All Things 2024 Minnesota Vikings Off-Season Thread

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howeda7 said:
I'm feeling the Vikings should just stand pat with their picks. If McCarthy slips to 11, great. If not, take the best defensive player at 11 and Pennix at 23. If he's gone, take the best player at 23 and try to get back into the 2nd round and take Rattler.
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This is where I'm at. If we can get Maye or get McCarthy without giving up the 2025 1st, I could be on board.

I'm not sure I trust Kwesi with such a high stakes pick. He's made one good pick in two years. We could get two really good players (DT, OL, DB) with these two picks.

QB's taken in the top 11 the last ten years:

Bryce Young
CJ Stroud
Trevor Lawrence
Zach Wilson
Trey Lance
Justin Fields (12th pick)
Joe Burrow
Tua Tagovailoa
Justin Herbert
Kyler Murray
Daniel Jones
Baker Mayfield
Sam Darnold
Josh Allen
Josh Rosen
Mitchell Trubisky
Patrick Mahomes
Jared Goff
Carson Wentz
James Winston
Marcus Mariotta
Blake Bortles
 


balds said:
This is where I'm at. If we can get Maye or get McCarthy without giving up the 2025 1st, I could be on board.

I'm not sure I trust Kwesi with such a high stakes pick. He's made one good pick in two years. We could get two really good players (DT, OL, DB) with these two picks.

QB's taken in the top 11 the last ten years:

Bryce Young
CJ Stroud
Trevor Lawrence
Zach Wilson
Trey Lance
Justin Fields (12th pick)
Joe Burrow
Tua Tagovailoa
Justin Herbert
Kyler Murray
Daniel Jones
Baker Mayfield
Sam Darnold
Josh Allen
Josh Rosen
Mitchell Trubisky
Patrick Mahomes
Jared Goff
Carson Wentz
James Winston
Marcus Mariotta
Blake Bortles
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I get the lack of Kwesi trust, but if they move up to take a QB, it will be one that has KOC's approval. And right now I do trust KOC's ability to evaluate and coach QBs.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Diggs will turn 31 this season and is in the backside of his career. Plus he’s a head case.

JJ is 6 years younger and just entering his prime. Their value is not comparable.
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I never said it was comparable. But if Diggs, who's still at least a top 15 WR, is worth not even a 2nd round pick, Jefferson isn't netting you 2-3 first round picks.
 

howeda7 said:
I never said it was comparable. But if Diggs, who's still at least a top 15 WR, is worth not even a 2nd round pick, Jefferson isn't netting you 2-3 first round picks.
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Buffalo has no WRs right now and are eating 30 million in dead cap just to dump him. It's obvious they just wanted him gone regardless of what they got back for him.
 


I'm never sure if this discussion belongs more here or in the QB Draft thread, but oh well...

I'm in the "move up for the one you LOVE, at all costs, or bust" camp. I can't support settling for a Nix or Penix, unless there's some way that one of those guys is in their top 2 or 3 picks; possible, but unlikely.

This is a better question, for example; just how much would you bet, with a high degree of certainty, that Nix or Penix would be MARKEDLY better than Sam Darnold? You can't. You don't know. Not saying you know that a Maye or McCarthy would be either, but if one of those guys is at the top of your board, you have to move heaven and earth to get him.

EDIT: I still really, really like Michael Pratt out of Tulane (or even Rattler?) sometime in the middle of Day 2 than I could stomach taking Nix or Penix in the first round. Not even a choice to me.
 


Slim Tubby said:
NE needs a QB so they can draft Marvin Harrison Jr at #3. 😉
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I wish I had done it a month or two ago but I sprinkled some action on Malik Nabers being the first WR taken. Way too much noise and scuttle that a good number of teams have him graded every bit as good as Harrison, if not even a tick above. I had to do it!
 




Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
I wish I had done it a month or two ago but I sprinkled some action on Malik Nabers being the first WR taken. Way too much noise and scuttle that a good number of teams have him graded every bit as good as Harrison, if not even a tick above. I had to do it!
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And would anyone really be surprised if Odunze turns out to be the best of them all? Incredible WR talent in the 2024 Draft. I think Tony Franklin is going to be great, too.
 

Slim Tubby said:
I found it interesting when Schefter said it was actually HOU reaching out to MIN rather than the other way around regarding Pick 23.
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Schefter gets used by NFL teams as much as anyone for subterfuge. It’s how it works.

Trust no one this time of year.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
I wish I had done it a month or two ago but I sprinkled some action on Malik Nabers being the first WR taken. Way too much noise and scuttle that a good number of teams have him graded every bit as good as Harrison, if not even a tick above. I had to do it!
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I would be really surprised if Marvin Harrison Jr is not the first WR taken. I think he is the safest bet to be a great NFL player in this draft. He was Ohio St's entire offense this year and yet no one could stop him.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I would be really surprised if Marvin Harrison Jr is not the first WR taken. I think he is the safest bet to be a great NFL player in this draft. He was Ohio St's entire offense this year and yet no one could stop him.
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Well, there's no fun in betting chalk. Gotta make life interesting.
 



Regarding Diggs, it seemed like I played against him a fair amount in FF during the second half of the season last year in my two leagues; I kept waiting to get scorched, but I recall his numbers were pretty pedestrian during that stretch. Tonight I took a look and here's how things broke down for Diggs last season:
First 9 Games
97 Targets
70 Catches
834 Yards
7 TD's
Every game: minimum of 50 yards (58 lowest total; 5 games over 100)

Last 10 Games (including playoffs)
80 Targets
47 Catches
422 Yards
1 TD
3 Games where we cracked 50 yards (no games over 100)

Now, I don't know what was all happening there--injuries? tougher competition? Buffalo weather? disgruntlement? But those differences are STARK. Diggs, for whatever reason, was not a #1 receiver during the second half of the season last year. Buffalo might have been willing to tolerate his attitude with production like first half Diggs, but certainly not second half Diggs. The Texans better hope they're getting Randy Moss to the Pats rather than Antonio Brown to the Raiders/Bucs.
 

call me crazy - but I'm seeing a lot more articles, mock drafts, etc that have Penix going in the 1st round. maybe it's phony buzz being created by agents, writers or what have you, but after a lot of people were jumping off the Penix train a month ago, now it seems as if people are jumping back on the Penix train.

(Ogee - I saw a mock today that had Penix going to the Raiders, and I thought of you immediately.....)

so let's say for some reason the Vikings cannot trade up to get McCarthy. If Penix is the next QB on the board, do the Vikes take him at #11 - or do they wait and hope that no one grabs him before #23? i think it's possible that Penix might not last until 23.

three weeks of wild speculation remaining.
 

coolhandgopher said:
Regarding Diggs, it seemed like I played against him a fair amount in FF during the second half of the season last year in my two leagues; I kept waiting to get scorched, but I recall his numbers were pretty pedestrian during that stretch. Tonight I took a look and here's how things broke down for Diggs last season:
First 9 Games
97 Targets
70 Catches
834 Yards
7 TD's
Every game: minimum of 50 yards (58 lowest total; 5 games over 100)

Last 10 Games (including playoffs)
80 Targets
47 Catches
422 Yards
1 TD
3 Games where we cracked 50 yards (no games over 100)

Now, I don't know what was all happening there--injuries? tougher competition? Buffalo weather? disgruntlement? But those differences are STARK. Diggs, for whatever reason, was not a #1 receiver during the second half of the season last year. Buffalo might have been willing to tolerate his attitude with production like first half Diggs, but certainly not second half Diggs. The Texans better hope they're getting Randy Moss to the Pats rather than Antonio Brown to the Raiders/Bucs.
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The Bills axed their OC (Dorsey) in mid-November which coincides with the drop in production. They also rallied to make it to the playoffs.
 

coolhandgopher said:
Regarding Diggs, it seemed like I played against him a fair amount in FF during the second half of the season last year in my two leagues; I kept waiting to get scorched, but I recall his numbers were pretty pedestrian during that stretch. Tonight I took a look and here's how things broke down for Diggs last season:
First 9 Games
97 Targets
70 Catches
834 Yards
7 TD's
Every game: minimum of 50 yards (58 lowest total; 5 games over 100)

Last 10 Games (including playoffs)
80 Targets
47 Catches
422 Yards
1 TD
3 Games where we cracked 50 yards (no games over 100)

Now, I don't know what was all happening there--injuries? tougher competition? Buffalo weather? disgruntlement? But those differences are STARK. Diggs, for whatever reason, was not a #1 receiver during the second half of the season last year. Buffalo might have been willing to tolerate his attitude with production like first half Diggs, but certainly not second half Diggs. The Texans better hope they're getting Randy Moss to the Pats rather than Antonio Brown to the Raiders/Bucs.
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Diggs had just 2 TDs in 9 playoff games with the Bills, the same amount he had in five with da Vikes.
 

Ope3 said:
The Bills axed their OC (Dorsey) in mid-November which coincides with the drop in production. They also rallied to make it to the playoffs.
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His bubble screens doubled with the new OC FWIW.

Also it’s his tenth season, he was there before Allen was firmly established as an upper echelon QB (Diggs’ first year in Buffalo is when he became an All Pro) and it’s Ryan and Stroud’s locker room already, so he can’t diva out there or they can just cut him, as they didn’t trade much for him.
 
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short ornery norwegian said:
call me crazy - but I'm seeing a lot more articles, mock drafts, etc that have Penix going in the 1st round. maybe it's phony buzz being created by agents, writers or what have you, but after a lot of people were jumping off the Penix train a month ago, now it seems as if people are jumping back on the Penix train.

(Ogee - I saw a mock today that had Penix going to the Raiders, and I thought of you immediately.....)

so let's say for some reason the Vikings cannot trade up to get McCarthy. If Penix is the next QB on the board, do the Vikes take him at #11 - or do they wait and hope that no one grabs him before #23? i think it's possible that Penix might not last until 23.

three weeks of wild speculation remaining.
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If that is the scenario and they really want Penix, then you just take him at #11 IMO. There will still be good DL options at 23.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
call me crazy - but I'm seeing a lot more articles, mock drafts, etc that have Penix going in the 1st round. maybe it's phony buzz being created by agents, writers or what have you, but after a lot of people were jumping off the Penix train a month ago, now it seems as if people are jumping back on the Penix train.

(Ogee - I saw a mock today that had Penix going to the Raiders, and I thought of you immediately.....)

so let's say for some reason the Vikings cannot trade up to get McCarthy. If Penix is the next QB on the board, do the Vikes take him at #11 - or do they wait and hope that no one grabs him before #23? i think it's possible that Penix might not last until 23.

three weeks of wild speculation remaining.
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Some of the knee jerk reaction over the NC game settling down. Penix has a great arm....and when he's on....he can lace throws into incredibly tight windows. Think some injury concerns are holding him back.....but if the Vikings don't move up, which I am against if it involves next year's first rounder, then taking Penix at the backend of the first would be my preference (assuming that Maye or McCarthy don't fall to 11).
 

Texans are the first team in NFL in history to add a 100 catch receiver, 1,000 running back and 10 sack defensive player to their team on an off season - all because they hit on CJ. Love that they are all in, the complete antithesis of the Pokes. Best team in Tejas🤠


The moral of the story, is this is the year to go for broke and draft a rookie QB - that’s obviously the frickin secret sauce.

If we whiff, oh well. At least we don’t go back to the dugout without taking a swing - - the ball doesn’t go over the fence unless you take a hack.
 
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coolhandgopher said:
Regarding Diggs, it seemed like I played against him a fair amount in FF during the second half of the season last year in my two leagues; I kept waiting to get scorched, but I recall his numbers were pretty pedestrian during that stretch. Tonight I took a look and here's how things broke down for Diggs last season:
First 9 Games
97 Targets
70 Catches
834 Yards
7 TD's
Every game: minimum of 50 yards (58 lowest total; 5 games over 100)

Last 10 Games (including playoffs)
80 Targets
47 Catches
422 Yards
1 TD
3 Games where we cracked 50 yards (no games over 100)

Now, I don't know what was all happening there--injuries? tougher competition? Buffalo weather? disgruntlement? But those differences are STARK. Diggs, for whatever reason, was not a #1 receiver during the second half of the season last year. Buffalo might have been willing to tolerate his attitude with production like first half Diggs, but certainly not second half Diggs. The Texans better hope they're getting Randy Moss to the Pats rather than Antonio Brown to the Raiders/Bucs.
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Diggs is a major, major malcontent. Period. Just how bad do you think it had to be for the Bills to eat over $30M in dead cap hit just to get rid of him, for a relatively minimal pick next year? It had to be really, really bad.

Like Lombardi says, there are several different kinds of trades. One kind is the "we're one player away" trade (like the Vikings going after Herschel!); this particular trade is the "get him out of the f'ng building" kind of trade. Get rid of him at all costs. And they did.

This last year, Diggs was all the way down to just over 11 yards per completion; not long ago he was over 18 ypc. He's not the same player

Just absolutely painful to listen to some of the Minnesota sports podcast earlier today, or whatever it's called; the one with Luke Inman, Luke Braun, Arif Hasan, and a couple other guys. Good Lord, Hasan is just unlistenable; decided this would a good time to essentially say that "Bills management" should be shouldering a huge portion of blame here, for a player that has a history of being a malcontent. I had to turn it off it was so bad. Oooffff.
 

Mel Kiper believes Minnesota Vikings trading to No. 5 for JJ McCarthy would be ‘overdrafting’​


There are very few prospects who have become more divisive in the 2024 NFL Draft than Michigan Wolverines quarterback JJ McCarthy.

Now, with McCarthy seeming to move up draft boards, NFL Draft analyst Mel Kiper shared some thoughts on him. In particular, he explained why the Minnesota Vikings trading up to No. 5 to draft McCarthy, as Field Yates suggested in his latest mock draft, would be overdrafting him.

“Little bit [concerned]. It is overdrafting a quarterback,” Kiper said. “I had him at 14. I know others have him even lower than that. So, that protects you against doing exactly that, but Minnesota made that move to get 11 and 23, the 23rd pick for a reason, to move up.”

One idea that Mel Kiper had was that it would make sense for McCarthy’s former college coach Jim Harbaugh, now coaching the Los Angeles Chargers, to trade back with Minnesota to accumulate picks and help send McCarthy to a good spot with Minnesota.

“And, for Jim Harbaugh, JJ McCarthy is his guy and JJ McCarthy can benefit the Chargers by the fact that somebody like Minnesota will move up, keeps him in Big Ten country. Michigan to the Minnesota Vikings. That allows Jim Harbaugh and the Chargers to get a couple picks. They need a tackle and a receiver. Now, it does take them out of a situation to get an elite wideout, but they do get a receiver at some point because of the depth at that spot,” Kiper said.

“But certainly for JJ I do think it’s a little high at that spot in terms of the elite players in this Draft. I think he’s more of a mid-first. So, if you grade him there, like I do, you don’t take him up in that rarefied air of the top five or six of the first round.”

This is a deep draft, especially on the offensive side of the ball. However, quarterback remains the most important position and teams are desperate to find theirs, so it’s a position that tends to get taken earlier in the draft than others.

Minnesota has talent but needs a quarterback. So, it’s easy to see the appeal in going and getting one they might be excited about.

 

Slim Tubby said:

Mel Kiper believes Minnesota Vikings trading to No. 5 for JJ McCarthy would be ‘overdrafting’​


There are very few prospects who have become more divisive in the 2024 NFL Draft than Michigan Wolverines quarterback JJ McCarthy.

Now, with McCarthy seeming to move up draft boards, NFL Draft analyst Mel Kiper shared some thoughts on him. In particular, he explained why the Minnesota Vikings trading up to No. 5 to draft McCarthy, as Field Yates suggested in his latest mock draft, would be overdrafting him.

“Little bit [concerned]. It is overdrafting a quarterback,” Kiper said. “I had him at 14. I know others have him even lower than that. So, that protects you against doing exactly that, but Minnesota made that move to get 11 and 23, the 23rd pick for a reason, to move up.”

One idea that Mel Kiper had was that it would make sense for McCarthy’s former college coach Jim Harbaugh, now coaching the Los Angeles Chargers, to trade back with Minnesota to accumulate picks and help send McCarthy to a good spot with Minnesota.

“And, for Jim Harbaugh, JJ McCarthy is his guy and JJ McCarthy can benefit the Chargers by the fact that somebody like Minnesota will move up, keeps him in Big Ten country. Michigan to the Minnesota Vikings. That allows Jim Harbaugh and the Chargers to get a couple picks. They need a tackle and a receiver. Now, it does take them out of a situation to get an elite wideout, but they do get a receiver at some point because of the depth at that spot,” Kiper said.

“But certainly for JJ I do think it’s a little high at that spot in terms of the elite players in this Draft. I think he’s more of a mid-first. So, if you grade him there, like I do, you don’t take him up in that rarefied air of the top five or six of the first round.”

This is a deep draft, especially on the offensive side of the ball. However, quarterback remains the most important position and teams are desperate to find theirs, so it’s a position that tends to get taken earlier in the draft than others.

Minnesota has talent but needs a quarterback. So, it’s easy to see the appeal in going and getting one they might be excited about.

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It comes down to getting a QB you really believe in. I know if the pats trade out of #3, id be concerned since they need a qb
 
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I get a bit irked with Kiper and others who have this idea that players should only be chosen in the appropriate spot of the draft.

"No - you can't take that player at #8 - I have him graded at #15, and if you take him at #8, we will spend the rest of the draft screaming that you REACHED for him at #8!"

who gives a rat's butt - outside of Kiper and the other draft-nicks.

If a team likes a player, and thinks that player fills a need, and that player is available, then take that player.

we only hear about reaching when the pick doesn't pan out. If you "reach" for someone and he turns into a solid player, all of the "reaching" talk is forgotten.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I get a bit irked with Kiper and others who have this idea that players should only be chosen in the appropriate spot of the draft.

"No - you can't take that player at #8 - I have him graded at #15, and if you take him at #8, we will spend the rest of the draft screaming that you REACHED for him at #8!"

who gives a rat's butt - outside of Kiper and the other draft-nicks.

If a team likes a player, and thinks that player fills a need, and that player is available, then take that player.

we only hear about reaching when the pick doesn't pan out. If you "reach" for someone and he turns into a solid player, all of the "reaching" talk is forgotten.
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Used to love Kiper's work and everything he did in the months leading up to the draft every year, but honestly, since ESPN went to shit and I stopped watching the network altogether, I had forgotten that he was even still in the game. I would imagine, with all the other platforms popping up everywhere and younger and younger people getting in the game and gaining momentum, he doesn't have near the following he used to.

I'll worry about whether or not the Vikings "reached" with their pick first, when they actually MAKE the pick, and second, if the player works out.

Like Bill Walsh used to say, it's not where they were picked, it's how they PLAY.
 

Hey Mel, you dipschit...........you say you have him going at 14. That means they are picking him at 14 to be their franchise quarterback.

Yet trading up for this franchise qb would be an overpay!

What the hell is he blabbering about this time?
 



kg21 said:
Hey Mel, you dipschit...........you say you have him going at 14. That means they are picking him at 14 to be their franchise quarterback.

Yet trading up for this franchise qb would be an overpay!

What the hell is he blabbering about this time?
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What he's saying is drafting JJ around 14 is proper value. Using your draft capital to move up to 4/5 to grab him there is poor value and use of assets.

However, if JJ falls to 6 naturally, the NYG wouldn't need to surrender precious draft picks making it a more sensible QB reach despite the overall player ranking differential.
 

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