An image that keeps flashing in my brain

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Schnauzer

Schnauzer

Pretty Sure You are Wrong
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Of course Decker's first touchdown on Saturday may go down as his all-time greatest catch and touchdown. Amazing.

But, the image I can't purge from my brain is this:

Sean Cattouse makes a great, but unsuccessful hit. He rises to his feet, looks down at Decker holding the ball, sees the ref signal touchdown, hears an incredible din from the home crowd and the rouser begin to play. His reaction? Stand above Decker while pumping his head/fists and flexing. Yes Sean, that was a mighty hit.

I have watched in astonishment for years as players first got pumped over making a big hit on effective 7 yard gains, then FIRST DOWNS or long gains, and now the final frontier... an opposing team TOUCHDOWN.

What a tool.
 

Schnauzer said:
Of course Decker's first touchdown on Saturday may go down as his all-time greatest catch and touchdown. Amazing.

But, the image I can't purge from my brain is this:

Sean Cattouse makes a great, but unsuccessful hit. He rises to his feet, looks down at Decker holding the ball, sees the ref signal touchdown, hears an incredible din from the home crowd and the rouser begin to play. His reaction? Stand above Decker while pumping his head/fists and flexing. Yes Sean, that was a mighty hit.

I have watched in astonishment for years as players first got pumped over making a big hit on effective 7 yard gains, then FIRST DOWNS or long gains, and now the final frontier... an opposing team TOUCHDOWN.

What a tool.
Click to expand...

It just reflects the whole discipline thing a lot of us posted about yesterday. "It's all about me".

Remember Kenny Houston celebrating his broken up pass in OT against the Pack a few years back? While he's celebrating, the Pack receiver caught the deflection and scored the winning TD.

MOST players act like morons. We hardly ever notice the few that don't.
 

Kind of like the USC player who celebrated his tackle on the play where UW was just centering the ball in the middle of the field to set up the winning field goal in one of the biggest upsets in recent history.
 

ESPN feed didn't show it

If you were at the game, you saw something that wasn't on the broadcast. If you're going by the broadcast, then you might be combining multiple images into a single composite of poor sportsmanship.

ESPN showed Cattouse disentangling from Decker after the hit, and then no more of Cattouse.
It was a heck of a hit - one most fanbases would likely be excited about if it was performed by their defense - and understandable how a db would be pumped up by it, and also understandable how Decker would be heralded for completing the catch. I wonder how much more signing money he just made with that one impressive highlight.
That said, if Cattouse had led with his left shoulder instead of his right, to Decker's left arm (holding the ball), he might have dislodged it.

The egregious showboating on the ESPN broadcast was later:
8:32 in the 2nd: Green incompetion, Hagan flexes to the sideline. Apparently the fans' proximity to the opposing team's bench lets them heckle the players, so they probably got in Hagan's head. Good homefield benny. It doesn't help Hagan's case that he was flat-out burned by Decker later in the game.

2:31 in the 2nd: Cattouse taunts Stoudermire and takes a flop. Cattouse's acting career is dead - that was a laughable dive, practically punter-worthy - but perhaps he has a future in major league soccer.
 

I was at the game and it was right in front of me, in section 133.
 


If you are a fan of child psychology there are some reports circulating around it is a cultural habbit that has started from adults asking specifically how they did, and not the team.

adult: "Hey I heard you had a baseball game last night"
kid: "yup"
adult: "how did you do?"
kid: "I got 3 hits"
adult: "that is great"

If you change it to how did the team do, and not worry about how the individual did, then you start bringing the team before the individual again.


But of course, you have to buy into child psychology.
 

I studied Developmental Psychology and that sounds silly to me. Especially when it comes to baseball that has always made a point of individual counting stats.

I would say it has more to do with the fact that we reward huge hits and expect our defensive backs to be enforcers on the field.
 

tokuno said:
If you were at the game, you saw something that wasn't on the broadcast. If you're going by the broadcast, then you might be combining multiple images into a single composite of poor sportsmanship.

ESPN showed Cattouse disentangling from Decker after the hit, and then no more of Cattouse.
It was a heck of a hit - one most fanbases would likely be excited about if it was performed by their defense - and understandable how a db would be pumped up by it, and also understandable how Decker would be heralded for completing the catch. I wonder how much more signing money he just made with that one impressive highlight.
That said, if Cattouse had led with his left shoulder instead of his right, to Decker's left arm (holding the ball), he might have dislodged it.

The egregious showboating on the ESPN broadcast was later:
8:32 in the 2nd: Green incompetion, Hagan flexes to the sideline. Apparently the fans' proximity to the opposing team's bench lets them heckle the players, so they probably got in Hagan's head. Good homefield benny. It doesn't help Hagan's case that he was flat-out burned by Decker later in the game.

2:31 in the 2nd: Cattouse taunts Stoudermire and takes a flop. Cattouse's acting career is dead - that was a laughable dive, practically punter-worthy - but perhaps he has a future in major league soccer.
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That flop was pretty funny, definitely worthy of premier league soccer highlights. It was a dumb move on both sides.
 

Too many people are looking to make the highlight film. I've always hated those hits that are all shoulder and no arms. Hit with the shoulder AND wrap up with the arms! Those kind of hits get you on the highlight film, but can get you burned if the guy doesn't actually go down. That infamous play where the huy is doing a celebration as the Packer is running in to the end zone is a classic.

As far as the baseball example goes, I don't think it has anything to do with child psychology, it's just a question of what people treat as important. Stats are nice, but winning the game is better. It sucks when your team loses, even if you had a good game. It may have more to do with parent psychology than child psychology. :)
 



Khaliq said:
I studied Developmental Psychology and that sounds silly to me. Especially when it comes to baseball that has always made a point of individual counting stats.

I would say it has more to do with the fact that we reward huge hits and expect our defensive backs to be enforcers on the field.
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Someone handed me a paper copy of the article and I can't remember the title and my google skills fail me. It is a new concept that goes against common things I had read before which include emphasize the individual's role so they can understand how and where they can improve to help the team get better.

The topic was interesting b/c it suggested that we have totally dropped the how did your team do, or it is an after thought. It doesn't matter if you win or lose as long as you do well kind of thinking.

My psychology knowledge is pretty small, so maybe the article is a total outlier, but it was interesting either way.
 

Well, I'd have to see the article but there are so many confounding variables there I don't know how you could test for what effect that really has on behavior years down the road.

Psych research is tough because a lot of conjecture gets mixed in and so many of the conclusions are difficult to falsify. I'd tend to agree with RodentRampage that it's a matter of parenting more than it is a focus on individual statistics.
 

Little League parents are notorious for only caring about how their own kid does or how much playing time their kids gets. There does need to be a balance between individual performance and team performance. If I'm a college recruiter, I'm not going to overlook a good player just because the team does poorly. At the same time, I want to know if this player is a team player: does he do what he needs to do to help his team win, or does he just do what helps his own stats?
 

Khaliq said:
Well, I'd have to see the article but there are so many confounding variables there I don't know how you could test for what effect that really has on behavior years down the road.

Psych research is tough because a lot of conjecture gets mixed in and so many of the conclusions are difficult to falsify. I'd tend to agree with RodentRampage that it's a matter of parenting more than it is a focus on individual statistics.
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It was an article aimed at parents. I have a spirited kid, so I tend to have to read more then the next parent on how to direct his energy to positive things :).
 



Hmm . . . guilty as charged

monk10 said:
If you change it to how did the team do, and not worry about how the individual did, then you start bringing the team before the individual again.
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Intriguing.

I have young children, and they do strive to please us, so they are influenced by our values, which are manifest in the questions we ask.
You've given me a "point to ponder", and I'm going to pay closer attention to what I'm implying by the questions I ask, not only about their competitive activities, but also social interaction and school work.

I don't want to handicap them with expectations against our mores, like implying they should subordinate themselves to their peers, but given the preponderance of non-family influence on them (e.g. the on-field display that started this thread), I do think it would help if they hear and see Mom & Dad placing a value on service to others and the greater good (the team's goals, in this instance).

Thanks, again. Can't wait to discuss this across the dinner table tonight.
 

"If you change it to how did the team do, and not worry about how the individual did, then you start bringing the team before the individual again.


Socialist.;)
 


Iceland12 said:
"If you change it to how did the team do, and not worry about how the individual did, then you start bringing the team before the individual again.


Socialist.;)
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Hahahahhahahahahahaha
 

RodentRampage said:
Little League parents are notorious for only caring about how their own kid does or how much playing time their kids gets. There does need to be a balance between individual performance and team performance.
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In response to Monk's post.

The first question should always be, "did you have fun?"
 

All I know is Cattouse crushed Decker, knocked him 1/2 out cold and Cal fans should have been PUMPED. I immediately thought "Man I wsh that guy played for us!". The only thing was Decker is an All American and amazingly caught the damn ball for a TD!

It should be noted that Green DID hear footsteps and let a catchable pass go. The way I saw it, the safety started jawing at him about getting scared and he reacted. I'd rather my guy show he's tough by catching the pass than shoving the safety for teasing him.
 

Costa Rican Gopher said:
All I know is Cattouse crushed Decker, knocked him 1/2 out cold and Cal fans should have been PUMPED. I immediately thought "Man I wsh that guy played for us!". The only thing was Decker is an All American and amazingly caught the damn ball for a TD!

It should be noted that Green DID hear footsteps and let a catchable pass go. The way I saw it, the safety started jawing at him about getting scared and he reacted. I'd rather my guy show he's tough by catching the pass than shoving the safety for teasing him.
Click to expand...

Just going off my memory from the game, but wasn't it Stoudermire that shoved him?
 

I love it when players have enough discipline to not take the bait. That way, instead of offsetting fouls, you might get 15 free yards for your team. Although refs sometimes won't call the initial foul unless the other player retaliates, then they will call penalities on both, which only encourages retailiation.
 

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