16 of top 18 on defense third year or more?

[John Galt]

Hilarious - with the I like Claeys so the Gophers would've won 7-9 games while he was the head coach. I don't like Fleck so that won't happen while he is the coach.

He knows they would have won 7-9 games, even though Kill and Claeys won 6 games in 2015. And it would have been 5 if they didn't luck into a bowl game.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

How could you possibly believe that Gopher fans are upset that Claeys won 9 games and won a bowl game? Even the biggest so-called “Claeys haters” thought he was a good position coach, just maybe not a good fit for head coach. The Gophers will win 9 games again soon, don’t let your emotions cloud your judgement.


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I don't know if SON is the one being emotional. The Gophers do not win 9 games very often. To expect that to happen "soon", is a leap of faith.

I like PJ, I hope he gets us there, but I admit, that's an emotional hope/belief.

The take that "we won't win 9 games for awhile" is probably the more logically grounded belief - - you know, based on past experience.

That said. . .what is your definition of "soon"? Like how far away from 9 wins do you think we are right now?

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

If he was a perfect coach, he wouldn't have gotten fired.
That's kind of the point.
How meaningful is 9 wins if you have to get fired at the end of the year to do it?

What? No one argued he was a perfect coach. He was far from it. That said, he won 9 games.

I guess, it depends on your definition to "meaningful". In the grand scheme of things, it's not meaningful. Just like it wouldn't be meaningful if we won 9 games every year for the next 30 years.

But in sports context, how was it meaningful?
Well, there were 8 good Saturdays that year.
We played a meaningful game against Wisconsin. We lost, but that was a fun week/game.
We went to a decent bowl game and we won.

Aren't those things you hope for when you are a college sports fan?

As far as him getting fired, how did that erase any of that?

 

[John Galt]

I don't know if SON is the one being emotional. The Gophers do not win 9 games very often. To expect that to happen "soon", is a leap of faith.

I like PJ, I hope he gets us there, but I admit, that's an emotional hope/belief.

The take that "we won't win 9 games for awhile" is probably the more logically grounded belief - - you know, based on past experience.

That said. . .what is your definition of "soon"? Like how far away from 9 wins do you think we are right now?

Why is it a leap of faith? We paid up and brought in a well-regarded head football coach. If he doesn't win 9 games in the next 2-3 seasons, it hasn't worked out.

 

[Dano564]

What? No one argued he was a perfect coach. He was far from it. That said, he won 9 games.

I guess, it depends on your definition to "meaningful". In the grand scheme of things, it's not meaningful. Just like it wouldn't be meaningful if we won 9 games every year for the next 30 years.

But in sports context, how was it meaningful?
Well, there were 8 good Saturdays that year.
We played a meaningful game against Wisconsin. We lost, but that was a fun week/game.
We went to a decent bowl game and we won.

Aren't those things you hope for when you are a college sports fan?

As far as him getting fired, how did that erase any of that?

Those victories mean something. Yes, it was fun winning those games, but there wasn't any big upset of any major team that year. For a couple games the crowds weren't very large as they beat teams that weren't really that good.
It was more of a result of our weak schedule in my opinion, than it was anything about how good to great that team was. And that is all regarding just winning on the field that year.

There didn't appear to be a plan for the future nor good control of the players, so yes, we won but was it at the cost of the program as a whole.

For some, wins mean everything. Respect for the program is secondary, or comes as a result of winning games.
For some others, respect for the program is primary, wins are secondary which help gain respect for the overall program.

From a program standpoint, that was a really bad year and it made those wins less meaningful.

 

[scools12]

I don't know if SON is the one being emotional. The Gophers do not win 9 games very often. To expect that to happen "soon", is a leap of faith.

According to some around here if Claeys would have still been coaching winning 9 games last year was basically a given. The belief is Fleck inherited a win now roster. Now for some 9 wins won't happen for awhile. That might be grounded in logic but there are those it's grounded in "I don't like Fleck".

 

[corcoran1]

So, the standard we should be using we judging "experienced" players is "experienced = 4th/5th year".

To answer your question though:
Shenault
Dovich
Witham
Beebe
Huff
Huff
Femi-Cole
Oseland
Winston

Those guys should all get quite a bit of PT. I expect big things from Femi-Cole, the Huffs, and Shenault.

"big things"- Jacob Huff and possibly Beebe if they decide to use a FB.
Shenault is either a hero or the worst CB in Goph history depending on who you talk to. Dovich and Oseland will likely be the backup guards at both spots (that is important, it is not a knock)
I hope I am wrong but I think Julian Huff and Femi-Cole will be ST players mostly with Julian subbing for Coughlin/Devers on some passing situations. Winston will be on the 3rd team at either DE position. He is actually a tweener, despite the fact he has worked hard to get bigger.
The guys that are listed above are real contributors, and there is nothing wrong with their contributions, but that is not close to enough contributors for an entire class for a good football program.

 

[PMWinSTP]

What? No one argued he was a perfect coach. He was far from it. That said, he won 9 games.

I guess, it depends on your definition to "meaningful". In the grand scheme of things, it's not meaningful. Just like it wouldn't be meaningful if we won 9 games every year for the next 30 years.

But in sports context, how was it meaningful?
Well, there were 8 good Saturdays that year.
We played a meaningful game against Wisconsin. We lost, but that was a fun week/game.
We went to a decent bowl game and we won.

Aren't those things you hope for when you are a college sports fan?

As far as him getting fired, how did that erase any of that?

I applaud your effort with ftf. To add to what you've laid out, sans the Q4 implosion in Madison, all the other losses were highly competitive. Gophs were in position to win at Penn St and and go to OT at Nebraska.

 

[corcoran1]

Prove my statement wrong...oh that's right you can't, just like you can't prove that TC would have taken us to last place. I'm all for PJ, but don't like when the previous staff gets ripped for the future, which they are not part of. In the one year TC was coach the team won 9 games. I am of the belief and because he is a very intelligent man, that TC learned an awful lot of what it takes to be a HC and would have been a great one for us had he been given the chance to do so, not only on the field in the win loss column, but also off the field as well.

PJ is our coach. He has had one year to show his stuff. On the field last year he showed nothing that leads me to believe he is going to take us to the top of the West. This coming fall he has another chance to show if he has what it takes at the BIG level and can build a champion. Off the field his recruiting azingly has been an improvement when it comes to class rankings and that is all we have to go on at the moment. He has also, been good about promoting the program and having players doing the right things off the field. I like how the spring game was run this year. I am hopeful he can be a great leader of a consistent winning program. We as Gopher fans have been waiting a long time for that to happen.

Just look at the roster of Dlinemen on the team and you know you are wrong. He had no DTs coming in, this staff was largely left with an amazingly understaffed roster of Offensive and defensive linemen, zero B1G QBs, one B1G WR, a depleted dbackfield (the strength of the former staff), one healthy TE. They were however left with two good RBs and 6 good LBs, and a good FG kicker and longsnapper. That was the extent of the talent.
TC was a very good DC, and no way was ready to be the headcoach of a B1G team. I was a fan of TCs, but fortunately Coyle saw what was going on and acted.

 

[corcoran1]

I applaud your effort with ftf. To add to what you've laid out, sans the Q4 implosion in Madison, all the other losses were highly competitive. Gophs were in position to win at Penn St and and go to OT at Nebraska.

This is all true, but the talent was gone after that class. You win with players, and they were largely gone. This staff guys inherited nothing as far as a group of players who could function as a solid offense or defense, there were big holes at key positions. There were not even enough olinemen to practice. There were no real DEs, zero. Winston and Devers are oversized LBs who play high and get run over by power running teams. I can accept TC/Sawvwl as better DCs than Smith, but TC is a terrible O coach. He would have basically had to run Seth Green out of the Wildcat to field an offense last year based on what he wanted to do. I appreciate loyalty, I still like TC and JK, they saved the program, but at this point some of you are in denial about where the program was going, it started heading downhill when JK got sick again..

 

[PMWinSTP]

This is all true, but the talent was gone after that class. You win with players, and they were largely gone. This staff guys inherited nothing as far as a group of players who could function as a solid offense or defense, there were big holes at key positions. There were not even enough olinemen to practice. There were no real DEs, zero. Winston and Devers are oversized LBs who play high and get run over by power running teams. I can accept TC/Sawvwl as better DCs than Smith, but TC is a terrible O coach. He would have basically had to run Seth Green out of the Wildcat to field an offense last year based on what he wanted to do. I appreciate loyalty, I still like TC and JK, they saved the program, but at this point some of you are in denial about where the program was going, it started heading downhill when JK got sick again..

The context of ftf initial post was the 2016 season, as was BLs response, which I added to.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Just look at the roster of Dlinemen on the team and you know you are wrong. He had no DTs coming in, this staff was largely left with an amazingly understaffed roster of Offensive and defensive linemen, zero B1G QBs, one B1G WR, a depleted dbackfield (the strength of the former staff), one healthy TE. They were however left with two good RBs and 6 good LBs, and a good FG kicker and longsnapper. That was the extent of the talent.
TC was a very good DC, and no way was ready to be the headcoach of a B1G team. I was a fan of TCs, but fortunately Coyle saw what was going on and acted.

His point is that it is all speculation where things might have gone, because TC didn't continue as HC. How do you prove it wrong if it didn't happen?

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Why is it a leap of faith? We paid up and brought in a well-regarded head football coach. If he doesn't win 9 games in the next 2-3 seasons, it hasn't worked out.

The only reason that I called it a leap of faith is because it is not a common accomplishment at the University of Minnesota. You'd be a very rich man betting that the Gophers would win less than 9 games every year. It was not a slight to PJ. I think if we win 8 games by 2020, I would say it has worked out. I think he will win 8 games in the next couple of years. So, despite the fact that we hired a well-regarded football coach, it is still a rarity at a place like the U of MN.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

This is all true, but the talent was gone after that class. You win with players, and they were largely gone. This staff guys inherited nothing as far as a group of players who could function as a solid offense or defense, there were big holes at key positions. There were not even enough olinemen to practice. There were no real DEs, zero. Winston and Devers are oversized LBs who play high and get run over by power running teams. I can accept TC/Sawvwl as better DCs than Smith, but TC is a terrible O coach. He would have basically had to run Seth Green out of the Wildcat to field an offense last year based on what he wanted to do. I appreciate loyalty, I still like TC and JK, they saved the program, but at this point some of you are in denial about where the program was going, it started heading downhill when JK got sick again..

My entire point was that winning 9 games in 2016 meant "something". I wasn't, at all, speculating on our prospective win total in 2017 had Claeys been the coach. Someone made an absurd (to me) comment that it didn't matter that it didn't mean anything to win 9 games in 2016.

 

[Dano564]

My entire point was that winning 9 games in 2016 meant "something". I wasn't, at all, speculating on our prospective win total in 2017 had Claeys been the coach. Someone made an absurd (to me) comment that it didn't matter that it didn't mean anything to win 9 games in 2016.

Well, it means something. It hasn't happened here very often, but the with that schedule, people were talking 11-1, 10-2, etc.
The idea was 9-0 heading into Nebraska that year.

September 1 8:00 PM Oregon State* TCF Bank Stadium • Minneapolis, MN BTN W 30–23 44,582
September 10 11:00 AM Indiana State* TCF Bank Stadium • Minneapolis, MN ESPNews W 58–28 41,026
September 24 11:00 AM Colorado State* TCF Bank Stadium • Minneapolis, MN ESPNU W 31–24 44,854

October 1 2:30 PM at Penn State Beaver Stadium • University Park, PA (Governor's Victory Bell) BTN L 26–29 OT 95,332
October 8 11:00 AM Iowa TCF Bank Stadium • Minneapolis, MN (Floyd of Rosedale) ESPN2 L 7–14 49,145

October 15 11:00 AM at Maryland Maryland Stadium • College Park, MD ESPNU W 31–10 41,465
October 22 11:00 AM Rutgers TCF Bank Stadium • Minneapolis, MN ESPNU W 34–32 46,096
October 29 11:00 AM at Illinois Memorial Stadium • Champaign, IL BTN W 40–17 40,090
November 5 2:30 PM Purdue TCF Bank Stadium • Minneapolis, MN BTN W 44–31 42,832

November 12 6:30 PM at No. 21 Nebraska Memorial Stadium • Lincoln, NE ($5 Bits of Broken Chair Trophy) BTN L 17–24 90,456

November 19 2:30 PM Northwestern TCF Bank Stadium • Minneapolis, MN BTN W 29–12 38,162

November 26 2:30 PM at No. 5 Wisconsin Camp Randall Stadium • Madison, WI (Paul Bunyan's Axe) BTN L 17–31 77,216

December 27 6:00 PM vs. Washington State* Qualcomm Stadium • San Diego, CA (Holiday Bowl) ESPN W 17–12 48,704



Look at those wins.
Which one is the signature win for that season? Beating Northwestern at Home in front of 38k?

 

[GFBfan]

Just look at the roster of Dlinemen on the team and you know you are wrong. He had no DTs coming in, this staff was largely left with an amazingly understaffed roster of Offensive and defensive linemen, zero B1G QBs, one B1G WR, a depleted dbackfield (the strength of the former staff), one healthy TE. They were however left with two good RBs and 6 good LBs, and a good FG kicker and longsnapper. That was the extent of the talent.
TC was a very good DC, and no way was ready to be the headcoach of a B1G team. I was a fan of TCs, but fortunately Coyle saw what was going on and acted.

No I'm not wrong as you can't say who would be playing D-Line right now had TC stayed. G. Elmore would have been on the team still at DE last year and we have no idea who he would have brought in. You can speculate all you want on that and say they would have been crap players and I can speculate the same in the other direction and say he would have brought in some All BIG type performers.

If there was such a lack of talent, according to you, PJ should have a shrine built for him to coax 5 wins out of that misfit, untalented, how did they get a D1 scholarship bunch. I on the other hand don't feel that PJ did a very good job of coaching last year and still has to prove he can coach at the BIG level. He did it in the MAC, so I believe he can have success here as well. He certainly has way more support than TC ever got.

 

[GFBfan]

Well, it means something. It hasn't happened here very often, but the with that schedule, people were talking 11-1, 10-2, etc.
The idea was 9-0 heading into Nebraska that year.

Look at those wins.
Which one is the signature win for that season? Beating Northwestern at Home in front of 38k?

People were excited for that year and I looked back at a poll that showed 58 thought we would be ranked at some point in the year, while 11 didn't think we would. The OT loss to PSU really was a blow, which carried over to the following week vs. Iowa, where the O play calling was atrocious. In spite of that, they still went out and beat teams and finished it up with a very impressive Bowl win, when nobody in their right mind thought we had a chance.

As to your signature win comment in beating NW in front of 38K. What does the attendance have to do with the win? Does that factor into the win importance? If so, does NW not get to count the win last year vs. us as that attendance was listed at 30K in Evanston and I would bet there were less than 15K that actually showed up. I'll take a win over anyone in front of any number of people over a loss any day of the week.

 

[Dano564]

People were excited for that year and I looked back at a poll that showed 58 thought we would be ranked at some point in the year, while 11 didn't think we would. The OT loss to PSU really was a blow, which carried over to the following week vs. Iowa, where the O play calling was atrocious. In spite of that, they still went out and beat teams and finished it up with a very impressive Bowl win, when nobody in their right mind thought we had a chance.

As to your signature win comment in beating NW in front of 38K. What does the attendance have to do with the win? Does that factor into the win importance? If so, does NW not get to count the win last year vs. us as that attendance was listed at 30K in Evanston and I would bet there were less than 15K that actually showed up. I'll take a win over anyone in front of any number of people over a loss any day of the week.

My point about that was it was a barometer on where the program was at that point.
It was supposed to be a highly successful season. Big Ten West Champ level. But fan interest waned and home attendance for the NW game, which was maybe their best win of the season, was nothing.
If this 9 win season was so impressive and meaningful, it should draw better than the 38k they got.

The bowl win over WSU was a nice win, but they weren't even ranked end of season. I'd say we had far more impressive seasons with less wins than that 2017 season. (just about any Glen Mason year for that matter. Most of those had a top 25 win at some point or a win over a MSU, PSU, etc.).

Maybe I'm in the minority here.

 

[dpodoll68]

My point about that was it was a barometer on where the program was at that point.
It was supposed to be a highly successful season. Big Ten West Champ level. But fan interest waned and home attendance for the NW game, which was maybe their best win of the season, was nothing.
If this 9 win season was so impressive and meaningful, it should draw better than the 38k they got.

The bowl win over WSU was a nice win, but they weren't even ranked end of season. I'd say we had far more impressive seasons with less wins than that 2017 season. (just about any Glen Mason year for that matter. Most of those had a top 25 win at some point or a win over a MSU, PSU, etc.).

Maybe I'm in the minority here.

Stop citing the attendance for the Northwestern game as indicative of anything. It was brutally cold - nothing more, nothing less. You show your agenda when you continue to bring it up.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Stop citing the attendance for the Northwestern game as indicative of anything. It was brutally cold - nothing more, nothing less. You show your agenda when you continue to bring it up.

Don't feed the troll.

 

[Spoofin]

Hilarious - with the I like Claeys so the Gophers would've won 7-9 games while he was the head coach. I don't like Fleck so that won't happen while he is the coach.

The Gophers absolutely would have won more games in '17 if TC was the HC. You could argue that we would be worse down the road and there was a method to PJ's madness, but PJ didn't care about wins last year. He said so himself and coached like it. Rewatch the MD game for starters.


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[scools12]

The Gophers absolutely would have won more games in '17 if TC was the HC. You could argue that we would be worse down the road and there was a method to PJ's madness, but PJ didn't care about wins last year. He said so himself and coached like it. Rewatch the MD game for starters.


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Yes you can debate on how Fleck went about approaching last season.

I will disagree on how much more Claeys would’ve won last season. There where too many holes to fill the most notable being at QB.

The team was taking a huge step back from 2016 regardless of who the coach was.


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