Philip Nelson Is Leaving The Gopher Program UPDATED 1/29: Transferring to Rutgers

[tjgopher]

And yet, Leidner still could not win the starting job away from him. Hmm...

Well, I think the fact that Phil got the quick hook in the bowl game tells you enough.

This staff had invested a lot of equity into Phillip as a starter. Even if Leidner was outperforming him in practice for stretches last year (and I have no idea if he was), they likely weren't going to pull the plug on Phillip. He had more experience and had shown enough flashes to keep hoping he'd pull through. And, he did pull through during most of that four-game span. But, he clearly didn't take the next step and I think it became apparent to the coaches during bowl prep, and removed from the day-to-day grind of a regular season, that Leidner had to be given another shot. And, Phil got yanked in a hurry in Houston. The staff was ready. Based on what we're reading it seems Phil was told the job was up for grabs this spring, so the staff, in essence, hit the reset button. Clearly, they were not all that pleased with how Philip had played for the final 3 games of the season. So, I'm not sure we should say Leidner must be terrible if he can't beat out Nelson. Lots of variables there.

 

[John Galt]

Well, I think the fact that Phil got the quick hook in the bowl game tells you enough.

This staff had invested a lot of equity into Phillip as a starter. Even if Leidner was outperforming him in practice for stretches last year (and I have no idea if he was), they likely weren't going to pull the plug on Phillip.

Sure they would have. Phil was so bad against Iowa that Mitch got the nod to start against Michigan, and then the first 3 series against Northwestern. Mitch was even worse, which is why they went back to Phil.

 

[Spoofin]

70 pages of the same argument. Some folks think Nelson was better and some think Liedner was better. Can we all just agree that neither played all that well consistently and that neither one was much better or worse than the other? Very tiring thread.

 

[tjgopher]

Sure they would have. Phil was so bad against Iowa that Mitch got the nod to start against Michigan, and then the first 3 series against Northwestern. Mitch was even worse, which is why they went back to Phil.

Phil was hurt. That's why he didn't start vs. Michigan. Mitch didn't "beat him out." Coaching staff wasn't going to go so far as to say Mitch was the starting QB at that point of the season with all they had invested in Phillip.

Bottom line, is neither guy was all that great. And, now it really doesn't matter, since Phil chose not to stick around to fight the good fight.

 

[Lakeville Goldy]

I think they should have taken turns starting the game, playing one series then pulling the QB for the other to finish the game, then starting that QB the next game, pulling him after a series...

It just seemed like when a QB came in they looked better than whoever they replaced, but when they were handed the keys for the next game they couldn't drive.

Losing Nelson isn't losing Peyton Manning. Losing him isn't losing Carson Palmer (answer to Btown Gopher's post). But losing a starting QB without a definitive starter behind him hurts. At times the offense seemed to have a little more pep or spring in their step under Leidner. Other times it seemed to just fall apart. But neither was definitively significantly better than the other and losing either wasn't a good thing. That said, it is what it is and we need to move on. Hopefully one of the other QB's (Leidner, Streveller, McKinzy, etc.) makes us forget about Nelson.

 

[tikited]

I'm about ready to move on, but it's still in discussion because of the moronic comments from some on here saying that Nelson is "easily replaceable." Given Nelson's lack of production in many key games, I wish I could say that he is "easily replaceable." But when I look at the current roster, he obviously isn't. 8 weeks ago, the staff still thought he gave us the best chance to win. Last I checked, here are the current options:

1. Leidner, who couldn't surpass Nelson despite some horrific games by Phil.
2. Streveler, who broke his hand and may not be able to play QB ever again. Zero career games, and little recruiting hype.
3. McKinzy, who has been on campus for about a month.
4. A group of PWOs who have been with the team for less than a year.

In light of those options, it would be very beneficial to have Nelson back for his junior year.

Nowhere close to being as moronic as your statement that Mitch is the worst starting QB in Gopher history. His stats were better throwing and passing as a Freshman than Nelsons. His arm is better than Nelson's. As I, and others, have written...both are not solid qb's at this point. Go ahead though and wring your hands at the prospect at losing a career 50% guy-a guy who didn't want to have to actually compete for the starting job.

 

[e.bigelow]

Well, I think the fact that Phil got the quick hook in the bowl game tells you enough.

This staff had invested a lot of equity into Phillip as a starter. Even if Leidner was outperforming him in practice for stretches last year (and I have no idea if he was), they likely weren't going to pull the plug on Phillip. He had more experience and had shown enough flashes to keep hoping he'd pull through. And, he did pull through during most of that four-game span. But, he clearly didn't take the next step and I think it became apparent to the coaches during bowl prep, and removed from the day-to-day grind of a regular season, that Leidner had to be given another shot. And, Phil got yanked in a hurry in Houston. The staff was ready. Based on what we're reading it seems Phil was told the job was up for grabs this spring, so the staff, in essence, hit the reset button. Clearly, they were not all that pleased with how Philip had played for the final 3 games of the season. So, I'm not sure we should say Leidner must be terrible if he can't beat out Nelson. Lots of variables there.

I agree with most of your post. Mine was moreso a response to someone just saying that Nelson was terrible and Leidner was much better. When, in reality, it was an apples to apples comparison. Neither QB was particualrily spectacular for the vast majority of their respective careers so far. You are correct, lots of variables go into it. I won't lie, I was a big supporter of PN9 as, personally, I felt (and still feel, had he stayed at the U) he gave us our best chance to win B1G Ten games. Leidner, it can be argued, hasn't really won us a B1G Ten game yet being the key contributor at the QB postition. Now, he has A LOT of time left to make up for that with 3 remaining years of eligibilty left, so I am ceratinly hoping he does.

 

[John Galt]

Nowhere close to being as moronic as your statement that Mitch is the worst starting QB in Gopher history. His stats were better throwing and passing as a Freshman than Nelsons. His arm is better than Nelson's. As I, and others, have written...both are not solid qb's at this point. Go ahead though and wring your hands at the prospect at losing a career 50% guy-a guy who didn't want to have to actually compete for the starting job.

Quit misquoting me. I said he was the worst starting QB for the Gophers in the last 30 years. Nelson's freshman year was his first year. Leidner's freshman year was his second, so your comparison is garbage. Stats are also largely irrelevant, since Nelson's include playing whole games against Iowa, Michigan St., and Wisky. Half of Mitch's stats are against Western Michigan and SJSU.

Aloha...

 

[Killjoy]

70 pages of the same argument. Some folks think Nelson was better and some think Liedner was better. Can we all just agree that neither played all that well consistently and that neither one was much better or worse than the other? Very tiring thread.

+1 Everybody seems to have their opinion on this subject but people just keep on saying the same thing over and over again, as if that is going to win the argument.

Nothing new is being said so maybe it is time to move on. Yea, I know I don't have to click on this thread. But you never know, there could be a miracle and something new could be posted. Nah, that isn't going to happen.

 

[dpodoll68]

Half of Mitch's stats are against Western Michigan and SJSU.

You're telling him to quit misquoting you? Stop posting inaccurate "facts", which btw I've already corrected you on.

 

[Maximus]

The fact that you had to go back 25 years to Fleetwood is helping my point.

Tony Mortenson (9-24, 130 yards, 37.5%, TD, INT in 2005)
Andy Persby (60-143, 661 yards, 42.0%, 3 TDs, 5 INTs in 1998)

 

[John Galt]

You're telling him to quit misquoting you? Stop posting inaccurate "facts", which btw I've already corrected you on.

You haven't corrected me on anything, I told you I was referring to rushing yards. And even if "65%" of his passes were against Michigan and Syracuse, it's proving my point. Mitch basically played significant time in 4 games: Western Michigan, SJSU, Michigan, and Syracuse. Not exactly the same level of competition as Michigan St., Iowa, and Wisky this year.

 

[tikited]

Quit misquoting me. I said he was the worst starting QB for the Gophers in the last 30 years. Nelson's freshman year was his first year. Leidner's freshman year was his second, so your comparison is garbage. Stats are also largely irrelevant, since Nelson's include playing whole games against Iowa, Michigan St., and Wisky. Half of Mitch's stats are against Western Michigan and SJSU.

Aloha...

It is pretty obvious that you and I will not be agreeing on many things dealing with Gopher QB's or other things. My last word will be this: I lost faith in Nelson during the Mich. St. game his Freshman year. I just couldn't get past his motion, velocity, etc.. I knew then that I wasn't giving him enough of a chance so I kept quiet. I didn't see those concerns lesson over the last season. Therefore I am not at all going to miss him. I have other concerns about Mitch, but I feel those can be corrected more easily. Therefore I think Mitch will be the better QB. I have been a semi-secret Streveler guy (even though I have little evidence to be so) and am curious to see if he can handle the job...if needed.

going Galt....

 

[tikited]

Tony Mortenson (9-24, 130 yards, 37.5%, TD, INT in 2005)
Andy Persby (60-143, 661 yards, 42.0%, 3 TDs, 5 INTs in 1998)

Persby... I was trying really hard not to cheat and look up past Gopher QB names, but he is the guy I was thinking of. His stats are actually better than I remembered. I was scared every time he attempted a pass.

 

[John Galt]

Tony Mortenson (9-24, 130 yards, 37.5%, TD, INT in 2005)
Andy Persby (60-143, 661 yards, 42.0%, 3 TDs, 5 INTs in 1998)

Again, who were their stats against?

Someone can argue that Mitch's stats against Michigan were good and his passer rating was whatever. But we only scored 13 points against a mediocre Michigan team and lost by 30.

 

[dpodoll68]

I told you I was referring to rushing yards.

Then say that. You said "stats". Mean what you say, say what you mean. Not complicated or difficult.

 

[John Galt]

Then say that. You said "stats". Mean what you say, say what you mean. Not complicated or difficult.

For future reference: if someone says that half of a player's statistics were from two games, 99% of the time they mean that approximately half of their rushing yards, passing yards, passing attempts, sacks, etc. were from 2 games. They usually haven't gone back and calculated the exact percentage and determined that 58% of passing yards were in 2 games, and 42% were in the other two.

This is intuitivie to most everyone, so I thought I'd explain it clearly for you.

 

[Maximus]

Again, who were their stats against?

Someone can argue that Mitch's stats against Michigan were good and his passer rating was whatever. But we only scored 13 points against a mediocre Michigan team and lost by 30.

The majority of Mortensons playing time was in his start vs Wisconsin (#92 in total defense). Went 7 for 17, 99 yards, TD, INT. He went 2 for 3 against Colorado State. 0 for 4 against Florida Atlantic.

I also forgot Ryan Keller in 1998. He had 14 pass attempts in 98, completed 3 of them.

 

[dpodoll68]

if someone says that half of a player's statistics were from two games, 99% of the time they mean that approximately half of their rushing yards, passing yards, passing attempts, sacks, etc. were from 2 games.

Great. Then why do you keep lying and saying that half of his statistics were from two games?

 

[John Galt]

Great. Then why do you keep lying and saying that half of his statistics were from two games?

Because he primarily played in 4 games. 2/4=50%=half

 

[dpodoll68]

Because he primarily played in 4 games. 2/4=50%=half

But he played in 10, and put up stats in all of them. 2/10=20%=not half

 

[John Galt]

But he played in 10, and put up stats in all of them. 2/10=20%=not half

"primarily" = playing a significant portion of the game.

Getting 1-2 series in garbarge time isn't what I'm evaluating. Knock yourself out if you want to equate 1 series against NMSU as being the same as a complete game.

 

[dpodoll68]

Knock yourself out if you want to equate 1 series against NMSU as being the same as a complete game.

Knock yourself out if you want to keep lying and saying that half of his statistics were from two games, when that is easily and demonstrably false.

 

[GoldenUMNGopher]

Knock yourself out if you want to keep lying and saying that half of his statistics were from two games, when that is easily and demonstrably false.

Dont waste your time John Galt....dp has to get the last word in and is always right(in his own world)

 

[imthewalrus]

Nowhere close to being as moronic as your statement that Mitch is the worst starting QB in Gopher history. His stats were better throwing and passing as a Freshman than Nelsons. His arm is better than Nelson's. As I, and others, have written...both are not solid qb's at this point. Go ahead though and wring your hands at the prospect at losing a career 50% guy-a guy who didn't want to have to actually compete for the starting job.

The bottom line here boys and girls is that the heat goes on the head of the coach and his staff to produce a quarterback who can produce from three to five Conference wins in 2014 and to NOT revert to the two win or less type of Conference record that my Golden Gophers were subjected to during that failed brewball experiment and during the first couple years of Coach Kill's tenure. Now, hopefully the offensive line, the running game and development of the receiving corps will help all of the Gopher Quarterbacks look better in 2014 than in the past. Once again, it ALL falls on the broad backs of the Coach and his staff. They have called all the shots and they have the situation that they have worked so hard to put my Golden Gopher Football Team in all set and in place for the 2014 season. Coach Kill says he is happy with the progress.

So, boys and girls: nothing happens by chance. We are witnessing the master plan being laid in place by Coach Kill and his staff.

Our ONLY task will be to sit back and witness the outcome of the Conference games in 2014. The only question with the ooc portion of the schedule will be the game with TCU @ TCU. IF my Gophers and their coaches and their quarterbacks can team with the other players and win 3 or more conference games in 2014, all will be well with the world and the Coach will be playing for his first Golden Gopher Bowl Game win!

If the quarterback situation comes back to bite our good coach, so be it. The Coach and his staff have constructed EVERYTHING about this program exactly the way they have wished to construct it. Everything in place has been put in place by our Coach and his staff. They have all the power. They have called all the shots.

Good luck to my Golden Gophers and the Coach and his staff and all the Gopher Quarterbacks in the 2014 season. The KEY game is the wisky game. My Golden Gophers MUST beat wisky in 2014. Not too much else matters. The madness of this wisky thing MUST end in 2014...no matter WHO is quarterbacking my Golden Gopher Football Team.

 

[upnorthkid]

I'm about ready to move on, but it's still in discussion because of the moronic comments from some on here saying that Nelson is "easily replaceable." Given Nelson's lack of production in many key games, I wish I could say that he is "easily replaceable." But when I look at the current roster, he obviously isn't. 8 weeks ago, the staff still thought he gave us the best chance to win. Last I checked, here are the current options:

1. Leidner, who couldn't surpass Nelson despite some horrific games by Phil.
2. Streveler, who broke his hand and may not be able to play QB ever again. Zero career games, and little recruiting hype.
3. McKinzy, who has been on campus for about a month.
4. A group of PWOs who have been with the team for less than a year.

In light of those options, it would be very beneficial to have Nelson back for his junior year.

look. nobody knows who would have been the better QB for us this year. There is no way to prove this. We can argue the stats, games played, leadership, and whatever other crap you want to throw out there. Would it be nice to have Nelson here? Yeah it sure would. But he's not. This is not an argument anymore. He's not with the team and I wish him the best but there are those that believe in Nelson and those that believe in Leidner and you will not convince either one to flip sides. just let it go.

 

[upnorthkid]

Don't click on the thread. You're welcome.

I click on it to see if, you know, it has some information on Nelson's leaving, how it's going at Rutgers, etc. You know, what the thread title says. But thanks for all your help

 

[cncmin]

View attachment 2522

Body of work body of work, body of work. If you are going to cherry pick that 4 game series as demonstrative of Nelson's body of work then we can legitimately cherry pick Leidner's play vs SJSU, several drives in the Mich game, the bowl game...etc.

Nelson's putrid far outweighed the good. That's why his stats stink and Leidner's were better. We can play this cherry picking game all day long. Leidner needs to learn ball protection amongst a lot of other things but he has potential.

If you continue to say Nelson was a significantly better passer, which is false in every objective category and IMHO subjectively you have lost your credibility. Nelson was the worst QB in the Big Ten and it wasn't even that close. He is replaceable.

Unintentionally self-contradictory post thus far in 2014 on GH? You do realize that, if you're going to argue that Leidner was a better runner than Nelson, AND he was a better passer, then why in the hell was Nelson starting over him?? Nelson may not have had significantly better stats over the course of 2013, yet the offense was better to some degree when he played, and thus he was the starter, even by the final game of the season.

Be a hypocrite or be a prick. But don't be both.

 

[GreasyGopher]

Does it suck that Nelson transferred? Yes.

Does it hurt depth at QB? Yes.

Does it set the program's progress back numerous years? No.

Having an upperclassman starting at QB would have been nice. However, at this point, Nelson is nothing more than a below-average to average Big Ten QB. Below-Average to average QBs are replaceable.

Lets move on

 

[4four4]

So what does all this have to do with Nelson transferring to Rutgers? lol