12-team college football postseason officially approved

[GopherTheJugular]

This was basically the adults saying "now children, play nice and stop being stupid".

I disagree. I think this was schools from the Pac12, Big12, ACC and Notre Dame looking to hold relevance because they know that the real NC game will be played between the winner of the Big Ten and the SEC, and if they let that happen then they are now in the G8 (Group of 8, to go along with the P2 of SEC and Big 10).

 

[GopherTheJugular]

For those that don’t think it will dilute the regular season: last year we would have seen No. 10 Michigan State at No. 7 Ohio State, winner vs. 2. Michigan, in late December and early January.

You just admitted that Ohio State could potentially get another shot at Michigan, and then are trying to claim it won't dilute the regular season????? Michigan shouldn't have to beat them twice. This isn't the NFL.

 

[GopherTheJugular]

If it improves the chance Alabama won't win every year, I'm all for it.

Georgia is the only thing that will prevent Alabama from winning it every year. Georgia and Alabama in college football would be like the Yankees and Dodgers playing AAA ball. That's the difference in level of competition. Sorry for the side rant.

 

[GopherTheJugular]

Your whole post basically boils down to "selection/placement into the post-season isn't entirely automatic and predictable, like it is in the NFL".

No, it didn't. Reread the 3rd paragraph about "eligibility effect". That's FAR more the core of what the poster was trying to say.

 

[GophersInIowa]

They are “warm up games” because no one cares about sos now. If no one is being eliminated then why pay that close of attention early?

Why wouldn't people care about SOS? There would still be 6 at-large spots available for teams that didn't win their conference championship. If anything, this should encourage even more for teams to play better opponents. Because if they lose to a good opponent early on, they can still make up for it. If they win, it really helps them even if they don't win the conference championship.

Programs like Minnesota would benefit from scheduling a good non-conference opponent.

 

[GopherTheJugular]

The difference in my scenario is conference runner ups and also-rans are locked out of the CFP instead of given second chances.

I can see the angle that inclusion of more teams could generate more interest late in the season - and more games (and tv sales numbers). But, using that logic we should move to Mike Leach’s 64 team tournament. Mo Money. Maybe that’s the next step, in all seriousness….

Re: bolded. I'll certainly be on the edge of my seat watching Coastal Carolina vs. Tulane, knowing the winning team will get to go to the playoff and get DESTROYED by a Big Ten or SEC team.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh the excitement. Can't wait.

 

[GopherTheJugular]

The problem with the playoff debate is that most people fail to recognize that FBS is (unofficially) but very practically split-up into two distinct leagues.

There are the 50-60 programs that earn revenue of about 50mm+/ year. Those are the programs that actually may have the resources to be competitive. (And those 50-60 teams all play each other 8+ times/year.)

Then there’s the next 70-80 programs. They may have an interesting team once in a blue moon. But they all play each other 10 times/year. They will likely only play 1-2 teams from that group of 50 that is well-resourced, and they demand huge money to travel to those environments.

People want to create a playoff that accommodates two very separate and distinct leagues. Then throw-in the odd agenda of Notre Dame, and have all decisions be made subjectively by a weird committee representing a myriad of agendas that have nothing to do with football. It won’t work.

This is a nice summary, and very accurate. Nice post.

 

[GopherTheJugular]

Definitely disagree.

More regular season games matter, when more teams have a chance to make it

If only 2 teams, possibly 3, ever have a chance to win it then it doesn't matter if you have an 8 team or 12 or 16 team playoff. What was exciting about the semifinals last year? Please answer.

And yes, in EVERY season in the past 20 years, it was obvious who those 2-3 teams were, I'll have no problem posting it.

 

[Goldmember]

You just admitted that Ohio State could potentially get another shot at Michigan, and then are trying to claim it won't dilute the regular season????? Michigan shouldn't have to beat them twice. This isn't the NFL.

The whole point of my post is was to prove how it dilutes the regular season.

12 teams was probably too many back when there was a power 5. Now that it is the P2 … it is just ridiculous. And the presidents representing all these little conferences know it. But they are colluding with Notre Dame to hold on to what little influence and relevance they still have before it disappears.

 

[Goldmember]

It's more catastrophic to early-season viewing. No one is going to give a rat's ass about games like we have this weekend (Oregon/Georgia, tOSU/ND, etc.) because losing the game won't mean anything now.

This is a problem. And unfortunately it’s one that this lame CFP committee doesn’t care about. (This is one reason the Big Ten probably just needs to withhold any vote and let the CFP run its contract out and disband; whatever format emerges from the vacuum would be better for the B1G anyway.)

 

[disco]

So...they're just like intra-team scrimmages that NFL teams do during training camp? I mean, if the results don't really mean anything....

It's fans with this mentality that are going to ruin the sport for people who enjoyed having "every Saturday matter". And guess what, once you realize that at the end of November we all know who the top 2 teams are, they playoffs will be boring and you'll just go back to nfl games.

I personally watch a lot of college football because I find it more entertaining than the NFL. The NFL game is very much the same regardless of which teams are playing. At least in college there is a wider variety of offenses and defenses.

Also, don't forget that with the expansion of legal sports betting, a lot of these games will be of interest to gamblers. That includes regular season games and the meaningless bowl games.

 

[GopherTheJugular]

The whole point of my post is was to prove how it dilutes the regular season.

12 teams was probably too many back when there was a power 5. Now that it is the P2 … it is just ridiculous. And the presidents representing all these little conferences know it. But they are colluding with Notre Dame to hold on to what little influence and relevance they still have before it disappears.

Re: bolded. Oh, my bad. But I'm glad we agree. Your 2nd paragraph is dead-on as well.

 

[disco]

Re: bolded. I'll certainly be on the edge of my seat watching Coastal Carolina vs. Tulane, knowing the winning team will get to go to the playoff and get DESTROYED by a Big Ten or SEC team.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh the excitement. Can't wait.

This tired old trope again. Nobody is forcing you to watch anything.
Leach was correct when he said that every other level of football is decided by a playoff, and there's no reason FBS should not be.

In addition, unless there is a split between the major FBS programs and the lesser, then there should theoretically be a path for every team to win a national championship. To call the Sun Belt FBS, but say "oh, you can go undefeated but you never will get a shot to play in a playoff for a title" is basically rendering all those teams' seasons meaningless.

 

[GopherTheJugular]

Also, don't forget that with the expansion of legal sports betting, a lot of these games will be of interest to gamblers. That includes regular season games and the meaningless bowl games.

As a gambler myself, I don't think too many people we waiting for some states to legalize it here. I've been betting online for probably 10 years now. Just fyi.

 

[GopherTheJugular]

This tired old trope again. Nobody is forcing you to watch anything.
Leach was correct when he said that every other level of football is decided by a playoff, and there's no reason FBS should not be.

In addition, unless there is a split between the major FBS programs and the lesser, then there should theoretically be a path for every team to win a national championship. To call the Sun Belt FBS, but say "oh, you can go undefeated but you never will get a shot to play in a playoff for a title" is basically rendering all those teams' seasons meaningless.

1st paragraph: I don't need to watch the top 2-3 teams absolutely PUMMEL G5 teams in order to determine who's best. The reason FBS doesn't need a playoff is because the regular season easily showcases who the top two are. So, instead of calling my post "tired old tope" why don't you try and name me a season in the past 20 years where, after the Conf. Champ. games it wasn't clear who was at the top of the mountain. I'll be waiting....

And no, Leach was not "correct". He gave an opinion, which is neither true or false.

As for paragraph #2, NDSU doesn't have a path to the title we compete for. How do you sleep at night? It's so unfair! Never, ever, ever will a Sun Belt team come within 40 points of the SEC champ unless the SEC champ just takes their foot off the gas and rests for the next game. Have you not seen the semifinals recently? Apparently not.

 

[GopherTheJugular]

To call the Sun Belt FBS, but say "oh, you can go undefeated but you never will get a shot to play in a playoff for a title" is basically rendering all those teams' seasons meaningless.

They need to compete for a different championship then, just like NDSU does. The national champ needs to come from a P2 conference. The others teams outside of those conferences don't matter. It's like being upset that an undefeated triple A baseball team can't compete for the World Series. THEY WOULD GET DESTROYED.

 

[disco]

As a gambler myself, I don't think too many people we waiting for some states to legalize it here. I've been betting online for probably 10 years now. Just fyi.

True of many, but the legal aspect of it is definitely taking it out of the shadows for more people.

 

[GopherTheJugular]

True of many, but the legal aspect of it is definitely taking it out of the shadows for more people.

I am glad to hear that. I think it's stupid that people have to drive across state lines to make a bet on a cell phone and then drive back home.

 

[disco]

They need to compete for a different championship then, just like NDSU does. The national champ needs to come from a P2 conference. The others teams outside of those conferences don't matter. It's like being upset that an undefeated triple A baseball team can't compete for the World Series. THEY WOULD GET DESTROYED.

There is no such thing as a P2 conference. This is something you and a few others are making up to fit a narrative. Technically, there is no such thing as a a P5 and G5 conference. There is FBS, FCS, D2, D3 and NAIA.

Even the worst FCS conference champ has a theoretical chance to play for the FCS title (actually called the NCAA Division I football championship) because there is a playoff system. The UMAC champion usually gets stomped in the first round of the D3 playoff. But their conference is included as an auto bid to the playoffs. This is how it should be. This is how every other level of the sport works.

You may not want to watch the games in a playoff. You may want it to go back to the days when everything was decided by polls, and we'd see major bowl matchups. But that isn't going to happen. Never.

 

[GopherTheJugular]

Yes, P2, P5, G5 are technically just nomenclature, but you understood the intended meaning behind the term, didn't you.

Now I'm not at all familiar with the other playoffs and divisions that you talk of, but is there a chance that there is more "even-ness" across the entire leagues?

Just because every other sport does a playoff that way doesn't mean major college football should change - that's just your opinion. It's not right, it's not wrong, it's your opinion. But why give up the one thing that makes you unique? No G5 team will ever win a national championship, so why waste everyone's time? Or are you naive enough to think otherwise?

Final question - how would people have felt if Cincy took out Bryce Young in that game, or if Oklahoma took out Joe Burrow in 2019 even though Oklahoma didn't belong on the same field as LSU?

 

[Ope3]

There is no such thing as a P2 conference. This is something you and a few others are making up to fit a narrative. Technically, there is no such thing as a a P5 and G5 conference. There is FBS, FCS, D2, D3 and NAIA.

Even the worst FCS conference champ has a theoretical chance to play for the FCS title (actually called the NCAA Division I football championship) because there is a playoff system. The UMAC champion usually gets stomped in the first round of the D3 playoff. But their conference is included as an auto bid to the playoffs. This is how it should be. This is how every other level of the sport works.

You may not want to watch the games in a playoff. You may want it to go back to the days when everything was decided by polls, and we'd see major bowl matchups. But that isn't going to happen. Never.

Yes, P2, P5, G5 are technically just nomenclature, but you understood the intended meaning behind the term, didn't you.

Now I'm not at all familiar with the other playoffs and divisions that you talk of, but is there a chance that there is more "even-ness" across the entire leagues?

Just because every other sport does a playoff that way doesn't mean major college football should change - that's just your opinion. It's not right, it's not wrong, it's your opinion. But why give up the one thing that makes you unique? No G5 team will ever win a national championship, so why waste everyone's time? Or are you naive enough to think otherwise?

Final question - how would people have felt if Cincy took out Bryce Young in that game, or if Oklahoma took out Joe Burrow in 2019 even though Oklahoma didn't belong on the same field as LSU?

There most definitely is a distinction between P5 & G5 currently. P5 Champions are guaranteed spots (and the bucks that come with it) in New Year 6 Bowl games.

 

[Com_Cool]

I, for one, look forward to lurking on the heated arguments on gopherhole about this for the next 2-4 years.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Very little chance the NFL plays Labor Day weekend ever again. Lowest ratings ever when the did it for a few years in the 90s.

They will push the Super Bowl to President's Weekend instead.

Did not know that, OK I buy it.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Not directed at me and I am not sure if this overall "harms college football" but I don't see how several (all?) Bowl Games involving teams outside the Top 12 survive.

Those have been essentially made for TV matchups for ESPN to fill programing through December. Now there will be 8 more Play Off games of inventory plus a countless amount of hours for pre-views, pre-games, wrap ups what have you.

With more and more players opting out to go to the pros and/or transfer portal those "also ran" Bowls become even more of a farce. Maybe the money would still work out, but I just don't understand how the value would work out in a more crowded post-season landscape.

Agreed on this, at least for middling P5 vs middling P5 matchups. P5 vs G5 has been dying off.

The G5 may fight to keep some of the low-end bowl games as G5 vs G5 matchups, since likely only 1 G5 makes it into the expanded CFP per year, maybe 2 on a good year.

 

[Some guy]

You just admitted that Ohio State could potentially get another shot at Michigan, and then are trying to claim it won't dilute the regular season????? Michigan shouldn't have to beat them twice. This isn't the NFL.

Yeah. Too many at larges dilutes the regular season

An enlarged playoffs could actually increase the importance of regular season games if there were objective bids for conference champions.

I would love a 10 team playoff with auto bids for conference champs in the top 20. At large bids if the conference champ isn’t in the top 20.

 

[btowngopher]

Why wouldn't people care about SOS? There would still be 6 at-large spots available for teams that didn't win their conference championship. If anything, this should encourage even more for teams to play better opponents. Because if they lose to a good opponent early on, they can still make up for it. If they win, it really helps them even if they don't win the conference championship.

Programs like Minnesota would benefit from scheduling a good non-conference opponent.

There’s four at large spots now and look how Bama schedules.

 

[WriterGoph]

Oof. Thanks for posting this. I see a lot of CFP committee influence. For the first round games some way, some how the matchups will be seeded/arranged to avoid having southern teams travel north, or for tv rating considerations.

I didn't read it that way. It reads that the hosting team (higher seed) will either host on campus or at another venue of that school's choice. Where are you seeing that the committee will be the one moving those games?

 

[disco]

I didn't read it that way. It reads that the hosting team (higher seed) will either host on campus or at another venue of that school's choice. Where are you seeing that the committee will be the one moving those games?

I think it means that there will be funny business in the seeding itself to protect southern teams.

 

[disco]

Now I'm not at all familiar with the other playoffs and divisions that you talk of, but is there a chance that there is more "even-ness" across the entire leagues?

Nope. Check out the first round scores for last years D3 bracket.

2021 Division III Football Official Bracket | NCAA.com

The official 2021 College Football Bracket for Division III. Includes a printable bracket and links to buy NCAA championship tickets.

www.ncaa.com

And this is a 32 team bracket. I'm not advocating that (though I wouldn't oppose it). I think it should be 16. ALL FBS conference champions get an autobid (regardless of rankings), with six at large. I've been saying that for years.

No G5 team will ever win a national championship, so why waste everyone's time? Or are you naive enough to think otherwise?

What are they playing for then? What is the point of playing a game if you literally have no chance to win a championship? If that's how it is, then we need another split in D1 football.

Final question - how would people have felt if Cincy took out Bryce Young in that game, or if Oklahoma took out Joe Burrow in 2019 even though Oklahoma didn't belong on the same field as LSU?

I don't understand the question.

 

[WriterGoph]

I think it means that there will be funny business in the seeding itself to protect southern teams.

Yeah, I guess that will be a paranoia, but I think it's inevitable that a 2nd Big Ten team (or even a Pac 12 team like Utah or Oregon or Washington) will make seeds 5-8 pretty often.