Big Ten to modify officiating on onside kicks.

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Tech Machine said:
You can’t have every play reviewable, but in that case there was a play stoppage and replays everywhere. The powers that be could have fixed it in 15 seconds. Then again they still screwed Virginia Tech against Miami so…..there’s that.
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For all the cameras and tech they have, why would they not have a “goal line” camera angle EXACTLY at the scrimmage line of the kick when they know it’s an onside? I suppose because the offside call is not reviewable. In that case is there one official exactly on the 35 whose only duty is to watch for offsides? I don’t recall from the replay.

Either way that call was way too close to have even been flagged if it was like a hand or the front of a helmet, shouldn’t have been called.
 


MaxyJR1 said:
Offsides is a live ball foul where the play continues. It should be reviewable. Especially in the last two minutes.
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I would only be in favor of kickoff offsides being reviewable in that case. The slippery slope may slow the game down wayyy too much, especially in the last 2 minutes when there are a lot of stoppages anyway. As imaging and AI tech get better the replay will be able to see more and more things that the refs can’t because they’re human. So there will be more hemming and hawing delays as the booth has multiple synchronized Ultra HD angles to review. They need to have a 60 second clock for replay. If they can’t tell in 60 seconds then by definition it’s not “indisputable evidence” to overturn a call.
 

gopherphil said:
You are not fixing anything if you don’t make ALL plays reviewable..
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How about calling penalties already part of the rulebook. Clutching, grabbing, holding ect...occurs multiple times on every play. Then the referees call the penalty when they decide it's a worthy situation. The gophers are guilty as all teams are. CFB needs to raise their expectations of the referees calling the games. It can be done.

A number of years ago Major League Baseball raised their expectations for accuracy of calling balls-and-strikes and the umpires accuracy improved significantly. The top pitchers and hitters no-longer get the balls/strike calls they expected to go their way years ago. The game is better in the end.
 



The official was wrong at a key moment in the game. Does he care that he screwed up? That he may have cost the Gophers a win? Did he lose his assignment for the rest of the season? No,no and no. Sad
 


gopher71runner said:
The fact that it wasn't reviewed is BS. My granddaughter had a play reviewed in D3 soccer match. If they can do that you would think that an OS kick at the end of the game where the outcome is still in doubt would be reviewed!
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It is not reviewable, per the rules.
 

Catechol said:
I would only be in favor of kickoff offsides being reviewable in that case. The slippery slope may slow the game down wayyy too much, especially in the last 2 minutes when there are a lot of stoppages anyway. As imaging and AI tech get better the replay will be able to see more and more things that the refs can’t because they’re human. So there will be more hemming and hawing delays as the booth has multiple synchronized Ultra HD angles to review. They need to have a 60 second clock for replay. If they can’t tell in 60 seconds then by definition it’s not “indisputable evidence” to overturn a call.
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I would add that breaking the plane needs to go away. They have to be touching the line or beyond to be offsides
 



Brick House said:
you cant have every play reviewable, the game would never end. Maybe the last 2 minutes of the half. Even though the gophers lost their opportunity to try and tie or win the game, at some point you have to accept the human element of the game. Not sure why players and coaches can make mistakes all game long, but no one can tolerate it when the refs make an error.
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I think it’s reasonable to say all onside-kicks are reviewable by either team to get the call correct… so many things go so quickly in these plays in a matter of seconds and inches. The rule change doesn’t say anything about making things reviewable, just that changing positions of line judges. #notenough #dobetter
 

Unregistered User said:
It is not reviewable, per the rules.
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I think it’s reasonable to say all onside-kicks are reviewable by either team to get the call correct… so many things go so quickly in these plays in a matter of seconds and inches. The rule change doesn’t say anything about making things reviewable, just that changing positions of line judges. #notenough #dobetter
 

Unregistered User said:
It is not reviewable, per the rules.
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I think it’s reasonable to say all onside-kicks are reviewable by either team to get the call correct… so many things go so quickly in these plays in a matter of seconds and inches. The rule change doesn’t say anything about making things reviewable, just that changing positions of line judges. #notenough #dobetter
 




Putting more officials to monitor offsides will be short lived. Determining who recovers the ball, is it a legal recovery beyond 10 yards, did anybody illegally block or manhandle potential receivers to prevent them from recovery? Stuff 10 yards ahead of the ball is far harder to administer to determine if it's a legal recovery and is way tougher to officiate than offsides. Dumb reaction to a dumb rule.
Just make it the feet. An arm or a head over the line is not a major advantage.
 


Brick House said:
you cant have every play reviewable, the game would never end. Maybe the last 2 minutes of the half. Even though the gophers lost their opportunity to try and tie or win the game, at some point you have to accept the human element of the game. Not sure why players and coaches can make mistakes all game long, but no one can tolerate it when the refs make an error.
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not "every" play should be reviewable but every play with a FLAG SHOULD be reviewable
 

Onside kicks should be reviewable. They're rare, but when they occur almost have the impact of a score in terms of determining the outcome late in the game.
 

howeda7 said:
Minnesota teams getting screwed and causing a rule change is a long tradition.

2008: Twins lose a coin flip vs White Sox and have to play on the road in game 163 despite beating them in season series. Rule gets changed

2009: Phil Cuzzie calls Joe Mauer's double 2 feet inside the line in the play-offs a foul ball. MLB gets replay.

2010: Vikings get screwed in OT of NFC Championship game. Rule gets changed.
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Just a few weeks ago...
2024: Timberwolves lose game 2 after Mavericks challenge an out of bounds call that shows ball went off of Jaden McDaniels, but only because of an obvious foul on Kyrie Irving. Can't apply a foul if it wasn't origninally called so Mav's ball. Rule gets changed after the season.
 


Reminds of that ND Mich hockey game 20 yrs ago. After that cameras were brought in.
 

howeda7 said:
Minnesota teams getting screwed and causing a rule change is a long tradition.

2008: Twins lose a coin flip vs White Sox and have to play on the road in game 163 despite beating them in season series. Rule gets changed

2009: Phil Cuzzie calls Joe Mauer's double 2 feet inside the line in the play-offs a foul ball. MLB gets replay.

2010: Vikings get screwed in OT of NFC Championship game. Rule gets changed.
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You forgot one:

2003: Vikings ahead and the Cardinals throw a pass to Nate Poole to win the game, but he doesn't get two feet down, but the catch stands because he was "forced out". Wasn't the rule changed right after that?
 

On the subject of reviews, one thing that bugs me is the standard of review. If they are going to review every score and turnover anyways, why do they have the indisputable evidence standard? Shouldn't the deference go to the best call based on multiple angles and slow motion, instead of the reply room deferring to a field ref who made a call based on one view in real time while focusing on multiple possible issues?
 

GopherTheJugular said:
You forgot one:

2003: Vikings ahead and the Cardinals throw a pass to Nate Poole to win the game, but he doesn't get two feet down, but the catch stands because he was "forced out". Wasn't the rule changed right after that?
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I had forgotten about this one but deserves a video for long suffering Vikes fans. Heard this on the radio at the time; an all-timer.



 

MaxyJR1 said:
I would add that breaking the plane needs to go away. They have to be touching the line or beyond to be offsides
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Considering the ball has to travel at least 10 yards a strict breaking the plane rule is pointless on onside kicks/kickoffs. Should be based on where your feet are when the ball is kicked. As long as your feet are behind the line you are good. There is no reason to get overly technical with it. In the case of the kick against Michigan for example.....#49 gained zero advantage by having an arm or helmet across the plane before the ball was kicked.

Very different then offsides at the line of scrimmage where being across the line at all before the snap gives the defensive player a significant advantage.

Not really sure what adding another official to the restraining line accomplishes unless the goal is to throw more flags for being offsides.
 

Brick House said:
Blaming the refs for a loss is Loser Talk, plain and simple
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Except when it is their fault and they change the rules in the middle of the season to try to make sure it doesn't happen again.

That wasn't like a missed PI or a missed holding penalty. That was a ref throwing the flag for something he imagines that literally took the ball away from the Gophers on their game winning/tying drive.

There is a difference for hoping the ref will bail you out and hoping the ref doesn't egregiously bail out your opponent. If you can't tell the difference, then I guess we'll just stick with the tough guy talk.
 

60's Guy said:
Putting more officials to monitor offsides will be short lived. Determining who recovers the ball, is it a legal recovery beyond 10 yards, did anybody illegally block or manhandle potential receivers to prevent them from recovery? Stuff 10 yards ahead of the ball is far harder to administer to determine if it's a legal recovery and is way tougher to officiate than offsides. Dumb reaction to a dumb rule.
Just make it the feet. An arm or a head over the line is not a major advantage.
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They also have officials on that line. Who recovers is the last thing they are looking at and easiest to officiate.

1 takes kicker for legal kick
2 take offsides
2 take legal action by kicking team
2 take legal actions by receiving team
Ref takes formation and any fair catch.

They can cover it all and simply adding review would make it pretty clear cut.


Again the gophers likely blocked too early on this play so review likely would have given Michigan more options
 

MNVCGUY said:
Considering the ball has to travel at least 10 yards a strict breaking the plane rule is pointless on onside kicks/kickoffs. Should be based on where your feet are when the ball is kicked. As long as your feet are behind the line you are good. There is no reason to get overly technical with it. In the case of the kick against Michigan for example.....#49 gained zero advantage by having an arm or helmet across the plane before the ball was kicked.

Very different then offsides at the line of scrimmage where being across the line at all before the snap gives the defensive player a significant advantage.

Not really sure what adding another official to the restraining line accomplishes unless the goal is to throw more flags for being offsides.
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My guess is they want the officials that make offsides calls all game to make this call as well.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
You forgot one:

2003: Vikings ahead and the Cardinals throw a pass to Nate Poole to win the game, but he doesn't get two feet down, but the catch stands because he was "forced out". Wasn't the rule changed right after that?
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Not sure on the timing of the change but yes. Hated that rule.
 

So now they will have an official on the line for all kickoffs.

Like anybody gives a shit if they are offsides when they kick it deep!

How about you use instant replay for all onside kicks to determine if they are onside!
 

This is comical, as the official who threw the flag for the offside penalty was not more than 20'-25' from the player he deemed offside. It was right in front of him. This rule change, or official alignment change does nothing to correct this sort of error. The official blew the call. The only change possibly affecting this scenario is making flags for offside on an onside kick attempt reviewable.
 

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