which can be entertaining to people like me. Kentucky clearly won this years recruiting contest and the Gophs have finished high in these recruiting contests over the last two years.
However as much as the fan like me can enjoy seeing my team amass more recruiting stars than another team (especially Wis.) it cannot be an important contest to the coaches. They need to find the guys that they can coach to win as many bb games as possible. If that means getting a guy with lots of stars great! We all can enjoy that. If that means bringing in a guy with fewer stars but whom the coaches believe will be a cog in a winning team then that is what they must do. That is hardly a reason to criticize our coaches.
 

Roy Christensen said:
These recruiting contests are fun and I enjoy seeing the Gophs sign 5 star and 4 star players probably more than the average fan. It is a seperate race which can be entertaining to people like me. Kentucky clearly won this years recruiting contest and the Gophs have finished high in these recruiting contests over the last two years.
However as much as the fan like me can enjoy seeing my team amass more recruiting stars than another team (especially Wis.) it cannot be an important contest to the coaches. They need to find the guys that they can coach to win as many bb games as possible. If that means getting a guy with lots of stars great! We all can enjoy that. If that means bringing in a guy with fewer stars but whom the coaches believe will be a cog in a winning team then that is what they must do. That is hardly a reason to criticize our coaches.
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You bring up an excellent point. Many times a coach will go after his "type" of player regardless of national ranking. Bo Ryan and Todd Lickliter (to a lesser extent) do this in the Big Ten. I believe a coach should go after the best possible prospect no matter what. If a coach has a chance at a 5 star guy, I don't think he'll pass him up in order to nab a player of his "type." More often than not, 5 star guys become great college basketball players.
 



What's the feeling on getting a top rated recruit, maybe having him for a year, two years tops versus getting a solid player, letting him develop, and having him for four years like Westbrook and Johnson? You want the best players available but I like the way Tubby has set himself up with a lot of depth and a mixture of classes that looks to have continuity. I know they don't all leave early, but the glamour schools seem to be able to reload with the studs when they do. I doubt the Gophers can year after year, but I'm comfortable with that if Tubby gets his kind of player and has him for four years.

Different sports and different situations, but one of the theories about the Gopher hockey team is that Lucia has concentrated too much on the top rated kids. He not only has to keep replacing them, but there isn't much team chemistry or pride since the players put individual goals first instead of team goals. We did win the first night but the Gophers got absolutely blitzed the second night by Bemidji State, who had a great NCAA run last spring. I was really surprised to read the Gophers had 17 kids who had been drafted by the NHL versus 1 for Bemidji.

Granted, Monson was the coach instead of Tubby, but the Gopher's experience with his 3 highest rated recruits wasn't all that positive.
 

BigGopherFan said:
What are you saying then? A preseason A-A list is a compilation of the BEST players in college basketball, which are usually 4/5 star prospects out of high school.
But if you must...
Here is a list of last season's "REAL A-A at the end of the season":
1st team
DeJuan Blair, 5 stars
Stephan Curry, 3 stars
Blake Griffin, 5 stars
Tyler Hansbrough, 5 stars
James Harden, 5 stars

2nd team
Sherron Collins, 5 stars
Luke Harengody, 4 stars
Ty Lawson, 5 stars
Jodie Meeks, 4 stars
JeffTeague, 4 stars
Hasheem Thabeet, 4 stars

I think I proved my point again...
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Yep, that's what I'm saying. The POSTSEASON A-A lists count. The PRESEASON lists don't.
 

BigGopherFan said:
You bring up an excellent point. Many times a coach will go after his "type" of player regardless of national ranking. Bo Ryan and Todd Lickliter (to a lesser extent) do this in the Big Ten. I believe a coach should go after the best possible prospect no matter what. If a coach has a chance at a 5 star guy, I don't think he'll pass him up in order to nab a player of his "type." More often than not, 5 star guys become great college basketball players.
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EVERY coach (not just those 2) pursues and hopes to sign his kind of player. NO COACH recruits based on How Many Stars some player gets from a recruiting service or analyst.
 

BigGopherFan said:
What are you saying then? A preseason A-A list is a compilation of the BEST players in college basketball, which are usually 4/5 star prospects out of high school.
But if you must...
Here is a list of last season's "REAL A-A at the end of the season":
1st team
DeJuan Blair, 5 stars
Stephan Curry, 3 stars
Blake Griffin, 5 stars
Tyler Hansbrough, 5 stars
James Harden, 5 stars

2nd team
Sherron Collins, 5 stars
Luke Harengody, 4 stars
Ty Lawson, 5 stars
Jodie Meeks, 4 stars
JeffTeague, 4 stars
Hasheem Thabeet, 4 stars

I think I proved my point again...
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Try this again, please. A decade is 10 YEARS LONG, not 1 year. I said DECADE not just 2009.
 

Mulligan said:
the Gophers got absolutely blitzed the second night by Bemidji State, who had a great NCAA run last spring. I was really surprised to read the Gophers had 17 kids who had been drafted by the NHL versus 1 for Bemidji.

.
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WILL BEATS SKILL
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
Try this again, please. A decade is 10 YEARS LONG, not 1 year. I said DECADE not just 2009.
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I don't think recruiting databases go back a decade in terms of rating kids by stars. But I would guess that 80-90 percent of All-Americans are 4/5 star prospects out of high school. I could be off, but I don't think by that much.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
EVERY coach (not just those 2) pursues and hopes to sign his kind of player. NO COACH recruits based on How Many Stars some player gets from a recruiting service or analyst.
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Most 5 star guys are EVERY coach's type. You can make room on any team for pure skill, regardless of philosophy.
 

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